Please rag on religion here, not in FrGamble

Edited to delete.

Yo, Fr Gamble:

Great post FrGamble. I love how people like Mr V get exposed in these type of threads. Their hostility makes their position look like the backwards/ignorant one. I agree with ayecarumba. I see tithes/offerings like forgiveness. The person you're forgiving might not care if you forgive them or not; it's more for self therapy. God doesn't need our tithes and offerings; it is a lesson in greed.

Quote: FrGamble

Hey everybody I was wondering if we could have a weekly discussion on a short passage from the Bible... No matter what your beliefs may be concerning God, let's not attack religion, faith, or the lack of either in our posts. Stay focused again on the passage and try to suspend your disbelief if you need to in order to comment on what you think the words mean to you.

You're posting a bible passage and looking for discussion from a bunch of mathematically and scientifically honed minds plus a host of gambling degenerates, most of whom post under an alias. No offense but good luck. (see exhibit "A" above, courtesy of MrV)

Other than that, I like Ayecarumba's response.

Quote: Scotty71

I got a funny note today from my mom:

Your Mom is pretty awesome. I think it is safe to say, that your mom is not like my mom. I got a note the other day from my mom reminding me to come over for my sister's birthday. That was all.

Let them eat cake!

Quote: ikilledjerrylogan

Great post FrGamble. I love how people like Mr V get exposed in these type of threads. Their hostility makes their position look like the backwards/ignorant one.

Disbelief is hostility?

Given the choice between Superstition and Reality ... I'll take door #2 every time.

pastorflash

Deleted.

George Carlin
On Religion

ObjectiveThought.com
12-23-5



I hate to step into your post, but please don't copy and paste entire articles onto this site. It violates copyright laws. Please just provide a link. The URL above did not work. -- Wiz

Isn't any religious belief better than none?

Quote: rxwine

Isn't any religious belief better than none?

If you worship Satan, is that better than no religious belief?

So far, yes.

Quote: rxwine

Isn't any religious belief better than none?

No.

The belief in a mystical, supreme being who controls us only serves to buffer reality.

And that ain't good.

Accept the fact that we live, we die, and nothing really matters in the big scheme of things.

To quote Camus: "I laid my heart open to the benign indifference of the universe."

Show me someone that's a devout atheist and I'll show you someone that's likely autistic.

Quote: buzzpaff

George Carlin
On Religion

ObjectiveThought.com
12-23-5



I hate to step into your post, but please don't copy and paste entire articles onto this site. It violates copyright laws. Please just provide a link. The URL above did not work. -- Wiz

Sorry about that. Daughter is gonna show me how to do just that this weekend. As Dan would say RULES IS RULES.

P.S. just found a black license plate under the computer desk LOL Will mail tomorrow.

Quote: buzzpaff

George Carlin
On Religion

ObjectiveThought.com
12-23-5



I hate to step into your post, but please don't copy and paste entire articles onto this site. It violates copyright laws. Please just provide a link. The URL above did not work. -- Wiz

You Tube video. Much better hearing it than reading it.

Quote: Keyser

Show me someone that's a devout atheist and I'll show you someone that's likely autistic.

I am an atheist, but am not "devout" about it.

Really, I could care less what YOU think on the subject; just leave me the hell alone.

You want to proselytize, go practice on your dog.

Do you seriously believe that all of THESE folks were "likely autistic?"

famousatheists

Quote: MrV

Really, I could care less what YOU think on the subject

If you COULD care less then why don't you?

Quote: ikilledjerrylogan

If you COULD care less then why don't you?

When he THINKS, I have no clue what he believes, which is perfect.

It is when he attempts to promulgate his thoughts via words on a computer screen that the game is afoot: he switches from "thinking" to "arguing" or "preaching."

I think you meant you could not care less. The funny part is you posted a list where bjork and david duchovny are in the top ten. THAT JUST HAPPENED!

Are they autistic?

That's the point.

Damned bible thumpers are starting to piss me off.

Im sure all the other atheists are thanking you for posting such a fabulous list. Mao and Stalin in the top 50. Name calling? come on you can do better than that.

I am not bothered by a test that implies I may be autistic. I can count like Rain Man, so may be, but I can't play the piano for beans (although I started to get good before snapping my hand in twain, so may be again). Nor am I bothered by being lumped in a list with Chairman Mao. Pretty sure he was human and a man, too, so I guess we can all be connected to him by list.

I am 100% athiest, and I'm happy. Got problems just like everyone else, but my life is fulfilling. MrV, just because someone says it's so does not make it so. And that works both ways. I used to get all bent out of shape about this stuff too, until I realized it doesn't matter. FrG preaching affects us only as much as we allow it. Keyser insinuating we may be autistic is the same. Try not to get too bent out of shape about stuff on the internet, and I suggest that only for your own sake, from someone who spent too much time being angry at what is essentially nothing.

If the Gov starts doing stuff "in the name of God", THEN we break out the pitchforks and torches. Otherwise, come here for the gambling, stay for the car talk, and ignore opinions you don't agree with. Only a few more decades til we are worm food, might as well not waste what little time we have on something we already made our minds up about, right? ;)

Quote: Face

I am not bothered by a test that implies I may be autistic. I can count like Rain Man, so may be, but I can't play the piano for beans (although I started to get good before snapping my hand in twain, so may be again). Nor am I bothered by being lumped in a list with Chairman Mao. Pretty sure he was human and a man, too, so I guess we can all be connected to him by list.

I am 100% athiest, and I'm happy. Got problems just like everyone else, but my life is fulfilling. MrV, just because someone says it's so does not make it so. And that works both ways. I used to get all bent out of shape about this stuff too, until I realized it doesn't matter. FrG preaching affects us only as much as we allow it. Keyser insinuating we may be autistic is the same. Try not to get too bent out of shape about stuff on the internet, and I suggest that only for your own sake, from someone who spent too much time being angry at what is essentially nothing.

If the Gov starts doing stuff "in the name of God", THEN we break out the pitchforks and torches. Otherwise, come here for the gambling, stay for the car talk, and ignore opinions you don't agree with. Only a few more decades til we are worm food, might as well not waste what little time we have on something we already made our minds up about, right? ;)

Aw come on face, he was the best player on our team :P
As always, love the post. You have a way of putting everything in perspective.

I'm not a Bible thumper. I likely find parts of the Bible to be as absurd as you do.

I am not evangelical, I feel that many of them give all religion a bad name. They are on the verge of being a cult.

I believe in evolution.

And I believe in god.

Over the years, I have simply noticed that an unusually high number of people that call themselves atheist are also autistic. Autistic people in general have a hard time comprehending and imaging the abstract idea of a god. Also, please note I'm not saying that agnostics are autistic.
In general, people that were heavily picked on by others while in school for various reasons, also tend to be devout atheists.
By the nature of the disease, autistic people are also heavily teased and taunted by others during adolescence as well.
This is where I see a large part of the unusual rebelliousness and antisocial behavior having been reinforced. As an adult, they tend to partly resent there fellow man and any and all sense of authority. Consequently they feel they will show everyone by making their desperate cries for attention by rebelling against the ultimate authority - God.

Mr. V.,

I'm sorry that you were short, ugly, or picked on for other reasons as a kid, but I'm not here to sell you religion. You're starting to sound like you hate the world almost as much as Spike/Evenbob.

Quote: rxwine

Isn't any religious belief better than none?

No.

Quote: Keyser

Over the years, I have simply noticed that an unusually high number of people that call themselves atheist are also autistic. Autistic people in general have a hard time comprehending and imaging the abstract idea of a god.

"Autism is defined in the DSM-IV-TR as exhibiting at least six symptoms total, including at least two symptoms of qualitative impairment in social interaction, at least one symptom of qualitative impairment in communication, and at least one symptom of restricted and repetitive behavior."

Can you tell us how many of the people on this list
fit the description of clinical autism? Could the right
answer be zero?

Famous Atheists

Sorry, but I can not. I simply don't know these people personally. However if they were to take the AQ test, then you'd like find that some of them were indeed autistic. Again, I'm not saying that someone that's agnostic is likely autistic. Really what I'm trying to say is that there is a higher rate of autism among devout atheists than there is among non atheists.

Angelina Jolie (#56) is definitely autistic. I tested her myself.

Quote: Wizard

No.

Hah.

Actually, I do think the list of things one could believe in is endless once you abandon reason and evidence. So, why stop at a god?

Well, if you just abandon evidence, really. Reasoning can be really intricate and precise, yet wrong if it's based on bad information.

Quote: Keyser

Really what I'm trying to say is that there is a higher rate of autism among devout atheists than there is among non atheists.

I think you're wrong. The vast majority of people
with genius IQ's are atheists. The reason is, they
don't need the crutch that religion provides.

Quote: rxwine

Isn't any religious belief better than none?

An honest answer to that question requires defining "better", which is most likely to be done with reference to religion, making the answer circular and thus invalid.

What do *you* mean by better?

55. Jamie Hyneman

I have listened to this guy enough on myth busters and have watched his mannerisms enough to know that this guy is absolutely beyond the shadow of a doubt austistic. Aspergers all the way. The mono tone voice, very little expression, odd gait and movements.

Quote: Keyser

Autistic people in general have a hard time comprehending and imaging the abstract idea of a god.

If so, on the other end of the spectrum we have hundreds of conflicting religious beliefs by those all over the world who can comprehend an abstract such as a god. Is having a bunch of conflicting beliefs a better position to be in?

No.

Quote: Keyser

I have listened to this guy enough on myth busters and have watched his mannerisms enough to know that this guy is absolutely beyond the shadow of a doubt austistic.

Why don't you just admit you have no idea what
autism is and we'll all just forget about it.

Regardless of the your IQ, you have to be able to imagine the possibility of God. Being conflicted, in doubt at times, is human. Someone that's autistic has a very difficult time even comprehending the abstract idea of a god since they can't directly see it.

By the way, I have close friends from college, and business associates that have varing degrees of Aspergers as well as a nephew with it. In college you'll find that autistic people tend to gravitate towards math and science.

No, this is what I mean, Keyser This is where it ends up. It's where it will continue to end up.

---> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religions_and_spiritual_traditions

Regarding the word "better". Unlike others, I know exactly what you mean. Unfortunately there's a down side to some things. Fanatics, as I've said, can give religion a bad name. I believe that being agnostic or being religious is "better" than being an atheist.

Quote: Keyser

Regardless of the your IQ, you have to be able to imagine the possibility of God.

So high IQ people are too stupid to do that?
Are you serious?

Quote: Evenbob

So high IQ people are too stupid to do that?
Are you serious?

I'm not seeing the connection that you're attempting to make. However Bob, don't worry. There are plenty of stupid atheists as well.

Quote: Keyser

I believe that being agnostic or being religious is "better" than being atheist.

Why? Religious people aren't any happier, wealthier, and they
don't live any longer. They do get to judge people though. I
guess thats great, if thats what rocks your boat.

Perhaps I'm not being clear. if people all over the world arrive at variations of belief, some in conflict of others, that's of no more use than dropping a ball from the Tower of Pisa and getting a different result each time.

It's not a useful or superior position at all.

Well Bob, don't take this the wrong way, but you come across has one miserable and bitter guy.

In all honesty, my friends that are religious or just agnostic appear to be more alive, happier, and human than my friends that are not. And keep in mind, that I likely know more autistic people than you - given my background.

Quote: Keyser

Well Bob, don't take this the wrong way, but you come across has one miserable and bitter guy.

Perfect. Thats exactly how I want to be perceived. Mission accomplished.
And you think I'm joking..

Quote: Keyser

And keep in mind, that I likely know more autistic people than you

Cool... (?)

Quote: Keyser

55. Jamie Hyneman

I have listened to this guy enough on myth busters and have watched his mannerisms enough to know that this guy is absolutely beyond the shadow of a doubt austistic. Aspergers all the way. The mono tone voice, very little expression, odd gait and movements.

I wasn't aware that Keyser was a clinical psychiatrist, able to diagnose complex condition based on watching them on a TV show.

Your assessment is laughable, regardless of how much exposure you have to people with Autidm spectrum disorders.

Quote: thecesspit

I wasn't aware that Keyser was a clinical psychiatrist, able to diagnose complex condition based on watching them on a TV show.

Your assessment is laughable, regardless of how much exposure you have to people with Autidm spectrum disorders.

And it's spot on :) Let me do a quick search on Google to see if we can dig up some additional info on the guy.
(By they way, I'm sure you meant to say "Autism spectrum disorders".(Not "Autidm") )

Update: Evidently other people see what I see as well.

Check out http://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100515205046AAtqA7V


"Is Jamie Hyneman of 'Mythbusters' autistic?
Some folks and I have been debating this, and I'm curious whether anyone knows of a source which can clear this up one way or the other. Given his behaviour on the show and what's been revealed through behind-the-scenes footage -- such has: http://www.collegehumor.com/video:190874… -- it seems that he certainly has a lot of the symptoms of being somewhere on the autism spectrum.

According to Wikipedia, for example, these are some characteristics of Asperger's Syndrome, one of the conditions on the autism spectrum:

"The lack of demonstrated empathy is possibly the most dysfunctional aspect of Asperger syndrome. Individuals with AS experience difficulties in basic elements of social interaction, which may include a failure to develop friendships or to seek shared enjoyments or achievements with others (for example, showing others objects of interest), a lack of social or emotional reciprocity, and impaired nonverbal behaviors in areas such as eye contact, facial expression, posture, and gesture.

Unlike those with autism, people with AS are not usually withdrawn around others; they approach others, even if awkwardly. For example, a person with AS may engage in a one-sided, long-winded speech about a favorite topic, while misunderstanding or not recognizing the listener's feelings or reactions, such as a need for privacy or haste to leave. This social awkwardness has been called "active but odd". This failure to react appropriately to social interaction may appear as disregard for other people's feelings, and may come across as insensitive.

The cognitive ability of children with AS often allows them to articulate social norms in a laboratory context, where they may be able to show a theoretical understanding of other people's emotions; however, they typically have difficulty acting on this knowledge in fluid, real-life situations. People with AS may analyze and distill their observation of social interaction into rigid behavioral guidelines, and apply these rules in awkward ways, such as forced eye contact, resulting in a demeanor that appears rigid or socially naive."

A lot of this seems to describe Jamie Hyneman pretty well. I'm not so much interested in people's personal opinions (my acquaintances and I have talked this to death from every angle) but whether anyone has any references which can definitively state whether or not Jamie Hyneman is autistic".- End of quote from website.

"People with 'mild' forms of autism are more likely to be atheists, according to a controversial new study - and more likely to shun organised religion in general."

source: study

Fine, I can accept that possibility.

But I cannot and will not accept or even deign to take seriously Keyser's opening troll: "Show me someone that's a devout atheist and I'll show you someone that's likely autistic."

The claim that atheists such as myself are "likely autisitc" does not compute.

As for:

"Mr. V.,

I'm sorry that you were short, ugly, or picked on for other reasons as a kid, but I'm not here to sell you religion. You're starting to sound like you hate the world almost as much as Spike/Evenbob."

I'm not short: I'm tall.

I am not ugly.

I was never picked on; I picked on others (occasionally; usually I studied, worked, and hung around with my girlfriend).

History major ... but I did well on my SATs in both math and verbal.

*poof* go your preconceived notions.

Quote: Keyser

I'm not so much interested in people's personal opinions (my acquaintances and I have talked this to death from every angle)

No doubt its confusing, when you consider none
of you are qualified to diagnose anything.

Quote: Keyser

but whether anyone has any references which can definitively state whether or not Jamie Hyneman is autistic

His buddy Adam is on the list too, does this confuse you?
Repetitive behavior is a big part of autism, as is compulsive
behavior. I don't see any of that in Jamie. You base your
whole voodoo diagnosis on his business-like behavior and
because he's not a a goofball like Adam. He's just a serious
guy, there's nothing wrong with him.

Well Mr. V.,

It appears that my preconceived notions were spot on with regards to the study that you listed above. I was NOT aware of that study until you posted.

Question, when you smile does the left side of your smile tend to rise higher than the right side of your smile? In other words is it just a little lopsided? (It's just a little something I'm working involving some other preconceived notions.)

Quote: Evenbob

Quote: Keyser
I'm not so much interested in people's personal opinions (my acquaintances and I have talked this to death from every angle)


No doubt its confusing, when you consider none
of you are qualified to diagnose anything.


Quote: Keyser
but whether anyone has any references which can definitively state whether or not Jamie Hyneman is autistic

Evenbob,

You are quoting the website's quotes, not me.