Commerce Casino

Has anyone ever been in the huge poker clubs in Los Angeles like Commerce Casino? I am told that California state law permits games of skill like poker.

I wonder how airtight the law is. Operators are always manipulating the law so that slot machines are technically bingo games. Will the California law permit variations of blackjack and baccarat that are manipulated enough so that they become "games of skill". I wonder if you could add a side bet that is skill based so that the core game doesn't change very much.

I am intrigued by the possibility that someone could open a high limit baccarat variation game in LA or San Francisco. You already have large Asian populations, and both cities have steady streams of jets arriving non-stop from Asia.

the loophole is that the pit games are not banked by the house. everyone can bank in all games. there is a corp bank that has a "player" sit there 24/7 acting as banker if needed. the house makes money from a $1 collection per hand.

It might work.

Nevada is making an average of roughly $100 million per month on the 235 baccarat games and the 127 mini or midi baccarat games. In the last year it has been the only game that has been growing in Nevada.

Even a landmark hotel like the 395 room 1928 Beverly Wilshire Hotel which was the setting for the movie Pretty Woman could be the setting for a 50 table baccarat casino. I think that California could equal the revenue in Las Vegas on baccarat with a few elite settings. I base this on the number of Asians living in or visiting major California cities. Taxes on $100 million/month in revenue would make a small chink in the California tax shortfall.

I can't imagine who would object.

Another option would be to convert one of those hotels on Century BLVD near LAX. LAX does roughly 17 million international passengers a year (2nd in the country behind JFK). Hilton has a 1200 room hotel on Century Blvd (a little smaller than the 3000 room hotel in Las Vegas). It could accomodate baccarat players.

awesome pun

Quote: pacomartin

I can't imagine who would object.

Every existing Card Room in the state would object, claiming a saturation of the market. Availability of licenses is determined locally, which is why the relatively conservative city of Los Angeles does not have any leagal card rooms. All the nearby locations, like Commerce Casino, The Bicycle Club, Hollywood Park Casino (about 10 minutes or less from LAX), Hustler, Normandie, Hawaiian Gardens, etc. are in nearby cities (kind of like a reverse Clark County / Boulder City arrangement) whose City Council's typically responded to a need for revenue.

All the "card rooms" in the Los Angeles area offer mini - baccarat, blackjack, and even pai gow poker and pai gow tiles, just like the Native American casinos. However, they are specifically restricted from offering slot machines (machines are not "card based", and are exclusive to the Native American joints via an compact with the Governor).


Known as "California Games", to differentiate them from the Vegas style, player vs. the house set up. Rule modifications (mainly the player banking option mentioned in a previous post) are required to meet the state's "card based game" requirement. Here is a list of the "California" offerings from the Commerce website:

• No Bust BlackJack
• 21st Century Baccarat
• Super Pan 9 (also called “Pan 9” or “Super 9”)
• 13 Card Poker (also called Chinese Poker)
• Pai Gow Poker (also called Double-Hand Poker)
• Joker’s Wild Pai Gow Poker
• Pai Gow Tiles
• 3 Card Poker
• EZ Baccarat
• Caribbean Stud

Games come and go with a fairly high frequency. 6:5 is ubiquitous. There were several attempts at "Craps" variants, but no one can seem to come up with successful game that uses actual dice, but relies on "card like" play to determine the outcome.

I can only speak for The Commerce Casino but I've seen some very high stakes games there. Its not unusual for one of the Baccarat tables to have 7-10 thousand in action, particularly in the evenings.

On another note: Commerce is (I believe) unique in that in their Pai Gow games the joker plays as a wild card. Its for this reason that you want to bank as often as possible since if the joker falls in the bank it automatically creates at least a pair.

Is it still the case that many of the dealers are actors employed by the banking syndicate?

I think years ago the feds proved that the Bicycle Casino was secretly owned by the people who banked the games.

The Bike Casino banks the Commerce games, the Commerce banks the Bike games. Im not sure who banks Hollywood Park's games (the casino near LAX) but I am sure it's one of the other casinos.

No banking of live poker, of course, it's player against player with the casinos collecting a rake or fee for use of the table, and for jackpots.

The casino licenses are controlled by the state.

There has been legislation proposed to freeze the number of "card casinos" in exchange for a few of the major card casinos to be allowed to offer Vegas gaming including slots and video poker and non banked gaming. But it failed whe presented to voters.

Bicycle Casino used to be owned by Uncle Sam when the casino was seized after a money laundering and tax conviction. Then it was sold to a group of private investors.

Quote: AlanMendelson

The Bike Casino banks the Commerce games, the Commerce banks the Bike games. Im not sure who banks Hollywood Park's games (the casino near LAX) but I am sure it's one of the other casinos.

Hustler, maybe? Are those arrangements common? Does the same thing happen at the smaller bay-area clubs?

how do you know the bike banks commerce games and vice versa? Is that speculation or you have some info showing that? Interesting nonetheless..