Cherokee craps game garbage now
October 20th, 2013 at 12:11:26 PM
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I just returned from a weekend at Harrah's Cherokee, and they have destroyed their GOOD craps game.
When I was there in February, it was:
10x odds
Vig on win for the Buy 4, 5, 9 , 10.
Vig on Win for any LAY bet.
Well, that is now history. The new rules are:
10x odds
Vig up front on all BUY and LAY bets.
2x on 2 and 12 Field
Fire Bet is $1-$5, Pay table is 4= 125x , 5=250x , 6=1000x
And you have to pay for any alcoholic drink.
Doesn't seem to be slowing down their action any though. Saturday night they had all 10 tables going.
3 were $25 tables
4 were $15 tables
3 were $10 tables
The $10 tables were full, there were a few spots open on $15 tables, and there were 4 or 5 players at each $25 table.
I knew it was too good to last at a Harrah's run property. Although, as I hear it, it may not be fair to blame Harrah's. It seems the Cherokee Tribal Commission may be the ones that are making the decisions on the rules of the games. And there is a lot of discussion on how knowledgeable they are. :-(
Oh well, looks like Biloxi will be getting my action from now on.
When I was there in February, it was:
10x odds
Vig on win for the Buy 4, 5, 9 , 10.
Vig on Win for any LAY bet.
Well, that is now history. The new rules are:
10x odds
Vig up front on all BUY and LAY bets.
2x on 2 and 12 Field
Fire Bet is $1-$5, Pay table is 4= 125x , 5=250x , 6=1000x
And you have to pay for any alcoholic drink.
Doesn't seem to be slowing down their action any though. Saturday night they had all 10 tables going.
3 were $25 tables
4 were $15 tables
3 were $10 tables
The $10 tables were full, there were a few spots open on $15 tables, and there were 4 or 5 players at each $25 table.
I knew it was too good to last at a Harrah's run property. Although, as I hear it, it may not be fair to blame Harrah's. It seems the Cherokee Tribal Commission may be the ones that are making the decisions on the rules of the games. And there is a lot of discussion on how knowledgeable they are. :-(
Oh well, looks like Biloxi will be getting my action from now on.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
October 20th, 2013 at 12:32:17 PM
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" And there is a lot of discussion on how knowledgeable they are "
Based on the actions the tables are getting, the Cherokee Tribe is pretty smart.
Based on the actions the tables are getting, the Cherokee Tribe is pretty smart.
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
October 20th, 2013 at 12:45:23 PM
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Well, it falls more under 'the only game in town'.
They don't have any competition nearby, so they can pretty much do most anything they want at this point.
But if they do get some competition close by, some of these decisions will bite them.
I understand they don't have to be the best rules on the East Coast, but they went from one of the best, to one of the worst. The 10x odds is still pretty good, but the rest of the rules makes the game no better than any other game on the right coast.
They don't have any competition nearby, so they can pretty much do most anything they want at this point.
But if they do get some competition close by, some of these decisions will bite them.
I understand they don't have to be the best rules on the East Coast, but they went from one of the best, to one of the worst. The 10x odds is still pretty good, but the rest of the rules makes the game no better than any other game on the right coast.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
October 20th, 2013 at 2:54:00 PM
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It sounds as if the only change is in when they collect the vig -- is that correct? My wife and I will be there Tuesday and Wednesday for her birthday. Hopefully, midweek gives me a better shot at a low-limit table. I never have made lay bets and only very rarely buy bets, so I don't think the game will have changed much for me.
I know the NC legislature didn't look kindly on that SC tribe that recently wanted to build an off-reservation casino on the NC side of the line, but I have delusions that such discussions will eventually lead to one or two non-tribal casinos in the state. After all, they would only grant the Cherokees exclusivity in the low-population territory west of I-26.
I know the NC legislature didn't look kindly on that SC tribe that recently wanted to build an off-reservation casino on the NC side of the line, but I have delusions that such discussions will eventually lead to one or two non-tribal casinos in the state. After all, they would only grant the Cherokees exclusivity in the low-population territory west of I-26.
October 20th, 2013 at 3:26:35 PM
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I'm sorry you lost such a good game (esp for how you play). Still though, that 10x odds is very nice, especially for an "only game in town" kind of situation.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
October 21st, 2013 at 8:53:32 AM
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Say it ain't so, RaleighCraps...
It sounds like the only rule that has changed is the vigs, though. Am I correct? Or did they change the field bet?
Did you happen to see if MS Stud was really up and running? If so, minimums?
It sounds like the only rule that has changed is the vigs, though. Am I correct? Or did they change the field bet?
Did you happen to see if MS Stud was really up and running? If so, minimums?
October 21st, 2013 at 12:15:23 PM
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HC Cleveland does vig up front for all buys, HC Cincinnati does vig on win for 45910 and I think even does automatic buys for >$20 bets on 59. You'd think they would standardize that somewhat.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
October 22nd, 2013 at 1:18:22 PM
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Quote: JimmerDid you happen to see if MS Stud was really up and running? If so, minimums?
I am at Cherokee right now and remembered this question. I checked, and they have three tables in play -- near each other but not adjacent. On a Tuesday afternoon, the table I checked was $10 minimum. Don't know how it varies with table or day and time.
Edit: passed by another table, and it was $5 minimum.
October 22nd, 2013 at 1:47:50 PM
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I am headed up there for a day or two late this month- how many craps tables open and what are limits?
I havent been since they changed the vig rule on the buy bets - but thats hardly a deal breaker for me.
10 time odds are great on a hot table - I generally have good luck there.
I havent been since they changed the vig rule on the buy bets - but thats hardly a deal breaker for me.
10 time odds are great on a hot table - I generally have good luck there.
October 22nd, 2013 at 7:31:29 PM
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10 craps tables.
I was there on a Friday morning and 4 tables were in play, 2 $10 and 2 $15.
Friday night I think it was 8 tables in play, 2 $10, 4 $15 tables, and 2 $25 tables.
Saturday night all 10 tables were in play. At least 2 were $10
I was there on a Friday morning and 4 tables were in play, 2 $10 and 2 $15.
Friday night I think it was 8 tables in play, 2 $10, 4 $15 tables, and 2 $25 tables.
Saturday night all 10 tables were in play. At least 2 were $10
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
October 23rd, 2013 at 6:22:42 AM
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Great - thanks!
October 23rd, 2013 at 9:03:40 AM
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Tuesday night, there were four tables open. I saw minimums of $15, $10, and -- for the first time ever at Cherokee, I think -- a $5 table. There might have been a $25 table, but I didn't go looking for it.
October 23rd, 2013 at 9:05:22 AM
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I've seen a $5 table every time I've been to Cherokee - it's been late at night or during the week, though.
October 23rd, 2013 at 10:44:01 AM
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Many monopoly craps games short the odds. Getting 10x is a good enough deal by itself. Some reservations do 2x odds when there is nowhere else to go. Just play the lines and C/DC.
October 23rd, 2013 at 12:11:48 PM
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It is all relative.
My reference point for posting this is the following:
1.) I will never go back to AC. I have had this viewpoint since '99 and it will probably never change.
2.) I can drive 6 hours to PA to play craps at Hollywood, or 5.5 hours to Charles Town or Cherokee.
3.) I get free flights to Biloxi or Tunica, MS, or to Vegas CET properties.
Hollywood in PA is vig up front on the Buy bets AND, they combine the Buy 4 and Buy 10 bets to charge you a higher vig.
$50 Buy 4, or Buy 10 is $2, But a $50 Buy 4 and a $50 Buy 10 is charged $5. - I have not been back since I was charged this vig.
Charles Town is higher table minimums, and 2x odds if I remember right. - I have not been back, and probably will not return.
So, I am down to a 5 hour drive to Cherokee, or a 2 hour flight to Biloxi or Tunica.
When I could play the same game, both 10x, both vig on win for Buy 4,5,9,10 (the only diff was the 3x 12 on the Field at Beau Rivage), the choice came down to the travel.
Since my style of play is mainly Buy/Place bets, the change in the game is worth $30-$50 per craps session to me. That is quite a bit to give away.
My reference point for posting this is the following:
1.) I will never go back to AC. I have had this viewpoint since '99 and it will probably never change.
2.) I can drive 6 hours to PA to play craps at Hollywood, or 5.5 hours to Charles Town or Cherokee.
3.) I get free flights to Biloxi or Tunica, MS, or to Vegas CET properties.
Hollywood in PA is vig up front on the Buy bets AND, they combine the Buy 4 and Buy 10 bets to charge you a higher vig.
$50 Buy 4, or Buy 10 is $2, But a $50 Buy 4 and a $50 Buy 10 is charged $5. - I have not been back since I was charged this vig.
Charles Town is higher table minimums, and 2x odds if I remember right. - I have not been back, and probably will not return.
So, I am down to a 5 hour drive to Cherokee, or a 2 hour flight to Biloxi or Tunica.
When I could play the same game, both 10x, both vig on win for Buy 4,5,9,10 (the only diff was the 3x 12 on the Field at Beau Rivage), the choice came down to the travel.
Since my style of play is mainly Buy/Place bets, the change in the game is worth $30-$50 per craps session to me. That is quite a bit to give away.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
October 23rd, 2013 at 12:58:27 PM
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Charles Town is 2x, and they are Hollywood also so they charge $5 for a $50 buy 4 and $50 buy 10 as well.
October 23rd, 2013 at 8:15:44 PM
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Quote: RaleighCraps
Since my style of play is mainly Buy/Place bets, the change in the game is worth $30-$50 per craps session to me. That is quite a bit to give away.
That leaves out the "lucky" factor. Some casino's I simply always lose in, so I avoid them. In fact, Taj Mahal in AC is one of them. Others I simply hated the staff(and it's junket rep), Caesars in AC is one of them, so I avoid it. However, despite single odds and if I recall, $3.usd each for a $50.usd on a 4/10 buy up front, only one table, I always won money on cruises to nowhere out of St. Petersburg(Johns Pass). It was a pain in the arse to get to if you lived outside St. Pete, but I won most trips. It got to the point I declined the trips to AC and just went through the traffic and other related hassles.
Playing where you win has its merits.
October 23rd, 2013 at 8:24:02 PM
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Quote: RaleighCraps
Hollywood in PA is vig up front on the Buy bets AND, they combine the Buy 4 and Buy 10 bets to charge you a higher vig.
$50 Buy 4, or Buy 10 is $2, But a $50 Buy 4 and a $50 Buy 10 is charged $5. - I have not been back since I was charged this vig.
The more I think about this(thinking is dangerous), the more I think they do it to piss off the good players, the one's who know the score and odds. They are twisting the flow of the gamblers mind away from winning and making his/her point to how much the vig is etc.. There's an old story about "positive molecules" some place in the back of my mind. If I remember it I'll post it. I'm reminded of a trip to Puerto Plata in the Dominican Republic. No matter what the host and casino manager said, we were going to have a good time playing craps at night, golf during the day. These two wanted the focus to be on casino action, we were more interested in golf and women. Yap, we both won and laughed about it. They would not get into our heads.
October 23rd, 2013 at 9:04:07 PM
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You could be on the right track.
I'm not sure their intent is to piss off the people who understand, but they certainly are not upset by it. And, I have learned that there are plenty of other players who will take my spot at the rail, so they don't really care if I am there or not.
That is really too bad for them. Since Teddys dropped out of the craps scene, I have become the new craps whipping boy. Teddys, Please come back to craps. My bankroll cannot stand the beatings.
I was thinking about favorite casinos the other day. The only place I am ahead for certain is Beau Rivage. I have lost money going to Biloxi, but that is because I lose money playing craps at Hard Rock, Palace, IP, and the Grand. If I would just stick to Beau, I usually can manage a win. The problem there is they run that damn crapless game most mornings, which I refuse to play. So that is when I start donating to the other places.
I'm not sure their intent is to piss off the people who understand, but they certainly are not upset by it. And, I have learned that there are plenty of other players who will take my spot at the rail, so they don't really care if I am there or not.
That is really too bad for them. Since Teddys dropped out of the craps scene, I have become the new craps whipping boy. Teddys, Please come back to craps. My bankroll cannot stand the beatings.
I was thinking about favorite casinos the other day. The only place I am ahead for certain is Beau Rivage. I have lost money going to Biloxi, but that is because I lose money playing craps at Hard Rock, Palace, IP, and the Grand. If I would just stick to Beau, I usually can manage a win. The problem there is they run that damn crapless game most mornings, which I refuse to play. So that is when I start donating to the other places.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
October 24th, 2013 at 2:39:21 AM
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Quote: RaleighCrapsIf I would just stick to Beau, I usually can manage a win. The problem there is they run that damn crapless game most mornings, which I refuse to play. So that is when I start donating to the other places.
I've only seen photos of Beau in Biloxi. It looks like a large property. I'm surprised they only have a crapless game open in the morning. Like you, I don' t like the game at all and even play the don't pass quite often which it doesn't offer(so I'm told). How they could run junket's in from around the south and not have craps in the morning is a perplexing question. The mornings(as you well know) of the day of a junket departure attract heavy action from both winners and losers. In addition, some like to play in the morning without all the drunkards and chain smokers and a smaller crowd.
October 24th, 2013 at 5:37:30 PM
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It is odd how little craps play they get, considering how good the rules are for the player.
If I remember right, Beau has 8 tables, 1 being the crapless.
At night, they close tables, until they get down to two tables. Whichever one has the most players stays open.
One night I stayed until they closed the crapless table, and once my table was the only one left, I went to bed.
That ensured there would be a regular craps game the next morning.
But now, if there is only a crapless game, I just walk next door to the Hard Rock. Hasn't been kind to me so far though
If I remember right, Beau has 8 tables, 1 being the crapless.
At night, they close tables, until they get down to two tables. Whichever one has the most players stays open.
One night I stayed until they closed the crapless table, and once my table was the only one left, I went to bed.
That ensured there would be a regular craps game the next morning.
But now, if there is only a crapless game, I just walk next door to the Hard Rock. Hasn't been kind to me so far though
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
