hook3670
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April 12th, 2013 at 1:24:25 PM permalink
All NY Racinos have class II gaming from what I understand. Resorts offers "virtual table games" and makes the claim that they offer single zero roulette which offers guests "better winning odds" than the regular double zero roulette game. Now if they are a Class II establishment, it does not matter how many zeros are on their wheel. Has anyone gambled there and played or seen their "virtual" table games to see how they work? This is the highest grossing casino in the country, I think. It just seems their claims are a bit disengenuous.
SanchoPanza
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April 12th, 2013 at 1:45:23 PM permalink
Quote: hook3670

It just seems their claims are a bit disingenuous.

Especially in view of the fact that they are taking over the development of the Echelon site in LV.
100xOdds
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April 12th, 2013 at 2:35:00 PM permalink
Quote: hook3670

All NY Racinos have class II gaming from what I understand. Resorts offers "virtual table games" and makes the claim that they offer single zero roulette which offers guests "better winning odds" than the regular double zero roulette game. Now if they are a Class II establishment, it does not matter how many zeros are on their wheel. Has anyone gambled there and played or seen their "virtual" table games to see how they work? This is the highest grossing casino in the country, I think. It just seems their claims are a bit disengenuous.



u sure single 0 is a virtual roulette table?

i know they have a e-roulette single 0 table. electronic everything but the wheel/ball is real. i've played it.

and yes single 0 is better than double 0 if payout for both is 35:1. marketing...
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
Tanko
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April 22nd, 2013 at 10:20:23 AM permalink
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hook3670
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April 22nd, 2013 at 10:47:23 AM permalink
That sounds great. If they are only allowed Class II gaming, I wonder how they can legally offer these games. Any idea if their video poker is Class II or real VP?
tringlomane
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April 22nd, 2013 at 12:04:54 PM permalink
Quote: hook3670

That sounds great. If they are only allowed Class II gaming, I wonder how they can legally offer these games. Any idea if their video poker is Class II or real VP?



It's not dealt from a random poker deck unfortunately. I am avoiding using the "Class II" term since it is not related to Indian gaming, but VP in state-run racinos in NY behave like Class II video poker. That is the real black mark about state-run gaming in NY, imo. The 90% slot minimum return is awesome, and the electronic table games have great rules, but video poker in NY racinos is worthless. Ironically, some Indian casinos in New York offer Class III gaming, including video poker.
Tanko
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April 22nd, 2013 at 5:26:49 PM permalink
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tringlomane
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April 25th, 2013 at 7:37:16 PM permalink
Quote: Tanko

They can offer these games because no Dealers are involved. The Video Poker is VLT. However, the payout schedules are as good as anywhere else. Double Double Bonus is 98.8%, not including the Bonus Match Card. Deuces Wild that I saw was 98.5%.

Video Poker is not what it used to be. The higher percentages seem to be a thing of the past.



Sorry I didn't get back to this sooner because it's a point that needs to be crystal clear. Those payout percentages are totally worthless because the game doesn't conform to a random poker deck. It likely pays ~92% or so.
JB
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April 26th, 2013 at 3:23:14 AM permalink
Out of all the NY Lottery "casinos," Resorts World has the highest RTP over the last 12 months, of 94.54%. All of the other NY Lottery "casinos" returned between 91.03% and 92.03% for the same period.
FleaStiff
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April 26th, 2013 at 3:45:32 AM permalink
They make enough on the terrible slots to offer an okay deal on the roulette and craps electronic version which probably seats at most twelve each and provides more advertising opportunity for them than anything else. Its not to difficult to define the dealerless devices as slot machines.
100xOdds
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April 26th, 2013 at 4:40:23 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

They make enough on the terrible slots to offer an okay deal on the roulette and craps electronic version which probably seats at most twelve each and provides more advertising opportunity for them than anything else. Its not to difficult to define the dealerless devices as slot machines.



um.. no on e-craps. it seats like 100. but the same system also does Baccarat and sic bo.
plus there's 2 more machines on the upper floor (higher minimums). one seats like 100 (mainly baccarat players) and the other seats like 12.
the one on the lower floor gives out squat for points. :(

the only ok deal on roulette is single '0' and that has a higher minimum. and yes, that seats like 12. but it's usually never even half full.
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
hook3670
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April 26th, 2013 at 11:41:12 AM permalink
My understanding was theat racinos could only offer the bingo style games which people play against each other and do not have a RNG. The purpose of equating e-games to regular games are the RNG's I thought, so how are they able to offer 'real" electronic games if they are only allowed the bingo style games?
tringlomane
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April 26th, 2013 at 11:59:41 AM permalink
Quote: hook3670

My understanding was theat racinos could only offer the bingo style games which people play against each other and do not have a RNG. The purpose of equating e-games to regular games are the RNG's I thought, so how are they able to offer 'real" electronic games if they are only allowed the bingo style games?



From http://gaming.ny.gov/gaming/

Video Lottery Terminals and Electronic Table Games: Similar in appearance to classic slot machines or as simulated classic table games, these terminals are linked to a centralized system maintained by the Gaming Commission that tracks the game play and earnings for each game.
Video Lottery Terminals (VLTs) have the same appearance as slot machines. VLTs must receive winning outcomes transmitted by the central system.
Electronic Table Games (ETGs) offer video versions of popular casino games like roulette, craps, and baccarat. ETGs are capable of generating winning outcomes at each table. Video lottery gaming operations began in 2004 at Saratoga Gaming & Raceway in Saratoga Springs and have since expanded to eight additional facilities. As of January 1, 2013, there were 17,213 such machines operating in New York State.

It doesn't technically play out like a bingo game like Class II, instead slots/video poker have to receive winning outcomes from the central computer like a pulltab or scratch-off. For slots, this can well mimic a Vegas slot machine, but with video poker...nope.

And in the section on electronic table games, they allow winning outcomes to be generated at the table themselves, leading to a normal table game operation. It just has to be an electronic device for wagering. This will also keep better tabs on table game revenue/results.
JB
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April 26th, 2013 at 12:06:36 PM permalink
Quote: hook3670

how are they able to offer 'real" electronic games if they are only allowed the bingo style games?


That's a good question. Here is my line of reasoning:

1) Tribal casinos are only allowed to offer Class III games if the state within which they are located permits Class III gaming

2) There are tribal casinos in NY which offer Class III gaming, therefore NY state somehow permits Class III gaming

3) NY state runs the NY Lottery, and the NY Lottery runs these racinos, therefore the state runs the racinos

4) Since the state both permits Class III gaming and runs the racinos, I see no reason why they can't offer Class III gaming at them.

The table games page on the Resorts World web site says that they have single-zero (electronic) games "offering guests better winning odds than traditional double-zero roulette." This certainly makes it sound like it functions just like a physical roulette table, which would be Class III.
tringlomane
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April 26th, 2013 at 12:45:07 PM permalink
Quote: JB


4) Since the state both permits Class III gaming and runs the racinos, I see no reason why they can't offer Class III gaming at them.



The state was too stupid to write the law to legalize that form of gaming at racinos at the time is my best guess. Something about RNG games make gambling more dangerous to politicians? Games on Maryland VLTs are RNG-driven as well.

And Illinois's new "video gaming terminals" at bars/restaurants are also completely RNG driven. I briefly short-played a 7/5 Super Aces Bonus game after eating a meal at a family restaurant with my g/f's parents last week; no quad Aces though. :(
100xOdds
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April 26th, 2013 at 3:40:33 PM permalink
sigh.. there are 2 types of e-machines.

one is pure electronic. no idea about the RNG on this (RNG or bingo type) since i avoid it like the plague.

other is electronic everything but the dice (craps), cards (baccarat), and wheel/ball (roulette) are real. There's no RNG/bingo here.
The Single '0' roulette i saw is this type.
i love this type of e-Craps!
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
Tanko
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April 27th, 2013 at 3:34:49 AM permalink
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100xOdds
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April 27th, 2013 at 6:31:21 AM permalink
Quote: Tanko

That number is higher than others because Resorts World has much more Baccarat, Craps and Roulette than the other VLT Casinos. These games, especially Baccarat, have a much lower house edge than Slots, so the casino hold will be higher.

It is not because their slots are looser than other VLT casinos.

For example, they have around 500 Baccarat seats which are nearly all filled most the day.



interesting.. so e-machines w/real dice,cards, and ball are counted as a slot machine in payout reports?
eveything is just lumped altogether? i guess it makes reporting easy.

hm.. i should have made the connection since any win on e-machines over $1200 (including original bet) gets you a w2-G just like a slot machine.
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
tringlomane
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April 28th, 2013 at 8:04:20 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

interesting.. so e-machines w/real dice,cards, and ball are counted as a slot machine in payout reports?
eveything is just lumped altogether? i guess it makes reporting easy.

hm.. i should have made the connection since any win on e-machines over $1200 (including original bet) gets you a w2-G just like a slot machine.



Video poker is traditionally lumped in with slots as well, which I hate. So if returns are reported by denomination (available in some states), 5c, 25c, and $1 slot returns will be somewhat inflated by video poker (well, at least RNG-driven video poker).
Deck007
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March 4th, 2014 at 8:08:54 PM permalink
Quote: JB

That's a good question. Here is my line of reasoning:

1) Tribal casinos are only allowed to offer Class III games if the state within which they are located permits Class III gaming

2) There are tribal casinos in NY which offer Class III gaming, therefore NY state somehow permits Class III gaming

3) NY state runs the NY Lottery, and the NY Lottery runs these racinos, therefore the state runs the racinos

4) Since the state both permits Class III gaming and runs the racinos, I see no reason why they can't offer Class III gaming at them.

The table games page on the Resorts World web site says that they have single-zero (electronic) games "offering guests better winning odds than traditional double-zero roulette." This certainly makes it sound like it functions just like a physical roulette table, which would be Class III.



It is amazing how technology is changing the casino business.

With the Electronic Table Games (ETGs) you don't need live dealers any more.

Even with the singe zero the e- Roulette it is an "unbelievable cash cow" to quote S. Adelson. You get 60 rounds per hour instead of the 10 rounds at a live table.
tringlomane
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March 4th, 2014 at 10:52:31 PM permalink
But Sheldon is against online gambling; go figure.
Deck007
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March 5th, 2014 at 1:25:32 AM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

But Sheldon is against online gambling; go figure.



Sheldon was talking about his Marina Bay Sands casino here in Singapore.
richbailey86
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May 11th, 2014 at 12:35:00 PM permalink
I think ill take a 200 dollar bankroll and play craps for the first time at resorts world. Good way to start. No crazy table with cheering. Just dice in a glass case lol
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GWAE
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May 11th, 2014 at 1:30:05 PM permalink
Quote: richbailey86

I think ill take a 200 dollar bankroll and play craps for the first time at resorts world. Good way to start. No crazy table with cheering. Just dice in a glass case lol



disagree. You should start at a real craps table.
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reno
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September 1st, 2015 at 10:50:35 PM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

Those payout percentages are totally worthless because the game doesn't conform to a random poker deck.



The NY video poker VLT gives the illusion that your vp skill level influences winning payouts. I'm hard-pressed to think of another legal game so shamelessly deceptive.
Compare this to another sucker bet (Big 6 Big 8 in craps), the winning bet might pay atrociously low, but at least the dice aren't loaded. When the vp deck of cards isn't random, the dice might as well be loaded.

Even if this is common knowledge among serious vp players, it preys on the uneducated locals and tourists who didn't do their research.
Avincow
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September 2nd, 2015 at 9:26:49 AM permalink
Quote: reno

Quote: tringlomane

Those payout percentages are totally worthless because the game doesn't conform to a random poker deck.



The NY video poker VLT gives the illusion that your vp skill level influences winning payouts. I'm hard-pressed to think of another legal game so shamelessly deceptive.
Compare this to another sucker bet (Big 6 Big 8 in craps), the winning bet might pay atrociously low, but at least the dice aren't loaded. When the vp deck of cards isn't random, the dice might as well be loaded.

Even if this is common knowledge among serious vp players, it preys on the uneducated locals and tourists who didn't do their research.



Wait, how do you guys know this? How can I know if a machine is bad? Is this only in New York?
SanchoPanza
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September 2nd, 2015 at 9:35:33 AM permalink
Quote: reno

Compare this to another sucker bet (Big 6 Big 8 in craps), the winning bet might pay atrociously low, but at least the dice aren't loaded.

We cannot be sure that the dice are not loaded. Has anyone weighed them and checked them out on the calipers? Our aficionados of unbalanced dice need to know.
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