pennsylvania casino- friend found $500 chip should he be able to cash in at cage?
If he's really nervous, perhaps he should just try to change it at a busy BJ table. Play a few hands for the sake of appearance, take the smaller chips to the cage.
OR
Buy in for 500 and have some fun with it.
Quote: Mission146It's not illegal to attempt to cash a chip you find on the floor. I don't think it's anymore illegal than finding $100 on the ground and spending it.
At Pennsylvania casinos, no finders keepers: Pocketing found cash or playing another's credits may land you in the clink.
It's a scene repeated almost daily in each of Pennsylvania's 10 casinos, where most of the nearly 2,400 thefts investigated over the past three years are the kind of incidents that, outside the casinos, would be considered little more than lost money.
It actually is illegal to spend a $100 bill you find on the ground. Legally, you should go to the police, and make a good faith effort to find the owner, and the police will turn it over to you if no one claims it. As a practical matter, you would normally only do that if you found a suitcase full of cash.
Quote: 98Clubsnon-sequiter link... the topic is CHIPS not bills. The CHIP is Casino property. Surveillance might determine the person that dropped it. I have to review other parts of PA Gaming Law to determine if a person can exit/return with a chip, considering the (remote) possibility of counterfeitting. My advice, turn it in with ID and receipt.
If you looked at the article, PA casinos are prosecuting people who cash in anything (chips, slot tickets, banknotes) that they find on the floor. The implication is that in most cases the finder sees who drops the item, but they make it pretty clear that they are prosecuting anything.
Quote: MonkeyMonkeyIt seems like the answer is simple: If you lost a $500 chip what would you want the finder to do? Do that.
You mean because others might be chumps, you should be one?
cage personnel from keeping it? How easy/hard would it be for the cage to keep
the $500?
I would turn the chip in if I was sure the person I was giving it to wasn't going to steal it.
But I would have to be nearly 100% sure. If I had any doubt, I would keep it.
someone left over $200 in slugs in a $5 machine tray, and the casino can not find the owner, they keep the slugs.
Just my luck to have an honest wife.
I imagine the same will happen in a TITO machine.
Quote: pacomartinAt Pennsylvania casinos, no finders keepers: Pocketing found cash or playing another's credits may land you in the clink.
It's a scene repeated almost daily in each of Pennsylvania's 10 casinos, where most of the nearly 2,400 thefts investigated over the past three years are the kind of incidents that, outside the casinos, would be considered little more than lost money.
It actually is illegal to spend a $100 bill you find on the ground. Legally, you should go to the police, and make a good faith effort to find the owner, and the police will turn it over to you if no one claims it. As a practical matter, you would normally only do that if you found a suitcase full of cash.
Thanks, PacoMartin, I never would have guessed that!
Greedy act by the casinos, though, if you ask me. They already got $$$ for the chip, so it's not like they're really losing anything.
I would contest, that as a practical matter, I would not do that if I found a suitcase full of cash. Paying off my car seems practical!
No answer to the second question welcomed.
Quote: pacomartinIt actually is illegal to spend a $100 bill you find on the ground. Legally, you should go to the police, and make a good faith effort to find the owner, and the police will turn it over to you if no one claims it. As a practical matter, you would normally only do that if you found a suitcase full of cash.
This reminds me of the episode when the Brady boys found a bag full of money. Mr. Brady was right after all.
Quote: WizardMr. Brady was right after all.
To the Wiz, obsession is spelled b-r-a-d-y-b-u-n-c-h.
Quote: KeyserMost casinos will cash $500 and $1000 chips without blinking an eye or asking for ID. Don't worry about cashing a $500 chip or giving it to a friend to cash.
I don't know what casino you were at, but if it was Presque Isle, they sweat the purple chips. Before they push the chips to me, the floor makes a call, and I cannot get purple chips without a players card.
Don't know about other PA casinos.
Quote: FleaStiffYou mean because others might be chumps, you should be one?
I'm not sure what you mean. You seem to be alluding to a course of action without explicitly saying what that course of action would be.
Personally, I look at it like this: Would $500 be nice to have? Sure. Would it be a life changing event? No... unless I was caught then I'd probably lose my gaming license and that would be life changing.
Quote: IbeatyouracesI absolutely rufuse to accept $1000 or higher chips at any MGM property.
That sounds like a good policy. I think I shall adopt it. Thanks IBYA, and don't let anyone say that this board is devoid of AP-relevant topics! There are some gems for sure.
Quote: AcesAndEightsThat sounds like a good policy. I think I shall adopt it. Thanks IBYA, and don't let anyone say that this board is devoid of AP-relevant topics! There are some gems for sure.
Actually, now that I think about it, how does the implementation of this policy work? Say you are at a BJ table and are ready to leave. You have a stack of various black/green/etc. chips and are ready to color in. I'm thinking that saying "could you just give me purple, I'm not comfortable with yellow?" might raise some suspicions. How do you do this in practice?
"mom always says, 'dont play ball in the house'" -Words to live by from Bobby Brady.
Quote: IdiotWheelNot to get your "friend" more paranoid, but with the potential of it being an RFID chip the thoughts of that show "bait car" come to mind.
"mom always says, 'dont play ball in the house'" -Words to live by from Bobby Brady.
So, perhaps your friend were to drop a couple of chips on the floor, and then bend down and scoop up all of the chips? How was he to know one of the chips he picked up was not one he just dropped?
| If a casino was anal enough to go to a 'bait chip', and I can't imagine that any casino would, then I would have no objection to the above play.
Quote: buzzpaffI am confused. In Colorado a gaming license cost $100, not $500
Not sure what Colorado has to do with it, but in any event not having a gaming license would mean not having my job which would cost me a lot more than $500.
I have to admit if I found $500 dollars, be it chip or green piece of paper, I'd be thrilled, right up until the moment I realized someone else would have just the opposite, and perhaps more extreme, experience. At that point there's no way I could consider keeping it. It wouldn't be worth it to put my job on the line and it wouldn't be worth it to sell that little piece of my soul. I suppose, given the responses in this thread, YMMV.
Quote: MonkeyMonkeyNot sure what Colorado has to do with it, but in any event not having a gaming license would mean not having my job which would cost me a lot more than $500.
I have to admit if I found $500 dollars, be it chip or green piece of paper, I'd be thrilled, right up until the moment I realized someone else would have just the opposite, and perhaps more extreme, experience. At that point there's no way I could consider keeping it. It wouldn't be worth it to put my job on the line and it wouldn't be worth it to sell that little piece of my soul. I suppose, given the responses in this thread, YMMV.
Rest assured, my comment is predicated on the fact that there is no way to know who dropped the chip. If I knew who the rightful owner was, or if I had a reasonable chance at finding said owner, I would do so. However, I ABSOLUTELY WOULD NOT JUST HAND THE CHIP TO THE CASINO so they can put it back in their till. They have no more moral right to the chip/money than I do. If the rightful owner cannot be established, then it should be finder's keepers.
I had a waitress get my attention at craps one day as she was walking by, and pointed out a $25 chip laying in the main aisle. Hundreds of people walking right past it. I retrieved the chip, and as she was walking by about 10 min later I called her over, asked for a bottle of water, and tipped her a $25 chip.
Quote: RaleighCrapsRest assured, my comment is predicated on the fact that there is no way to know who dropped the chip. If I knew who the rightful owner was, or if I had a reasonable chance at finding said owner, I would do so. However, I ABSOLUTELY WOULD NOT JUST HAND THE CHIP TO THE CASINO so they can put it back in their till. They have no more moral right to the chip/money than I do. If the rightful owner cannot be established, then it should be finder's keepers.
I had a waitress get my attention at craps one day as she was walking by, and pointed out a $25 chip laying in the main aisle. Hundreds of people walking right past it. I retrieved the chip, and as she was walking by about 10 min later I called her over, asked for a bottle of water, and tipped her a $25 chip.
I haven't read every response in this thread so I'm not really sure what you're referring to.
I will say that if a chip is found in a casino it's pretty likely surveillance can determine who lost it. Turning a chip in at the cage, or to security, or whoever starts a paper trail regarding the chip, it's pretty unlikely that as you turn your back to walk away the chip is going to go into someone else's pocket. Where I work if a player leaves a pack of smokes on the table or even a coin like a dime or a couple penny's we have to treat it like we've found a bar of gold. There are reports, paperwork, sometimes even photographs. I honestly don't know how long that chip would sit around in a plastic baggie being evidence, but I know it would go through a due process and not just back into the casino coffers.
And at any rate I wouldn't want any ill gotten gains, but that's just me, YMMV.
I once turned in 2 and 1/2 million dollars, cause I felt the person who lost it might be poor.
Quote: Mission146I would contest, that as a practical matter, I would not do that if I found a suitcase full of cash. Paying off my car seems practical!
If you did find a suitcase full of cash (say $30,000) there is an overwhelming chance that the money was gotten from some illegal activity. The criminals might be looking for it. Now if you took it immediately by taxi to your bank thinking that you would be safe by staying in public, you would have to report it to the IRS (over $10K). If there is some physical evidence on the cash (DNA or drugs) you could find yourself being investigated. If you take it home you might be followed by a criminal.
If you take it to the police, and no one claims it, you can legally take control. In most cases if it is illegal money, the bag carrier has been punished, and they will not make an attempt to claim the cash. You may have to declare the money as income, but you could pay off your car without being afraid someone will attack you.
With respect to the 10K, I would have opened checking accounts at different banks because I was aware of that.
Quote: buzzpaff" I'd be thrilled, right up until the moment I realized someone else would have just the opposite, and perhaps more extreme, experience. "
I once turned in 2 and 1/2 million dollars, cause I felt the person who lost it might be poor.
But, how much did you find ?
Quote: buzzpaffI once turned in 2 and 1/2 million dollars, cause I felt the person who lost it might be poor.
Wow, it never even occurred to me that right and wrong could be predicated on someone's personal wealth.
Then you have never had a marriage annulled in the Catholic Church as the result of a large donation.
Quote: buzzpaffThen you have never had a marriage annulled in the Catholic Church as the result of a large donation.
You're psychic abilities are remarkable, how could you have known such a personal detail?
But perhaps more intriguing is how you link this obscure, yet completely accurate fact, with the subject matter at hand: keeping money that isn't yours.
I can always buy dispensation with part of the found money. Or so my Bishop tells me.
Quote: pacomartinAt Pennsylvania casinos, no finders keepers: Pocketing found cash or playing another's credits may land you in the clink.
It's a scene repeated almost daily in each of Pennsylvania's 10 casinos, where most of the nearly 2,400 thefts investigated over the past three years are the kind of incidents that, outside the casinos, would be considered little more than lost money.
It actually is illegal to spend a $100 bill you find on the ground. Legally, you should go to the police, and make a good faith effort to find the owner, and the police will turn it over to you if no one claims it. As a practical matter, you would normally only do that if you found a suitcase full of cash.
Guess what? This is the biggest lie ever told. PA law clearly states abandoned property would belong to the finder as long as a reasonable attempt is made to find the rightful owner and it is returned if the owner is found. They mislead the public intentionally so all lost or abandoned money is kept by the state.
PA - lost property goes to the finder, but he must make reasonable efforts to find the true owner:
www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/18/00.039.024.000..HTM
§ 3924. Theft of property lost, mislaid, or delivered by mistake.
A person who comes into control of property of another that he knows to have been lost, mislaid, or delivered under a mistake as to the nature or amount of the property or the identity of the recipient is guilty of theft if, with intent to deprive the owner thereof, he fails to take reasonable measures to restore the property to a person entitled to have it.
Cross References. Section 3924 is referred to in section 5552 of Title 42 (Judiciary and Judicial Procedure).
The thing to be certain to do is not spend it, because if you discover the rightful owner, you better be able to give them the money back.
The slot attendants at PA casinos steal any money left unattended in the machines, so you'll never see a penny left in them. They took my credits and my card once while I left for less than 5 minutes and I was POed because someone could have taken the Big Ben I was playing.
But lets say I were trying to cash a chip given to me as a part of a legitimate debt, but I were concerned about the casino's willingness to cash it.
I would go to a blackjack table and get about 600 in chips. Play really light. Blather about bad luck/how far you are down for the day. Color up the chips and ask for black. Cash out (poker room is best) for 600 using the 500 and one 100 chip. If they check with the tables the total will be right. Screw around for a while, then check out the remaining blacks you have, maybe after playing light again.
Quote: onenickelmiracleQuote: pacomartinAt Pennsylvania casinos, no finders keepers: Pocketing found cash or playing another's credits may land you in the clink.
It's a scene repeated almost daily in each of Pennsylvania's 10 casinos, where most of the nearly 2,400 thefts investigated over the past three years are the kind of incidents that, outside the casinos, would be considered little more than lost money.
It actually is illegal to spend a $100 bill you find on the ground. Legally, you should go to the police, and make a good faith effort to find the owner, and the police will turn it over to you if no one claims it. As a practical matter, you would normally only do that if you found a suitcase full of cash.
Guess what? This is the biggest lie ever told. PA law clearly states abandoned property would belong to the finder as long as a reasonable attempt is made to find the rightful owner and it is returned if the owner is found. They mislead the public intentionally so all lost or abandoned money is kept by the state.
PA - lost property goes to the finder, but he must make reasonable efforts to find the true owner:
www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/18/00.039.024.000..HTM
§ 3924. Theft of property lost, mislaid, or delivered by mistake.
A person who comes into control of property of another that he knows to have been lost, mislaid, or delivered under a mistake as to the nature or amount of the property or the identity of the recipient is guilty of theft if, with intent to deprive the owner thereof, he fails to take reasonable measures to restore the property to a person entitled to have it.
Cross References. Section 3924 is referred to in section 5552 of Title 42 (Judiciary and Judicial Procedure).
The thing to be certain to do is not spend it, because if you discover the rightful owner, you better be able to give them the money back.
The slot attendants at PA casinos steal any money left unattended in the machines, so you'll never see a penny left in them. They took my credits and my card once while I left for less than 5 minutes and I was POed because someone could have taken the Big Ben I was playing.
http://gamingcontrolboard.pa.gov/?pr=396
They consider it theft and not found because there is so much surveillance that they are able to track down the owners.
Theft is defined under Pennsylvania criminal law as unlawfully taking or otherwise depriving another of moveable property including theft by property lost, mislaid, or delivered by mistake. The penalties generally vary by the value of the items involved in the theft. Most lesser value theft charges are misdemeanors, and penalties for theft under $50 in value are typically a summary offense
If this chip is found on the street where there is no assumption of being recorded then the finders keepers law does apply. A savy lawyer might be able to make a case in court but as of right now there has not been one so the law stands as the PGCB describes it. There have been at least a dozen cases in the Rivers Casino in Pittsburgh that I am personally aware of.
One of the more infamous ones are. There is a $20 bill on the ground. Security spots in via camera and sends someone to get it. At about the same time a guy sees it and picks it up and puts it in his pocket. 15 seconds later security and state police arrest him.
Quote: GWAEQuote: onenickelmiracleQuote: pacomartinAt Pennsylvania casinos, no finders keepers: Pocketing found cash or playing another's credits may land you in the clink.
It's a scene repeated almost daily in each of Pennsylvania's 10 casinos, where most of the nearly 2,400 thefts investigated over the past three years are the kind of incidents that, outside the casinos, would be considered little more than lost money.
It actually is illegal to spend a $100 bill you find on the ground. Legally, you should go to the police, and make a good faith effort to find the owner, and the police will turn it over to you if no one claims it. As a practical matter, you would normally only do that if you found a suitcase full of cash.
Guess what? This is the biggest lie ever told. PA law clearly states abandoned property would belong to the finder as long as a reasonable attempt is made to find the rightful owner and it is returned if the owner is found. They mislead the public intentionally so all lost or abandoned money is kept by the state.
PA - lost property goes to the finder, but he must make reasonable efforts to find the true owner:
www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/18/00.039.024.000..HTM
§ 3924. Theft of property lost, mislaid, or delivered by mistake.
A person who comes into control of property of another that he knows to have been lost, mislaid, or delivered under a mistake as to the nature or amount of the property or the identity of the recipient is guilty of theft if, with intent to deprive the owner thereof, he fails to take reasonable measures to restore the property to a person entitled to have it.
Cross References. Section 3924 is referred to in section 5552 of Title 42 (Judiciary and Judicial Procedure).
The thing to be certain to do is not spend it, because if you discover the rightful owner, you better be able to give them the money back.
The slot attendants at PA casinos steal any money left unattended in the machines, so you'll never see a penny left in them. They took my credits and my card once while I left for less than 5 minutes and I was POed because someone could have taken the Big Ben I was playing.
http://gamingcontrolboard.pa.gov/?pr=396
They consider it theft and not found because there is so much surveillance that they are able to track down the owners.
Theft is defined under Pennsylvania criminal law as unlawfully taking or otherwise depriving another of moveable property including theft by property lost, mislaid, or delivered by mistake. The penalties generally vary by the value of the items involved in the theft. Most lesser value theft charges are misdemeanors, and penalties for theft under $50 in value are typically a summary offense
If this chip is found on the street where there is no assumption of being recorded then the finders keepers law does apply. A savy lawyer might be able to make a case in court but as of right now there has not been one so the law stands as the PGCB describes it. There have been at least a dozen cases in the Rivers Casino in Pittsburgh that I am personally aware of.
One of the more infamous ones are. There is a $20 bill on the ground. Security spots in via camera and sends someone to get it. At about the same time a guy sees it and picks it up and puts it in his pocket. 15 seconds later security and state police arrest him.
I'm not sure if someone found money or a TITO and posted a newspaper ad or online ad, they would be guilty if they returned the money to the rightful owner if they found them. Personally I was angered quite a bit when an employee cashed my TITO out and I had to suffer the inconvenience of retrieving it.
Hanging out for a little while gives the suits some time to notice and approach you. You could probably avoid trouble if you just gave it back.
Quote: JimmerNo way I'd turn it in. I'd probably pick it up, chill at the snack bar for a couple of hours, cash it in at a bj table, play a few hands, and hit the cage.
That's because you're a thief with no morals.
