Here We Go Again: Unshuffled Baccarat at Golden Nugget AC...
Quote: bigpete88Please post updates on this case until everything is resolved.
The Nugget may start looking for new representation, at least in AC:
""Steven Scheinthal, the Golden Nugget's executive vice president and general counsel, who began yelling at the judge that he did not have all the pertinent information in the case, including evidence of how the casino maintains the players violated house rules by sharing money and chips among themselves during the games to avoid individual betting limits.
"I've been on the bench for 12 years now, and I don't believe anyone has ever spoken to me like that," Isman said. ---nbc news
Its against the casino... and it ain't getting any better.
The casino can reach Gemaco's pockets... what more do they really need.
Pay the two dollars.
Then settle the strong arm goon stuff and count yourself lucky.
If the casino "wins" this in court, it still loses. Drop the appeal, drop that over-zealous counsel.
I thought about counsel because as a general rule I hate lawyers (but did not mention in prior post).
The owner decided to settle which at this point might be a smart move. There are not a lot of dumb billionaires and the owner is a billionaire.
Who was the idiot that said to take this to Court? Too bad for him but maybe jobless.
I have hired and fired enough lawyers to agree with the comments from the prior posters.
Can someone private message me the phone number and name of the local reporter on this?????? Lawyer on the case??
Quote: ParadigmThis is confusing...."a proprietary secret" that players could discern easily. So if it isn't 2-3-4-5, it must be something like 2c-2d-2h-2s-3c-3d.....bottom line is it may not have been numerical order, but it might as well have been if the Average Joe figured it out.
We're talking about Asian baccarat players. The way they sniff out patterns where there aren't any, you think they're going to miss the ones, however obscure, that are actually there?
We finally agree to agree on a post.
Nice on a Sunday :-)
Quote: kulin
It might be that the lawsuit is a strategic one to use as leverage with any potential lawsuits for false imprisonment.
"Fertitta said he wanted to avoid litigation that could have possibly dragged on for years. His offer includes paying the gamblers if they agree to drop their countersuits against Golden Nugget."
So should I just go ahead and do my "I was right" dance here? Or should I make another thread on this topic dedicated solely to how right I was?
Now I don't what the "unshuffled sequence" was but it seems the ever-vigilant Chinese gamblers do. I too wonder about a particular sequence being random, but its the only way to know if cards have been sufficiently shuffled. Flip them over and if they are in the special sequence then they have not been shuffled at all. Seems like a strange way of running a card shuffling business, but . . . .
Okay, I retract the comments about lowly-paid, overly bored jerks working as: Dealers, Floor, Pit, Surveillance, but I still wonder how the No Tickee No Shirtee types bested people who are in the industry? No one performs well as a low level robot bored out of his skull who doen't even care what is happening around him. Perhaps thats the difference. The ten dollar immigrant cares and a few of them happened to have the table maximum five grand with them.
So now they can proceed with the tort actions against the hotel Goon Squad.
Quote: SanchoPanzaThe Nugget may start looking for new representation, at least in AC:
""Steven Scheinthal, the Golden Nugget's executive vice president and general counsel, who began yelling at the judge that he did not have all the pertinent information in the case, including evidence of how the casino maintains the players violated house rules by sharing money and chips among themselves during the games to avoid individual betting limits.
"I've been on the bench for 12 years now, and I don't believe anyone has ever spoken to me like that," Isman said. ---nbc news
If the judge did not have all the evidence in front of him--or at least a summation of the evidence that would be presented had the case been tried and appealed--isn't that the fault of the GN's legal counsel? I don't get sued a lot but the one lawsuit I got served with was way longer than it needed to be describing every possible way the person might have been wronged (it turned out okay for me but there were a lot of lawyer dollars spent answering all of the things presented).
Ownership got this right. They would have likely lost both the case and the good faith of their customers, but the former is more important than the latter. If players feel they can't trust the casino to pay them when they win just like they take their money when they lose, who would want to play there? I know this was an extreme case but extreme cases get the publicity.
Quote: FleaStiffNow I don't what the "unshuffled sequence" was but it seems the ever-vigilant Chinese gamblers do.
Do you think there is any chance that the unshuffled sequence coincidentally happened to be one that players would identify as a legitimate pattern? As I understand it, baccarat is a game of tracking results to predict the future. I wonder if the unshuffled starter sequence used by the manufacturer was just one that results in a pattern that is easy to identify (ie: banker and player alternate wins every two rounds).
Quote: kulinDo you think there is any chance that the unshuffled sequence coincidentally happened to be one that players would identify as a legitimate pattern? As I understand it, baccarat is a game of tracking results to predict the future. I wonder if the unshuffled starter sequence used by the manufacturer was just one that results in a pattern that is easy to identify (ie: banker and player alternate wins every two rounds).
This is posible. Consider the 13 card sequence: 97T6 J38A 52K4Q
It uses all 13 values and creates a Player Player Banker pattern.
Change the first group to 769T and its Tie Player Banker.
Change the first group to T697 and its Banker Player Banker.
There are lots of differant ways to create these simple 13 card pattenrs.
The reasoning wasn't mentioned in the paper, but I still stand firm in that the cards should have at least been inspected trademark and pip sides for printing flaws at the very least. Nothing worse for both Customer and House having marked cards (unintentional, error) on the table. IMHO GN loses both sides here.
*******
Perhaps Gemaco's lawyer is being completely honest when he says it was "a one-time isolated mistake." On the other hand, if there were still a dozen (or more) unshuffled decks still out there, would Gemaco admit it?
Quote: reno
Perhaps Gemaco's lawyer is being completely honest when he says it was "a one-time isolated mistake." On the other hand, if there were still a dozen (or more) unshuffled decks still out there, would Gemaco admit it?
They'd have to! If you think they are in some boiling H2O now, just let him make that statement and have the same thing happen elsewhere!
They probably used the phrase "To the best of our knowledge," but it got edited out of the story.
Quote: Mission146They'd have to! If you think they are in some boiling H2O now, just let him make that statement and have the same thing happen elsewhere!
If they could isolate it to a specific batch, they could recall the defective product. But recalls are expensive...
Quote: FleaStiff
If immigrants who bet at the ten dollar level can figure this Secret Sequence out but dealers, Floor Men, Pit bosses and surveillance people can not figure it out, I wonder what is up? Haven't even learned "No Tickee, No Shirtee" yet but they've figured out a trade secret?
Flea, you have a horrible habit of being condescending and racist toward Chinese people.
This is not the first or only thread where you have made your little joke.
I find it curious that you have the nerve to denigrate 1.3 billion people in such an off-hand manner.
It may not have occurred to you that many Chinese and Asians
Are of a far higher intellect and income level than you and everyone you know.
Perhaps you will consider this fact the next time you dismiss an entire race with your juvenile, small minded bigotry.
Just sayin...
Quote: WongBoFlea, you have a horrible habit of being condescending and racist toward Chinese people.
Flea would not say this in front of an Asian becasue he will get his head knocked off. Flea you need to aplogies for being a racist jerk. I know for a fact if he said this infront of me I will knock his head off and and say "me so so soorry."
As for some more info about this incident, the players have not accepted the deal yet. They are thinking about persuing the law where they get 3 times the damaged award.
Quote: WongBo
Perhaps you will consider this fact the next time you dismiss an entire race with your juvenile, small minded bigotry.
Just sayin...
I must say, though, the Chinese players I've met
over the years in the casino are the most stand
offish, arrogant, unfriendly people I've ever met.
The ones I've met seem to have a giant chip on
their shoulder if you happen to be white. I don't
get it and at this point I don't care. Did we have
war with them I'm not remembering? Many of
them come to this country and start extremely
successful businesses, yet they seem to resent
the hell out of us for being here. I don't get it.
I think he plays over in PA now for the most part, since the Rules are better.
Quote: EvenBobI must say, though, the Chinese players I've met
over the years in the casino are the most stand
offish, arrogant, unfriendly people I've ever met.
The ones I've met seem to have a giant chip on
their shoulder if you happen to be white. I don't
get it and at this point I don't care. Did we have
war with them I'm not remembering? Many of
them come to this country and start extremely
successful businesses, yet they seem to resent
the hell out of us for being here. I don't get it.
This country was built by the first generation immigrants. These immgrants have an attitude that if you don't work you don't eat. They did not believe in hand outs, now called "entitlements." Do not confuse standoffish with being arrogant and unfriendly. EvenBob, have you ever tried talking to a Chinese person in Chinese? Have you ever learned to greet a Chinese in his native language.
"seem to resent the hell out of us for being here" These would be the native american who the whites have almost exterminated. These would also be blacks who were brought here as slaves. I have not noticed any Chinese say these about the whites but if you say so, it must be the truth.
I'm good, Ni-Hao, ma, AceCrAAckers?
Quote: EvenBobI must say, though, the Chinese players I've met
over the years in the casino are the most stand
offish, arrogant, unfriendly people I've ever met.
The ones I've met seem to have a giant chip on
their shoulder if you happen to be white. I don't
get it and at this point I don't care. Did we have
war with them I'm not remembering? Many of
them come to this country and start extremely
successful businesses, yet they seem to resent
the hell out of us for being here. I don't get it.
More likely, they are tired of people mocking their culture, language and customs.
Or maybe a little weary of hearing words like chink, gook, slope, oriental ...or many others.
And many of the people in a casino are not the nicest folks, that goes across all colors, creeds, nations.
Quote: WongBoMore likely, they are tired of people mocking their culture, language and customs.
Or maybe a little weary of hearing words like chink, gook, slope, oriental ...or many others.
And many of the people in a casino are not the nicest folks, that goes across all colors, creeds, nations.
I could do without all the drunken white guys, myself.
Quote: AceCrAAckersEvenBob, have you ever tried talking to a Chinese person in Chinese?
I'll tell you what I've done, many times at the bac
table. I know a guy speaks English because I've heard
him talking to the pit about comps. Yet when I talk to
him, he knows not a word of what I'm saying. He
understands no English at all.
Just last week I was in a Chinese restaurant I go to
with a friend a lot. They seated us in a big room
off the dining room because it was crowded. We
had the whole room to ourselves. Later here comes
a group of Chinese men into the room and when
they saw us, the first guy stops in his tracks so
fast the guy behind him runs into him. He's looking
at us with scowl screwing up his face while he's
chattering away to his buddies in Chinese. They
talk about it and decide that its OK to eat in the same
room with the filthy stupid whites. It was hilarious.
Quote: AceCrAAckers"seem to resent the hell out of us for being here" These would be the native american who the whites have almost exterminated.
We're not all dead. I could care less that s2dbaker lives on "my" Manhattan, or SOOPOO's home is on my aboriginal land.
The only patron I remember on either of my trips to Vegas was Asian, and I remember him because he was a laugh riot.
Quote: EvenBobI'll tell you what I've done, many times at the bac
table. I know a guy speaks English because I've heard
him talking to the pit about comps. Yet when I talk to
him, he knows not a word of what I'm saying. He
understands no English at all.
Just last week I was in a Chinese restaurant I go to
with a friend a lot. They seated us in a big room
off the dining room because it was crowded. We
had the whole room to ourselves. Later here comes
a group of Chinese men into the room and when
they saw us, the first guy stops in his tracks so
fast the guy behind him runs into him. He's looking
at us with scowl screwing up his face while he's
chattering away to his buddies in Chinese. They
talk about it and decide that its OK to eat in the same
room with the filthy stupid whites. It was hilarious.
That explainis everything. Thanks for clearing up why you are a racist jerk.
"He's looking
at us with scowl screwing up his face while he's
chattering away to his buddies in Chinese. They
talk about it and decide that its OK to eat in the same
room with the filthy stupid whites. "
So you can understand Chinese. There are serveral dialects. Which one are you fluent in? Mandrian, Cantonese?
Quote: AceCrAAckersThat explainis everything. Thanks for clearing up why you are a racist jerk.
I'm not the racist jerk who didn't want to sit in
a dining room cause a couple white guys are there.
I'm not the racist jerk who pretends not to speak
English because talking to a white guy is beneath
me.
What the heck are you talking about.
When you do, do you just characterize all whites as assholes?
Didn't think so.
Why characterize all Chinese based on small sample size?
Ask the Chinese if they have evr experienced the same shit treatment from whites of your generation.
Quote: EvenBob
Just last week I was in a Chinese restaurant I go to
with a friend a lot. They seated us in a big room
off the dining room because it was crowded. We
had the whole room to ourselves. Later here comes
a group of Chinese men into the room and when
they saw us, the first guy stops in his tracks so
fast the guy behind him runs into him. He's looking
at us with scowl screwing up his face while he's
chattering away to his buddies in Chinese. They
talk about it and decide that its OK to eat in the same
room with the filthy stupid whites. It was hilarious.
Sometimes you make a bad first impression.
Quote: WongBo
Why characterize all Chinese based on small sample size?
Not all, just most of the ones I've met. I'm sure
its just a fluke, Chinese are nice to all white people
except me. I'm sure thats it.
Quote: AceCrAAckersI am not Chinese but I also know how to greet in multiple languages. Shalom Mission146.
Bonjour, Comment-allez vous?
Quote: EvenBobNot all, just most of the ones I've met. I'm sure
its just a fluke, Chinese are nice to all white people
except me. I'm sure thats it.
It must be particularly galling for a heterosexual white male American to feel the sting of prejudice...
Quote: WongBoIt must be particularly galling for a heterosexual white male American to feel the sting of prejudice...
LOL! You don't even know what prejuduce is. Try
living in Hawaii like I did for a year. Everybody
hates everybody there. The Chinese hate the
Japanese, and vice versa. The Hawaiian's hate
the Somoan's and the military. The Chinese and
the Japanese hate the whites and the Hawaiian's.
The Hawaiian's love the white women and hate
white men. I never saw any black people there
so who knows about them. It was fun, as a white
guy everybody hated me but would hit on my
girlfriend right in front of me. She got so tan
her skin was the color of mahogany. I got so sick
of backing off the unrelenting mobs of guys after
her I finally left the place. I wouldn't go back
there if the trip was free.
Quote: EvenBobLOL! You don't even know what prejuduce is....
As a gay Eurasian I think I have some idea...
But yeah the world is full of haters....
Quote: WongBoAs a gay Eurasian I think I have some idea...
...
Go to Hawaii, a lot more people will love you
than love me..
Quote: EvenBobGo to Hawaii, a lot more people will love you
than love me..
That might be true of more places than just Hawaii. :P
Quote: WongBoIt must be particularly galling for a heterosexual white male American to feel the sting of prejudice...
About as galling for a Chinese man also, not unlike myself, Mr. Wong: Xing-Fu Choi, of Guandong, China.
You forget that I, too, am Chinese.
The Pai Gow MASTER...and also the crap master.
:)
學廣東話
Quote: WongBoLo fan Dan ....We meet again..
:)
Oh!
I think you mean; "Gwai Lo", or Gweilo.
I know when my wife is talking about me on the phone through this one. :)
Quote: Paigowdan
You forget that I, too, am Chinese.
.
But you look Somoan, Dan. Its because you
weigh 300 pounds.
Quote: EvenBobBut you look Somoan, Dan. Its because you
weigh 300 pounds.
It's the pasta, along with the sticky rice my wife makes.
I cannot resist !
Arroy mak mak! (and that's Thai...)
Bob's just taking his typical shots at people, because he's that kind of guy.
take a look of my facebook pictures.
