Money management system

I got excited about this for a while, but I've come to realize money management systems are little different from betting systems. You just can't overcome the house edge with parlor tricks...

I also wonder about something else, but first my "system":

I warn you first: you will lose money in the long run using this or any other system.

The idea is to keep any winnings and minimize losses. So what I do first is set aside half the buy-in and try not to use it. This is done easiest in craps, so that's the example I'll use. So after buying in for, say, $200 at a $5 table, I will put $100 on the back chip rail and $100 in the front, but I'll bet the front chips only.

When/if I win anything (pass line, hardways, palce bets, lay bets, etc), I will split, more or less in half, the winnings between the back and front rails. Again, I play freely with the chips in front and try not to use the ones in the back.

I keep playing this way until the chips in the front rail are gone.

If I hit some positive variance early, I'll leave up a little. If not, I leave down half the buy in. If I have a good roll, or catcha hot shooter, I can leave up with, say, $120 (meaning $320 total).

Now, I wonder if by not playing the full buy-in I'm missing out on either play time or variance. I mean enough to ahve made a possible difference.

Next time I play, I won't split the buy-in, but will put 2/3 of the winnings in a "don't touch" situation. Not that I expect that will work :)

Yeah, but which pile does the money to press a bet come from?

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Yeah, but which pile does the money to press a bet come from?

The front.

That was a failing I noticed, in restrospect. Finally someone would go on a hot roll, and I sat there with untouched money and only a pass line and odds on the table...

A "system" I sometimes use involves the same idea of keeping any winnings, but I do it slightly differently. I assume that whatever I bought in with I'm willing to risk, so that's the amount I always have on the "front rail". I'll use the front rail for betting and the back rail for keeping and walking away with.

Whatever I buy in with goes to the front rail. Whenever I have winnings over my initial buy-in amount, those go into the back rail. When the front rail is gone, I walk away with whatever is in the back rail. (I'll use the terminologies of front and back rail even at the table games where such don't exist.)

If I'm playing blackjack, then my total monies are counted at the end of every shoe. Whatever amount I have over the initial buy-in goes to the back rail. Normally, I don't allow any betting to take place from back rail monies. However, if the situation comes up where I need to double or split and the back rail money is all that's left, then I use it. I remember how much came out of the back rail, and replace that immediately in the event of a win. In the event of a loss, I just walk with whatever is left in the back rail.

For craps, I'll count monies after each shooter. Same principle applies, anything over the initial buy-in goes to the back rail, which is walking away money. This makes it simple to do such things as pressing bets, as all that is in the category of front rail money until such time as the shooter is done.

Pai Gow Poker is slow enough that I count monies after every hand. Well, not really since the amount of money won is low. I just take whatever is over the initial buy-in and put in on the back rail.

For the record, I don't always stick with this system. If, after a shoe of blackjack, I'm positive $10, that $10 goes into the back rail. If I then go on a bad streak and lose my initial buy-in, there's a part of me that figures it's not worth leaving with only $10, so I might as well bet it. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.

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silly
Sally

Quote: mustangsally

Yes, you are missing out!

I thougth so.

I'm pretty bad at math. So I hope you won't mind if I impose a bit and ask a question:

Assuming a minimum bet of 5 units and double odds max, doing one pass line and two come bets, how big a buy-in would you recommend?

Thank you.

Quote: Nareed

I thougth so. Assuming a minimum bet of 5 units and double odds max, doing one pass line and two come bets, how big a buy-in would you recommend?

It still depends on your goals.
How long do you want to play? The number of bets to make?
And will you quit once you hit a win goal or go bust?
These are important as it will help to answer your question
Enjoy!

Quote: Nareed

I thougth so.

I'm pretty bad at math. So I hope you won't mind if I impose a bit and ask a question:

Assuming a minimum bet of 5 units and double odds max, doing one pass line and two come bets, how big a buy-in would you recommend?

Thank you.

I knew you would ask a question like this. And it is a good question. Many have no clue at all.
You also had a Craps question a long time ago that I did simulations on but did not post the results. I can also bump that thread.

I am at currently at work and it is now time for me to work.
I enter data into a computer.
Sometimes I have no work to do for hours on end as I wait for others to finish their work first.

Later tonight or tomorrow or soon (hey, Im a young girl) I will give you some answers and a formula to work with. The math is easy once you have the right formulas to work with.
Sally

Quote: mustangsally

Later tonight or tomorrow or soon (hey, Im a young girl) I will give you some answers and a formula to work with. The math is easy once you have the right formulas to work with.

Thanks. I aprpeciate it.

ed431312

Quote: 7craps

You mean a $5 bet with 2X odds?

Yes. and that's about as far as I understood your post. I really am bad with math.

Quote:

The 2 come bets will add extra -ev and variance but less than any place bet. (ev/sd)

I sometimes palce the 6 and 8, but those have a larger HE than a come bet; which is what I asusume you said.

Quote:

My question, and for Sally also (Sally I can PM you my data if you wish so we can compare),
is how many bets do you expect to make? That is easy to answer but it does not tell us how many rolls will be needed.

That I don't know. Typically I buy in for what I'm comfortable losing and play as outlined in the OP. The exception is in a $2 table, where I bought in for $60 and played it all (I wiped out, too). My goal si to elave the table with 150% of my buy-in or close to it. When I find msyelf that much ahead, I figure I should stop tempting fate and cash out.

e43131

Quote: 7craps

That is helpful. I already have data on this. I will see what Sally comes up with.

Thanks you. Not that I get everything you say... :)

Quote: Nareed

Now, I wonder if by not playing the full buy-in I'm missing out on either play time or variance. I mean enough to ahve made a possible difference.

Next time just buy in for twice as much as you usually do. That'll allow you twice as much play time (variance is a number, you cannot possibly be or not be "losing" on it).

Here is my system. I buy in, play for a while ... If I win, and don't feel like playing some more, I leave, otherwise, I just add my winnings to the same pile. If I lose, and still want to play, I buy in for more. Otherwise, go home.

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silly
Sally

Thanks!

Quote: mustangsally

The bankroll increase of 50% or close to it makes for calculations a bit more challenging.
If you start with $200 and will quit no matter the length of time at $300 or close to it, does that mean at $280?
Or does it also depend on how many outstanding wagers you still have on the table?
Because when one is winning, they really want to keep playing. This just gives more options.

If it's the middle of a roll and I have bets up, but $280 on the back rail, I'll keep playing that roll. If it sevens out, I'd ahve to asses whether the increase was enough or whether I should keep playing. And if it were already more than $300 in the middle of a roll, I'd keep playing that roll.

Quote:

Here is a link to a website that is kind of close to accurate answers bankroll and RoR.

I think I get it.

Just the same, I really shouldn't ask for answers I suspect I won't understand. Like the Wizard when learning Spanish, looking too deeply at craps gives me a headache :)

Quote: weaselman

Next time just buy in for twice as much as you usually do.

Just having a larger starting bankroll really does not mean you can win more or win more often. It easy allows for a longer playing time as long as the bets stay the same size.

It still is about your bet sizes and bankroll.

There comes a point where increasing the bankroll does allow one to hit a win goal more often, but then too much bankroll does not give one that much more of a greater chance to win, only a greater chance to lose more.