Unemployment Office can suck it

Facts

We had an employee who gave her two week's notice.

We started interviewing and identified who we would like as her replacement.

We ask employee if they would stay until replacement is hired. Employee says okay.


One week later

Employee tells board president she would like to stay if changes are made. Board president says "Ok, if we agree to the changes you request"

We tell employee we have accepted her resignation effective in one week.

We hire employee's replacement.

Unemployment office gives employee unemployment.


Unemployment office can suck it.

I guess I didn't realize you could get unemployment if you choose to leave your job. This gives me options that I didn't think I had. I wonder if I can support my family on whatever that amount would be. I could become a heroin addict or some such, and then get on the social security disability rolls. Then my lifelong dream of having society pay my way would be fulfilled. Get back to you later with more details....

Yeah, in some states you can get unemployment regardless of the circumstances for why you're no longer employed.

I'm assuming Fins is in one of those states.

If not, then the unemployement office doesn't fully understand the conditions surrounding her departure.

Quote: avargov

I guess I didn't realize you could get unemployment if you choose to leave your job. This gives me options that I didn't think I had. I wonder if I can support my family on whatever that amount would be. I could become a heroin addict or some such, and then get on the social security disability rolls. Then my lifelong dream of having society pay my way would be fulfilled. Get back to you later with more details....

You can't. But unless your employer steps in to contradict what you tell the unemployment office, they don't really know the difference. I've had to step in a few times when sales kids realized that unemployment was better than minimum wage when they couldn't successfully sell to make additional $$ through commission. Fun times...

Yes, unemployment offices can be that way. Here is my true story:

New manager at my first assignment. I mean NEW, I still don't even know the employee who is going to cause all of this. So I get there and guy is on vacation already. Asks permission from the service manager to start mid-morning the day he comes back. Service manager says "OK." Service Manager was still too new and too nice to say no. He eventually developed into an A-1 guy, stayed in management to this day after I said screw it.

So that monday the guy is a no-show. He is our only one with that skill and we have a POed customer and a POed regional manager. Regional manager takes pity on me eventually and has another location send a worker for the next day. Next day that worker shows and my guy shows. My guy sees this guy in the office and has a "WTF Conversation." We tell the vacationing employee he will be doing some other work today as we have customers to consider. So he says, "I will work today but at the end of the day you have my notice." I tell the guy he can leave now. He does.

Guy files unemployment, we give our reply and he is denied. Guy takes it to a hearing, and the arbitrator wins. Crazy scene there, guy implodes under questioning and still wins. My boss says let it go.

Weeks later we get a notice that the Commissioner of Labor files an appeal! Weird appeal in that I don't even need to show up. Eventually the guy loses as there is case law in NY that if you fire a person who gave notice of the standard 2 weeks that qualifies them, but if they give a few hours notice that is considerted "no notice."

Later the guy took me to the dept of labor for his accrued vacation. By now I am more seasoned and he lost.

It did make me a better manager and later I was able to handle hearings without the psuedo-lawyers we could hire. Heck, I even had to file myself once and it went to a telephone hearing. That company had a lawyer and I could feel this guy saying "he's good" to my then ex-employer.

Quote: FinsRule

Facts

We had an employee who gave her two week's notice.

We started interviewing and identified who we would like as her replacement.

We ask employee if they would stay until replacement is hired. Employee says okay.


One week later

Employee tells board president she would like to stay if changes are made. Board president says "Ok, if we agree to the changes you request"

We tell employee we have accepted her resignation effective in one week.

We hire employee's replacement.

Unemployment office gives employee unemployment.


Unemployment office can suck it.

I am not sure what you see as wrong with this situation. People are allowed to change their minds. It's a basic human right :)
What I don't understand is why you guys chose hiring a new, untrained and unfamiliar outside person over keeping the existing employee. Did you want to get rid of her all along? Or is there some kind of "employee loyalty" bullshit involved?
And why do you care if she gets unemployment in the first place?

The problem is that the unemployment office takes the side of the employee in pro-employee states like mine.

So even though I sent the unemployment office a copy of her resignation letter, I need to prove that no one told her she can stay. For some reason the burden of proof is on us when it's her word against ours and we have her resignation letter.

I have other crazy unemployment stories, but this one just made me mad today.

Kinda funny what you don't know when you have been gainfully employed your entire adult life. I still don't understand the whole 99 week concept. When my entire department (SBC Services) was outsourced to an Israeli company, at the same time the IT world was in a tizzy, I looked for 4 weeks, found nothing worth accepting, paid to learn how to drive a truck, and found a new career. I still make about 30k less than I did (90k vs 120k), but I will always have a job. I guess not everybody has the same work ethic. Mind boggling....

Quote: weaselman

I am not sure what you see as wrong with this situation. People are allowed to change their minds. It's a basic human right :)
What I don't understand is why you guys chose hiring a new, untrained and unfamiliar outside person over keeping the existing employee. Did you want to get rid of her all along? Or is there some kind of "employee loyalty" bullshit involved?

No, once you give your notice, you can't just change your mind. It shows you're not committed to the organization. She was a director who announced to her whole department she was leaving (which everyone was happy about). Adults can't make impulsive decisions at work like that.

Quote: FinsRule

No, once you give your notice, you can't just change your mind.

What do you mean "I can't"??? Who is to stop me?
Of course I can. And that woman you are talking about just did. So, she obviously can too.

Quote:

It shows you're not committed to the organization.

It does not need to be shown :) It's a given. I mean, of course I am not committed to organization.
I am committed to my family, to my friends, perhaps, to a lesser extent, to my country ... But "organization"? Please ... you sound like a mafia boss :)

The "organization" is the buyer of my labor, that's all. Do you expect a commitment to you from a car dealer before you buy a car from him?

Quote: FinsRule

No, once you give your notice, you can't just change your mind. It shows you're not committed to the organization. She was a director who announced to her whole department she was leaving (which everyone was happy about). Adults can't make impulsive decisions at work like that.

It happens allllll the time.

"I quit!"
"We'll pay you $15k more!"
"I'll stay!"

I'm going to agree with weaselman. Why do you care if she gets unemployment? It comes out of your UI taxes; you still have to pay the taxes every quarter anyway.

I can see the unjust enrichment argument, but this sort of thing happens all the time in Federal benefits programs. Some of the schemes would turn your stomach. That's the way it is. UI does actually help some people in the "float" period between jobs.

Ok, you obviously can change your mind, it doesn't mean we need to take you up on that offer.

And, we don't pay UI taxes. We're a not-for-profit, so we get to pay per claim. So this money literally gets taken from people who need it and given to someone who gave her notice then changed her mind when we found someone better than her.

If she wanted to stay, then why give her notice.

I am actually shocked at the response.

There's more to this story than the OP is letting us in on. I live in NY. The company I worked for moved from NY to CT but didn't fire me. They told me the my job was still there, I just had to commute 5 hours to get to it. I filed for unemployment and was denied. In retrospect it was the right decision for NY State to make, the job was technically still available. Point is, Unemployment is not that easy to get.

One month later, I was hired by another company at 4x my previous salary.

Quote: teddys

Why do you care if she gets unemployment? It comes out of your UI taxes; you still have to pay the taxes every quarter anyway.

In my state, at least, the UI taxes are based upon the number of claims, as well as the cost of the claims. Fewer claims for unemployment means less expense on my part. Fewer dollars in unemployment paid out means less expense on my part. So, it matters to me if someone files unemployment or not. I don't mind when the person is legitimate. I do mind when the person was grossly negligent.

My unemployment story has to do with an employee that was fired for stealing. At the time of the decision to fire the person, I could not definitely prove that the person had done the stealing (over $5k). But I had the very strong suspicion of it, plus the person was directly responsible for the money. Person was fired. Person went to file for unemployment, and while I argued against them receiving benefits, she ultimately won because I had no real proof of the theft or negligence. Fine, I figure that's the way it goes. At least I tried. Within a month, she had a new job, so it's not like she got the benefits for long anyway. A couple of months later, new evidence comes to light, which proves the individual stole the money. I turn over all information and witnesses to the police, and they bring her up on charges. I don't know the details, but apparently under questioning, she cracks and admits to everything. She signs a plea agreement and is charged with a felony. No jail time. Her new employer fires her because she is in a position that handles money and they are uncomfortable with it. She files for unemployment again. Because she worked for me for the majority of the 12 months prior to her filing (the second time), they come to me to find out what her salary was. I explain to them that I don't feel she should receive unemployment as I had fired her for negligence, which turned out to be proven. However, the unemployment laws state that a person's eligibility for unemployment is only based upon why she was terminated from her previous employer, which was the other company. And since they didn't terminate her for negligence, she's eligible for unemployment. But, since she only worked there for a couple of months, the majority of her unemployment benefit was being determined by her employment by me, and resulted in my UI taxes going up.

The socialistic protections that our governments provide are there for a reason, and I understand all that, and support them. However, just like with the OP, it does mean that there are times when something that happens just irks the heck out of us.

Quote: s2dbaker

There's more to this story than the OP is letting us in on.

LOL. As an HR director, whenever I tell stories, I hear that a lot. There must be something else going on. Nope, crazy things happen.

Like the illegal aliens we fired that applied for unemployment. You'd think after the government told them they were illegal, they wouldn't apply for government benefits, but no, they do.

Quote: FinsRule

Like the illegal aliens we fired that applied for unemployment. You'd think after the government told them they were illegal, they wouldn't apply for government benefits, but no, they do.

I'm scared to ask...was that claim approved?

Quote: FinsRule

And, we don't pay UI taxes. We're a not-for-profit, so we get to pay per claim. So this money literally gets taken from people who need it and given to someone who gave her notice then changed her mind when we found someone better than her.

I work for a nonprofit and we pay UI - federal AND state. I'd like to know how we can wriggle out of those burdens.

Then again, maybe not. Self-insuring this seems to be like self-insuring anything else - it looks good until it hits the fan, and then it doesn't look so good.

Quote: FinsRule

The problem is that the unemployment office takes the side of the employee in pro-employee states like mine.

So even though I sent the unemployment office a copy of her resignation letter, I need to prove that no one told her she can stay. For some reason the burden of proof is on us when it's her word against ours and we have her resignation letter.

I have other crazy unemployment stories, but this one just made me mad today.

what state?

Quote: rdw4potus

I'm scared to ask...was that claim approved?

No, but the unemployment office gave me the 3rd degree. Them - "What misconduct did these employees do" Me - "They are not legal to work in the US, and they said they were" Them - "Do you have a policy against that?" Me - "Excuse me, what?"

Illinois at its finest. Our state is completely broke by the way....

Quote: FinsRule

Them - "Do you have a policy against that?" Me - "Excuse me, what?"

Do you happen to know the best way to get diet coke spray off of my monitors? LOL!!!

Quote: FinsRule

Illinois at its finest. Our state is completely broke by the way....

Agreed.... I lived there for 8 years, and I did NOT vote for Blagojavich... just saying...

Anyways, it's unfortunate that semantics get into unemployment decisions. Chances are in Illinois she would have gotten unemployment regardless. However, she was smart to put the "decision" in your hands. I know a BUNCH of people who have done that, and I tried that myself when I worked for Sears (unfortunately, they kept me on.... grrr...).

Quote: teddys

I'm going to agree with weaselman. Why do you care if she gets unemployment? It comes out of your UI taxes; you still have to pay the taxes every quarter anyway.

Why do we care.....because the UI Benefit money doesn't grow on trees!

Somewhere the folks out there working for a living and/or their employers providing jobs for their employees pay for the 99 weeks of UI benefits via increased UI Premiums or additional state taxes.

Quote: Paradigm

Why do we care.....because the UI Benefit money doesn't grow on trees!

Somewhere the folks out there working for a living and/or their employers providing jobs for their employees pay for the 99 weeks of UI benefits via increased UI Premiums or additional state taxes.

Exactly. I'm all for unemployment. For people that deserve it.

Quote: FinsRule

Exactly. I'm all for unemployment. For people that deserve it.

And who are "committed to the organization"!

Admit it, you guys wanted to get rid of her all along, but did not want to be on the hook for unemployment. She played you, and now you are mad. You win some, you lose some, that's life.

Quote: avargov

I still make about 30k less than I did (90k vs 120k), but I will always have a job. I guess not everybody has the same work ethic. Mind boggling....

That's arrogant beyond mind-boggling.
I'm not even going to try and explain, because it's something everyone else understands. Please post again after you have faced an actual decision.
And, no, thank you, I am comfortable enough (thanks largely to the cards), I just manage not to let it go to my head.

Quote: FinsRule

Our state is completely broke by the way....

So is California...coincidence?

Quote: P90

Quote: avargov

I still make about 30k less than I did (90k vs 120k), but I will always have a job. I guess not everybody has the same work ethic. Mind boggling....

That's arrogant beyond mind-boggling.
I'm not even going to try and explain, because it's something everyone else understands. Please post again after you have faced an actual decision.
And, no, thank you, I am comfortable enough (thanks largely to the cards), I just manage not to let it go to my head.

Listen pal, it took eight years of working my frigging ass off to get to that figure. I didn't start driving at that wage. First year I made 28k. The point is with hard work, great sacrifice, and work ethic, you don't have to sit on your ass for 99 weeks crying over how you can't find a job. There are plenty of jobs, and I am proud of what I make. There have been times I haven't seen my family for 3 months at a time. So I don't think it is arrogant at all.

Now, claiming to make a living at cards....different story....