AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
Joined: Jan 5, 2012
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May 14th, 2012 at 6:03:33 PM permalink
Quote: AcesAndEights

Quote: Wizard

Be careful with your Hawaiian shirt and Darth Vader uniform comments. I just got my license to carry a concealed weapon today, and I just might be packing on Saturday.


Congrats Wiz, and also what a coincidence as I just got my WA state CPL (Concealed Pistol License is what they call it here) yesterday. Although according to this graph (not guaranteeing it's accurate), that wouldn't allow me to carry in NV. I don't even own a handgun yet though, I'm still test-shooting a bunch of stuff and trying to find out what's the best fit for me. If you don't mind me asking, what is going to be your regular carry gun?


I'm back at home and decided to start a new thread. One of my new year's resolutions this year was to exercise my 2nd amendment rights. I shot guns occasionally growing up but didn't feel entirely comfortable just going out and buying one, so I took a 2 night "Introductory Handgun" course at a local shooting range that covered basic gun safety, handling, marksmanship, etc. I'm now trying to decide what to purchase. I've gone back twice to rent some of their guns and test fire them. I think I've decided on getting an XDM .40S&W as my first gun. It's a little bulky to carry, but I wouldn't feel comfortable carrying concealed right now anyway. Later on I may get something a bit more compact, like a Glock 19 or Glock 23, or one of the XDM compact models.

Anyway, generic thread for gun discussions: anyone else a gun enthusiast? What do you have? Any other concealed-carry folks on the board?
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
EvenBob
EvenBob
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May 14th, 2012 at 6:33:11 PM permalink
The Wiz said he was going to pack over the weekend
at WoVcon, but we've heard no stories of any gun play
yet.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
Face
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Face
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May 14th, 2012 at 6:35:42 PM permalink
Where to begin?

"Introductory Handgun" courses, by and large (and IMO) are severely lacking. It's a good start, but most people stop right there. Please don't stop there. Get to the range, get with other shooters, learn the ins and outs of carrying and operation. IMO, you shouldn't carry "semi-seriously". If you're not serious, you shouldn't carry at all.

Let's start with the purchase. There's a million types of guns, in all calibers, frame sizes, applications, etc. First question, what are your plans for it? A city boy looking for protection can get away with guns X-Z, but a country bumpkin like myself who doesn't have to worry about complete concealment and needs a gun big enough for bear might need guns A-C. Match the gun to your purpose.

I currently have 5 handguns, and every one has a purpose. My main protection weapon is a Glock 22RTF tactical model in .40cal. This is my everyday carry. I spend a lot of time in the woods and it's big enough to make sure I come home from a bear encounter, and since it's a Glock, I don't have to worry much about weather. It's mostly composite, so rain doesn't hurt it, and since it has so few working parts and is easy to disassemble and clean, I don't have to worry about getting it dirty. Hiking, fishing, hunting, 4wheeling, I never have to worry.

The drawback is it's full sized and I have difficulty in complete concealment. That's no problem in the woods, but what about the city? For the city, I have an AMT MAGII in .22mag. All I have to worry about is people, and a .22mag, although "small", will give pause to any would be assailant. Plus it's quite a bit smaller than my Glock and I can conceal it easily in an inside-the-waistband holster, in a hoody pouch, or even a jacket pocket.

Whatever you choose, once you get it, Shoot It A Lot. Handgun shooting is a difficult skill, one that will take 1,000's of rounds to get comfortable with (that reminds me, buy a caliber you can afford to shoot a lot of ;)) Look at Protection shooting as graduate level Handgun shooting. Practice often, and in as many ways as possible. Fire from standing, fire from side, fire one handed, fire from kneel, fire from prone. Practice drawing from holster and firing with an empty gun. Practice cocking the gun with one hand. Take it apart and put it back together. Your gun should feel as common in use as a ballpoint pen.

This is kind of broad, so feel free to ask follow up questions. I love talking guns. You might even pull ol' vert out of the woodwork and get him posting again ;)
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AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
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May 14th, 2012 at 6:41:14 PM permalink
Quote: Face

Where to begin?

"Introductory Handgun" courses, by and large (and IMO) are severely lacking. It's a good start, but most people stop right there. Please don't stop there. Get to the range, get with other shooters, learn the ins and outs of carrying and operation. IMO, you shouldn't carry "semi-seriously". If you're not serious, you shouldn't carry at all.

Let's start with the purchase. There's a million types of guns, in all calibers, frame sizes, applications, etc. First question, what are your plans for it? A city boy looking for protection can get away with guns X-Z, but a country bumpkin like myself who doesn't have to worry about complete concealment and needs a gun big enough for bear might need guns A-C. Match the gun to your purpose.

I currently have 5 handguns, and every one has a purpose. My main protection weapon is a Glock 22RTF tactical model in .40cal. This is my everyday carry. I spend a lot of time in the woods and it's big enough to make sure I come home from a bear encounter, and since it's a Glock, I don't have to worry much about weather. It's mostly composite, so rain doesn't hurt it, and since it has so few working parts and is easy to disassemble and clean, I don't have to worry about getting it dirty. Hiking, fishing, hunting, 4wheeling, I never have to worry.

The drawback is it's full sized and I have difficulty in complete concealment. That's no problem in the woods, but what about the city? For the city, I have an AMT MAGII in .22mag. All I have to worry about is people, and a .22mag, although "small", will give pause to any would be assailant. Plus it's quite a bit smaller than my Glock and I can conceal it easily in an inside-the-waistband holster, in a hoody pouch, or even a jacket pocket.

Whatever you choose, once you get it, Shoot It A Lot. Handgun shooting is a difficult skill, one that will take 1,000's of rounds to get comfortable with (that reminds me, buy a caliber you can afford to shoot a lot of ;)) Look at Protection shooting as graduate level Handgun shooting. Practice often, and in as many ways as possible. Fire from standing, fire from side, fire one handed, fire from kneel, fire from prone. Practice drawing from holster and firing with an empty gun. Practice cocking the gun with one hand. Take it apart and put it back together. Your gun should feel as common in use as a ballpoint pen.

This is kind of broad, so feel free to ask follow up questions. I love talking guns. You might even pull ol' vert out of the woodwork and get him posting again ;)


Awesome, I was hoping there would be a few enthusiasts lurking around here, thanks Face!

I've gotten very similar advice from everyone else and I agree with everything you said. I got the CPL now just because I wanted to have it, but I definitely won't be carrying until I'm 100% comfortable with it. I will definitely be getting further instruction, but most courses beyond the "introduction" (at least at my range) require you to have your own weapon, so I've been trying to figure out what to buy. And I will definitely shoot it a lot, once I have it.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
rainman
rainman
Joined: Mar 28, 2012
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May 14th, 2012 at 6:48:11 PM permalink
Hand guns are mostly personal preference, cliber, barrel length etc... What i will tell you is there is a noticable difference in performance between out of the box hand guns and ones that a gun smith has touched. If your buget allows for it take your brand new gun to a smith and have him tell you what he can do to improve the performance.
WongBo
WongBo
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May 14th, 2012 at 6:49:40 PM permalink
anyone carrying a gun should be fully prepared to shoot to kill.
if you draw the gun at close quarters and hesitate for even a half second
it can very easily be taken away from you and used against you.

gun disarm

also, be aware of research that finds that carrying a gun increases your likelihood of being killed by 400%+
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief. - Proverb.
EvenBob
EvenBob
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May 14th, 2012 at 6:52:35 PM permalink
I have a friend in his 70's who carries a .22 mini revolver
just like this one. He carries it his pants pocket and it
can't go off because its a revolver. He knew a lot of
wiseguys in NYC in the 50's and 60's and he says thats
what they carried. You can carry 2 or 3 of them and they're
so small nobody knows you have them. He says carrying
big handguns in shoulder holsters is movie stuff. You want
a gun for close quarters that won't make a lot of noise.


"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
NicksGamingStuff
NicksGamingStuff
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May 14th, 2012 at 7:07:29 PM permalink
I'm pretty sure the Wiz was carrying this past weekend. My first gun was a Sig p250 I got at Bargain pawn, its a nice 9mm but has a bit of a long trigger pull. My second is a Glock 21 which is a bit large for concealed carry but its a much better gun in terms of the way it feels when I fire it, and it is more accurate. I got a nice in the waistband holder that has a built in pouch for a second magazine. I have bought about four holsters and this is the best one so far. Too bad I can't carry at work, the walk downtown at 4am is a bit creepy with all the bums and thugs I have to pass when going to the place I park about a block away.
Face
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Face
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May 14th, 2012 at 7:10:26 PM permalink
Quote: rainman

If your buget allows for it take your brand new gun to a smith and have him tell you what he can do to improve the performance.



This is true. My Sheriff buddy used to shoot competitively. His $500 shelf bought .45 had $6,000 worth of customization put into it. You can do so much to them. Of course, this was for hitting quarter sized bullseyes at 100+ yards, which is WAY out of the realm of anything you'd shoot in the course of protection.

I hope I didn't imply that you shouldn't get the gun now. In fact, in NY, after you go through the 2 year, several hundred dollar process to get a CPL, you HAVE to buy a gun within 30days or forfeit the license.

I'm not terribly familiar with the XDM, but you will run into concealment issues with the full sized unless, like me, you live off the map. I'm not saying to not buy it, but (and this probably won't be a problem) you might need to get another to suit your needs down the road. I imagine after a while you'll want another one anyways ;)

A .40's not bad, can handle just about anything in the continental US and is relatively cheap, just one cent a round more expensive than a 9mm. The .45 is closer to 5 cents more, and my 10mm is just an incredible pain in the rear to even find, let alone afford. Luckily for my checkbook, my .44mag is too big for almost everything and I'm spared the dollar-per-round fee of playing with it ;)


Quote: EvenBob

I have a friend in his 70's who carries a .22 mini revolver
just like this one. He carries it his pants pocket and it
can't go off because its a revolver. He knew a lot of
wiseguys in NYC in the 50's and 60's and he says thats
what they carried. You can carry 2 or 3 of them and they're
so small nobody knows you have them. He says carrying
big handguns in shoulder holsters is movie stuff. You want
a gun for close quarters that won't make a lot of noise.



You almost brought me to tears, EB. My grandpa had an old Derringer that looked very similar to that. About the size of my palm in .22 short, a break action, 7 shot revolver. He bought it for $1.20 in 1940. Had it all these years and gave it to me last year, I was so pumped. I also had an old .32mag I got from my late now-ex father-in-law. In the divorce, I offered the .32 back to my wife, since it was her dad's. I told her "TAKE THE ONE IN THE HOLSTER" (that was the .32). and what does she do, she takes the gun in the bag (My grandpa's Derringer). She gave it back to her mom, and her mom, being an (expletive deleted), THREW IT IN THE GARBAGE!!
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buzzpaff
buzzpaff
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May 14th, 2012 at 7:14:57 PM permalink
" Too bad I can't carry at work, the walk downtown at 4am is a bit creepy with all the bums and thugs I have to pass when going to the place I park about a block away. "

Had similar situation in downtown Baltimore many years ago. Martial arts guy at work had me carry rolled up sports section of newspaper. Rolled tight enough to act like a stick and aim for the adam's apple. Never had to, thank God.

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