Outcome(s) of the PSU scandal

This is big and the rumors say it will go much higher up. Local radio host Mark Madden says people ignored the story 6 months ago when he had it. He also says expect more to come out.

Given the timing, we can figure this will drag out well into next spring or longer. Lots of PSU administration may fall. But what do you all think will be the outcome(s)? I would hope the NCAA strips the school of plenty of football scholarships or/and even bans it from bowl play for a number of years.

Yesterday, I was willing to assume Paterno probably didn't hear enough details.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure if it's going to turn out that way. Even a roundabout hazy way to say something improper was happening, should have triggered a followup of some kind considering what was implied.

Quote: AZDuffman

Rumors say it will go much higher up.

The D.A. for Centre County, Pa., who investigated the case has been missing for more than six years. He was declared dead last year.
charley project

I don't know the details that have emerged so far, but sex abuse seems to be a very "in" crime, its a bandwagon that everyone jumps on irrespective of whether it ever took place or was consensual or decades old.

In the UK one tv star was just arrested on the testimony of a teen age girl concerning events that she now claims to have remembered having taken place when she was six.

I recall the Duke Rape Scandals and all that chanting to drown out those who questioned the evidence that any crime had been committed. I imagine it will be the same as Pennsylvania. Alot of hot air, very little hard evidence.

Hello, mega-million dollar lawsuits ... assuming the applicable statute in Pennsylvania hasn't blown.

Quote: SanchoPanza

The D.A. for Centre County, Pa., who investigated the case has been missing for more than six years. He was declared dead last year.
charley project

I had a similar thought, that maybe Mcq actually did go to the police and they said "keep quiet or you're dead." Police corruption
is pretty common, it seems to me. Corruption is very common. Money, money,.......................................................

As for penalizing the athletic program, I say NO. It's not like they were cheating to have better teams, illegal recruiting, etc.

Quote: SanchoPanza

The D.A. for Centre County, Pa., who investigated the case has been missing for more than six years. He was declared dead last year.
charley project

link fixed

Quote: odiousgambit

link fixed

Thanks, Mr. Gambit. I'll get those darned slashes down yet.

I am very familiar with the situation, and suffice it to say, the details are gruesome. If Sandusky did what he is alleged to do, there is no punishment on Earth that will serve him justice.

That being said, the NCAA really doesn't have anything to do with this. The NCAA has a set of rules regarding how programs are run, so unless the PROGRAM broke a stated rule, which at this point they did not, there should be no sanctions handed out. Perhaps there should be a program in place to remedy this, god forbid, this should ever occur again in the future.

As far as my votes, they went to #2 and #3. Civil lawsuits should be allowed after a verdict on the case has been reached. Penn State was CLEARLY liable AND negligent, and every attempt to make right with the affected families must be made. It seems like all the higher ups who should have known have been eliminated, so #2 already has occurred. I don't believe LEGALLY Paterno should serve any time... he will face his judgment soon (I give him six months to live, if that). As for McQueary, he would have been 23 or 24 at the time of event. Yes, he SHOULD have done something, but he may have been so shocked he did not know what else to do. Remember, hindsight is 20/20.

Finally, a sidebar about the victim's mothers. I know they are interviewing "anonymously" but it sickens to me to think that they are even going to the press period. I pray that they are not doing it for their "15 minutes of fame" because if they are, they are as bad as the perpetrators.

Quote: rxwine

Yesterday, I was willing to assume Paterno probably didn't hear enough details.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure if it's going to turn out that way. Even a roundabout hazy way to say something improper was happening, should have triggered a followup of some kind considering what was implied.

My initial reaction was that Mike McQueary, who supposedly saw the crime being committed should have physically intervened or called the police. While it is true that many people do not step into a fight they see between two strangers (two men, or a man and a woman), the argument there is that you might be hurt or killed yourself. In those situations it might be better to simply call the police. But it is unlikely that a physically tough man in his mid 20's would be hurt trying to stop a man approaching the age of 60.

I also think it is human nature that Mike McQuery would remember his description to Joe Paterno as being very descriptive in details. After 9 years, he is very aware that his own career and reputation is on the line.

Quote: pacomartin

But it is unlikely that a physically tough man in his mid 20's would be hurt trying to stop a man approaching the age of 60.

Criminals often carry weapons. People going about their business don't. Do the math.

But there's no excuse for not calling the police when you see a crime taking place.

Quote: pacomartin

I also think it is human nature that Mike McQuery would remember his description to Joe Paterno as being very descriptive in details. After 9 years, he is very aware that his own career and reputation is on the line.

I am going to say something I bet a lot of people are thinking. I know men and I know athletes very well from my younger days. This is my theory: I'm betting McQueary told Paterno something like " the queers are getting out of hand in the showers, it's disgusting and do something about it." He did not [I'm betting] say " there is child molestation going on." I feel I know athletes well enough to say this, but If I am right, and this is the truth, the truth will never come out.

Apologies to anyone I offended.

Quote: odiousgambit

I am going to say something I bet a lot of people are thinking. I know men and I know athletes very well from my younger days. This is my theory: I'm betting McQueary told Paterno something like " the queers are getting out of hand in the showers, it's disgusting and do something about it." He did not [I'm betting] say " there is child molestation going on." I feel I know athletes well enough to say this, but If I am right, and this is the truth, the truth will never come out.

I have never been in athletics, but based on statements EvenBob has made here I am willing to guess they attract more than their share of gays, being large groups of mostly-males. I can sort-of see what you are saying here. If I was walking down the locker room and two gays are going at it I am not going to look at it and determine the ages of the two or more involoved. I am going to get out of the area as soon as I can. Assuming Sandusky took some kind of care to at least close shower curtains, I could see how your "how it happened" might be the case.

What we have yet to see is the gay community at large circling the wagons. For years we hear how the Boy Scouts and other groups are "homophobic" for not wanting gays to be Scoutmasters, coaches, leaders, etc. This will give virtually any parent more concern. Look to see those wagons circle over the next few months.

Why would the gay community need to "circle the wagons"? This is a case of pedophilia and child abuse. It is not two consenting adults having sex in a less than private place--it is an older man abusing a child in his care. if your contention, AZ, is that McQueary might not have seen it was someone under-aged, we'd have to read the report and see what it says about that issue. If he thought it was two adults there may have been a reason it was handled the way it was. Either way, that doesn't make it a "gay" issue.

My brother in law is gay. It doesn't bring me joy that he has followed that lifestyle, but it also does not make him less trustworthy as an adult. It is something I will never understand because I like women and can't see life any other way. He is not a threat to any children any more than any other person.

Sandusky used a position of power to molest children. He is married and does not appear to be "gay"--you don't hear reports of gay adult lovers or anything related to him. If the allegations are true (and all of us need to remember there has been no trial to this point), he is a monster and needs to spend the remainder of his pathetic life in jail with inmates doing to him what they will.

If McQueary saw child sexual abuse and did not report it to the police, the DA should see if any law allows him to be prosecuted as aiding and abetting a criminal act. There is one in Texas that could almost be stretched that far--people charged with the welfare of children have a duty to report child abuse--it is a misdemeanor here. I don't care if he reported it to Joe Paterno. He was an adult and should know that crimes get reported to the police. Violations of team rules get reported to the coach. If he failed to stand up to his duties, he should be brought down hard.

As to Joe Paterno, it also depends what he knew. If he knew that this stuff happened in 1998 and helped let Sandusky go only to give him the keys to the kingdom for those camps and allow new victims, he should rot in prison, too. If he knew specifically that it was child sexual abuse in 2002 and he did nothing about it, I hope he pays a tremendous price for what has happened. IF HE KNEW he is responsible for horrors inflicted upon young men over many years.

Now...if it was not obvious and no one knew, fine. We'll see what happens from here. I have been a huge Paterno fan for many, many years (40 or so). All he did over those years cannot make anything right if he allowed this to happen on his watch. The key is ALLOWED...some things go on that are not known about everywhere...

What will the outcome be? There is no way of telling at this point.

Quote: Nareed

Criminals often carry weapons. People going about their business don't. Do the math.

But there's no excuse for not calling the police when you see a crime taking place.

I'm thinking a 60 year old man molesting a 10 year old boy in the shower is most likely in a state of undress (if not fully undressed) that would make him pretty easy to take. The guy was a football player, not some guy off the street. Sandusky is large, but he is 60 and his pants were either off or at his knees it would seem...I'd take a run at him and he is bigger than me.

Criminals carry weapons, but most pedophiles don't need weapons to commit their acts of horror.

Quote: RonC

that doesn't make it a "gay" issue.

Not in general. But it seems that the desire for young partners is a "gay" thing. There is no reason to make this thing into a condemnation of all gays, but I think the statuory-rape-prone homosexual, perhaps a very small minority, tries [sometimes with success] to hide behind the protection society wants for gays today. I think it is possible a guy like Paterno could be successfully confused about it and buffaloed by the Sandusky type. Turning this 'homosexual thing' over to the athletic director to handle might have made sense of what he understood; I'd hate to think he knew it was child molestation and felt the same way.

Quote: RonC

Sandusky ... does not appear to be "gay"

I disagree here, this seems very much to be a homosexually driven behavior to me.

Quote: odiousgambit

I disagree here, this seems very much to be a homosexually driven behavior to me.

To be homosexual is to be attracted to the same sex. A pedophile is attracted to youth more than anything, based on some reading I have done over the past few days. The youth could be either sex but if boys are easier for a man to get to, he'll likely go after the boys...

How do they get 10-yo boys in there anyways? I can imagine a boy wandering onto the campus, but being told to leave. How did he get in the stadium, and then all the way in the showers without being seen by anyone? Are these kids children or grandchildren of other employees? Did Sandusky sneak them into the showers in steamer trunks? If so, why a public area like a shower? If the kid was 'willing' in some way, why not choose a more private venue like hotel shower? Did Sandusky subconsciously want to get caught? If there have been many boys over the years, they must've spoken to someone (friends, family, etc). If any parents came forward to college staff, were the kids promised free tuition if they kept quiet? If they went to police, did police try to quell the accusations in order to avoid rocking the boat with the Mighty Penn State machine?

This reminds me of how Michael Jackson got away with it for so many years, by paying off parents with cars, trips to Neverland, celebrity connections, etc.

Quote: RonC

He is married and does not appear to be "gay"

Huh? Molesting young boys does not appear to be "gay behavior" to you? I think it meets both the appearance and dictionary definitions both.

Quote: Nareed

Criminals often carry weapons. People going about their business don't. Do the math.

But there's no excuse for not calling the police when you see a crime taking place.

Maybe the police didn't give a sh-t, just as all the other authority figures.

Quote: zippyboy

How do they get 10-yo boys in there anyways?

Wasn't it that Sandusky's "disadvantaged youth" The Second Mile foundation had them there to use the facilities?

Quote: AZDuffman

Huh? Molesting young boys does not appear to be "gay behavior" to you? I think it meets both the appearance and dictionary definitions both.

Okay, if you want to just make this another way to bash gays, so be it.

The dictionary says that a pedophile is "a person who is sexually attracted to children"--and some of the things I read seem to say that the victim may be either sex depending on who the pedophile finds available.

I am not saying he is not "gay"...I am just saying that there appears to be no link to him and being "gay" as far as the presence of stories about other adult partners or anything of that sort.

He is a predator...to just say something about it being gay behavior is to lump it in with a type of behavior I don't understand but that has nothing to do with molesting children. To be gay is not be a child molester. "Gays" in general do not force themselves on non-gays.

Collegiate athletics raises huge amounts in donations and gambling on collegiate athletics raises huge amounts as well.

Money will drive the action.

The missing DA had searches on his home computer about missing hard drives and water. If this is so, he probably wasn't killed or at least did not commit suicide.

Pedophiles, whether homosexually motivated or motivated by simple power desires are often entrenched in powerful segments of society such as police, prosecutors, etc.. One such segment just might be college athletics, I don't know. Money and power trumps ethics. Always has, always will.

Quote: RonC

Criminals carry weapons, but most pedophiles don't need weapons to commit their acts of horror.

I've no idea. What I mean is that if you're unarmed, you should think twice before rushing to the aid of a crime victim because the criminal, be it a child molester, rapist, robber, etc, may carry a weapon, be it a gun, knife, billy club, etc. But you should call the police immediately.

Quote: zippyboy

How do they get 10-yo boys in there anyways?

I imagine it appeared to be a big brother relationship most of time, coach tossing the football, showing him around. That was the cover story.

Quote: Nareed

I've no idea. What I mean is that if you're unarmed, you should think twice before rushing to the aid of a crime victim because the criminal, be it a child molester, rapist, robber, etc, may carry a weapon, be it a gun, knife, billy club, etc. But you should call the police immediately.

I understand that you should think twice...but I'd say a child molester having sex in the shower with a young boy is worth me taking a chance on injury by trying to end the abuse right then. I just don't think I could live with the fact that I saw a man rape a boy and, oh golly, I reported it to the coach.

Sometimes we need to step up...if there is a lesson in this whole thing, it is that NO ONE stepped up in a timely manner. No one.

Quote: odiousgambit

Not in general. But it seems that the desire for young partners is a "gay" thing.

Marrying really young girls has been a thing all over the world including the U.S. until state laws in a lot of states have changed.

I'm not sure getting down into somewhere below 10 years of age, gay, straight, or whatever has ever held up very well in a lot of places. But even that has happened with some communities.

Quote: Nareed

I've no idea. What I mean is that if you're unarmed, you should think twice before rushing to the aid of a crime victim because the criminal, be it a child molester, rapist, robber, etc, may carry a weapon, be it a gun, knife, billy club, etc. But you should call the police immediately.

I think you are talking about a crime on the street. We are talking about a 60 year old man and a 10 year old boy in a shower. But, even granting your argument, this is not the case of something you report up a chain of command. It's a crime in progress. Do you think the guy is going to pull a gun out of his butt?

Had he done that, then the investigation would have happened in 2002. It is possible that Jerry Sandusky was suspected of these crimes before. Many people were surprised by his fall from grace in 1999, when he was relieved of his full time duties, when he was thought to be Joe Paterno's successor.

Had Mike M. called the police in 2002, then that possibility would have been investigated back then.

As a side note:
Discussions of sexual preference do not belong in this thread. There is no reason that someone in 21st century North America should confuse sexual preference and pedophilia. I am including gay, straight, or obsession with 18 year olds by much older people.

Quote: pacomartin

I think you are talking about a crime on the street. We are talking about a 60 year old man and a 10 year old boy in a shower. But, even granting your argument, this is not the case of something you report up a chain of command. It's a crime in progress. Do you think the guy is going to pull a gun out of his butt?

You'd be surprise where a naked man can hide a sharp weapon. But that's beside the point. He might have had one handy, too, or he might have further hurt the boy.

As to the chain of command, the proper action would have been to call the police right then. Not report to someone else. I said as much. If you see a crime being committed, even if you can do something about it, call the police.

Weird way to start a post, but I am an athelete and I've showered with hundreds of men hundreds of times. You can bet your ass that if ever I seen something sexual going on it would be noticed, and I think I can speak for all of my teammates as well. Noticing it would be followed by a "WTF are you doing? Take that $%@& somewhere else", and that goes for a hetero encounter as well. It's not a gay thing, it's a propriety thing. While there may be some who might avert their eyes at the horror of public gayness and pretend it didn't happen, I would think that would be a minority. 99.9% of PDA, whether gay or straight, is something I don't wish to see, but I still see it when it's there.

If someone saw these two, I can't think of a way you couldn't notice one was a minor. It's not like you walked into the wrong room of a house and intereupted some privacy, it was a public shower. You can't not see. And if you saw, there is no excuse for not kicking that old man in the balls so hard you lift him off his feet. That whole "personal safety" arguement is valid if you see a gang mugging in a dark alley. It does not compute for a lone man in a locker room on school grounds.

Every person who allowed this to happen, from the actual guy performing it, to those who saw and did nothing, to those who covered it up, should burn. I don't necessarily think the athletics as a whole should be punished, but if they suffer as a result, then so be it. I'd rather see a sport suffer due to fall out, then for people to get off light because of a damn game.

Well, its a very political topic these days but there have been men who've attacked young girls on airplanes? Where were they going to run to? Currently child sex abuse and DUIs are "biggie" crimes but then of course sports betting and recruiting scandals often prove that athletics is a "biggie" business.

Quote: RonC

Okay, if you want to just make this another way to bash gays, so be it.

Not "bashing" anyone. Merely making a point. We hear all the time that there "should be no reason gays can't be boy scout leaders" or in all kinds of other situations with pre to late-teen boys. I am stating that this is a counterpoint and wondering how long until gay activists start circling the wagons because it makes the point that we to have gay males in a leadership position in youth groups is an unhealthy thing.

Quote:

He is a predator...to just say something about it being gay behavior is to lump it in with a type of behavior I don't understand but that has nothing to do with molesting children. To be gay is not be a child molester. "Gays" in general do not force themselves on non-gays.

Not sure how you define either forcing themselves or the term in general. I think a gay male is just as likely as a sgtraight male to use a position of authority to exert sexual favors from underlings he preceives to be weak/receptive/some other reason they will accept. Look at how many wrestlers Pat Patterson used his influence over to get them to submit to him, young boys as well.

Quote: AZDuffman

I think a gay male is just as likely as a sgtraight male to use a position of authority to exert sexual favors from underlings he preceives to be weak/receptive/some other reason they will accept.

I think someone is projecting.

Child molesters are not typical members of the criminal population. They are not likely violent (except in their sex acts). Most people don't understand that, but it should have been reported. A tragedy.

As for the "gay community" round up, it's commonly known that girls are molested at twice the rate that boys are, but that boys report far less than girls do. 70 to 90% of offenders are family members.

If you want to do the math, given that about 99% of offenders are men and boys are molested at 1/2 the rate of girls, that would infer that 1/3rd of the offenses are "gay" offenses and therefore gays were more likely to be pedophiles. However, that is making the assumption that it is a homosexual tendency that is driving the offense.

However, there are plenty of studies out there (Groth and Birnbaum, 1978, Jenny et Al, 1994, Freund et al, 1989) that show a negative hypothesis between homosexuality and molestation. These scientific studies are studies of the relationships between victims and their perpetrators and in all case, a very small percentage of the molesters were gay or bisexual. The Family Research Council disagrees, but that study has been debunked, thoroughly.

The fact is that pedophilia has nothing to do with sex. It has to do with POWER and AGE. The offenders are fixated with children. Sexuality doesn't matter.

Of course there's a huge number of people who believe that gays should not be in any sort of power position because they're more likely to abuse. But the studies show that is completely false, so I hope that the gay community does do its roundup.

Quote: RonC

To be homosexual is to be attracted to the same sex. A pedophile is attracted to youth more than anything, based on some reading I have done over the past few days. The youth could be either sex but if boys are easier for a man to get to, he'll likely go after the boys...

So is that why Socrates said "women are for bearing children but young boys are for love"?

Quote: Face

Weird way to start a post, but I am an athelete and I've showered with hundreds of men hundreds of times. You can bet your ass that if ever I seen something sexual going on it would be noticed, and I think I can speak for all of my teammates as well. Noticing it would be followed by a "WTF are you doing? Take that $%@& somewhere else", and that goes for a hetero encounter as well. It's not a gay thing, it's a propriety thing. While there may be some who might avert their eyes at the horror or public gayness and pretend it didn't happen, I would think that would be a minority. 99.9% of PDA, whether gay or straight, is something I don't wish to see, but I still see it when it's there.

If someone saw these two, I can't think of a way you couldn't notice one was a minor. It's not like you walked into the wrong room of a house and intereupted some privacy, it was a public shower. You can't not see. And if you saw, there is no excuse for not kicking that old man in the balls so hard you lift him off his feet. That whole "personal safety" arguement is valid if you see a gang mugging in a dark alley. It does not compute for a lone man in a locker room on school grounds.

Every person who allowed this to happen, from the actual guy performing it, to those who saw and did nothing, to those who covered it up, should burn. I don't necessarily think the athletics as a whole should be punished, but if they suffer as a result, then so be it. I'd rather see a sport suffer due to fall out, then for people to get off light because of a damn game.

Once again Face, you sum it nicely.

This isn't where you go to the police at the time. You deal with the situation there (old man soaping up a visiting student in the showers) by making it clear that this behaviour is NOT acceptable right now and there. Half the battle is making it clear you KNOW it was occurring. Then you to the police, the school authorities and whoever else. Spending time going to the police while someone is being molested allows that crime to continue and it's not like the police will be there in 30 seconds.

I'm willing to be dollars to donuts that making it clear to the offender he should stop right now would end the incident there and then. And then we can get into the police, statements, excuses and all the BS that would be the excuses from the pedophile.

As for gay/straight... whatever... this doesn't matter at all. Stopping out gay men from being involved in youth activities I would suspect does nothing to reduce the incidence of abuse. It's nothing to do with this case, and I'm not sure it's relevant at all. It's a different debate to say that gay men are not appropriate role models for young boys (an argument I don not agree with at all) but that's nothing to do with protecting children from abuse (hell, the Catholic scandal was celibate men of god).

I still would think there will be Hot Air thundered about but that over time speeches about Courts of Law and Evidence will be penned and it will all blow over as "allegations" and "shameful neglect" but life goes on and betting goes on as usual. Socrates is dead, grand jury reports are humungous and boring, time goes by, press agents earn their money ... although this is probably now at the stage of crisis managers earning millions. And life will go on with no teams at any penalty at all. Its football. Its sacred.

Quote: FleaStiff

And life will go on with no teams at any penalty at all. Its football. Its sacred.

Only at institutions where athletics take precedence over academics.

Quote: SanchoPanza

Only at institutions where athletics take precedence over academics.

Ssssh. Don't tell anyone ... but that's all of 'em!

Quote: SanchoPanza

Only at institutions where athletics take precedence over academics.

The problem has sure been around a long time: the corruption caused by football in particular to such institutions is hilariously explored in the Marx Bro's movie Horse Feathers, 1932

Quote: FleaStiff

Ssssh. Don't tell anyone ... but that's all of 'em!

Not quite. Just the big ones in the big conferences. Others from the Ivy League (cq) to hundreds of smaller schools can and do field quite full athletic programs as a way to enhance the students' experience. And that is done without building monster stadiums, without all the concomitant massive bands, over-the-top cheerleading displays, corrupt recruiting, orgies and shameless fund raising.

Okay, I've been off for a couple of days, but I want to bring everything in for a bit on some ideas that have been brought up.

First and foremost, GAY PEOPLE ARE NOT NECESSARILY PEDOPHILES!! Sandusky doesn't have to be gay to be a pedophile and the sex of the victims has nothing to do with it. This is either a case of obsession with youth or a feeling of dominance over another. Either way, his actions do not necessarily represent a desire to be with men. Any indication of that (AZDuffman) is an ignorance to the problem and is bordering on being offensive speech.

Second, to McQueary's action (or lack thereof), you have to remember he was a 20-some year old kid at the time. This is by no means a justification for what he did or didn't do. But think of it in his terms... he witnessed something that could bring down the legacy of a program like Penn State. The world was on his shoulders, and he did what he legally had to do; inform his boss of the situation. This OBVIOUSLY was the wrong decision but if you had information that could cause an entire state and possibly an entire population (the college football world) to hate you, would you do the right thing? Yes, he made the wrong decision, and I won't even try to argue otherwise, but I understand how he came to the decision he did.

Third, college athletics ARE bigger than the institutions that support them, especially the world of college football. Other than men's college basketball, and FEW other exceptions (UConn Women's BB perhaps), college FB rules the and dominates the world of athletics and sadly the education provided at said universities. There are exceptions as Sancho brought up, but if the school has a football team, then you can assume it's funding a bunch of other programs. Penn State will unquestionably suffer for years in other programs because of the actions of one man.

Quote: Tiltpoul

GAY PEOPLE ARE NOT NECESSARILY PEDOPHILES!!

Certainly not, and I don't think anyone said that. But to view this incident as anything other than homosexual sex, you have to be drinking some kind of kool-aid.

Quote: Tiltpoul

Sandusky doesn't have to be gay to be a pedophile

I'll accept that I know little about pedophilia, happily. I'll also accept that this incident should not lead to gay bashing. But I am on the record for saying that I bet it explains Paterno's inaction, that the indecent activities were presented to him as gays being gay, and he didnt know how to handle that. He figured it's a touchy issue! I really have to think that he would have forcefully prevented any further child molestation if he understood that was what it was. My theory is all.

Quote: Tiltpoul

Second, to McQueary's action (or lack thereof), you have to remember he was a 20-some year old kid at the time. This is by no means a justification for what he did or didn't do. But think of it in his terms... he witnessed something that could bring down the legacy of a program like Penn State. The world was on his shoulders, and he did what he legally had to do; inform his boss of the situation. This OBVIOUSLY was the wrong decision but if you had information that could cause an entire state and possibly an entire population (the college football world) to hate you, would you do the right thing? Yes, he made the wrong decision, and I won't even try to argue otherwise, but I understand how he came to the decision he did.

I don't know what he had a legal obligation to do--I doubt he had one to report the incident to Coach Paterno and I've not seen a law that was violated in not reporting to the police. I'm sorry, but if he really saw a grown man having sex with a 10 year old and essentially did nothing about it, he failed the child miserably. He was young but we lock people younger than him up for life all the time for crimes--are you willing to say they shouldn't be accountable for their actions? Once he knew Penn State did not report it to the police--and there would have been a flurry of activity at that time if they had--he had a responsibility to that child that he did not fulfill.

If what he saw was more ambiguous than actually seeing the child, that might muddy the water in his favor.

Quote: Tiltpoul

Penn State will unquestionably suffer for years in other programs because of the actions of one man.

I disagree. They will suffer for years because of the actions of many men. I am not sure which ones exactly but, had they rooted the problem out properly and reported things that were illegal to the police, the program would have taken a hit at the time and Paterno would still be the head coach.

They allowed a cancer to grow instead of getting it treated...that is a lesson for all the larger-than-life programs out there.

Quote: RonC

I don't know what he had a legal obligation to do.

The reality is that Jerry Sandusky worked for 30 years as a coach for Penn State, from the age of 25 to 55, and then he retired. At this point Joe Paterno had been head coach for 33 years and assistant coach for 15 years before that.

The age of 55 is pretty young to retire, especially if he could have been the head coach at some other school. Or he was still in line to take over Joe Paterno's position.

I am afraid that there is a very dark secret that people are trying to hide. Something happened that led to Jerry Sandusky's retirement in 1999. Whoever was involved is probably still in power at PSU. I think that they are desperately trying to conceal the fact that he should have been barred from school grounds long before 2002.

Quote: odiousgambit

Certainly not, and I don't think anyone said that. But to view this incident as anything other than homosexual sex, you have to be drinking some kind of kool-aid.

The way I read some posts on this thread there were people who wanted to believe that. I was merely trying to clear a record for those people.

Quote: odiousgambit

I'll accept that I know little about pedophilia, happily. I'll also accept that this incident should not lead to gay bashing. But I am on the record for saying that I bet it explains Paterno's inaction, that the indecent activities were presented to him as gays being gay, and he didnt know how to handle that. He figured it's a touchy issue! I really have to think that he would have forcefully prevented any further child molestation if he understood that was what it was. My theory is all.

Actually, I have a theory on that as well, and it's very similar position as yours. Paterno was raised in a generation where these kinds of things should just be ignored, or at best, be passed onto somebody else who can handle the situation. This is no justification; Paterno SHOULD have taken it upon himself to make sure children were not in any danger. That being said, this is a man who embraced traditional ways for years... he probably didn't think at the time there was anything wrong.

Then again, I do think there is a deeper scandal brewing. As I said, this will rock Penn State to the core, and its sad to think this should have been prevented a long time ago.

Quote: Tiltpoul

Then again, I do think there is a deeper scandal brewing.

And it's already way way worse than it needed to be even without anything more.

Quote: Tiltpoul

Then again, I do think there is a deeper scandal brewing. As I said, this will rock Penn State to the core, and its sad to think this should have been prevented a long time ago.

I don't think it will involve rock and roll. Sex, drugs and gambling probably. Throw in some financial management contracts and stir until boiling.

Quote: Tiltpoul

Then again, I do think there is a deeper scandal brewing. As I said, this will rock Penn State to the core, and its sad to think this should have been prevented a long time ago.

I heard more on my way home... nearly drove my truck off the road.

First was a caller I wanted to punch right in the face, who opined that maybe the witnessess should be forgiven due to "the confusion nowadays with NAMBLA and society" and understanding how people can have difficulty seeing the line from right and wrong (w.t.F?!). The host went on to report that a janitor testified before the Grand Jury and admitted "observing the coach with a young boy...the coach had the boy pinned against the wall and was (fellating) him". Any confusion of what people "think" they may have seen goes right out the door with this. It happened, and nothing was done about it.

Further, it was reported that some of the abuse took place in the coaches home, which he SHARES with his WIFE. I don't know about you guys, but my wife knows when I didn't sweep properly, when I walk inside with my shoes on, when I don't rinse a washcloth... you telling me this lady knew NOTHING about this abuse?

I have no words.... at least none fit for a non-FSZ thread....