sales figures: Nissan Leaf & Chevy Volt
September 8th, 2012 at 7:46:43 PM
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Quote: FaceI have a WT. 4,100lbs and 19 mpg =/
About what the ones in my fleet were like. Hard to get a smaller motor in them since we loaded them up pretty good. Overloaded them in many respects.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
September 8th, 2012 at 7:51:07 PM
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" In the end, the automakers sell what sells. "
You left off one word. AMEN
You left off one word. AMEN
September 8th, 2012 at 8:12:36 PM
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Quote: FaceThis is the the only reason I can somewhat appreciate the electric movement. Your numbers are based on "today". Who knows what the future holds. I can appreciate them trying to suss out range and power issues now, when it's not a big deal, as opposed to later, when it's too late.
That's why I did the second calculation with the magic fission device. Gasoline needs to more than double. The problem is that it is also very unlikely that gasoline will increase that high, and electricity won't also decrease.
But clearly the Prius involves much less capital outlay than the Chevy Volt. A small Prius C has a MSRP: $18,950 - $23,230, so it might not be that much more expensive than the equivalent gasoline power car. Unlike the Chevy Volt which costs $20K more than the Chevy Eco. I suspect that Prius C will have almost no resale value at all in 6 years.
September 8th, 2012 at 9:32:11 PM
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Quote: pacomartinI suspect that Prius C will have almost no resale value at all in 6 years.
Huh? Blue Book for a 2005 Prius ranges from $8,000 to $9,000 depending on features, condition, mileage, zip code, etc. Granted, the new Prius C is smaller than an '05 Prius, but I suspect the C will have at least some retail value 6 years from now.
September 9th, 2012 at 4:43:19 AM
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A VW TDi might get 50-55 MPG highway in the newer models, 55-60 MPG in the older models. Mine is 10 years old still gets 57-58 MPG on longer trips. Best range I've had is 820 miles. I bought it w/o regard to fuel price as I had a 100 mi/day RT commute. When new Diesel was $1.25/gal, and now its at least triple.
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
September 9th, 2012 at 6:45:11 AM
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Quote: AZDuffmanGas spent idling at a traffic light is 100% wasted and gives 0 MPG... So we waste gas idling.
Totally true. But at least red lights are necessary. What's completely unnecessary are road tolls. The toll collection booths at the Golden Gate Bridge create an enormous traffic jam every morning, with tens of thousands of cars idling, wasting everyone's time and ga$oline. Road tolls are a government policy which creates air pollution and needless traffic jams that benefit no one. I've been stuck in that ridiculous Golden Gate traffic jam, and I can't think of a tax I hate more.
Quote: AZDuffmanI shut off the engine at every traffic light.
Someone told me that because a tiny bit of gas is wasted during ignition, this strategy is only worthwhile if the red light will last for more than 10 seconds. (I have no idea if this is correct.) But I occasionally do this at intersections I'm familiar with, if I know I'll be sitting there for a while.
September 9th, 2012 at 3:28:16 PM
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Quote: reno
Someone told me that because a tiny bit of gas is wasted during ignition, this strategy is only worthwhile if the red light will last for more than 10 seconds. (I have no idea if this is correct.) But I occasionally do this at intersections I'm familiar with, if I know I'll be sitting there for a while.
This was true back when cars had carburators. Now any wasted gas would be so small as not to matter, just a poof of the fuel injector.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
September 10th, 2012 at 6:47:58 AM
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Looks like the Volt is a bgger flop than first thought.
Also looks like the only hybrid/electric coming close to doing well is the Prius.
Also looks like the only hybrid/electric coming close to doing well is the Prius.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
September 10th, 2012 at 7:29:52 AM
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Quote: AZDuffmanAlso looks like the only hybrid/electric coming close to doing well is the Prius.
"Coming close?" As I mentioned in a previous post, Toyota sold 247,000 Priuses (worldwide) in the first quarter of 2012, making it the 3rd most popular car in the world, as measured by sales volume. (Only the Toyota Corolla or Ford Focus had higher sales.) The Reuters article mentioned that Toyota spent $10 billion on the Prius, but it sounds like the investment has paid off.
September 10th, 2012 at 7:55:12 AM
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Quote: reno"Coming close?" As I mentioned in a previous post, Toyota sold 247,000 Priuses (worldwide) in the first quarter of 2012, making it the 3rd most popular car in the world, as measured by sales volume. (Only the Toyota Corolla or Ford Focus had higher sales.) The Reuters article mentioned that Toyota spent $10 billion on the Prius, but it sounds like the investment has paid off.
I mean "coming close" financially. Sales does not equal success, profit does.
$10MMM is a lot of development to pay for, though Toyota has probably gotten there.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
September 10th, 2012 at 10:19:04 AM
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Quote: AZDuffmanAlso looks like the only hybrid/electric coming close to doing well is the Prius.
So it costs more to produce a Chevy Volt then the selling price of a (non plug in) Prius. And that is not even including the CONSIDERABLE development and tooling costs.
September 20th, 2012 at 11:32:39 AM
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Quote: AZDuffmanLooks like the Volt is a bgger flop than first thought.
Also looks like the only hybrid/electric coming close to doing well is the Prius.
The Reuters article in the link above has been disputed here and here. GM says that the technology developed for the Volt has been integrated into other GM vehicles such as the Cadillac ELR. That's what I've always thought about the $10 billion that Toyota spent in R&D to create the Prius. Toyota now uses hybrid technology in other Toyota vehicles besides the Prius.
September 20th, 2012 at 12:06:12 PM
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Quote: renoQuote: AZDuffmanLooks like the Volt is a bgger flop than first thought.
Also looks like the only hybrid/electric coming close to doing well is the Prius.
The Reuters article in the link above has been disputed here and here. GM says that the technology developed for the Volt has been integrated into other GM vehicles such as the Cadillac ELR. That's what I've always thought about the $10 billion that Toyota spent in R&D to create the Prius. Toyota now uses hybrid technology in other Toyota vehicles besides the Prius.
Of course they will dispute it. They look terrible and the public is under the impression the project started after the BK. While it didn't, it is still a huge loser few are buying. The greenies either hate Detroit and buy a Prius or want a full electric Leaf. Those that do the math see what a bad buy it is. Now the thing is halfway to needing a major facelift as the life cycle is near halfway over.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
September 20th, 2012 at 1:06:21 PM
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Quote: reno
Are electric vehicles the cars of the future or a total flop? Ten years from now, will everyone be buying these? Anyone care to offer some predictions?
Electric cars, or their inevitable follow-along, are the future.
The Volt is essentially a step beyond the Prius. Toyota was afraid to take that step.
I test drove a Volt this Summer and was ready to lease it at $350/mo. Now I see it can be leased for less. My wife thought I'd eventually injure my neck diving into the thing since I am 6'2". I did that with a sports car I owned about 15 years ago. So, I bought my second Camry Hybrid. Love the car. 40 mpg with terrific luxury features not overdone. The same Camry w/o the hybrid is only about $1500 cheaper, so I figure the hybrid aspect of the vehicle is gonna pay for itself in pretty short order with gas nudging $4.00/gal.
September 20th, 2012 at 6:27:20 PM
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Quote: midwestgbElectric cars, or their inevitable follow-along, are the future.
The United States federal excise tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon (cpg). On average, as of April 2012, state and local taxes add 31.1 cents to gasoline for a total US average fuel tax of 49.5 cents (cpg) per gallon.
Spain has the lowest priced gasoline at $7.60 per gallon; and $3.67 of that is tax. Believe it or not, that's actually the lowest tax burden in Europe.
Italy's gasoline is $8.79 per gallon and that includes $4.74 in taxes.
France is looking at $9.24 with $5.40 of that being taxes.
Germany is at 9.07 with $4.88 in taxes.
In Portugal you'll pay $9.13 per gallon; $5.13 is tax and the government there has included $1.70 per gallon as a 'value added' tax.
So it seems as if the untaxed rate of gasoline in the USA is $3.50/gallon and $4.00/gallon in Europe ($3.74 in France). But European taxes can be a shocking $5.40 per gallon.
Perhaps we should be prepared for a new era in taxation. At over 140 billion gallons of use per year a $5.40 gallon tax like in France could almost close the deficit.
September 24th, 2012 at 7:01:35 AM
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Looks like recent Volt success is a Potemkin Village.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
October 11th, 2012 at 11:09:52 AM
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Quote: FaceWhatever an electric car does, a petroleum car can do better -
The all electric Tesla Model S performed well in a 0 to 100 mpg drag race against a BMW M5. (The BMW has a twin-turbo 4.4-liter V-8 engine with 560 hp and 500 lb-ft of torque.) Not that it matters at these astronomical price$, but the Tesla in the race was a few thousand dollars cheaper than the BMW.
October 11th, 2012 at 11:25:15 AM
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Quote: renoThe all electric Tesla Model S performed well in a 0 to 100 mpg drag race against a BMW M5. (The BMW has a twin-turbo 4.4-liter V-8 engine with 560 hp and 500 lb-ft of torque.) Not that it matters at these astronomical price$, but the Tesla in the race was a few thousand dollars cheaper than the BMW.
An electric should do good in a drag race. Electric motors make their peak power at 0 RPM. But once you get past the first 20 miles see what happens.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
April 16th, 2013 at 10:14:18 AM
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UPDATE: in March 2013, Nissan sold 2,236 Leafs, a 286 percent increase over March 2012. Meanwhile, Chevrolet delivered 1,478 Volts in March, down 35 percent from March 2012. (Chevrolet has sold 4,244 Volts so far this year while Nissan has sold 3,539 Leafs in 2013.) Tesla doesn't report monthly sales figures, but the company did announce that it sold more than 4,750 units in the first quarter of 2013, above its target of 4,500. Tesla also expects to report a profit for the first time in the company's 10-year history.
March 2013 will probably be one of the best months ever for the electric vehicle industry, although it's still a small sliver of the automotive market: to put it in perspective, analysts estimate total March 2013 car and truck sales reached nearly 1.5 million.
March 2013 will probably be one of the best months ever for the electric vehicle industry, although it's still a small sliver of the automotive market: to put it in perspective, analysts estimate total March 2013 car and truck sales reached nearly 1.5 million.
July 2nd, 2013 at 4:24:23 AM
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A study is now confirming my position that electrics are no better for the environment.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
June 17th, 2014 at 1:12:05 PM
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Total number of Chevy Volts sold in 2013: 23,094. As of May 31, Chevy had sold 6,838 Volts in 2014.
Total number of Nissan Leafs sold in 2013: 22,610. As of May 31, Nissan had sold 10,389 Leafs in 2014.
Total number of Teslas sold in 2013: 22,477. Tesla is targetting 35,000 vehicle sales for 2014. That might be optimistic: as of May 31, they'd only sold an estimated 5,600.
Nissan seems to be winning the race in 2014...
Total number of Nissan Leafs sold in 2013: 22,610. As of May 31, Nissan had sold 10,389 Leafs in 2014.
Total number of Teslas sold in 2013: 22,477. Tesla is targetting 35,000 vehicle sales for 2014. That might be optimistic: as of May 31, they'd only sold an estimated 5,600.
Nissan seems to be winning the race in 2014...
