Porpposed GLBT Section to the Forum

<sarcasm>

I don't think there's a problem with the existence of a "gay" forum (whatever that means).

As long as there's a forum for African-Americans. And straight white males. And Jewish folks. Et cetera.

Where's the forum for straight white males?

</sarcasm>

Personally, I don't care as it's Wizard's forum and he can do what he wants with it. I wouldn't have done it as it seems to create divisions in this little community-like thing going on here. It just always seemed a little incongruous that a group of people who strive so hard for acceptance and to be treated like everyone else also, in the same breath, do so much to separate themselves.

Sure, this is a gambling forum and, in a sense, the folks here are separating themselves along that grain. But even within this group, homosexuals seek again to set themselves apart and/or special treatment, as identified by their sexuality.

(I think I've posted before that homosexuals, as all people, seek to set themselves apart in some way, and for them, their sexuality is the way it is mostly done. This is a small example of what that looks like. The main grain on this forum is gambling, but not for the homosexual who goes against that grain and makes it something else.)

I would think that, if homosexuals want acceptance, they would go about it in the same way as anyone else ... be nice, get along with folks, be fun to be around, be selfless, don't draw undue attention, yada, yada, yada. Not by going around asking for special treatment while hiding behind some noble force-field premise and *demanding* acceptance.

The homosexuals I know who are likable in the ways anyone else is likable are the ones who speak to me with the greatest influence, not the ones who go around shouting, "We're here, we're queer, and we're in your face!" (Nareed's not like that in his methods, but it appears he pursues a similar strategy.)

Rightly or wrongly, homosexuality is a hot topic with strong opinions on all sides. Going there in a forum that's not dintended, designed, or managed for it is, IMHO, a mistake.

NB: Nareed is free to set himself apart by starting all the homosexual-themed threads he wants. I just think it's a mistake for Wizard to create a special place for anything not gambling- or casino-related.

Thing is, we're not all the same. Among straight people, we are not all the same; among gay people, we are not all the same.

However, all of us want to be accepted for our differences as well as our similarities. And that means that GLBT people sometimes ask nicely for a place where they can be GLBT together apart from those of us who aren't GLBT; they acknowledge that in some ways they are the same as hetero, and in some ways they are different, and they are asking others to respect both.

For me, that isn't hard to do. I don't necessarily have to understand it. All I have to know is that it is important for some GLBT, and it isn't a threat to me. And for that matter, my approval or disapproval is not really required... it would be nice, though, if I thought about it as a good thing for my fellow humans who are different from me. And since that isn't hard to do, I do it.

Quote: Mosca

Thing is, we're not all the same. Among straight people, we are not all the same; among gay people, we are not all the same.

Who said we're all the same?

There are things that make people likable and gain acceptance and influence, and things that make people dislike-able. No matter what your hair color or gender or sexual preference is, that's the same. If you're asking someone to like a person who, say, lies about you or abuses you under the noble-sounding guise of "we're not all the same," that's not going to happen and it doesn't reflect reality. That comment is a smoke screen.

Quote: Mosca

However, all of us want to be accepted for our differences as well as our similarities. And that means that GLBT people sometimes ask nicely for a place where they can be GLBT together apart from those of us who aren't GLBT; they acknowledge that in some ways they are the same as hetero, and in some ways they are different, and they are asking others to respect both.

Nobody here is failing to accept gays for how they're different. They're disagreeing with special treatment. Not the same thing, and it's bullshit that you try to equate them.

You're doing it again. In the same breath, you say, "accept me for my difference," and then ask for a place "apart from" others. And you hide it behind some noble-sounding purpose: "accept me for who I am, respect me." You do it nicely, but you still do it. Nice manipulation is still manipulation. Why don't you behave in ways that create acceptance? Why demand (nicely or otherwise) a special GLBT places from a forum that has a totally different purpose? Are you telling me you wouldn't have raised questions if Wizard declined? And why frame it in a way that, if anyone disagrees, they're not being accepting or respectful?

If you want to "be GLBT together," go create a place to do it, more power to you. Why bother Wizard about it?

Quote: Mosca

For me, that isn't hard to do. I don't necessarily have to understand it. All I have to know is that it is important for some GLBT, and it isn't a threat to me. And for that matter, my approval or disapproval is not really required... it would be nice, though, if I thought about it as a good thing for my fellow humans who are different from me. And since that isn't hard to do, I do it.

It's not hard for anyone to do, I don't think you have a special compassion that most of us lack. You just don't get to hide behind holier-than-thou bullshit. I wish you would just be honest about what you're doing. Just say, "My need/desire to set myself apart as identified by my sexuality is so great that I have to ask (nicely) for a special place to do that no matter what the original purpose of the place. And, that special place has to be RIGHT HERE instead of a place that already exists or that I could create with that original purpose."

Quote: ItsCalledSoccer

It's not hard for anyone to do, I don't think you have a special compassion that most of us lack. You just don't get to hide behind holier-than-thou bullshit. I wish you would just be honest about what you're doing. Just say, "My need/desire to set myself apart as identified by my sexuality is so great that I have to ask (nicely) for a special place to do that no matter what the original purpose of the place. And, that special place has to be RIGHT HERE instead of a place that already exists or that I could create with that original purpose."

I'm not gay. I'm a straight person who doesn't mind that gay people want to be gay together, and I don't care if they hang a sign on the door. And I don't even mind that you don't want them to have it. But if you get to say you DO mind, then I get to say I DON'T mind. Nothing holier-than-thou; you make reasoned arguments that I disagree with, for the reason I wrote.

Quote: AZDuffman

WE WANT TO BE TREATED LIKE EVERYONE ELSE--NOW GIVE US OUR OWN SPECIAL PLACE!

Don't you see a problem with that?

Good grief, AZ, look three posts up!

What makes me roll my eyes at this stuff is it seems that gays aren't looking for tolerance or acceptance, they're looking for approval. Given the religious beliefs of billions of people across the globe, that's just not realistic. Perhaps a world full of gay atheists would be one filled with peace and harmony, but that's not happening any time soon.

If you want to be treated like everyone else, act like everyone else, which includes keeping private matters private. I hear people call for keeping the government out of the bedroom, but then go out of their way to tell me what they're doing there.

In the summer Milwaukee has an ethnic festival almost every weekend on the lakefront of Lake Michigan: German Fest, Festa Italiana, Asian Moon Festival, etc., along with SummerFest, a music festival. Inevitably, a weekend is set aside for....Pride Fest, which apparently celebrates a "culture" based solely on sexual practices. Huh?

Just live your life, instead of compulsively shouting about matters that you claim are your own business.

I hesitate to weigh in here, as I have nothing to offer, other than my opinion. However, I have to admit my opinion on this topic has changed and I will share why it has changed.

When I read the first post asking for the GBLT section I thought 'No Way, it is a bad idea.'

Part of my objection was the argument that is being put forth that a mixed message is being delivered by some members of the GBLT community. That being "treat us the same as everyone else, until a situation comes up where it suits us better to be treated differently." However, in fairness, all groups suffer from that same process at one time or another, it is just the GBLT situation is one everyone recognizes immediately, and most have a preformed, strong opinion.

So I came to realize that I was objecting to something GBLT related, when I didn't necessarily object when it was about some other person or group.

Another reason I felt the GBLT section was inappropriate was that this was a site about gambling, and thankfully, a lot of the site was about the math behind the gambling. Whether you were GBLT or not is irrelevant to the math.

But then I saw the post that mentioned we have an adult section of strip clubs, etc. What does that have to do with gambling, or the math behind it? Not everyone goes to strip clubs, and it may be that only a small percentage of us here partake in that experience. Does it belong here? Personally, that section never bothered me, so then I asked myself how was that different than having a GBLT section. And the answer was, "There should be no difference." It is only an issue because no thread got started that complained about it. And as Wizard himself pointed out, there is a whole GBLT subculture to Vegas, and this forum while about gambling, is also very much about Vegas.

There is a review section on hotels and restaurants. I am sure some of the hotels and restaurants are more friendly to the GBLT community than others, and I am also sure that in some places there is probably outward hostility to GBLT people as well. If I was part of the GBLT community I would certainly like to know that information. Why should that be excluded from this site?

And finally, I think there is benefit to all of us by having a dedicated GBLT section. While I am not offended reading about GBLT items (I have good friends in the GBLT community, and many play in my sports leagues) I don't necessarily care to read about their issues. However, to deny them access to use the forum the same way we use it, would be unfair too. So, a dedicated section gives the GBLT community a place to post all of their specific issues and needs. If I am interested, I can go read which hotels are GBLT friendly, and if I am not interested or even offended by GBLT topics, then I won't be seeing them in the main part of the forum.

In the end, I think it becomes a Win - Win for everyone who participates or lurks in this forum, regardless of which side you fall on, or even if you have no side. I think it becomes a non-issue, just like the strip club section, the adult section, the game development section, etc.

Raliegh -

A very well writen post. Thanks.

For what it's worth, I was going to point out that, aside from the forum, the WOO side is mostly about gambling, while the WOV is mostly about Vegas.

And while the biggest 'vice' in Vegas is gambling, surely sex, in all it's varieties must be in the #2 spot in Sin City.

As such, having a GLTB discussion area, is a no-brainer.

Quote: RaleighCraps

So, a dedicated section gives the GBLT community a place to post all of their specific issues and needs. If I am interested, I can go read which hotels are GBLT friendly, and if I am not interested or even offended by GBLT topics, then I won't be seeing them in the main part of the forum.

Thank you. Indeed a very well written post.

I've been saying that, too, but scattered across many replies. I appreciate your summary of the situation and your thoughts on the subject.

Quote: Nareed

Thank you. Indeed a very well written post.

I've been saying that, too, but scattered across many replies. I appreciate your summary of the situation and your thoughts on the subject.

I know the feeling. And I should really not be allowed to post after drinking.

I always find it odd that people place GLB with T... the former is about sexuality, the latter about gender perception... related but different.

Anyways, I certainly agree that a GLB section about GLB places in Vegas and reviews makes sense if your discussing Vegas, baby. People may want to review such things, I guess. Though I haven't seen much traffic in -general- reviews of Sin City anyways.

Sigh...

I don't think Nareed was demanding that a GLBT area be set up. He is politely asking for an area. Like RaleighCraps said (paraphrasing), there's an adult section -- I don't frequent that. There are other areas of the site dedicated to special interests. I wouldn't be frequenting the GLBT site area, just as much as I wouldn't frequent a slots forum either -- I don't care about either.

Honestly, we have to look at the mirror here.

Quote: Mosca

I'm not gay. I'm a straight person who doesn't mind that gay people want to be gay together, and I don't care if they hang a sign on the door. And I don't even mind that you don't want them to have it. But if you get to say you DO mind, then I get to say I DON'T mind. Nothing holier-than-thou; you make reasoned arguments that I disagree with, for the reason I wrote.

I'm not sure how many times I have to say I don't mind ...

Quote: ItsCalledSoccer

Personally, I don't care as it's Wizard's forum and he can do what he wants with it.

Quote: ItsCalledSoccer

Nareed is free to set himself apart by starting all the homosexual-themed threads he wants.

Quote: ItsCalledSoccer

Nobody here is failing to accept gays for how they're different.

Anyone who hasn't picked up on that is willfully ignoring it. I'm not even sure why anything about what I mind or don't mind would be relevant to the discussion in the first place. Who cares what I mind and don't mind?

Quote: RaleighCraps

However, to deny them access to use the forum the same way we use it, would be unfair too.

Who's denying access? Who doesn't want them to use it in the same way anyone else uses it?

Quote: ItsCalledSoccer

Nareed is free to set himself apart by starting all the homosexual-themed threads he wants.

All these things, while true and nice-sounding, are not relevant. I don't think the problem was ever the presence or freedom or restrictions on the gay folks that participate here. The absence of a "special place" on this forum is not a restriction on any gay person. To make it about that appears to be an obfuscation. Why is it so difficult to keep the topic the topic? Why does all this other stuff have to be mentioned?

It comes across as an effort, however civil, to silence any discussion at all. I don't think that's healthy for anyone.

The presence of such a place, however, is a kind of "special treatment" and a kind of "I'm identified by my sexuality no matter what the forum theme is." Do I mind it? No. Do I think it's a mistake? Yeah. I think it opens all sorts of doors for other groups to request "special treatment."

Quote: ItsCalledSoccer

<sarcasm>

As long as there's a forum for African-Americans. And straight white males. And Jewish folks. Et cetera.

Where's the forum for straight white males?

</sarcasm>

Will it be a fatal mistake? Hopefully not, but better things have been destroyed by less.

Quote: Croupier

There is a Sports Betting section for Sports Bettors, There is a Strip Club section for those interested in going to Strip Clubs. Why the outrage against the GBLT section of society for a section that could be used to discuss gay specific venues or topics.

Exxcept for the "outrage against the GLBT section" part, this post made the most sense to me. There's no outrage. There's disagreement and debate. Not the same thing, and it's bullshit to equate them. Since when did disagreement and debate = outrage? If it becomes so on the topic of homosexuality ... "special treatment" and silencing again.

But on the point of Croupier's post ... it makes some sense in this light. Nareed's original reason for creating the thread was ...

Quote: Nareed

On that spirit and with permission from the Wizard, I'm asking whether we should add a GLBT section. The reason for it is that Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender people may look for things to do and palces to go to that are not often discussed in other areas. I realize, too, that we could simply ask about it in existing areas. Finally I odn't know how amny of us are here, and whether the number would be high enough to justify it. Not to mention that several GLBT members might prefer not to out themselves here.

My first thought was, why not just go ahead and start such threads? Why does there need to be a whole special section about it? Is the reason *really* to accommodate people who might be offended? Or is it to (nicely) ask for "special treatment"? Given the attitude thrown the way of the folks who disagree with special treatment, consideration for their sensibilities does not seem to be at the front of mind. That's fine, just don't pretend it is, and don't hide behind it as a "pure" motive when the motive is something different.

Maybe the strip club thing came in response to demand; i.e., the number of posts/threads wanting to know about that stuff. Maybe it just came about as something that first comes to mind when it comes to Vegas. Either way, a special section for GLBT didn't come about as a response to demand, and it didn't come to mind as to things Vegas. No big deal. Nareed admits he doesn't know the demand.

How about this ... if the GLBT "special section" does not succeed, Wizard takes it down. "Succeed" means "a level of new membership participating there and a frequency of participation that mirrors the forum as a whole." To me, that would indicate that either the demand is not there, or GLBT things are not something that first comes to mind when it comes to Vegas (in a similar way to strip clubs).

Are there any market-driven circumstances that would make it okay to take down the special section? Or does it *have* to be up, no matter what? I can live without the Strip Club section. I would just start new threads when I want to find out about strip clubs.

(Not an instruction to Wizard, it's his site and he doesn't have to share his thinking with us, least of all me. It's meant to provoke thought on what "special treatment" really means.)

EDIT: I guess what I think is, I would rather see Strip Club > Gay and Hotels > Gay Event and Best Buffets > Gay-Themed than Gay > Strip Club or Gay > Hotel Events or Gay > Buffet Themes.

If I had to state clearly a reason, I would say that the first way communicates a participation in what everyone else does with an emphasis on a market demograhpy, hell, come join us because the food and music is great at these things! The second way comes across as an entire special separation of the demography from the rest of us for members of that club only. That's not the entirety of the distinction I'm trying to make, but maybe that will be more illustrative of what I mean by "special treatment for any group is a bad thing for everyone."

Quote: ItsCalledSoccer

I'm not sure how many times I have to say I don't mind ...

[..]

Quote:

How about this ... if the GLBT "special section" does not succeed, Wizard takes it down. "Succeed" means "a level of new membership participating there and a frequency of participation that mirrors the forum as a whole." To me, that would indicate that either the demand is not there, or GLBT things are not something that first comes to mind when it comes to Vegas (in a similar way to strip clubs).

How about until your words match your actions.

Quote: ItsCalledSoccer

Sure, this is a gambling forum and, in a sense, the folks here are separating themselves along that grain. But even within this group, homosexuals seek again to set themselves apart and/or special treatment, as identified by their sexuality.

Thats because for many Gays, their sexuality IS their identity, their sexuality is their life. Everything they do revolves around their sexual preference. I said before that I worked in a bar that was just a few doors away from a Gay bar, and we had a lot of cross traffic. I became good friends with many Gay men of different ages and to a person, sex was all they talked about, joked about, concentrated on or cared about. If a Straight guy becomes this fixated on sex, we say he needs professional help. Yet Gays do it for all their lives and its 'normal'. One thing they joked about constantly was getting older. Many were terrified of it because it would mean they could no longer attract the very young good looking men that seemed to be their major focus. I enjoyed their company and had a good time, yet it was wearing on me too. I felt sorry for many of them, I didn't see how it was possible to have a lifestyle like that for years and years and not ultimately pay a price. Everybody gets older, you can't stay 32 forever. I realized later that many of those guys had AIDS, but nobody even knew what AIDS was then. Some of them were getting sick, but nobody was nervous yet, why would they be.

Quote: Nareed

How about until your words match your actions.

How many of my actions have you witnessed? How many of my friends are GLBT? (Remember, I went to Stanford, near San Francisco, the center of the homosexual community.) How much influence did those friends have in helping me form the opinions I hold? A lot, maybe? Are your attitudes more reflective of the center of gay culture, or are they more reflective of some Hollywood PC counterfeit of gay culture?

Are you stalking me and I don't know it? Or are you talking out of your ass? I think the latter is more likely, but I guess you could be stalking me. Anyway, like I said,

Quote: ItsCalledSoccer

Given the attitude thrown the way of the folks who disagree with special treatment, consideration for their sensibilities does not seem to be at the front of mind.

Guess you really were bullshitting when you tried to sell an innocent motive. But hey, I wouldn't have been offended anyway, so that way of thinking was lost on people like me.

I guess I can take your response to mean that there's no room, in your mind, for the special section to be taken away? Case-in-point as to why special treatment is a bad thing in the long run.

Quote: ItsCalledSoccer

Guess you really were bullshitting when you tried to sell an innocent motive. But hey, I wouldn't have been offended anyway, so that way of thinking was lost on people like me.

Wait, you quote yourself to make a point about what I said?

Quote: Nareed

Wait, you quote yourself to make a point about what I said?

Yes, in debate its a perfectly legitimate tactic. Often what you're saying makes so much sense that it bears repeating.

Quote: ItsCalledSoccer

Yeah. I think it opens all sorts of doors for other groups to request "special treatment."

Complaints about discrimination were generally about "-fill- in the blank- only people." That is, "whites only", or some other such thing. Not about having special groups. I think you may be confusing an issue here.

Is the gay forum restricted to gays? Far as I know, no.

You know, feeding the trolls is instructive, and to some extent it helps pass the time, but in the end it's ultimately futile. I feel like I'm going up against the sheep in Animal Farm, who can only bleat one thing over and over again. despite what I explain, what Croupier, DJ, and many others say, explain, exemplify and analogize, all we get back is "SPECIAL TREATMENT!"

Well, your opinions are your own, and surely they're worth their weight in diamonds wrapped in gold and held in platinum vessels full of tritium. But I, for one, am tired of banging my head against concrete minds. If I want aggravation, I can get it locally.

I'll ask you kindly to refrain from making a mess of the GLBT section (NOTE: THAT'S A REQUEST POLITELY STATED; IT'S NOT A DEMMAND FOR SPECIAL TREATEMENT), but of course you'll do as you will.

So you've all succeeded this much into getting me to flame you. I hope you're satisfied, because this is all you're ever going to get.

Mosca, Croupier, DJ, paco, and all the rest who've stood on my side, I sincerely thank you again for your support (look at my new sig, please, it means all of you), and your kindness. And I ask you to join me in stoppping this dead-end thread right where it is. Continuing won't accomplish anything, save perhaps raise your blood pressure.

Thank you all and see you around the forum.

If you don't mind, I'd like to say: it is not taking sides. I don't think anyone, regardless of their position, is against Nareed. We are all for what we think is right. It just happens that we do not agree on what that is. I understand the points made against, and that was my initial first thought as well, but I considered it a bit more before deciding what I thought.

Ah, well. Sloppy life. Not like the math, which is so neat and clean.

No one here made an enemy of me; I hope I did not do the same conversely.

Quote: ItsCalledSoccer

<sarcasm>

I don't think there's a problem with the existence of a "gay" forum (whatever that means).

As long as there's a forum for African-Americans. And straight white males. And Jewish folks. Et cetera.

Where's the forum for straight white males?

</sarcasm>

Personally, I don't care as it's Wizard's forum and he can do what he wants with it. I wouldn't have done it as it seems to create divisions in this little community-like thing going on here. It just always seemed a little incongruous that a group of people who strive so hard for acceptance and to be treated like everyone else also, in the same breath, do so much to separate themselves.

Sure, this is a gambling forum and, in a sense, the folks here are separating themselves along that grain. But even within this group, homosexuals seek again to set themselves apart and/or special treatment, as identified by their sexuality.

(I think I've posted before that homosexuals, as all people, seek to set themselves apart in some way, and for them, their sexuality is the way it is mostly done. This is a small example of what that looks like. The main grain on this forum is gambling, but not for the homosexual who goes against that grain and makes it something else.)

I would think that, if homosexuals want acceptance, they would go about it in the same way as anyone else ... be nice, get along with folks, be fun to be around, be selfless, don't draw undue attention, yada, yada, yada. Not by going around asking for special treatment while hiding behind some noble force-field premise and *demanding* acceptance.

The homosexuals I know who are likable in the ways anyone else is likable are the ones who speak to me with the greatest influence, not the ones who go around shouting, "We're here, we're queer, and we're in your face!" (Nareed's not like that in his methods, but it appears he pursues a similar strategy.)

Rightly or wrongly, homosexuality is a hot topic with strong opinions on all sides. Going there in a forum that's not dintended, designed, or managed for it is, IMHO, a mistake.

NB: Nareed is free to set himself apart by starting all the homosexual-themed threads he wants. I just think it's a mistake for Wizard to create a special place for anything not gambling- or casino-related.

Perhaps Wiz will take a suggestion here. Don't have posts from the gay forum show up in the "latest threads" section. I believe FSZ does not show up there, or does it. This way Nareed can have all the gay issue discussions he wants to without anyone "stumbling" in there.

Quote: Mosca

If you don't mind, I'd like to say: it is not taking sides.

I believe that in your case. I know you're not out to win the internet, or even this forum. I'm not anymore, etiher. But I'm less sure about the rest.

Quote:

I don't think anyone, regardless of their position, is against Nareed.

I'd like to believe that. Prior to the current mini-war I respected many of the posters who caused me most grief. I can tell you I don't respect them as much, or in some cases at all, and I wouldn't be surprised if it were mutual.

Quote:

No one here made an enemy of me; I hope I did not do the same conversely.

I hope not. In my case you've made a friend, as far as that goes on the internet (ah, the brutal honesty...)

Quote: Nareed

And I ask you to join me in stoppping this dead-end thread right where it is.

Why won't you answer any questions? I've asked half a dozen good ones and you completely ignore them and attack me for asking them.

Quote: EvenBob

Why won't you answer any questions?

You're blocked. AZDuffman and the sucker fan are blocked too. You have nothing to say that I'd find remotely of interest, and so I don't waste my time on you. Hope you appreciate the special treatment.

Quote:

I've asked half a dozen good ones and you completely ignore them and attack me for asking them.

I didn't see any. Would you care to point one out?

oops! Sorry. My bad. I won't see it anyway.

Quote: Nareed

You know, feeding the trolls is instructive, and to some extent it helps pass the time, but in the end it's ultimately futile. I feel like I'm going up against the sheep in Animal Farm, who can only bleat one thing over and over again. despite what I explain, what Croupier, DJ, and many others say, explain, exemplify and analogize, all we get back is "SPECIAL TREATMENT!"

Well, your opinions are your own, and surely they're worth their weight in diamonds wrapped in gold and held in platinum vessels full of tritium. But I, for one, am tired of banging my head against concrete minds. If I want aggravation, I can get it locally.

I'll ask you kindly to refrain from making a mess of the GLBT section (NOTE: THAT'S A REQUEST POLITELY STATED; IT'S NOT A DEMMAND FOR SPECIAL TREATEMENT), but of course you'll do as you will.

So you've all succeeded this much into getting me to flame you. I hope you're satisfied, because this is all you're ever going to get.

Mosca, Croupier, DJ, paco, and all the rest who've stood on my side, I sincerely thank you again for your support (look at my new sig, please, it means all of you), and your kindness. And I ask you to join me in stoppping this dead-end thread right where it is. Continuing won't accomplish anything, save perhaps raise your blood pressure.

Thank you all and see you around the forum.

This post strongly reminded me of mkl: "if you don't agree with me, you're a troll. I and the people who think like me are the only reasonable ones in the room, and everyone else is a concrete block. There's no room for disagreement with me, so disagreeing with me must only be done for the purposes of irritating me and getting me to be something I'm usually not."

Not everything is about you.

Oh well, he's got me blocked, for no reason, I guess, other than I'm calling special treatment what it is. Naturally, my disagreement with special treatment and the thought that the marketplace is sufficient for the pursuit of happiness for all, and the examples Nareed himself provides as to why I think it's a bad thing, equals homophobia/troll/flaming jackwagon/win the internet/whatever.

Not once did Nareed try to make a point as to why special treatment is a good thing. This may be less about whether he thinks special treatment is, indeed, a good thing, and more about that he doesn't think special treatment is what it is, or maybe even that he *deserves* it for whatever reason. But I'm just guessing here.

Quote: Nareed

You're blocked. AZDuffman and the sucker fan are blocked too. You have nothing to say that I'd find remotely of interest, and so I don't waste my time on you. Hope you appreciate the special treatment.

Wow, what a special club we must be in now. Well, EB and ICS is if you boys want to met me at one of the four hetero-friendly casinos up here (Rivers, Wheeling, Mountraineer, or Meadows) I will be more than happy to buy the first round of the malted beverage pitcher of your choice as long as your choice is not Coors Light. We can talk about craps and football and trucks and all the stereotypical hetero guy stuff.

And, BTW, even though he says he has us blocked I will lay 6:5 that he keeps peeking at what we are posting.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled gambling discussions AS IT SHOULD BE.

I haven't seen any posts here I'd classify as trolling.

Quote: Calder

I haven't seen any posts here I'd classify as trolling.

That is because you are a person tolerant of diverse views. Tolerance is not in the vocabulary of the folks claiming trolling in this thread.

Quote: Calder

I haven't seen any posts here I'd classify as trolling.

Any complaint, any disagreement, any question, anything but going along with their agenda 110%, is considered trolling. Sometimes these guys would come into my bar with the most outrageous eye makeup on and get right in my face. When I had no reaction at all, they were crestfallen. They want a reaction, they live for reactions. Ever hear the phrase "We're here, we're q***r, and we're in your face!" That pretty much says it all.

Quote: ItsCalledSoccer

This post strongly reminded me of mkl: "if you don't agree with me, you're a troll. I and the people who think like me are the only reasonable ones in the room, and everyone else is a concrete block. There's no room for disagreement with me, so disagreeing with me must only be done for the purposes of irritating me and getting me to be something I'm usually not."

I'm not thrilled with this reference, which was apparently generated because I disagreed with your religious viewpoints on another thread. Why on earth are you Believers so bloody intolerant???

Nareed can do whatever he wants. It is, in fact, a free country.

Quote: mkl654321

Nareed can do whatever he wants. It is, in fact, a free country.

Nareed lives in Mexico, I believe.

Quote: EvenBob

Nareed lives in Mexico, I believe.

But the forum is in the United States. U.S. laws, as well as U.S. customs, would apply.

And for what it's worth, I believe free speech is also constitutionally protected in Mexico. Maybe Nareed can help us out here.

Quote: mkl654321

But the forum is in the United States. U.S. laws, as well as U.S. customs, would apply.

And for what it's worth, I believe free speech is also constitutionally protected in Mexico. Maybe Nareed can help us out here.

His profile said he was 46 also, but I see he removed that. Who knows..

Quote: mkl654321

But the forum is in the United States. U.S. laws, as well as U.S. customs, would apply.

Questions of territoriality on the internet can be complex. In this instance, since the messages exist in one or more computers located in the US, specifically Nevada, US laws and customs prevail.

Quote:

And for what it's worth, I believe free speech is also constitutionally protected in Mexico. Maybe Nareed can help us out here.

It is.

For a time the government did soft censorship, mostly by means of monopolies in TV and, of all things, newsprint, but that's long gone.