Porpposed GLBT Section to the Forum
Poll
 | 5 votes (15.15%) | ||
| | 12 votes (36.36%) | ||
| | 16 votes (48.48%) |
33 members have voted
On that spirit and with permission from the Wizard, I'm asking whether we should add a GLBT section. The reason for it is that Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender people may look for things to do and palces to go to that are not often discussed in other areas. I realize, too, that we could simply ask about it in existing areas. Finally I odn't know how amny of us are here, and whether the number would be high enough to justify it. Not to mention that several GLBT members might prefer not to out themselves here.
So I'm offering three choices: yes, no and don't care.
Also please note this is just a poll by a regular, if rather chatty and frequent user, not by the site owner or his moderators. A "yes" answer does not compell the Wizard to set up the section.
Thank you.
If someone were inclined to avoid gay hot-spots, having them listed and/or discussed here would be beneficial for that purpose.
Of course, there's the other side of that coin too: a listing of gay hot-spots might be useful to someone wishing to visit such a place for the purpose of gay-bashing.
Quote: DJTeddyBearIt could also help those on the other side of the fence.
If someone were inclined to avoid gay hot-spots, having them listed and/or discussed here would be beneficial for that purpose.
I hadn't thought of that.
Quote:Of course, there's the other side of that coin too: a listing of gay hot-spots might be useful to someone wishing to visit such a place for the purpose of gay-bashing.
True. On the other hand a mere list of places isn't that hard to come by.
The point of having it here is the opinions and other info from fellow users.
And then there are "mundane" places that are more welcoming than others. This matters to Tgs most, but it applies to GLBs as well. Things like shops, restaurants and even casinos.
Nothing about the Law of Large Numbers applies more to Gays or less to Gays.
That little white ball bouncing around the frets of a roulette wheel doesn't much care about the sexual orientation of the bettors.
One simple thread on Gay Friendly places might interest some forum members but the same might be said about Pet Friendly casinos in Vegas or Smoker friendly casinos in Vegas. I don't think we need separate areas by type of dog or by brand of cigarettes.
I see no need for fragmenting the membership. I've heard Paris, Paris is a casino that is a de-facto gay and lesbian oriented hotel and casino. I don't know if its true or not. Those who might want to confirm this information probably know several sites to go to for various Gay Yellow Page type information. I don't think there is a Gay Dice Information. When the casino says something about three cards ... I don't think they are referring to activities amongst those three playing cards.
If a casino opens in West Hollywood, CA, or The Castro district of San Francisco, I expect the reviews to focus on the gambling and not the sexual orientation of the gamblers. One woman who was helping me at Blackjack at a nearby Indian casino had a tattoo that indicated her sexual orientation was to other females. I never gave any greater or less weight to her advice because of it. I admired her speed in addition and her knowledge of Basic Strategy. I also liked the fact that I made money by following her advice. I never thought the tattoo was relevant.
I see nothing to be gained from a separate section. Or a separate focus. Unless of course someone can prove that the little white ball is indeed affected by the sexual orientation of the bettors.
You can't tell someone's preference by looking at them.
We want to be treated like everyone else.
We want a gay forum.
Quote: FleaStiffIts his forum.
Nothing about the Law of Large Numbers applies more to Gays or less to Gays.
That little white ball bouncing around the frets of a roulette wheel doesn't much care about the sexual orientation of the bettors.
True. But that's not the reason I proposed a GLBT section. In fact the rest of the forum takes care of gambling questions just fine, so there would be no reason to carry over such discussion to the new section.
Quote:One simple thread on Gay Friendly places might interest some forum members but the same might be said about Pet Friendly casinos in Vegas or Smoker friendly casinos in Vegas. I don't think we need separate areas by type of dog or by brand of cigarettes.
Sure. I mentioned this possibility, too. But the poll is to determine the level of interest as well.
Quote: CalderWe want to be treated like everyone else.
We want a gay forum.
Go start one, then. Or, go to any of the myriad of existing forums that are "gay".
I don't think you want a "gay" forum. I think you want at least part of THIS PARTICULAR forum to become "gay" (whatever that means).
If you REALLY want to be treated like "everyone else," that's what you would do. You would enter into the marketplace, create a forum, and shape it however you want. Just like Wizard. Just like ... umm ... everyone else.
It's Wizard's site, he can do what he wants. And it's not homophobic if he chooses not to make a special forum/section/whatever. But just be honest with yourself that you're not asking to be treated like everyone else. You're asking for special treatment.
If you want special treatment, fine, just say so. If you think you *deserve* special treatment because you've been oppressed/whatever, fine, just say so. But don't hide behind any "we want to be treated like anyone else" force-field.
It always seemed a little incongruous that any group would "want to be treated the same" and "want our own forum" in the same breath. There's no "Af-Am" or "Mex-Am" or "women's" or "white male" or "Ital-Am" or "Jewish" forum, and they all have their own identities. They just haven't (so far) asked for special treatment like this is.
FWIW, I voted "I don't care" because it's not my forum, it's Wizard's, and Wizard can do whatever he wants with it.
Quote: ItsCalledSoccerGo start one, then. Or, go to any of the myriad of existing forums that are "gay".
I don't think you want a "gay" forum. I think you want at least part of THIS PARTICULAR forum to become "gay" (whatever that means).
If you REALLY want to be treated like "everyone else," that's what you would do. You would enter into the marketplace, create a forum, and shape it however you want. Just like Wizard. Just like ... umm ... everyone else.
It's Wizard's site, he can do what he wants. And it's not homophobic if he chooses not to make a special forum/section/whatever. But just be honest with yourself that you're not asking to be treated like everyone else. You're asking for special treatment.
If you want special treatment, fine, just say so. If you think you *deserve* special treatment because you've been oppressed/whatever, fine, just say so. But don't hide behind any "we want to be treated like anyone else" force-field.
It always seemed a little incongruous that any group would "want to be treated the same" and "want our own forum" in the same breath. There's no "Af-Am" or "Mex-Am" or "women's" or "white male" or "Ital-Am" or "Jewish" forum, and they all have their own identities. They just haven't (so far) asked for special treatment like this is.
FWIW, I voted "I don't care" because it's not my forum, it's Wizard's, and Wizard can do whatever he wants with it.
I cant' agree with soccer dude more. Why is all this crap coming up lately. Who cares what anyone is on a forum message board?
I think this is all very inappropriate.
Quote: NareedIf I were to propose a forum section for locals, or for outdoor activities, or for excercise opportunities, in Las Vegas, the only difference would be that I wouldn't need to justify locals', outdoor types' or excercise enthusiasts' request for a section that focuses on their interests as regards Las Vegas. And I bet 10:1 no one would complain about "special rights."
Calder called for a "gay" forum, not me. Your issue is with him.
You're probably right about those things. However, they're not equivalent. Rightly or wrongly, there's no political controversy surrounding locals, outdoor types, exercise enthusiasts, etc.
And, those things are elected activites that people choose to do. (Yes, locals choose, on some level, to be locals.) So, unless you are saying that homosexuality is an elected activity in the same way that being a local, an outdoor type, an exercise enthusiats, or whatever, is, then the comparison/analogy doesn't make any sense.
I'm not ready to say that homosexuality is a an elected activity in the same way you seem to be saying it, but if you are, that's fine.
Quote: thlfI cant' agree with soccer dude more. Why is all this crap coming up lately. Who cares what anyone is on a forum message board?
I think this is all very inappropriate.
Obviously one person here has a gay agenda and is trying to ram it down our throats.
Quote: DeMangoObviously one person here has a gay agenda and is trying to ram it down our throats.
Whom do you suspect? Will you name names? What do you know?
BTW ;)
Quote: ItsCalledSoccerGo start one, then. Or, go to any of the myriad of existing forums that are "gay".
I was being ironic. I thought the contradiction was obvious. I voted "no."
Quote: WizardI have decided to add such a forum. Here it is, be the first to post in it, if you wish.
I think I just did :)
Seriously, thank you very much. I hope we'll see some activity besides myself. In any case I'll try to keep it interesting.
Thanks again.
The DIS Discussion Forum
Folks seem to be able to take their kids to Disney World just fine, people seem to be able to discuss the benefits of Disney resorts vs timeshares and vacation rentals just fine, everything seems to work great there, even with a GLBT section.
Those who aren't interested, don't click it. Which is a lot easier than not clicking on a Jerry Logan post, those might turn up anywhere.
Quote: CalderOur sexual preference makes no difference.
You can't tell someone's preference by looking at them.
We want to be treated like everyone else.
We want a gay forum.
WE WANT TO BE TREATED LIKE EVERYONE ELSE--NOW GIVE US OUR OWN SPECIAL PLACE!
Don't you see a problem with that?
Quote: AZDuffmanWE WANT TO BE TREATED LIKE EVERYONE ELSE--NOW GIVE US OUR OWN SPECIAL PLACE!
Don't you see a problem with that?
1) We have different interests from most everyone else. In order not to clutter up other areas, we'd rather have an area of our own.
2) I asked the Wizard for a spot, stating the same reasons I posted here and he agreed. I realize it's horrible when someone does what he wants on his own property for his own reasons, but do try to cut the Wizard some slack. He's a very nice guy.
3) I'm still waiting for an apology for comparing gays to serial killers.
4) Is GLBT derrangmement syndome related to Bush derrangement syndrome and Palin derrangement syndrome? I ask because the symptoms appear to be strikingly similar: perfectly reasonable people go berserk at the mention of either.
5) If you insist to keep hanging yourself on the rope of your hatred, I won't lift a finger to stop you.
Quote: MoscaJeez, it hardly matters, people. The world isn't going to end because WoV has added a GLBT section. .
Thats not the point. For the last 20 years all I've heard from Gay's is how they want to be treated like everyone else. In marriage, in the military, in business, in society. If somebody called for a hetero section, they would be lambasted from all sides. Now Gay's are saying "we're sooooo different from the rest of you that we want our own section"? Which is it, do you want to be treated differently or the same same as everybody else? Make up you minds.
Quote: EvenBobIf somebody called for a hetero section, they would be lambasted from all sides.
Not if you asked for it in a board about San Francisco ;)
Seriously, I wouldn't mind.
The GLBT section is a special interest area. I comapred it to an area for locals or outdoor types, for example. Surely you can see these groups would have interests not shared by the majority of the membership. The GLBT section does not exclude anyone, either. You can post there if you want. Why would you want to, well, that's your business, really.
Also, whilst GBLT campaign for acceptance into conventional society, the deliberate self segregation of certain aspects of their lifestyle seems to stem from a desire to be around like minded people, and protect themselves from prejudiced people.
Apologies for using Gay for my example but I could not think how GBLT would fit in properly, and Gay Bar is a generally used terms. It was only for simplification.
Quote: Nareed1) We have different interests from most everyone else. In order not to clutter up other areas, we'd rather have an area of our own.
2) I asked the Wizard for a spot, stating the same reasons I posted here and he agreed. I realize it's horrible when someone does what he wants on his own property for his own reasons, but do try to cut the Wizard some slack. He's a very nice guy.
3) I'm still waiting for an apology for comparing gays to serial killers.
4) Is GLBT derrangmement syndome related to Bush derrangement syndrome and Palin derrangement syndrome? I ask because the symptoms appear to be strikingly similar: perfectly reasonable people go berserk at the mention of either.
5) If you insist to keep hanging yourself on the rope of your hatred, I won't lift a finger to stop you.
1. So are you "the same as everyone else" or does being gay mean you "have different interests." Make up your mind.
2. I haven't condemed the Wizard personally at all. I agree with the poster who said it is a bad idea, but I am not telling the Wizard how to run his board any more than I tell the Pit Boss at my local casino how to run the pit.
3. You will be waiting for a very long time. Re-read the disclaimer I gave when I wrote the example if you do not understand why an apology has not and will not be posted. I am not like an executive at FOX who puts Keifer Sutherland to say "we have nothing against muslims" because muslims were used as the bad guys in that episode.
4. I don't have any "derangement syndrome" so I can't answer. I am merely tired of seeing gay themes everytime I turn around.
5. I am not hanging myself by hatred, you confuse "tolerance" with "acceptance." I tolerate people who choose a gay lifestyle as part of civilized society. I will never accept it any more than I accept 6:5 BJ.
Quote: NareedNot if you asked for it in a board about San Francisco ;)
Seriously, I wouldn't mind.
This board isn't in SF. You wouldn't mind? So you want Gay sections is restaurants, because you're so different from everybody else? You want Gay Only hotel rooms? How about Gay restrooms on the interstates, wouldn't that be neat. The more you're accepted into mainstream society, the more you now want to point out your differences, you're 'special' interests? Which way do you want it, make up your minds.
Quote: AZDuffman1. So are you "the same as everyone else" or does being gay mean you "have different interests." Make up your mind.
Since you need it at your level: do you seriously think all people share all their interests?
Oh, tolerance does not mean to verbally bash a group of people at every opportunity, regardless that any of them personally ahve been previously kind to you.
Quote: EvenBobThis board isn't in SF. You wouldn't mind? So you want Gay sections is restaurants, because you're so different from everybody else? You want Gay Only hotel rooms? How about Gay restrooms on the interstates, wouldn't that be neat. The more you're accepted into mainstream society, the more you now want to point out your differences, you're 'special' interests? Which way do you want it, make up your minds.
You're being childish. Please stop, it's unbecoming.
Quote: NareedYou're being childish. Please stop, it's unbecoming.
Thats your reply? The the best you can do is deflect my questions by being insulting? Its a serious question, do you want to be treated like everyone else, or do you want to be singled out for special treatment? You can't have it both ways.
Quote: NareedSince you need it at your level: do you seriously think all people share all their interests?
Oh, tolerance does not mean to verbally bash a group of people at every opportunity, regardless that any of them personally ahve been previously kind to you.
Ah, I see, you are saying being gay is an "interest?" Does that mean you are admitting it is a choice? Or do you think we need a section for blacks as well? Oh, wait, we realized that was not acceptable in the USA.
You need to face reality. Reality is by asking for a "special" section you are in fact saying you want special treatment. That is totally at odds with just wanting to live your life, something you claim to want to do.
Quote: EvenBobThats your reply? The the best you can do is deflect my questions by being insulting? Its a serious question, do you want to be treated like everyone else, or do you want to be singled out for special treatment? You can't have it both ways.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean it as an insult.
You are taking things not literally, but over-literally, nit-picking every tiny detail and posing reductio ad absurdum arguments that are way too absurdum. That's being childish, or acting like a Trekkie which is the same thing (I was a Trekkie for several years, I ought to know).
I'll say this again, had I asked for a section on science fiction, or stamp collecting, or vegas for locals, would you raise the same fuss? I am not saying being GLBT is the same as liking SF or colelcting stamps or living in vegas, but that GLBT people have some interests (as in things they find of interest) that are best discussed in a section of its own. especially indeference for people who are "tired" of finding gay-related themes everywhere, but who make it a point to but into any GLBT thread and post in them.
As to latinos and such, if there were several Spanish speakers in the forum who'd like a Spanish language section, I would see nothing wrong with it. I'd have no use for such a section, but I wouldn't mind it. If they wanted a section for some special interest particualr to them and not widely shared by the rest of the membership, I'd see nothing wrong with it either. I confess I do not see what such an interest could be, but I don't deny it may be there.
I hope I've made myself clear. If you want to rant about "special rights" and "privileges" that's your choice, but don't expect me to waste any more time on it.
Quote: Nareed
I'll say this again, had I asked for a section on science fiction, or stamp collecting, or vegas for locals, would you raise the same fuss?
This isn't a stamp collecting board. It isn't a "science fiction bosar." And everything from license plates to "Smokey and the Bandit" to any number of things has been covered in "Free Speech" or one of the "misc" board since opening day very well
There IS a section of "Vegas for Locals."
None of your arguments makes any sense here.
to but into any GLBT thread and post in them.
Quote:
I hope I've made myself clear. If you want to rant about "special rights" and "privileges" that's your choice, but don't expect me to waste any more time on it.
No need to waste more time on it--your posts make it clear your preference is for special rights and privleges, here on the board and elsewhere.
Quote: Nareed
I hope I've made myself clear. If you want to rant about "special rights" and "privileges" that's your choice,
I don't want any special rights or privileges, thats what you're doing. You're the one that made the statement that Gay's have 'special interests', not me. If I said hetero's had 'special interests', you'd have a cow. You'd call me a homophobe. You say now that you wouldn't, but thats what you have to say now that you've painted yourself into a corner. You still haven't answered the question, do you want to be treated like everybody else like you've been screaming at us for the last 20 years, or do want special treatment? Which is it?
Quote: EvenBobIf I said hetero's had 'special interests', you'd have a cow. You'd call me a homophobe. You say now that you wouldn't, but thats what you have to say now that you've painted yourself into a corner.
Gee, I didn't mount a sufficient defense for whatever you'd already hypothetically convicted me of in your mind?
As for the rest, I gave you an answer, you just didn't like it.
Quote: AZDuffmanI am merely tired of seeing gay themes everytime I turn around.
You know, you'd be a little less tired of it if you didn't jump on every GLBT thread that comes along.
I don't have a problem with BDSM, well, not with the BD part anyway.
Quote: NareedGee, I didn't mount a sufficient defense for whatever you'd already hypothetically convicted me of in your mind?
So you think hetero's have special interests, different from Gay interests, outside of sexual choice? Like what, give some examples.
Quote: EvenBobSo you think hetero's have special interests, different from Gay interests, outside of sexual choice? Like what, give some examples.
Getting your wife pregnant. That's not a concern for gays.
Happy?
BTW does getting beat to a pulp or to death by some of the less tolerant people count as a special right or is it a privilege? It's certainly special treatment.
Quote: Nareed
BTW does getting beat to a pulp or to death by some of the less tolerant people
You mean what happens to Blacks, Christians, retarded people, Jews, and many others in parts of the world every day? You think you're different from them and deserve special treatment? is that what you mean?
>>Getting your wife pregnant. That's not a concern for gays.>>
There are no Gay men married to women? What planet are you on?
Quote: EvenBobYou mean what happens to Blacks, Christians, retarded people, Jews, and many others in parts of the world every day? You think you're different from them and deserve special treatment? is that what you mean?
So now the right not be beaten to death is special treatment?
Listen to yourself.
Quote: NareedSo now the right not be beaten to death is special treatment?
\
You stated it like Gays were the only ones that it happens to, like they should be singled out to be felt sorry for more than any other group that suffers the same intolerance. Thats how you're acting anyway. Your post was like 'boo hoo, they beat us to death'. Thats terrible, but not any more terrible than the Christian that got beaten to death today in a Muslim village somewhere, or the woman who got stoned to death in Iran for letting herself get raped.
Quote: EvenBobYou stated it like Gays were the only ones that it happens to, like they should be singled out to be felt sorry for more than any other group that suffers the same intolerance. Thats how you're acting anyway. Your post was like 'boo hoo, they beat us to death'. Thats terrible, but not any more terrible than the Christian that got beaten to death today in a Muslim village somewhere, or the woman who got stoned to death in Iran for letting herself get raped.
These extreme examples you provide are terrible. They are also happening in countries based in different belief systems than the traditional Christian and American values.
Quote: CroupierThese extreme examples you provide are terrible. They are also happening in countries based in different belief systems than the traditional Christian and American values.
And you're point is what. That its OK to beat somebody to death if you have a good reason?
Quote: CroupierMy point is that as far as I am aware our culture should have advanced sufficiently beyond beating people to death at all.
Who do you think is in all those maximum security prisons, shoplifters? They haven't heard of your theory, apparently.
Quote: EvenBobWho do you think is in all those maximum security prisons, shoplifters? They haven't heard of your theory, apparently.
Maybe not. But I would put a large amount of money that its not GBLT people asking for their own section to discuss the GBLT scene in Las Vegas on a site dedicated to Las Vegas.
Quote: CroupierMaybe not. But I would put a large amount of money that its not GBLT people asking for their own section to discuss the GBLT scene in Las Vegas on a site dedicated to Las Vegas.
Its like talking to a wall, except the wall is more logical.
Never mind.
Quote: EvenBobIts like talking to a wall, except the wall is more logical.
Never mind.
I can honestly say the same. Its why I stopped talking to myself.
Ill try it this way.
There is a Sports Betting section for Sports Bettors, There is a Strip Club section for those interested in going to Strip Clubs. Why the outrage against the GBLT section of society for a section that could be used to discuss gay specific venues or topics. Especially when this keeps it out of other discussions where people that could be offended by it.
And I didnt myself understand why the Christians persecuted in Muslim countries and woman who was stoned after being (as you cannot allow yourself to be raped by definition) raped came into the equation. Maybe you could explain.
If it was to illustrate how other groups or people that are not GBLT are punished for supposed transgressions, then I think you are comparing apples to oranges.
But it is also completely likely I have missed the point, in which case enlighten me.
Quote: CroupierWhy the outrage against the GBLT section of society for a section that could be used to discuss gay specific venues or topics. .
BECAUSE, if we asked for a special hetero section, or a special White section, you would cry bloody murder, thats why. You say over and over and over that you're the same as everybody and please to treat you that way. Now you're saying you're not like everybody else, we should think about you differently and treat you differently. Make up your minds. And in Iran, when a woman is raped, the law says its her fault, she let herself be raped by going out without male protection. You really should get a perspective outside of your obvious narrow view.
Whenever we discuss some hot babes, or how we will attract them with our big bets, or whatever, that essentially is a 'hetero' section, we just don't call it as such. I know I would be devastated if either of my sons was gay, but I would hope that society would let them find happiness, and I hope I would not let my personal feelings interfere with their happiness, and if adding a GBLT section here helps Nareed, then let's let him have it. I don't see the harm it causes any of the rest of us.
Quote: SOOPOOAfter much thought, I am coming out ( no pun intended) on Nareed's side. As long as the new section has a gambling/vegas theme, it seems appropriate. They might address which hotels are the most 'gay friendly', what bars are the same, etc. Are there any areas of the city to specifically avoid, any companies that are not 'gay friendly', etc.
That's part of it. There will be other things as well, I hope.
I do wish to thank your for your support and your kind words.
I've to say I was taken aback by the hostility from some members here. Not at the volume, but at the intensity. I'm also overwhelmed by the support shown by people like you, Croupier, DJTeddyBear, Mosca and of course the Wizard (If I left anyone out it's from a faulty memory and not an intentional slight). It feels great to know that I am welcome here by people I like and respect and whom I've gotten to know a bit. And in the face of that, the hostility doesn't matter.
Thank you all for making this forum such a nice place.
