British covid: it's here
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/28/us-confirms-first-case-of-the-new-covid-strain-discovered-in-uk-.html
Have seen no comment on whether effects rather transmissibility are more or less severe on average or more or less asymptomatic which would be at least as important, so really beyond that there’s a different strain they just don’t know or haven’t publicly provided enough at this point to move it outside what would be considered more or less speculation.
Quote: DRichHas there been any reporting on how this new version is reacting to the vaccines on the market?
They’re saying the vaccines will still be reasonably effective but could be less effective. No sort of specific trials or anything that I’m aware of.
1) There is no question that it is MUCH more transmissible than the present incarnation.
2) Unless the world is magically vaccinated as a whole overnight, the virus will continue to evolve in a manner that evades vaccines. That's the job of a virus, unfortunately.
3) The rough estimates of covid global death rates have not been mentioned publicly much. For those over 70 who are infected, the death rate appears to be about 10%. For those over 80, closer to 20%.
I said this nine months ago, and sad to say it's time to say it again...buckle up. The worst is yet to come.
There are already something like 30 strains of coronavirus with varying levels of severity. This one is not unusual or significantly worse than other variants, and the vaccine is expected to work just fine with all of them.
Quote: gamerfreakFrom what I have read this is way overhyped by the media.
There are already something like 30 strains of coronavirus with varying levels of severity. This one is not unusual or significantly worse than other variants, and the vaccine is expected to work just fine with all of them.
I don't know your source but this strain has just shut down england
We were already on a shutdown trajectory anyway. This has simply become the dominant strain here. Though it's being referred to as The British Variant, that is not because it originated here, but because it was sequenced and identified here. From initial mutation to identification, probably took months. Months in which international travel will have taken it to every part of the world. It will probably be the global dominant strain already.Quote: darkozI don't know your source but this strain has just shut down england
Transmissability is much increased R0 is much higher. Currently uncertain if it's more or less lethal, but more cases = more hospitalisations and more deaths, especially as health care systems get over-run.
Currently my local hospitals are pretty much closed to anything scheduled or elective. Cancer treatments and routine treatments are postponed indefinitely. Hospitals are not places we would want to go to except for absolute life or death situations.
To any who don't believe the crisis is real, I suggest you go and get a coffee at the vending machine or cafe at your local hospital.
General Practice doctors surgeries, here, are operating pretty much as video consultations only for most things.
I had to take elderly relative to her doctors a few times after fall injuries. The entire practice was one-in one-out with virtually empty waiting rooms, but queuing outside in the rain. It actually made a pleasant change compared to sitting in a busy waiting room with lots of sick people.
Our Accident and Emergency walk-in services now require you to ring ahead for a time slot, so as not to have internal queues.
Hospitals are critically low on admission beds and folks are getting triaged and treated in ambulances. Obviously that means ambulance response times are pretty grim, so don't have an accident or a heart attack.
Local pharmacies, medical centres and conference facilities are rapidly being converted to vaccination centres. Our major cities already have Nightingale Hospitals on standby. These are conference centres that have been equipped as overflow hospitals, earlier in the year.
ETA for elderly family member to get vaccine is about 21 days. ETA for me to get it is around May.
A certain established member here declined to wager that he would get the vaccine before me.
Yes. Initial indicators from Astra Zeneca is that their vaccine is likely to be equally effective. I understand that Phizer are optimistic too, though it's early days.Quote: DRichHas there been any reporting on how this new version is reacting to the vaccines on the market?
For the record, this new variant does not affect me any differently. I'm an anti-social social distanced Brit.
Masks here are almost universally accepted. I wear N95 or N99, and feel perfectly safe whenever indoors away from home.
I've avoided bar's and restaurants and barbers and gym since March and have found equally satisfying but different ways to live.
Looking forward to a brighter summer, which I won't waste like so many previous ones.
Quote: OnceDearWe were already on a shutdown trajectory anyway. This has simply become the dominant strain here. Though it's being referred to as The British Variant, that is not because it originated here, but because it was sequenced and identified here. From initial mutation to identification, probably took months. Months in which international travel will have taken it to every part of the world. It will probably be the global dominant strain already.
Transmissability is much increased R0 is much higher. Currently uncertain if it's more or less lethal, but more cases = more hospitalisations and more deaths, especially as health care systems get over-run.
Currently my local hospitals are pretty much closed to anything scheduled or elective. Cancer treatments and routine treatments are postponed indefinitely. Hospitals are not places we would want to go to except for absolute life or death situations.
To any who don't believe the crisis is real, I suggest you go and get a coffee at the vending machine or cafe at your local hospital.
General Practice doctors surgeries, here, are operating pretty much as video consultations only for most things.
I had to take elderly relative to her doctors a few times after fall injuries. The entire practice was one-in one-out with virtually empty waiting rooms, but queuing outside in the rain. It actually made a pleasant change compared to sitting in a busy waiting room with lots of sick people.
Our Accident and Emergency walk-in services now require you to ring ahead for a time slot, so as not to have internal queues.
Hospitals are critically low on admission beds and folks are getting triaged and treated in ambulances. Obviously that means ambulance response times are pretty grim, so don't have an accident or a heart attack.
Local pharmacies, medical centres and conference facilities are rapidly being converted to vaccination centres. Our major cities already have Nightingale Hospitals on standby. These are conference centres that have been equipped as overflow hospitals, earlier in the year.
ETA for elderly family member to get vaccine is about 21 days. ETA for me to get it is around May.
A certain established member here declined to wager that he would get the vaccine before me.
The variant strain may have originated with the minks (remember them?). That story was hot, then died. There was a reason it was a big deal. I suggest to get up to speed, one consult international interviews. The South Koreans are especially good at being straight with people.
No, but I did find the term offensive.Quote: AZDuffmanIsn't there a site rule against calling it "British" covid?
Quote: OnceDearNo, but I did find the term offensive.
That was the point although not because I wanted to be offensive.
I was trying to demonstrate why calling it the Chinese flu or other similar names was offensive.
This is an important question. Do we know to social distance by 12 feet? Will face shields help? Can someone give us something more than a voodoo hand wave on why this is more transmissible?
Quote: gordonm888I accept that it is more transmissible. But, why is it more transmissible?
This is an important question. Do we know to social distance by 12 feet? Will face shields help? Can someone give us something more than a voodoo hand wave on why this is more transmissible?
I googled that earlier. I don't think they know as yet. It could have a longer latency period where people who don't know they have it can spread it for longer periods of time. Or it could be for some other reason.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: Keyser
The location where the virus originated and it's use in describing the disease should not be offensive to anyone.
The virus originated in Wuhan China.
Agreed, What is the big deal giving it a descriptive name based on where it came from? What's next, we cannot say we are "Ordering Chinese" when we get takeaway?
And now:
Quote: AZDuffmanIsn't there a site rule against calling it "British" covid?
I think it has a very nice ring to it.Quote: OnceDearNo, but I did find the term offensive.
Quote: darkozThat was the point although not because I wanted to be offensive.
I was trying to demonstrate why calling it the Chinese flu or other similar names was offensive.
And we have made the point that some name are offensive and some are not even when they are the same thing.
All animals are created equal............
Quote: AZDuffmanAnd we have made the point that some name are offensive and some are not even when they are the same thing.
All animals are created equal............
Point well taken... Not!
Quote: darkozPoint well taken... Not!
He probably knows negative branding in business is usually a bad idea, but apparently not in people, cities or countries. Let him twist himself into a pretzel trying to explain why there would be any difference.
Quote: darkozPoint well taken... Not!
So it is offensive if it involves China but not Britain?
I am confused.
Quote: AZDuffmanSo it is offensive if it involves China but not Britain?
I am confused.
Are you saying you were being offensive when you said in the past it's okay to call it the China virus?
I'm confused.
Quote: darkozAre you saying you were being offensive when you said in the past it's okay to call it the China virus?
I'm confused.
Well, let me unconfuse you.
I am asking why management here said there would be a suspension for calling it "china virus" but seems fine with "british virus" or whatever part of Britain it is being named after. Are they not concerned a bunch of rednecks are going to attack some Brits they find, which was a reason given for the previous ban?
Quote: AZDuffmanWell, let me unconfuse you.
I am asking why management here said there would be a suspension for calling it "china virus" but seems fine with "british virus" or whatever part of Britain it is being named after. Are they not concerned a bunch of rednecks are going to attack some Brits they find, which was a reason given for the previous ban?
I doubt they are concerned about some rednecks attacking brits
Quote: AZDuffmanWell, let me unconfuse you.
I am asking why management here said there would be a suspension for calling it "china virus" but seems fine with "british virus" or whatever part of Britain it is being named after. Are they not concerned a bunch of rednecks are going to attack some Brits they find, which was a reason given for the previous ban?
I can't say that I have been closely following this forum the last few weeks. But, I can't see an instance of a mod saying that phrase is not allowed (not using it on purpose in case it is a rule). I know on DT it is used nonstop by some..... So I don't see it being banned here....
Is it wrong to say MERS? (Middle East Respiratory Syndrome)? (which is also a coronavirus, and also probably spread to humans from eating bats and camels....).
A lot of medical stuff is named after its (presumed) origin, I don't see the issue as long as it is the official name (which the phrase in question is not to be fair, and if it is used as a slur, I can see why it would be banned).
Anyone that says otherwise is merely being pretentious and is "virtue signaling".
I'm not offended by a virus named after a location, which is yet another reason why I'm happier than people that are so easily offended.
Quote: KeyserThere's absolutely nothing wrong with calling Covid-19 the China Virus, or the Wu Flu. There's also nothing wrong with referring to the British variant.
Anyone that says otherwise is merely being pretentious and is "virtue signaling".
I'm not offended by a virus named after a location, which is yet another reason why I'm happier than people that are so easily offended.
Can I just call you whatever I want because it's not offensive to me?
If not why not?
When people started using derogatory associations whether minor ones or major, it was always fine with the person using it.
OK. I'm 'management' here and I'm a Brit. AIUI, that puts me in a reasonable position to determine if the term 'British covid' is offensive.Quote: AZDuffmanWell, let me unconfuse you.
I am asking why management here said there would be a suspension for calling it "china virus" but seems fine with "british virus" or whatever part of Britain it is being named after. Are they not concerned a bunch of rednecks are going to attack some Brits they find, which was a reason given for the previous ban?
I do see it as offensive and I'll explain why. That will require a brief mention of politics, for which I apologise.
Certain Americans have used the term China Virus alongside very clear 'Blaming' of the Chinese nature for the virus. Certainly far from crediting the Chinese for identifying or gene sequencing the threat. Those same Americans were demonising China, and by extension anyone of Chinese ethnicity. By any stretch of the imagination, that was hostile and offensive.
Now, we Brits have identified a new strain, mostly because we needed to, when we saw it's characteristics here. It's a similar situation to Denmark identifying a strain in Danish mink farms. To call that the Danish Covid would demonise the Danish, but no-one seemed to see any fun or political capital in that.
Imagine for a moment that one day, you came home from the office and found you had headlice. Now obviously, you were not causative of the infestation of your place of work, but if you went to the office next day and advised your colleagues that they might need to use an anti-lice shampoo, would you be grateful if you were to be immortalised with the expression 'Duffman's nits'? That would not be giving you credit, but would be deriding you. You would rightly be offended every-time you heard that term.
I chose not to suspend or act on the OP for using the term British Covid even though I saw it as offensive. It was insensitive and possibly ignorant, but the rules here do not preclude insensitivity or ignorance or maybe unintended racism. That another moderator suspended for the racist, ignorant or insensitive 'China Virus' barb is his prerogative and I'm guessing it related to the alignment of that comment with the racism of a certain high profile celebrity.
Incidentally, I would not use the term 'Rednecks' because I understand that may be offensive to Southern Americans. Similarly I would tend not describe my American associates as Yanks, because that is mildly perjorative in the wrong context. But yes. There might well have been an attempt to stir up racist attacks on Brit's by ignorant Americans, just as there was racist hostility to Chinese or even Chinese looking persons after similar incitement.
Quote: OnceDearOK. I'm 'management' here and I'm a Brit. AIUI, that puts me in a reasonable position to determine if the term 'British covid' is offensive.
I do see it as offensive and I'll explain why. That will require a brief mention of politics, for which I apologise.
Certain Americans have used the term China Virus alongside very clear 'Blaming' of the Chinese nature for the virus. Certainly far from crediting the Chinese for identifying or gene sequencing the threat. Those same Americans were demonising China, and by extension anyone of Chinese ethnicity. By any stretch of the imagination, that was hostile and offensive.
Now, we Brits have identified a new strain, mostly because we needed to, when we saw it's characteristics here. It's a similar situation to Denmark identifying a strain in Danish mink farms. To call that the Danish Covid would demonise the Danish, but no-one seemed to see any fun or political capital in that.
Imagine for a moment that one day, you came home from the office and found you had headlice. Now obviously, you were not causative of the infestation of your place of work, but if you went to the office next day and advised your colleagues that they might need to use an anti-lice shampoo, would you be grateful if you were to be immortalised with the expression 'Duffman's nits'? That would not be giving you credit, but would be deriding you. You would rightly be offended every-time you heard that term.
I chose not to suspend or act on the OP for using the term British Covid even though I saw it as offensive. It was insensitive and possibly ignorant, but the rules here do not preclude insensitivity or ignorance or maybe unintended racism. That another moderator suspended for the racist, ignorant or insensitive 'China Virus' barb is his prerogative and I'm guessing it related to the alignment of that comment with the racism of a certain high profile celebrity.
Incidentally, I would not use the term 'Rednecks' because I understand that may be offensive to Southern Americans. Similarly I would tend not describe my American associates as Yanks, because that is mildly perjorative in the wrong context. But yes. There might well have been an attempt to stir up racist attacks on Brit's by ignorant Americans, just as there was racist hostility to Chinese or even Chinese looking persons after similar incitement.
I was trying to show the hypocrisy of those who were insistent on calling it the China virus this Spring.
Upon retrospect, I went about it the wrong way
Let this serve as an apology if you or anyone was offended
No problem. Thanks. You at least got the topic aired.Quote: darkozI was trying to show the hypocrisy of those who were insistent on calling it the China virus this Spring.
Upon retrospect, I went about it the wrong way
Let this serve as an apology if you or anyone was offended
Quote: OnceDear
I chose not to suspend or act on the OP for using the term British Covid even though I saw it as offensive. It was insensitive and possibly ignorant, but the rules here do not preclude insensitivity or ignorance or maybe unintended racism. That another moderator suspended for the racist, ignorant or insensitive 'China Virus' barb is his prerogative and I'm guessing it related to the alignment of that comment with the racism of a certain high profile celebrity.
Only responding to part of this.
I do not know that anyone got suspended for saying "china virus" but I do remember being warned we would if we did. Your wording of "her (corrected) prerogative" is where my problem lies. If we are going to have this kind of rule it should be universal, not a particular moderator deciding all animals are equal but some are more equal than others.
The "rednecks" comment was made because one reason given for not allowing "china virus" was supposed attacks on Chinese people by what whoever brought it up would call them "rednecks." IOW, demonstrating absurdity by being absurd.
I have brought up what I consider Barb's biased moderation before.
Is "china virus" allowed now? Is "british virus" banned? Or are all animals equal but some are more equal than others?
I will probably not suspend for either, but would discourage both. YMMV.Quote: AZDuffmanIs "china virus" allowed now? Is "british virus" banned? Or are all animals equal but some are more equal than others?
Each case is decided by whichever moderator chooses to act, or not.
You now know the risk.
I've already made clear my opinion that both terms are offensive to me. Some members, and moderators, have expressed opposing opinions. I respect all those views.
Quote: OnceDearOK. I'm 'management' here and I'm a Brit. AIUI, that puts me in a reasonable position to determine if the term 'British covid' is offensive.
I do see it as offensive and I'll explain why. That will require a brief mention of politics, for which I apologise.
Certain Americans have used the term China Virus alongside very clear 'Blaming' of the Chinese nature for the virus. Certainly far from crediting the Chinese for identifying or gene sequencing the threat. Those same Americans were demonising China, and by extension anyone of Chinese ethnicity. By any stretch of the imagination, that was hostile and offensive.
Now, we Brits have identified a new strain, mostly because we needed to, when we saw it's characteristics here. It's a similar situation to Denmark identifying a strain in Danish mink farms. To call that the Danish Covid would demonise the Danish, but no-one seemed to see any fun or political capital in that.
Imagine for a moment that one day, you came home from the office and found you had headlice. Now obviously, you were not causative of the infestation of your place of work, but if you went to the office next day and advised your colleagues that they might need to use an anti-lice shampoo, would you be grateful if you were to be immortalised with the expression 'Duffman's nits'? That would not be giving you credit, but would be deriding you. You would rightly be offended every-time you heard that term.
I chose not to suspend or act on the OP for using the term British Covid even though I saw it as offensive. It was insensitive and possibly ignorant, but the rules here do not preclude insensitivity or ignorance or maybe unintended racism. That another moderator suspended for the racist, ignorant or insensitive 'China Virus' barb is his prerogative and I'm guessing it related to the alignment of that comment with the racism of a certain high profile celebrity.
Incidentally, I would not use the term 'Rednecks' because I understand that may be offensive to Southern Americans. Similarly I would tend not describe my American associates as Yanks, because that is mildly perjorative in the wrong context. But yes. There might well have been an attempt to stir up racist attacks on Brit's by ignorant Americans, just as there was racist hostility to Chinese or even Chinese looking persons after similar incitement.
Sorry, but the Chinese gov needs to be held accountable for what they've done.
They are responsible for the Chinese Virus/Wu Flu and I'd like to see more sanctions on them for it.
Quote: HunterhillSo is it now against the rules to say Lou Gehrig’s disease ?
It was actually a name of honor. A memorial to a great baseball player who died from an obscure disease.
I.e. no one was saying "that Lou Gehrig gave us a terrible disease. What a nasty man,"
Quote: KeyserSorry, but the Chinese gov needs to be held accountable for what they've done.
They are responsible for the Chinese Virus/Wu Flu and I'd like to see more sanctions on them for it.
I see no problem with labeling the specific entity with the blame. But China Virus is no more blaming the the Chinese government than calling something the USA virus or Yankee virus.
Negative nicknames for enemies is as old as history. But the general ones always end up being harmful to people who had nothing to do with the original offense. And there's no reason for them as the origins of the disease, if known, are in the data about the disease.
Some American Japanese who had no sympathies with Imperial Japan suffered from negative stereotypes meant for enemies. Tell me how often these general negative associations end up being targeted only at the guilty, and I will change my mind.
When trying to determine whether the R-number is getting worse, I look at the number of deaths rather than [detected] cases. The latter is an earlier indicator of a change, so more useful, but also you need to factor in there are now more tests. Nevertheless both numbers have been rising considerably. The UK news (9pm) also reports the US numbers have been rising.
England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland each have their own rules. Where I live we are now in the highest "Tier 4" so essentially in lockdown.
On the source of the variant, there is a useful page which gives some background:
Here are the UK numbers for the last three months, note there are spikes as fewer are reported at weekends:Quote: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55388846...It was first detected in September. In November around a quarter of cases in London were the new variant. This reached nearly two-thirds of cases in mid-December. ... It is thought the variant either emerged in a patient in the UK or has been imported from a country with a lower ability to monitor coronavirus mutations.
The variant can be found across the UK, except Northern Ireland, but it is heavily concentrated in London, the South East and eastern England. Cases elsewhere in the country do not seem to have taken off.
Quote: darkozIt was actually a name of honor. A memorial to a great baseball player who died from an obscure disease.
I.e. no one was saying "that Lou Gehrig gave us a terrible disease. What a nasty man,"
Wait so are you calling me a nasty man?
If so I take offense to that and ask that you be suspended
Quote: HunterhillWait so are you calling me a nasty man?
If so I take offense to that and ask that you be suspended
If you see the quotations clearly show I am quoting anonymous people about their feelings of Lou Gehrig in that post
I was being a little sarcastic in my post but if the virus did originate in China or this new strain in Britain I just don’t see the big deal in calling them the Chinese virus or the British virus.
