Man Shot Dead - Mattress Dispute
September 23rd, 2018 at 2:38:36 AM
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shot dead in front of his wife and kids
Please don't feed the trolls
September 23rd, 2018 at 2:56:18 AM
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Lol at how they try to make it seem like the father and son are the bad guys. It's called self defense. That (dead) guy had a baseball bat and was in the process of attacking them.
Not sure about any of you, but if I have a gun in my hand and someone's swinging a bat at my or someone else's head, I'm unloading the clip.
Not sure about any of you, but if I have a gun in my hand and someone's swinging a bat at my or someone else's head, I'm unloading the clip.
September 23rd, 2018 at 3:05:38 AM
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Quote: RSsomeone's swinging a bat at my or someone else's head, I'm unloading the clip.
you jumped to conclusions. I read several stories about it. some said he had a bat, but none said he was swinging it.
from the linked article:
"As tempers flare, Box steps in between her husband and John Miller. Howard’s brother has handed him a baseball bat by this time, but he never swung it, his wife said."
of course it's his wife saying this and she's likely to be biased but there is no evidence or anybody stating that he swung the bat in several stories that I read.
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/fort-worth/article218728710.html
Please don't feed the trolls
September 23rd, 2018 at 3:18:33 AM
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Yes I'm jumping to conclusions. I did read some articles on it before, though. But I have a hunch that the guy wasn't like, "Okay, he's backing away....and even though this is on camera, this is the perfect time to shoot! Get him!!!!" Judging by the aggressiveness and demeanor of the lunatic, I'd say he was either swinging or getting close to swinging.
September 23rd, 2018 at 4:27:47 AM
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Quote: RSLol at how they try to make it seem like the father and son are the bad guys. It's called self defense. That (dead) guy had a baseball bat and was in the process of attacking them.
Not sure about any of you, but if I have a gun in my hand and someone's swinging a bat at my or someone else's head, I'm unloading the clip.
A clip is what is used to load a magazine. It holds multiple rounds to make loading easier. Unloading a clip at someone might make a slight scratch. Maybe if you threw it at their eye it could incapacitate them for a minute.
ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
September 23rd, 2018 at 6:19:44 AM
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i'm guessing the wording of the warning is why it is not self defense,
Keep coming at me and I may have to shoot you suggesting you will feel mortal threat at some point and it might even be reasonable to shoot someone even at 10 feet if they are charging you.
Get within 3 feet and I will shoot you is a threat itself. It's a demand,
Otherwise why are they charged with murder if it's self-defense?
Keep coming at me and I may have to shoot you suggesting you will feel mortal threat at some point and it might even be reasonable to shoot someone even at 10 feet if they are charging you.
Get within 3 feet and I will shoot you is a threat itself. It's a demand,
Otherwise why are they charged with murder if it's self-defense?
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
September 23rd, 2018 at 6:20:59 AM
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I saw one video.
Didn't see any baseball bat.
Saw someone quite upset about a gun being drawn in the presence of his son (age unknown).
Instead of yelling at man who drew firearm he should have gotten his son out of the way if he was really concerned.
Issues are was it legal to draw the firearm and was it lawful to use it, not did presence of some presumably minor son alter those rights.
He drew. He even warned. Then he shot.
Apparently someone had put a mattress in or near a dumpster. Probably not lawful but there was no dispute over the mattress itself.
Didn't see any baseball bat.
Saw someone quite upset about a gun being drawn in the presence of his son (age unknown).
Instead of yelling at man who drew firearm he should have gotten his son out of the way if he was really concerned.
Issues are was it legal to draw the firearm and was it lawful to use it, not did presence of some presumably minor son alter those rights.
He drew. He even warned. Then he shot.
Apparently someone had put a mattress in or near a dumpster. Probably not lawful but there was no dispute over the mattress itself.
September 23rd, 2018 at 6:32:42 AM
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Stand your ground suggests it's just as reasonable to stand and argue with your irate neighbor over a mattress until one of you is dead instead of walking away and calling the cops?
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
September 23rd, 2018 at 7:16:11 AM
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I thought we were discussing legality rather than reasonableness.Quote: rxwineStand your ground suggests it's just as reasonable
Pot bellied good old boys appearing in public shirtless are probably not good candidates for discussions about anything 'reasonable'. The only reasonableness they focus on is: be without your shirt if you want, without your shorts if you want, but never be without your gun. In Texas that may indeed be quite reasonable.
September 23rd, 2018 at 7:39:43 AM
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I just watched the the video at .25 speed and at the 2:15 to 2:16 mark, it looks like a bat was thrown at the father- hitting him on his right side, before the son fired his shotgun.
September 23rd, 2018 at 8:06:29 AM
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Both sides are pathetic. Walk the F away it's really not that hard. He deserves to be dead and they deserve to be in jail for life.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed.
I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
September 23rd, 2018 at 8:41:59 AM
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Moral of the story: "Don't bring a bat to a gun fight."
"What, me worry?"
September 23rd, 2018 at 9:21:42 AM
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At least you can squeeze a trigger more than once.
Someone who in frustration and anger flings a baseball bat at the ankles of an armed man is a fool. He gave up his one and only weapon and there is no way he can retrieve the bat and use it as a weapon.
This has played out before in a few notorious cases.
Someone who in frustration and anger flings a baseball bat at the ankles of an armed man is a fool. He gave up his one and only weapon and there is no way he can retrieve the bat and use it as a weapon.
This has played out before in a few notorious cases.
September 23rd, 2018 at 9:54:21 AM
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I hate to get political, but either of them could have easily deescalated the situation by yelling, "MAGA," and firing their guns into the air. It would have turned into a BBQ block party almost instantly. There is very little doubt in my mind that all three of those guys are/were ardent Trump supporters. Maybe the Millers will get a pardon.
Those idiots definitely both needed to own guns, though, personal protection. Second Amendment, baby!
(Actually, I'm all for gun ownership rights of those types of guns after a psychiatric evaluation)
BONUS EDIT!!!:
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/09/23/men-who-allegedly-shot-neighbor-in-mattress-dispute-arrested-again-after-video-surfaces/
This is literally the precise opposite of a, "Private matter."
AND:
The story got it wrong. The children being referred to are probably his nieces and nephews AND his kids, simultaneously.
Those idiots definitely both needed to own guns, though, personal protection. Second Amendment, baby!
(Actually, I'm all for gun ownership rights of those types of guns after a psychiatric evaluation)
BONUS EDIT!!!:
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/09/23/men-who-allegedly-shot-neighbor-in-mattress-dispute-arrested-again-after-video-surfaces/
Quote:“I really don’t have a comment one way or the other,” John Miller said by phone. “This is something that I consider a private matter between me and the state of Texas.”
This is literally the precise opposite of a, "Private matter."
AND:
Quote:In an interview with the Star-Telegram, Box said Howard was protective of his family, especially his nieces and nephews – to whom he refers as “my kids” in the video.
The story got it wrong. The children being referred to are probably his nieces and nephews AND his kids, simultaneously.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
September 23rd, 2018 at 10:03:40 AM
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I really feel for the guy's kids.
got to be real hard on a kid to see his dad get gunned down like that.
got to be real hard on a kid to see his dad get gunned down like that.
Please don't feed the trolls
September 23rd, 2018 at 10:13:50 AM
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Quote: lilredroosterI really feel for the guy's kids.
got to be real hard on a kid to see his dad get gunned down like that.
He doesn't have kids. They are nieces and nephews.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed.
I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
September 23rd, 2018 at 10:21:30 AM
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Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
September 23rd, 2018 at 10:27:56 AM
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Or "plant sh** seeds ya get sh** weeds" Mr. LaheyQuote: gamerfreakPlay stupid games, win stupid prizes.
September 23rd, 2018 at 10:58:45 AM
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Quote: GWAEHe deserves to be dead
very tough talk. last time I checked you weren't God.
Please don't feed the trolls
September 23rd, 2018 at 11:03:35 AM
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Quote: lilredroostervery tough talk. last time I checked you weren't God.
***Looks at nieces and nephews***
Quote: The Deceased-ProbablyI'm going to show you kids how you handle people coming at you with guns LIKE A MAN!!!
I'm going to have to say I'm with GWAE on this one. Darwinism gonna Darwinism, sometimes.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
September 23rd, 2018 at 11:06:18 AM
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The guy did say he was gonna kill both of them. Maybe they believed him. Anyway, that guy was a special kind of stupid. If you are arguing with someone and guns come out, you don't have one, it's time to leave.
September 23rd, 2018 at 11:11:19 AM
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Quote: Mission146
(Actually, I'm all for gun ownership rights of those types of guns after a psychiatric evaluation)
hey, do you think one of those struggling shrinks right out of school might say the guy is good to go if he pays him $350 for the appointment?
kind of like the docs who freely prescribe oxycodone and percocet after you pay the $150 appointment charge?
Please don't feed the trolls
September 23rd, 2018 at 11:18:17 AM
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Quote: MaxPenThe guy did say he was gonna kill both of them. Maybe they believed him. Anyway, that guy was a special kind of stupid. If you are arguing with someone and guns come out, you don't have one, it's time to leave.
That's not handling it LIKE A MAN, MaxPen.
I agree with you 100%, obviously. I also think that it's pretty obvious that Cletus and Jethro would take any excuse they could get to blow that guy to hell, especially the father, so maybe he should consider dropping the baseball bat before yelling at them, if he's going to yell at them at all. I really think that the older one wanted nothing more than to shoot him, but he was going to wait for an opportunity to claim that he shot in self-defense. I think that's why he keeps challenging the deceased to, "Take your swing."
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
September 23rd, 2018 at 11:19:45 AM
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Quote: lilredroosterhey, do you think one of those struggling shrinks right out of school might say the guy is good to go if he pays him $350 for the appointment?
kind of like the docs who freely prescribe oxycodone and percocet after you pay the $150 appointment charge?
It could be malpractice like anything else, depending on the specifics of the situation. Hell, maybe those guys would pass the psych test, but it certainly couldn't hurt to have one.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
September 23rd, 2018 at 11:26:19 AM
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I had to look this up: Clip vs. Magazine: What’s the Difference?.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
September 23rd, 2018 at 11:27:35 AM
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It's easy to pass a psyche test if you just don't tell them about the voices in your head.
September 23rd, 2018 at 11:32:47 AM
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Quote: Mission146Darwinism gonna Darwinism, sometimes.
Darwinism - survival of the fittest - a great 𝐦𝐲𝐭𝐡 at least when it comes to humans.
lots and lots of weak humans out there - millions. a high % survive
Romans 15:1 - English Standard Version
"We who are strong have an obligation to bear with the failings of the weak, and not to please ourselves."
Please don't feed the trolls
September 23rd, 2018 at 12:26:20 PM
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Quote: lilredroosterDarwinism - survival of the fittest - a great 𝐦𝐲𝐭𝐡 at least when it comes to humans.
lots and lots of weak humans out there - millions. a high % survive
Romans 15:1 - English Standard Version
"We who are strong have an obligation to bear with the failings of the weak, and not to please ourselves."
I'm honestly not sure what your point is. I agree that it's a myth when it comes to humans, I was just making a joke, really. It's just not a great idea to antagonize people with firearms when you're unarmed, it's hard for me not to believe that guy just wanted to look like a badass in that situation.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
September 23rd, 2018 at 12:47:17 PM
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Never a good idea to threaten the lives of angry people who are carrying guns.
I’m guessing this would have gone differently had his wife not been filming the whole encounter. That probably gave him a false sense of security.
I’m guessing this would have gone differently had his wife not been filming the whole encounter. That probably gave him a false sense of security.
Ding Dong the Witch is Dead
September 23rd, 2018 at 1:33:17 PM
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Quote: Mission146It's just not a great idea to antagonize people with firearms when you're unarmed, it's hard for me not to believe that guy just wanted to look like a badass in that situation.
I believe you can frustrate the hell out of someone while unarmed by practicing spitting, IF that guy had been a trained spitter he could continuously launch loogies at them while they try to stand their ground, If you're an ego driven tough guy letting someone spit on you is a insult too great to bare.
While you might get shot, it's unlikely they won't get charged with murder. Or if they want to come pistol whip you, they won't get away with that either probably.
low tech solution to frustrate guys with high tech weapons
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
September 23rd, 2018 at 1:44:17 PM
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Quote: MaxPenThe guy did say he was gonna kill both of them. Maybe they believed him. Anyway, that guy was a special kind of stupid. If you are arguing with someone and guns come out, you don't have one, it's time to leave.
right... I know 100% the first thing that I am doing when someone pulls a gun is running the f away.
I used to manage an Aaron's sales and lease. I would go collecting in the toughest parts of town. I was 25 and thought that I was tough s#$&. I can remember banging on a door in a really bad part of town. Guy comes to the door, says come in and get your S@#$, then lifts his shirt to show me his gun in his waist. I was like F it, you can just keep your washer and dryer. Driving away I saw a cop at a gas station and stopped to tell him. He laughed and said what do you expect when renting to people in this neighborhood.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed.
I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
September 23rd, 2018 at 1:48:30 PM
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Quote: lilredroostervery tough talk. last time I checked you weren't God.
I never said that I would end his life. I don't feel any sadness for him no longer being on this earth.
What I wonder is what other problems have both of these people caused in the past. Someone who is 61 doesn't just willingly shoot someone out of no where. I am guessing he has had other confrontations with others in a similar fashion that just happened to end a different way.
I would bet the dead guy has been in many bar fights and was just a general ass.
Maybe not, maybe they were both great people who both just had a bad day.
The son with the shotgun on the other hand.. he is just a total d bag. you can definitely tell he sucked in school, had no friends, has no job, lives at home, watches porn and plays video games all day, and is probably a virgin.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed.
I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
September 23rd, 2018 at 2:24:33 PM
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I was setting the over under at 10 in my mind on amount of times the deceased had likely beat his wife based on his behavior and the lack of his wife trying to stop him while watching the video.
September 23rd, 2018 at 2:26:34 PM
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Quote: mcallister3200I was setting the over under at 10 in my mind on amount of times the deceased had likely beat his wife while based on his behavior and the lack of his wife trying to stop it while watching the video.
OVER. ALL. DAY. Mortal lock.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
September 23rd, 2018 at 2:29:19 PM
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Here we go:
https://ktxs.com/news/abilene/step-brother-of-homicide-victim-wishes-he-told-him-i-love-you
"He had a few problems," AND he attended church...I love the OVER 10 on wife-beating incidents!
https://ktxs.com/news/abilene/step-brother-of-homicide-victim-wishes-he-told-him-i-love-you
Quote:“He had a few problems but, he was doing good, started going to church, having a family and everything,” said Whitley. “Getting to talk to his kids all the time and everything he was getting good.”
"He had a few problems," AND he attended church...I love the OVER 10 on wife-beating incidents!
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
September 23rd, 2018 at 2:49:48 PM
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the guy shot the dude AFTER a bat was thrown at the man with the hand gun. i have seen pictures of the bat hitting the man, and the person who analyzed the video said and showed that the wife who was instagating in the video purposely took the camera off the man with the handgun after the bat was thrown, but still accidentally caught the bat hitting the man on tape anyways.
September 23rd, 2018 at 2:55:06 PM
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I wonder if that doesn’t hurt the self defense argument. The deceased already threw the bat so was unarmed when he was shot.Quote: heatmapthe guy shot the dude AFTER a bat was thrown at the man with the hand gun. i have seen pictures of the bat hitting the man, and the person who analyzed the video said and showed that the wife who was instagating in the video purposely took the camera off the man with the handgun after the bat was thrown, but still accidentally caught the bat hitting the man on tape anyways.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
September 23rd, 2018 at 3:02:03 PM
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i didnt even see the dude had a bat to begin with when i watched the video so when people started to talk about it and someone found the frame with the dude getting hit by it i was confused as all hell
September 23rd, 2018 at 3:08:34 PM
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This was a (private) dispute between 3 losers (not counting the wife) - low-class confrontational people with anger problems, two of whom had guns.
Everyone in this video made some really bad decisions. The guy who died made some inexplicable decisions, probably out of uncontrollable anger.
One guy is dead and the other two are being (or will be) sodomized and beat up by prison inmates.
I look at this video and make mental notes about what I need to do to avoid being one of those three losers. Nothing else to learn from this.
Everyone in this video made some really bad decisions. The guy who died made some inexplicable decisions, probably out of uncontrollable anger.
One guy is dead and the other two are being (or will be) sodomized and beat up by prison inmates.
I look at this video and make mental notes about what I need to do to avoid being one of those three losers. Nothing else to learn from this.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
September 23rd, 2018 at 5:41:42 PM
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“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
— From Robert Heinlein’s Beyond This Horizon
— From Robert Heinlein’s Beyond This Horizon
September 23rd, 2018 at 6:10:31 PM
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IMO, damn shame they only used a lame bat & wussy little sidearm. Somebody should've taken up a collection to get them a sack of hand grenades so the whole mutant clan could just completely delete themselves from the planet altogether. Plus, looks like the neighborhood would probably be improved with the addition of a crater.
On the other hand, from the text that accompanies the video posted on the Youtube page I see that apparently this took place three weeks ago, which was National Beheading Day. If only someone from the trailer park could get them to line up and hold still for a bit. For this job, I get the impression a tub of hooch and a box of straws could probably do the trick.
On the other hand, from the text that accompanies the video posted on the Youtube page I see that apparently this took place three weeks ago, which was National Beheading Day. If only someone from the trailer park could get them to line up and hold still for a bit. For this job, I get the impression a tub of hooch and a box of straws could probably do the trick.
Suck dope, watch TV, make up stuff, be somebody on the internet.
September 23rd, 2018 at 6:17:18 PM
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I'll bet in three days if the men who are still alive will have angonizing regretful remorse thinking,"we were all idiots who should have thought with our minds and not our macho testosterone."
In both The Hunger Games and in gambling, may the odds be ever in your favor. :D
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
"Olive oil is processed but it only has one
ingredient, olive oil."-Even Bob, March 27/28th. :D The 2 year war is over! Woo-hoo! :D
I sometimes speak in metaphors. ;) Remember this. ;)
Crack the code. :D 8.9.13.25.14.1.13.5.9.19.14.1.20.8.1.14! :D
"For about the 4096th time, let me offer a radical idea to those of you who don't like Nathan -- block her and don't visit Nathan's Corner. What is so complicated about it?" Wizard, August 21st. :D
September 23rd, 2018 at 6:33:17 PM
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Ehhh.
[ _ } "Oh to be more thoughtful, less testiclefulla."
[ X ] "How do I get ahold of some hooch in here?"
[ _ } "Oh to be more thoughtful, less testiclefulla."
[ X ] "How do I get ahold of some hooch in here?"
Suck dope, watch TV, make up stuff, be somebody on the internet.
September 23rd, 2018 at 6:53:36 PM
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Quote: DrawingDeadIMO, damn shame they only used a lame bat & wussy little sidearm. Somebody should've taken up a collection to get them a sack of hand grenades so the whole mutant clan could just completely delete themselves from the planet altogether. Plus, looks like the neighborhood would probably be improved with the addition of a crater.
Well done!
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
September 23rd, 2018 at 8:48:28 PM
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I'm down for IQ and common sense tests to have guns. These folks are rednecks that should have been aborted.
I am a robot.
September 23rd, 2018 at 8:52:15 PM
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Much more pleasant alley confrontations. If the rhubarb lady had a gun, this video would never have happened. She would have been jailed on murder charges for shooting the Iranian pigs that stole her lawn mower.
I am a robot.
September 23rd, 2018 at 8:54:33 PM
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Good tip.Quote: petroglyphIt's easy to pass a psyche test if you just don't tell them about the voices in your head.
I am a robot.
September 23rd, 2018 at 11:50:12 PM
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Quote: onenickelmiracleThese folks are rednecks that should have been aborted.
What makes you say that?
September 23rd, 2018 at 11:53:51 PM
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See what happens.Quote: RSWhat makes you say that?
I am a robot.
