Sheldon Adelson plans to build an NFL stadium in Las Vegas
The move depends on the completion of a new $1.9 billion, 65,000-seat stadium there; it would be the most expensive NFL stadium ever built. (MetLife Stadium in New Jersey cost $1.6 billion and Levi’s Stadium in Santa Clara cost $1.3 billion.) And the man behind that costly project is Las Vegas Sands (LVS) CEO Sheldon Adelson.
Read more here:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-inside-sheldon-adelsons-plan-to-build-an-nfl-stadium-in-las-vegas-151026939.html
Harris County has said in the past that they still owe $30 million on the Astrodome. Some, or all, of that was used to make improvements demanded by an NFL owner who later moved his team. The Astrodome rots in place and the franchise that was moved has increased in value... This was not a good public/private deal.
Quote: IbeatyouracesThese stadiums, arenas, etc., should be 100% paid for and funded by the owner of the team. No exceptions.
That is easy to say but the team owners will argue that the city can come out ahead via the additional tax revenue if they have a team as opposed to no team even if the state chips in for a stadium. It is a question of fairness. I lived in Baltimore when they got the Ravens and the city pretty much gave Art Modell, the Ravens owners, the stadium for free. That I totally opposed. However, I wouldn't have begrudged the city chipping in in return for having some ownership rights. Maybe being able to lease the stadium on the many non-NFL days. I am flexible on the details, not that anyone is asking my opinion, but there is probably a sensible middle ground to be found.
Quote: IbeatyouracesI look at it this way as well, if at least one single penny of my tax dollars goes toward these places, then I should be able to enter them free at any time!
Drive up to Rachael, hit the back gate and try that argument. Or save an hour and just try it at Nell is.
Quote: WizardThat is easy to say but the team owners will argue that the city can come out ahead via the additional tax revenue if they have a team as opposed to no team even if the state chips in for a stadium. It is a question of fairness. I lived in Baltimore when they got the Ravens and the city pretty much gave Art Modell, the Ravens owners, the stadium for free. That I totally opposed. However, I wouldn't have begrudged the city chipping in in return for having some ownership rights. Maybe being able to lease the stadium on the many non-NFL days. I am flexible on the details, not that anyone is asking my opinion, but there is probably a sensible middle ground to be found.
Agreed. There are jobs created, and tax revenue to be collected. In addition, domes make a great shelter when disasters strike....
On the other hand, the Raiders are not a good match for Las Vegas. They should move to Carson, California.
Quote: billryanDrive up to Rachael, hit the back gate and try that argument. Or save an hour and just try it at Nell is.
But when they DO let you in, they DO NOT charge you anything. That's my point.
BTW, national security is necessary, entertainment venues are not.
Quote: WizardThat is easy to say but the team owners will argue that the city can come out ahead via the additional tax revenue if they have a team as opposed to no team even if the state chips in for a stadium. It is a question of fairness. I lived in Baltimore when they got the Ravens and the city pretty much gave Art Modell, the Ravens owners, the stadium for free. That I totally opposed. However, I wouldn't have begrudged the city chipping in in return for having some ownership rights. Maybe being able to lease the stadium on the many non-NFL days. I am flexible on the details, not that anyone is asking my opinion, but there is probably a sensible middle ground to be found.
I think it's time for the federal government to step up and regulate interstate commerce. Every time it ends up being an owner holding a public entity hostage with threats to move their team to LA. Well since every major team crosses state lines, the US could regulate this by invoking the commerce clause. These stadiums never end up being a net benefit.
http://news.stanford.edu/2015/07/30/stadium-economics-noll-073015/
"Businesses near the stadium like restaurants and hotels might win from the extra local spending, but why should taxpayers pay so that a few favored businesses can see greater profits?"
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2015/01/31/publicly-financed-sports-stadiums-are-a-game-that-taxpayers-lose/#660ba4d16183
"Spending that goes on inside a stadium tends to flow into the pockets of a relatively few, high-income individuals who live a large portion of the year outside the city,'' Coates said. "Much of that money flows out.''
http://www.tampabay.com/news/localgovernment/how-much-do-the-tampa-bay-rays-boost-the-local-economy/2112236
Quote: RonCI don't want to pay higher taxes to stay in Las Vegas so that some team owner can become wealthier. If they cannot make building the stadium (any stadium) work for the owner without public subsidizing it, it should not be built. At the very least, the government should be a partner participating in the profit if they make an investment in the stadium.
RonC and I actually agree on something!
I don't care about the NFL. I visit Vegas six times a year. I don't want to have to pay some "stadium fee" in addition to any dumb resort fees I already have to pay.
What will a tourists pay per night for this? Under a quarter? With no cost to local residents?
My one condition is Mark Davis loses his hairstyle.
T-Mobile arena construction cost was $375m, less than a quarter of what Adelson has estimated, a comparison can't be made regarding private vs public funding.
Quote: ams288RonC and I actually agree on something!
I don't care about the NFL. I visit Vegas six times a year. I don't want to have to pay some "stadium fee" in addition to any dumb resort fees I already have to pay.
Let me rethink my position!!
Nope...I still feel the same!
Quote: ams288<snip> don't want to have to pay some "stadium fee" in addition to any dumb resort fees I already have to pay.<snip>
It is worse than that...you'll actually end up paying the "stadium fee" and "convention center fee" on the "resort fee"....
Quote: ahiromuPublic funding is a classic case of realpolitik. Nobody wants to publicly fund a stadium, but that's how the game is played in most markets. Yes, you can try and play chicken with the owners, but if another city is throwing millions at a new arena the economics change. Playing hardball would be a losing proposition for the city IMO.
T-Mobile arena construction cost was $375m, less than a quarter of what Adelson has estimated, a comparison can't be made regarding private vs public funding.
Many cities complain they will "lose their identity" or some such nonsense if a stadium is not built and the end up with no team. Las Vegas is far removed from that possibility--the city has an identity and having a football team will have little or no impact on that identity.
"Las Vegas Raiders" just doesn't sound right.
Any ideas for another team name, something evocative of Sin City?
Quote: MrVAssume the Raiders relocate to Las Vegas.
"Las Vegas Raiders" just doesn't sound right.
Any ideas for another team name, something evocative of Sin City?
"UX Vultures"
Quote: billryan...My one condition is Mark Davis loses his hairstyle.
That's a deal breaker.
Until his "Flowbee" jams.
Quote: billryanThe hotel tax currently brings in over $600 million a year.With a slight increase, a plan that calls for it giving $30 million a year to fund such a stadium doesn't seem outrageous.
What will a tourists pay per night for this? Under a quarter? With no cost to local residents?
My one condition is Mark Davis loses his hairstyle.
The problem is that is not how the proposed financing works, that is what they want you to believe. My understanding is that the money funded by Adelson, Davis, and investors will be paid back to them via tax credits. So that other $1.2 billion we end up paying for because we will not be collecting the normal taxes from them. People that follow this closely also realize the reason Adelson wants it is because the funding would be going to the Las Vegas Convention Center, if not for a stadium, and the LVCC competes directly with Adelson's convention center at the Venetian/Palazzo.
Quote: DRichThe problem is that is not how the proposed financing works, that is what they want you to believe. My understanding is that the money funded by Adelson, Davis, and investors will be paid back to them via tax credits. So that other $1.2 billion we end up paying for because we will not be collecting the normal taxes from them. People that follow this closely also realize the reason Adelson wants it is because the funding would be going to the Las Vegas Convention Center, if not for a stadium, and the LVCC competes directly with Adelson's convention center at the Venetian/Palazzo.
I am not following it closely, but isn't the Convention Center upgrade/expansion already underway? I assume the funding for that has already been arranged, so the stadium would be a new debt to pay.
What about Sam Boyd Stadium? Wouldn't it be cheaper to just upgrade it?
Quote: AyecarumbaI am not following it closely, but isn't the Convention Center upgrade/expansion already underway? I assume the funding for that has already been arranged, so the stadium would be a new debt to pay.
What about Sam Boyd Stadium? Wouldn't it be cheaper to just upgrade it?
No, the funding for expanding the convention center has not been determined yet. All they did was bought the property to expand it when they can.
Quote: DRichNo, the funding for expanding the convention center has not been determined yet. All they did was bought the property to expand it when they can.
So if the Stadium gets approved, the Convention Center expansion halts until the stadium is paid for? I don't see that happening, since the tear down of the Riviera is now complete.
The Las Vegas Suckers? The Chumps? Fools? Lunkheads? Pigeons? The Saps? Aha, I've got it: The Boobs. Not much danger of the target fan base who are zoning out on this advertising platform for monster trucks & beer ever catching on to that double entendre, anymore than such salt of the Earth folk would make enough of a ballpark guess at the term entendre to look it up.
I tried for something more specifically related to what would actually be happening in the domed TV production stage, eh, make that 'playing field' (for all of eight times a year @ about $237,500,000.00 per game in up-front money from the Chumps, er, from public investment). But Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy probably doesn't easily fit on a helmet, and the acronym CTE doesn't have much of a ring to it, judging by the oblivious response to the overwhelming flood of medical evidence in recent years. Even dumbing it down enough for an NFL fan base to Massive & Progressive Neuro-Disease or simply Constant Big-Ass Brain & Nerve System Damage That Won't Stop 'Till Ya Die doesn't seem likely to catch on.
So I predict they'll name the theme of the new TV studio, ah, the new 'home team' after some sleek or powerful carnivorous animal that NFL fans fantasize that they could resemble if they ever paused from getting drunk in front of their television enough to do something someday.
But wait, how is this different than publicly subsidizing some well connected political fixer's shopping mall or office tower spec development, or golf course, even casinos, or someone's politically preferred kind of industry, or... oh yeah, guess they already do that too. Nevermind. Rah-rah, push-em-back, push-em-back, harder, harder, goooo Boobs! Gimmie a B! Gimmie an O! Gimmie....
Like most such quasi-public "economic development" schemes around the country, the tearing down part has amounted to an awful lot more than that, over a long time, at great expense. For years now & for long before the recent Riv implosion they've been assembling the formerly privately owned land (sometimes forcibly) behind it, and have demolished tens of thousands of multifamily rental housing units and dozens of businesses in the process. Those former neighborhoods are now mostly cracked concrete pads and dusty empty lots awaiting... whatever. And those who were living and working there are now... not.Quote: AyecarumbaSo if the Stadium gets approved, the Convention Center expansion halts until the stadium is paid for? I don't see that happening, since the tear down of the Riviera is now complete.
So yeah, there's a pretty darn big sunk cost that's already incurred towards that one.
Quote: AyecarumbaSo if the Stadium gets approved, the Convention Center expansion halts until the stadium is paid for? I don't see that happening, since the tear down of the Riviera is now complete.
I don't know about halting it but I would assume it will really slow down the expansion and they will have to find other places to get more money which will end up costing us locals more.
Quote: Ayecarumba"UX Vultures"
Thanks for this! :) I needed a good laugh. 'Las Vegas Vultures' actually has a ring to it. And a deeper meaning. But Las Vegas Raiders sounds pretty alright to me.
Quote: DRichI don't know about halting it but I would assume it will really slow down the expansion and they will have to find other places to get more money which will end up costing us locals more.
Sorry for the derail, but...
Forget the Stadium for now... How did you come to this conclusion?:
Quote: DRich's BylineMy prognostication: Eleven NFL games in 2016 will result in a score for both teams being a two digit palindromic prime number. (ie. 97-79, 71-17, etc)
There are 21 two digit primes:
11 13 17 19 23 29 31 37 41 43 47 53 59 61 67 71 73 79 83 89 97
Only 9 could be "palindromic":
11 13 17 31 37 71 73 79 97
Scores in the 70's and above are almost unheard of in the NFL:
11 13 31
So 11 games will end 31-13? Last season, there were plenty of 13's and even more 31's, but there weren't any games last season with both.
Quote: AyecarumbaOn the other hand, the Raiders are not a good match for Las Vegas. They should move to Carson, California.
The Raiders are a nomadic team. How many times have they moved when their lease ran out? Besides, LA has the Rams now, who I predict they won't be able to hold onto.
Carson? The only thing Carson is known for is bumper to bumper traffic on the 405. I've lived in the LA area much of my life and never once had reason to actually stop in Carson.
Quote: WizardThe Raiders are a nomadic team. How many times have they moved when their lease ran out? Besides, LA has the Rams now, who I predict they won't be able to hold onto.
Carson? The only thing Carson is known for is bumper to bumper traffic on the 405. I've lived in the LA area much of my life and never once had reason to actually stop in Carson.
Hehe... Well they do have oil refineries that blow up from time to time...
That might get you to stop... and shelter in place.
I did. Once. For a blind date. Most prominent feature of the community I remember seeing looked like an oil refinery, near a rail yard. Seems like a fine place for an NFL stadium to me; at least they don't have steel security bars on all the ground floor windows a la Inglewood, do they? And a fine lot of regional television eyeballs for marketing team themed gew-gaws & baubles & chotchkies to.Quote: Wizard...<SNIP>...
Carson? The only thing Carson is known for is bumper to bumper traffic on the 405. I've lived in the LA area much of my life and never once had reason to actually stop in Carson.
She said she lived in Redondo Beach 'till she had to fess up with the actual address. I guess maybe she did that in the same way folks in Compton sometimes prefer to stretch things a bit and say "Long Beach." Needlessly; I wasn't after her money. Or backyard patio view.
Quote: MrVAssume the Raiders relocate to Las Vegas.
"Las Vegas Raiders" just doesn't sound right.
Any ideas for another team name, something evocative of Sin City?
How about the Porn Slappers?
Are they even still around in great numbers? Only saw a hand full of them when I was in town a few weeks ago.
Quote: MrVAssume the Raiders relocate to Las Vegas.
"Las Vegas Raiders" just doesn't sound right.
Any ideas for another team name, something evocative of Sin City?
Las Vegas Hookers and Blow (the cheerleaders' name)
Las Vegas Neons
Las Vegas Benjamins (after Siegel, Binion, and Franklin)
Las Vegas Showtime
Las Vegas Pornslappers
Las Vegas Mob (That could be fun)
Las Vegas Silver
Las Vegas Wild Stallions
Las Vegas Lucky 7s
Las Vegas Blackjacks
Edit: Aye, I'm loving the Vegas Vultures.
For personal reasons, I'd suggest Cougars over any of mine above. My folks came out in 1972 and partied at Binions with, among others, the couple who owned the cougar which used to decorate all the Mercury Cougar ads. Maybe some of you remember the "at the sign of the cat" campaign with the cougar lying on top of the banjo sign? Anyway, it's a favorite picture in the family album, 8 of them at a banquette table with Benny Binion behind it, all smiling up at the house photographer. Besides, cougars were native to the Nevada mountains at one time. Might still be.
Quote: WizardThat is easy to say but the team owners will argue that the city can come out ahead via the additional tax revenue if they have a team as opposed to no team even if the state chips in for a stadium.
The city also comes out ahead when IKEA builds a store. But if the government paid for most of their expenses, then Costco would end up screwed and we would end up far worse on both ends.
Why haven't we been spending hundreds of millions in tax money to pay to get UFC and NFR here. If we did that wouldn't we be coming out ahead with all the additional tax revenue
The only way Adelson gets $750 million in government money is if there is corruption and the end result will be the city gets fleeced. Let the public vote on it instead of the legislatures and see what happens. There is a reason Adelson wouldn't want that.
Imagine if there was a special session to vote on stadium funding after many have already lost re-election bids, then see those some of the people who vote in favor of it end up with cushy jobs on the new football team. I could see that happening and it wouldn't even be the most underhanded thing about this
Quote: beachbumbabsLas Vegas Hookers and Blow (the cheerleaders' name)
Las Vegas Neons
Las Vegas Benjamins (after Siegel, Binion, and Franklin)
Las Vegas Showtime
Las Vegas Pornslappers
Las Vegas Mob (That could be fun)
Las Vegas Silver
Las Vegas Wild Stallions
Las Vegas Lucky 7s
Las Vegas Blackjacks
Edit: Aye, I'm loving the Vegas Vultures.
For personal reasons, I'd suggest Cougars over any of mine above. My folks came out in 1972 and partied at Binions with, among others, the couple who owned the cougar which used to decorate all the Mercury Cougar ads. Maybe some of you remember the "at the sign of the cat" campaign with the cougar lying on top of the banjo sign? Anyway, it's a favorite picture in the family album, 8 of them at a banquette table with Benny Binion behind it, all smiling up at the house photographer. Besides, cougars were native to the Nevada mountains at one time. Might still be.
What a great story! Thanks for sharing. I remember the campaign.
Shortly after my parents befriended them (she was the daughter of his good friend), they divorced. Then Chauncey died, not sure of what, but he had two cat doubles by then, and the ad campaign continued. About a year after that, her ex was killed by a rancher who accused him/them of allowing their animals to kill his livestock.
She continued to have the animals, but changed her focus from Hollywood stunt animals to a wildlife preserve, though still supplying the cougars to Ford. This picture of her and a second generation cougar was from about 1980, with a guy who was either her professional or personal partner, not sure which. They did a lot of car shows for many years. She passed in 2013 at about 70. Not sure what happened to the preserve or animals.
*purrrrrrr*
Quote: Ayecarumba"UX Vultures"
lol excellent! post of the day
Quote: beachbumbabsMaybe some of you remember the "at the sign of the cat" campaign with the cougar lying on top of the banjo sign?
I remember Cal Worthington and his dog Spot.
Quote: AussieHow about the Porn Slappers?
Are they even still around in great numbers? Only saw a hand full of them when I was in town a few weeks ago.
The most annoying thing in Vegas is porn slappers. I think porn slappers should be a great concern for the citizen of Vegas and its elected officials, and it appears to me that the city didn’t do anything to get rid of these porn slappers. Does the city really care?
I think one effective way to address porn slappers problem is a city ordinance imposing HUGE fine for the porn slappers.
Quote: MrVHmmm, I see TWO cougars in that pic.
*purrrrrrr*
Look again, there are more than 3 cougars in that picture.
Quote: MrVAssume the Raiders relocate to Las Vegas.
"Las Vegas Raiders" just doesn't sound right.
Any ideas for another team name, something evocative of Sin City?
Las Vegas Undecided Trumper
Las Vegas Orange Orangutan
Las Vegas Ace
Quote: Ayecarumba
So 11 games will end 31-13? Last season, there were plenty of 13's and even more 31's, but there weren't any games last season with both.
Don't forget ties of 11-11.
It's an interesting problem considering the possible point combinations.
1 pt (only after a touchdown)
2 pts (safety or a conversion after a touchdown)
3 pts (field goal)
6 pts (touchdown)
