Nipples and society

Brought to you by the Free The Nipple Society?
Art museums, parties and even the sidewalks ... NYC women often go topless.

Teenage girls enjoy the trend too but at least most of them are being raised to ask the guy first if it would be a problem for him.

Quote: FleaStiff

Brought to you by the Free The Nipple Society?
Art museums, parties and even the sidewalks ... NYC women often go topless.

Teenage girls enjoy the trend too but at least most of them are being raised to ask the guy first if it would be a problem for him.

Try to go on Facebook and post a topless man and topless woman
Try to show a topless woman on prime time network television
The topless woman photo will be removed but the topless man photo will remain.
Also, most states do not allow public nudity for women

My favorite Fort Liquordale crew house has that problem whenever they post pool party photos. About half the girls are always topless the rest are often topless because its a party. Many of the tenants are nudists who proudly wear nothing but sunscreen. Yet Facebook is a private company even though most people think of it as a sort of utility or common carrier.

Australian beach photos get the same treatment even though topless beaches are common there.

Finally a solution for the lady in the catcalling video.

heh.

Facebook is not a private company - they are a public company on the stock exchange

A lot of it is cultural. There are many countries or regions at least where women routinely walk around topless in scenarios where men would likewise be shirtless and nobody even gives it a second thought (except tourists perhaps). But in Western Cultures female breasts are so sexualized that people feel uncomfortable with them exposed publically.

Likewise there are some cultures where any part of the female skin is sexualized. Right now I am living in a region where women walk around like ninjas when in public and the only thing you can see is their eyes.

Different policies work for different cultures. A lot of these types of cultural "rules" (even if they are not always legally enforced but just enforced through stigma) is that they stem from trying to desexualize women so as not to provoke inappropriate thoughts in men. They may feel oppressive but they are designed to protect women from being objectified by men.

Quote: Gandler

Likewise there are some cultures where any part of the female skin is sexualized. Right now I am living in a region where women walk around like ninjas when in public and the only thing you can see is their eyes.

Different policies work for different cultures. A lot of these types of cultural "rules" (even if they are not always legally enforced but just enforced through stigma) is that they stem from trying to desexualize women so as not to provoke inappropriate thoughts in men. They may feel oppressive but they are designed to protect women from being objectified by men.

Until the veil is removed:

Suadi man divorces wife at wedding ceremony once she reveals her face

Quote: Gandler

A lot of it is cultural. There are many countries or regions at least where women routinely walk around topless in scenarios where men would likewise be shirtless and nobody even gives it a second thought (except tourists perhaps). But in Western Cultures female breasts are so sexualized that people feel uncomfortable with them exposed publically.

Likewise there are some cultures where any part of the female skin is sexualized. Right now I am living in a region where women walk around like ninjas when in public and the only thing you can see is their eyes.

Different policies work for different cultures. A lot of these types of cultural "rules" (even if they are not always legally enforced but just enforced through stigma) is that they stem from trying to desexualize women so as not to provoke inappropriate thoughts in men. They may feel oppressive but they are designed to protect women from being objectified by men.

The cultural sentiment about that in the Middle East makes a great deal of sense to me; they trade off the discomfort of complete veiling in a hot climate for an incredible amount of privacy and dignity. I used to regard it as oppressive, but it simply turns a huge issue in our culture into a non-issue. She can go out without makeup, heels, hose, whatever, not worry about being subjected to judgment or partiality based on perception of her beauty, age, weight, hair, skin color, any number of other things that Western cultures use for bias decision-making. No paparazzi problems over there; all women look alike in a burka. It's also a hell of a lot cheaper to live where clothes don't make the woman; the fashion industry is totally dependent on forcing change season by season in order to push sales. It's rare for an Western adult woman to wear something out before she just stops wearing it.

I realize I'm taking a superficial chop at a complex issue, but it's not as one-sided as most Western commentary makes it.

Quote: beachbumbabs

The cultural sentiment about that in the Middle East makes a great deal of sense to me; they trade off the discomfort of complete veiling in a hot climate for an incredible amount of privacy and dignity. I used to regard it as oppressive, but it simply turns a huge issue in our culture into a non-issue. She can go out without makeup, heels, hose, whatever, not worry about being subjected to judgment or partiality based on perception of her beauty, age, weight, hair, skin color, any number of other things that Western cultures use for bias decision-making. No paparazzi problems over there; all women look alike in a burka. It's also a hell of a lot cheaper to live where clothes don't make the woman; the fashion industry is totally dependent on forcing change season by season in order to push sales. It's rare for an Western adult woman to wear something out before she just stops wearing it.

I realize I'm taking a superficial chop at a complex issue, but it's not as one-sided as most Western commentary makes it.

It is not oppressive - it is repressive. It is a rule imposed by men upon the women because the men cannot control themselves. As such, the women have to conform their behavior to the men's inability to control theirs.

Quote: aceofspades

It is not oppressive - it is repressive. It is a rule imposed by men upon the women because the men cannot control themselves. As such, the women have to conform their behavior to the men's inability to control theirs.

Agreed. I was 100% on board with this, then met and corresponded with a man of that culture. He and a couple women friends of his helped me see that it was not as simple as that. But I think what you're saying is still the largest part of it from my POV.

Quote: aceofspades

Is this guy a member here? Is that juicyjerry? :-)

Quote: beachbumbabs

The cultural sentiment about that in the Middle East makes a great deal of sense to me; they trade off the discomfort of complete veiling in a hot climate for an incredible amount of privacy and dignity. I used to regard it as oppressive, but it simply turns a huge issue in our culture into a non-issue. She can go out without makeup, heels, hose, whatever, not worry about being subjected to judgment or partiality based on perception of her beauty, age, weight, hair, skin color, any number of other things that Western cultures use for bias decision-making. No paparazzi problems over there; all women look alike in a burka. It's also a hell of a lot cheaper to live where clothes don't make the woman; the fashion industry is totally dependent on forcing change season by season in order to push sales. It's rare for an Western adult woman to wear something out before she just stops wearing it.

I realize I'm taking a superficial chop at a complex issue, but it's not as one-sided as most Western commentary makes it.

Its actually probably not as uncomfortable in the heat as you think (after all its basically just a cloak and mask). Many people completely cover while out and wear long clothes, men as well to prevent sun exposure.

The main problem I have always had is, in certain European countries, and in America of course, where religious discrimination is prohibited by law. It sounds like a great law. But it protects people who wear religious headwear in public. So my bank forces me to take off my tiny sunglasses and gets sued for forcing a Muslim women to remove her face cover... Laws like that are not fair for businesses. And, also its absurd when people can force the DMV to take their Drivers License photograph, what's the point of having a photo ID if people are allowed to be in a mask? And you can go to trials covered if you claim to be religious.

Though its not popular to say, this is one issue that has always made me against religious discrimination laws, since religion is a choice (nobody is genetically religious), and now in America people can claim to be religious to dress a certain way or show up to work a certain way, or get out of the military, etc... I have always thought that religious discrimination should not be prohibited.

Quote: Gandler

Its actually probably not as uncomfortable in the heat as you think (after all its basically just a cloak and mask). Many people completely cover while out and wear long clothes, men as well to prevent sun exposure.

The main problem I have always had is, in certain European countries, and in America of course, where religious discrimination is prohibited by law. It sounds like a great law. But it protects people who wear religious headwear in public. So my bank forces me to take off my tiny sunglasses and gets sued for forcing a Muslim women to remove her face cover... Laws like that are not fair for businesses. And, also its absurd when people can force the DMV to take their Drivers License photograph, what's the point of having a photo ID if people are allowed to be in a mask? And you can go to trials covered if you claim to be religious.

Though its not popular to say, this is one issue that has always made me against religious discrimination laws, since religion is a choice (nobody is genetically religious), and now in America people can claim to be religious to dress a certain way or show up to work a certain way, or get out of the military, etc... I have always thought that religious discrimination should not be prohibited.

I wonder if, as an atheist, I can get out of certain things for "non-religious" reasons?

I agree with your post.

Quote: beachbumbabs

The cultural sentiment about that in the Middle East makes a great deal of sense to me; they trade off the discomfort of complete veiling in a hot climate for an incredible amount of privacy and dignity.

I don't know if there is dignity when such things are imposed.

Many schools have females wear art smocks so as to decrease dressiness and competition and make scholarship students feel less poor, but art smocks are a far cry from a mandatory burka. School uniforms are different that being beaten by the police even if you are leaving a burning building while not suitably dressed.

Women who really want to wander around waif-like with no make up or jewelry are perfectly free to even if the currentfashion is "dressy". Most men do not do anything more than a smile and perhaps a muted wolf whistle. Construction workers tend not to be subtle, often revving a chain saw in time with a young woman's heels or something. One secretary used FedEx each day rather than
run the gauntlet of aggressive construction worker's catcalls.

Quote: aceofspades

Until the veil is removed:

Suadi man divorces wife at wedding ceremony once she reveals her face

He didn't get to stone her or cut off her head?


It's like buying a scratch off ticket. Keep trying eventually you'll get a winner.

Works for me keeping female nipples taboo so they can be appreciated when you see them. Having them be no big deal and not exciting, wouldn't be fun.

Quote: Gandler

Its actually probably not as uncomfortable in the heat as you think (after all its basically just a cloak and mask). Many people completely cover while out and wear long clothes, men as well to prevent sun exposure.

The main problem I have always had is, in certain European countries, and in America of course, where religious discrimination is prohibited by law. It sounds like a great law. But it protects people who wear religious headwear in public. So my bank forces me to take off my tiny sunglasses and gets sued for forcing a Muslim women to remove her face cover... Laws like that are not fair for businesses. And, also its absurd when people can force the DMV to take their Drivers License photograph, what's the point of having a photo ID if people are allowed to be in a mask? And you can go to trials covered if you claim to be religious.

Though its not popular to say, this is one issue that has always made me against religious discrimination laws, since religion is a choice (nobody is genetically religious), and now in America people can claim to be religious to dress a certain way or show up to work a certain way, or get out of the military, etc... I have always thought that religious discrimination should not be prohibited.

Religions might be a choice here, but without protecting religious freedom, you might not have a choice like in old Europe or many islamic countries. It's not really a choice when chosen instead of death or poverty, etc.

Quote: beachbumbabs

T I used to regard it as oppressive, but it simply turns a huge issue in our culture into a non-issue. She can go out without makeup, heels, hose, whatever, not worry about being subjected to judgment or partiality based on perception of her beauty, age, weight, hair, skin color, any number of other things that Western cultures use for bias decision-making. .

And women can't do that here? Sure they
can, nobody is stopping them from wearing a
burka in public. Men have to walk around every
day with their balding heads and big guts and double
chins and wrinkled faces. You don't think we're
judged by our appearances too? Sure we are, only
we don't take is as personally as women. We aren't
that shallow that we think our appearance runs
our lives. Why are women?

Quote: onenickelmiracle

Religions might be a choice here, but without protecting religious freedom, you might not have a choice like in old Europe or many islamic countries. It's not really a choice when chosen instead of death or poverty, etc.

When in America are people ever forced to choose joining a religion over death?

I'm all for freedom of thought and Religion. But religious and thought discrimination should be legal. Since after all religions are no more than life philosphies.

Quote: aceofspades

I wonder if, as an atheist, I can get out of certain things for "non-religious" reasons?

I agree with your post.

No, there are no benifits of being an Atheist. Other than being more distrusted by every one than any other group (on polls Christians and Muslims distrust athesits more than any group, far more, even more than homosexuals and Jews, and that is saying a lot, particularly among Muslims).

Not accepting ancient books as unchallenged truth is viewed as dangerous to religious people.

I like female nipples. I like them a lot.

But I disagree with the benefits of being an atheist. Making up your own mind and owning yourself is priceless.

Having the determination to break free of the fear instilled on so many children shows strong character. That fear is one hell of a hurdle too. It took years for me to use reason to get past the fear drilled into my young and impressionable mind. Many family members won't speak to me. But I am OK with that.

We are also waging a war on Christmas. Just listen to Fox and Friends.....A manufactured war popularized by them. I'm an atheist but I still celebrate Christmas. (How can that be?) And I think Jesus is a character on South Park, isn't he?

And I still like female nipples. It is legal to go topless here in Austin. Occasionally women will exercise their right to do this. It always makes the news.

Upthread somewhere there was mention of men who are condemned to wander around with excess visceral fat, double chins and similar signs of aging.

I'm not sure of the strength of the trend but there is certainly a trend toward plastic surgery for males, hair coloring, upscale barber shops so that a man can retain his trophy wife longer.

I think of the sixties. We all enjoyed the mini skirt revolution and all hated the midi skirt which followed it. However, there was no way to keep overweight and very elderly women from wearing mini skirts. It all comes down to a matter of personal choice and freedom. Breasts are not genitalia and the law recognizes this.

Most European magazines feature nude females or topless females in advertisements and features. One UK newspaper features its Page Three which is devoted to bikini shots of actresses, sports figures girlfriends, etc. I don't ever expect it to feature handsome young men who are photographed shirtless.

Looking back to the original figure posted in this thread I think the woman is beautiful and that she appears happy. Imposing a male's chest on her photo may be seen as humorous but if she were a movie star she could probably sue for tarnishing her image.

One need only visit the Greek Islands. Its hot, the tourists are all topless, if not wealthy they are certainly well off, even if the yacht is chartered, the women are at the very least topless. Often there is total nudity. And as one actress put it, no woman dons a blouse just to have a fight with her husband. Its summer, you are in the Greek Islands, ... you are enjoying certain freedoms... you fight topless and with a drink in your hand.