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FrankScoblete
FrankScoblete
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January 31st, 2014 at 6:30:14 AM permalink
The Truth: Pro-Choice versus Pro-Life

I am sick of euphemisms. When you go to the doctor or dentist and he says, “You will feel a little uncomfortable” and then you hit the ceiling because of the pain, you have just experienced a euphemism. Why doesn’t he just say, “This is gonna hurt like hell”?

Okay, let me lay this out for you in clear terms.

***Pro-Choice? What the hell is that? What people who are Pro-Choice mean is that a woman has the right to kill her fetus. Why don’t they just say that? “Women have a right to kill their fetuses.” You can make a law that a woman can kill fetuses in the following circumstances (which is what has been done) but the woman calls the shots (so to speak). Why the silly euphemism of “Pro-Choice”? Call it “Pro-Fetal-Kill.”

Yes, of course, Pro-Choice sounds better than “Pro-Fetal-Kill” but it means the same thing. Certainly Pro-Choice sounds nice for polite or political or dinner-time discussion. It’s not as bloody and gooey sounding as you twirl your spaghetti.

Seriously, it doesn’t upset me to hear a woman say, “I am going to kill the fetus inside me.” Hey, she can do that if she wants according to the law. I just like the honesty as opposed to the euphemism. I also love when Pro-Choicers think that the term encompasses other things as well as fetus killing. That’s just camouflage, the other stuff. Fetal killing is at the heart of the matter.

BUT…

*** Pro-Life? What’s with this “Pro-Life” stuff? The churches and temples that push pro-life have very violent histories of killing (witches, adulteresses and the like). Some of these religions and sects within religions still crush women. What the Pro-Lifers are really against is killing fetuses. So why don’t they call themselves “Anti-Fetal-Kill”?

Because Anti-Fetal-Kill sounds a little too negative; while Pro-Life sounds so very nice, clean and encompassing. Sadly many of the very people who are pro-life send their kids off to war where a hell of a lot of anti-life takes place. Adult humans get killed; kid humans get killed and fetal humans get killed. Not very clean or sanitary is it? So really these people aren’t Pro-Life in the truest sense at all. They just don’t want dead fetuses.

Sometimes Pro-Lifers will throw in the idea of “End of Life Care.” No, don’t do that; it’s the same as the Pro-Choice folks loading up all other ideas so killing fetuses can be hidden in a heap of other events. Make “End of Life Care” a separate idea. I want the “Anti-Fetal-Kill” and the “Pro-Fetal-Kill” to be pure concepts, like pain.

Let’s just call a spade a spade and not a heart or diamond. Drop the euphemisms and say what we are really talking about. Language has power and if uncomfortable means pain then tell me, “Scobe you are about to feel pain.” Please, no more bull-do-do to coin a euphemism.

Frank Scoblete author of “Confessions of a Wayward Catholic”
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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January 31st, 2014 at 6:44:46 AM permalink
Quote: FrankScoblete


Let’s just call a spade a spade and not a heart or diamond. Drop the euphemisms and say what we are really talking about. Language has power and if uncomfortable means pain then tell me, “Scobe you are about to feel pain.” Please, no more bull-do-do to coin a euphemism.



I started calling politicians like Obama and Warren "pro-abortion" a few years back. This is what they are. When you brag that abortion should be available "on-demand" and often at taxpayer expense you are not "pro-choice" you are pro-abortion. When you have rallies yearly to celebrate Roe 40 years later, sorry but you are pro-abortion.

Abortion is really not a major issue for me, excepting two things. First is what I said above. Second is concern for society because a society that celebrates abortion is a society in decline. The USA shows decline in so many areas since about 1965 it is alarming.
Tolerance is the virtue of believing in nothing
gpac1377
gpac1377
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January 31st, 2014 at 7:09:16 AM permalink
Here's the most recent Libertarian Party position (quoted from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_perspectives_on_abortion ):

"Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration."

That would be my preference. If you want to label me "pro-abortion," ok, whatever.
"Scientists tell us that the fastest animal on earth, with a top speed of 120 feet per second, is a cow that has been dropped out of a helicopter."
Nareed
Nareed
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January 31st, 2014 at 7:14:50 AM permalink
Quote: FrankScoblete

***Pro-Choice? What the hell is that? What people who are Pro-Choice mean is that a woman has the right to kill her fetus. Why don’t they just say that?



Because that's not the point.

A woman has a right to determine the use of her own body. This includes the right to end a pregnancy withing certain limits (reasonable limits on rights do not negate rights). It's true that abortion means killing a fetus, but that's not the objective. The objective is to end the pregnancy.

Let's try an analogy. Suppose Joe has bone cancer in his right arm. The treatment, unfortunately, involves amputating the arm. If he sought treatement, would you insisit on making it a point to say "Joe wants to have his arm chopped off"? Or would you say he's seeking treatment to save his life?
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
FrankScoblete
FrankScoblete
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January 31st, 2014 at 8:09:47 AM permalink
I am not sure the arm thing works, Nareed. After all, the fetus is another human being. Yes, the mother can decide to terminate the fetus' life but that fetus (short of being ill) could go on to a full life. A sick arm can't go on to good-arm-dom. In addition, the question with the arm is this: Are you a pro-surgery or anti-surgery person or doctor? The issue is surgery.

Ending the pregnancy is a euphemism for killing the fetus. You can end a pregnancy by delivering the baby and giving it up for adoption.

Women do not have full rights to their bodies in our society; nor do men have full rights to their bodies. As a living person you can't offer to give your healthy heart to a sick patient in dire need of a heart; nor can any man do this because killing yourself this way is against the law. Of course, being killed in a war is perfectly okay.

You can't prostitute yourself in almost all areas of the country. It's your body; you should be able to sell it. (Prostitution is truly awful. I'm just using this as an example. I say legalize it and shun it.)

Now if you want to proclaim "a woman has a right to use her body as she wishes" you can create a name such as Body Control or something that says what it means. (I know "Body Control" stinks as a saying but I couldn't come up with a good one.)

Oh, well, I've had enough of a break. I gotta get back to writing my new book.

My latest published book is "Confessions of a Wayward Catholic."
gpac1377
gpac1377
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January 31st, 2014 at 8:25:28 AM permalink
Quote: FrankScoblete

killing yourself ... is against the law.


It shouldn't be.

Quote:

I say legalize it and shun it.


(referring to prostitution)

Yes, exactly. You can support individual liberty without endorsing destructive behavior.

Frank, you should write a book. Have you published anything?
"Scientists tell us that the fastest animal on earth, with a top speed of 120 feet per second, is a cow that has been dropped out of a helicopter."
Nareed
Nareed
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January 31st, 2014 at 8:32:46 AM permalink
Quote: FrankScoblete

I am not sure the arm thing works, Nareed. After all, the fetus is another human being.



No, a fetus is not a human being. It's a potential human being. That's why there are reasonable limits for abortion. The pregnant woman, on the other hand, is not a potential woman but an actual one.

Quote:

Women do not have full rights to their bodies in our society; nor do men have full rights to their bodies.



Throughout human history there ahve been unjust laws that limit people's rights. That does not make them any less unjust or any more immoral. Morally men and women have full and absolute rights to the use of their own bodies.

Quote:

As a living person you can't offer to give your healthy heart to a sick patient in dire need of a heart; nor can any man do this because killing yourself this way is against the law. Of course, being killed in a war is perfectly okay.

You can't prostitute yourself in almost all areas of the country. It's your body; you should be able to sell it. (Prostitution is truly awful. I'm just using this as an example. I say legalize it and shun it.)



You should have a legal right to give up your heart if you wish. I can even see cases where it would be rational to do so (very rare and very unlikely cases, though; must be the influence of Dr. Hsieh's book on Moral Luck). Of coruse, just because you have that moral right, does not men a surgical team has an obligation to provide you with the means.

And we're agreed prostitution shouold be legal and nobody's business but that of the people involved in it. How do you feel about legalizing all drugs? That will happen within my lifetime, I'm sure of it.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Face
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January 31st, 2014 at 8:33:14 AM permalink
Quote: FrankScoblete

Women do not have full rights to their bodies in our society; nor do men have full rights to their bodies. As a living person you can't offer to give your healthy heart to a sick patient in dire need of a heart; nor can any man do this because killing yourself this way is against the law. Of course, being killed in a war is perfectly okay.

You can't prostitute yourself in almost all areas of the country. It's your body; you should be able to sell it. (Prostitution is truly awful. I'm just using this as an example. I say legalize it and shun it.)



Aren't these perfect examples in favor of legalization?

Sure, we "can't" do these things, but free-will and all that jazz. As a result, people still do them, just usually in much more awful ways than they could otherwise. Would not a clean, regulated brothel be better than some dirty street walker? Wouldn't needle induced euthanasia be better than jumping off the Golden Gate? Wouldn't an observed and controlled medical procedure be better than stabbing around with a coat hanger?
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FrankScoblete
FrankScoblete
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January 31st, 2014 at 9:03:51 AM permalink
Good points all around. I tend to say legalize all drugs but don't use them or, at least, make them illegal for my grandchildren to use. Legalize gambling in all states. There are a lot of things I think should be legal that I don't like and wouldn't do. Cigarettes should be legal but I don't think people should smoke. That type of thing.

Anyway back to my original piece. No euphemisms.

Nareed, do you really think that a fetus is not a human being? A fetus has more awareness than my mother did at the end of her life. I always considered my mother human even though she was in the lowest depths of Alzheimers. She wasn't growing like a fetus, she was rotting right in front of me. The last few weeks I don't think she had any consciousness. Now, if you ask me had my mother said I could kill her should she get to that point (and I wouldn't be arrested) I would have killed her to stop her suffering. But she was a human being right up to the time of her death. (A human being I loved all the way through.)

Do you think that using the idea that a fetus is somehow less of a human than, say, me, that makes it okay to kill it? Or is that a convenient excuse to get out of the moral issue that you have the right to kill a human being at this stage of his/her life? Defining away humanity allows us to kill more easily than if we concede the individual we can kill is a human being. When Margaret Sanger wanted to get rid of the mentally retarded she made them less than human as a way to argue her point.

So I am not afraid to grant to the fetus the humanity that it has.

My new book is "Confessions of a Wayward Catholic."
mickeycrimm
mickeycrimm
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January 31st, 2014 at 9:05:31 AM permalink
Well, Frankie, you sure know how to get a guy going. I support a women's right to choose, to a limit. First trimester, after that it's murder. And I damn sure don't support partial birth abortion, where they partially pull the baby out of the womb, then kill it. If they pull the baby all the way out of the womb and kill it they could be charged with murder, so they only pull it half way out. What? Do they think I'm an idiot?

Terms that movements use to push their agendas are laughable, like "Pro Choice" and "Pro Life." How about this all time classic "Patriot Act." If I give up my rights I'm a patriot. If I don't I'm a traitor. It looks like I'm a traitor because I don't care what the law says. I ain't giving up any of my rights. My rights are my heritage, guaranteed to me by the Constitution of the United States. If you step on my rights I will step on your head.

Here's a New Gingrich special "Class Warfare." Kiss my ass, Newt.
"Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm

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