2016 Election
Quote: AZDuffmanIn any case, Obama sure does not think much of white Christians.
You know this how?
Quote: WizardYou know this how?
The "bitter clingers" thing for one. Comparing islamic terror to Christians in the crusades for another. For still another, deafening silence about the Oregon killer targeting Christians. Had the guy targeted say gays you can only imagine how loud he would be. Also bringing a gay female and pro abortion nun to meet the Pope.
Quote: ams288https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2015/10/06/alabama-clarifies-voter-confusion/qYHKjeGSURhMaxeYtJG6dI/story.html
Not a pile of crap.
Reality. (Admittedly a hard concept for some on the right to grasp).
Again, you are not listening to my position--I want them free and easy to get. I am sure that many people agree with that.
POLITICAL OPERATIVES on the one side may want to suppress votes; on the other, they want people who are not eligible to vote (non-citizens) to be allowed to vote.
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-hayduk-let-noncitizens-vote-20141223-story.html
Are you against that, too, or just ID's?
Quote: terapinedI just don't get the Obama is a muslim
I watched the moving eulogy at the Mother Emanuel A.M.E. Church in Charleston
This a Christian church that Black Christians know well
Obama sang an incredibly moving version of Amazing Grace.
What is it with white Christians, the black church does not count?
I don't get it either.
It is curious...he gets a pass on being judged as a congregant of a radical preacher
while some try to pin him as being a Muslim.
I don't think he is a Muslim.
I don't think he was born somewhere besides Hawaii.
I do think that his preacher and his friends had a lot of influence on him and I don't
think that is a good thing.
Quote: AZDuffmanNot going to keep repeating all of this.
In any case, Obama sure does not think much of white Christians.
I think you, very cavalierly, disregard the fact that President Obama is half-white, that he has demonstrated time and again that he lives and breathes Christian values that themselves are colorblind and inclusive, and that he has specifically turned the other cheek thousands of times when confronted by insults and mistruths like this one.
The "Christians" that he seems to deplore are those who hate, kill, judge others, exclude others from their rights and dignities, demonstrate their "superiority" by making others feel inferior (and making sure they stay inferior through predatory practices and legislation), refuse to help the poor, build unimaginable wealth on the backs of their employees, customers, or congregation, all in the name of being good Christians, and all of which is directly in opposition to Christ's teachings.
My question is, why don't you agree with him on this, and live by the same higher standard Christ advocated, as he does? How can you defend what these people do in the name of Christ? Americans, unfortunately, yes, most of them. Christians, no.
Quote: AZDuffmanFor still another, deafening silence about the Oregon killer targeting Christians. Had the guy targeted say gays you can only imagine how loud he would be.
First, the gunman was targeting any theist.
Second, "all lives matter." It should be no more or less a crime no matter the race, religion, or sexuality of the victims. I agree with Obama not playing the religion card in this case.
Quote: WizardFirst, the gunman was targeting any theist.
He asked one girl what her religion was and she responded "nothing."
He still shot her in the back. She survived though.
But you are correct, in no way was he targeting Christians.
Quote: ams288He asked one girl what her religion was and she responded "nothing."
He still shot her in the back. She survived though.
I'm not saying you're wrong but on either CBS or NBC they said if the victim said any religion he/she was shot with the intent to kill, otherwise in the leg.
Quote: beachbumbabsI think you, very cavalierly, disregard the fact that President Obama is half-white, that he has demonstrated time and again that he lives and breathes Christian values that themselves are colorblind and inclusive, and that he has specifically turned the other cheek thousands of times when confronted by insults and mistruths like this one.
Sorry, I just do not see it. I do not see him "colorblind" or "turning the other cheek." I see a petty, partisan, vindictive person in Obama. (Of course, as a staunch Democrat your mileage may vary.........)
Quote:The "Christians" that he seems to deplore are those who hate, kill, judge others, exclude others from their rights and dignities, demonstrate their "superiority" by making others feel inferior (and making sure they stay inferior through predatory practices and legislation), refuse to help the poor, build unimaginable wealth on the backs of their employees, customers, or congregation, all in the name of being good Christians, and all of which is directly in opposition to Christ's teachings.
What do you mean by "exclude others from their rights and dignities? I am guessing that you think Christians need to give up their core beliefs to get with what is PC?
Quote:My question is, why don't you agree with him on this, and live by the same higher standard Christ advocated, as he does?
Obama has few if any personal values that I agree with. And sorry, but I do not see many Christian Values in him. I will make my own judgements as to if I am living by the standards Christ set, thank you very much.
Quote: AZDuffman
What do you mean by "exclude others from their rights and dignities? I am guessing that you think Christians need to give up their core beliefs to get with what is PC? .
If a Christian is against gay marriage, its totally ok.
I could care less.
The problem is anti-gay marriage Christians imposing their views on others
2 total strangers that are males and want to get married
Its not a Christians right to prevent this.
Or is your view that atheists like me must follow the bible. I believe in freedom from make believe religion.
Quote: AZDuffman
Obama has few if any personal values that I agree with. And sorry, but I do not see many Christian Values in him. I will make my own judgements as to if I am living by the standards Christ set, thank you very much.
What are "living by the standards Christ set"?
Unfortunately there is no standard.
The Westboro Baptist church believes they are "living by the standards Christ set"
So does the Pope
So do many Black Churches that support Obama
So does Franklin Graham that has a problem with Obama
So does Pat Robertson that blamed gays and other Americans for 911
All these people believe they are "living by the standards Christ set"
Quote: terapinedIf a Christian is against gay marriage, its totally ok.
I could care less.
The problem is anti-gay marriage Christians imposing their views on others
2 total strangers that are males and want to get married
Its not a Christians right to prevent this.
Or is your view that atheists like me must follow the bible. I believe in freedom from make believe religion.
It is my view that marriage is one man and one woman. Religion does not enter into it at all. Just nature.
But gays need to quit fighting this battle. They have their equality, now they need to shut up and live the quiet lives they claim they wanted. Reality is they would rather fight for equality than have it.
very hard to dislike. He's such an alpha male
that you want to be on his side. He did 20 min
on Special Report tonight and was compelling
as hell. For sure the most likable candidate
I've probably ever seen. Too bad he has such
gaping holes in knowing how to get anything
done in DC.
Quote: WizardYou know this how?
At least Saddam and Assad protected their Christians.
This one is forcing us to accept 250,000 so called refugees this year alone, but there is no room for twelve Christians.
'We are no longer a Christian nation" -Guess Who
Door to US Asylum Closed
Shoebat
Hopefully, other nations will accept them.
Now having her people put out that Biden released the info Beau wanted him to run for political advantage.
I'm sure she has more tricks in the bag and nothing is too low for her.
Imagine what she would do to the lady in the general public today who allowed her husband to stick a cigar in her!
Quote: Tanko
'We are no longer a Christian nation" -Guess Who
.
We shouldn't be a Christian nation
We should be a nation that respects all religions equally
We should also be a nation that respects atheists.
Quote: BozHow low will Hillary go?
She will go low, really low.
Will it work? Will it backfire?
Its Presidential politics.
Its for all the marbles
I'll have the popcorn out.
Quote: MoosetonI don't gamble online but if I did I might consider betting on a Trump/Cruz ticket. I'm convinced they're allies. Never any attacks between the two and Donald made a comment a while back that seemed like their buds.
I kind of feel like this could be a "thing" in the making, and if they get a ticket like that together, and announce it early, they might just steamroll the GoP before we really get into the primaries. You'd essentially reduce the nominees to Trump/Cruz, Bush, Huckabee, and Rubio.
I'm guessing Rand/Carson drop sooner rather than later, despite Carson's hold on the polls, with this whole medical malpractice thing going on, he'll be pressured to drop fast.
Quote: WizardHere are my personal predictions, not based on anything on the market:
Clinton 50% chance of Dem nomination
Biden 45% chance of Dem nomination
Sanders 5% chance of Dem nomination
Trump 15% chance of GoP nomination
Bush 45% chance of GoP nomination
Rubio 40% chance of GoP nomination
I'm just curious, what are you basing your predictions off of, then?
Some strong gut feeling that Trump would fold and Bush would get public favor somehow, despite the anti-bush fellowship?
And biden at a 45% chance? Where's the value from that assertion, Hillary has this one basically locked with like a near 60% poll share at times lol.
Quote: Exoter175I'm just curious, what are you basing your predictions off of, then?
Some strong gut feeling that Trump would fold and Bush would get public favor somehow, despite the anti-bush fellowship?
And biden at a 45% chance? Where's the value from that assertion, Hillary has this one basically locked with like a near 60% poll share at times lol.
I base them completely off guessing.
Regarding Trump, I think he is only in this for the attention and will drop out when his poll numbers sag, which they eventually will.
I know excitement for Bush is low right now, but he has a name and money. The GOP has a tendency to settle on the safe choice. Rubio is the only other candidate who I see as viable.
Biden I predict will run and immediately poll about equally as Hillary. It isn't that anybody is in love with Biden but there are a lot of Democrats who don't like Hillary much, including me.
Quote: Wizard
Regarding Trump, I think he is only in this for the attention and will drop out when his poll numbers sag, which they eventually will.
I know excitement for Bush is low right now, but he has a name and money. The GOP has a tendency to settle on the safe choice. Rubio is the only other candidate who I see as viable.
Also, he has the same problem of Sanders. The reason people like him is the same reason the parties and their cronies in places like the media cannot tolerate him. That is, he is kind of a free wheeling guy who is likely to do what he thinks is right, rather than what is dictated by special interests.
The entire point of a political party, particularly at this stage, is to get into office and sell off favors and influence. If someone does not want to do that, why would the party want them in? Better to wait and try again in 4 years.
What if Trump actually did try to stop illegal immigration instead of just race baiting? The people who write the checks don't want that.
What if it's time for a new war and he wants to see real justifications for it? That could be a disaster.
He was reminded that he voted against hurricane Sandy federal flood relief for New Jersey
His response
"I don't remember that vote"
LOL
karma is a bitch
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/sen-lindsey-graham-wants-federal-aid-for-south-170558528.html
Quote: terapinedRepublican Presidential candidate Lindsey Graham is demanding federal relief funds for South Carolina flooding
He was reminded that he voted against hurricane Sandy federal flood relief for New Jersey
His response
"I don't remember that vote"
LOL
karma is a bitch
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/sen-lindsey-graham-wants-federal-aid-for-south-170558528.html
He's a Democrat in Republican clothes. He'll never be President; hell, he isn't even good at what he does now!!
Just another case of him acting like a Democrat.
Power just about has Trump, Bush and Rubio
tied. 3 months ago Trump was 150/1. Now
he's 3/1. Trump and Bush are tied at 9/2
to beat Hillary at 11/8.
http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/us-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=481890
And no, the fact that MacDonald has attempted to take the party line and retract his statement is not going to work; he validated everything she's ever said about there being a "vast, right-wing conspiracy" and all the rest, and he's only making it worse. Where there's smoke....is now going to work against the innuendo and rumor crowd instead of for them, at least in the middle, which is the ultimate audience for all of this stuff.
The only questions for her success now are whether Biden will run, and will something unknown now happen before the election.
That's just how it is.
Quote: beachbumbabsThe straightforward admission by MacDonald that the Bengazi investigation is/was aimed at destroying Hillary Clinton's campaign and poll numbers is echoing out there among the casual political followers. It's going to be a butterfly effect that's going to change the prevailing wisdom from against her to for her as the victim of a targeted smear campaign. That hasn't happened yet, but with repetition through campaign ads and media reports, it's going to make a difference.
Don't kid yourself, the casual voter hasn't even heard about it. Hillary is in a tailspin and is so personally unlikable that Biden is going to come in and walk away with the Democrat nomination.
Quote: AZDuffmanDon't kid yourself, the casual voter hasn't even heard about it. Hillary is in a tailspin and is so personally unlikable that Biden is going to come in and walk away with the Democrat nomination.
I said, it hasn't happened yet. It's building. It'll take a month or so for it to register.
Quote: beachbumbabsI said, it hasn't happened yet. It's building. It'll take a month or so for it to register.
Do you really think anybody in the country
gives a rip about Bengay or whatever it's
called, except Gowdy? Elections are about
personalities, always have been. That's
why Johnson didn't run in 68, he came
across as an arrogant jerk and he knew
it. Rubio might stand a chance because
he's a pretty/boy, but Biden is likable
and Hillary isn't. My money is on Joe
for the nomination.
Quote: beachbumbabsThe straightforward admission by MacDonald that the Bengazi investigation is/was aimed at destroying Hillary Clinton's campaign and poll numbers is echoing out there among the casual political followers. It's going to be a butterfly effect that's going to change the prevailing wisdom from against her to for her as the victim of a targeted smear campaign. That hasn't happened yet, but with repetition through campaign ads and media reports, it's going to make a difference.
And no, the fact that MacDonald has attempted to take the party line and retract his statement is not going to work; he validated everything she's ever said about there being a "vast, right-wing conspiracy" and all the rest, and he's only making it worse. Where there's smoke....is now going to work against the innuendo and rumor crowd instead of for them, at least in the middle, which is the ultimate audience for all of this stuff.
The only questions for her success now are whether Biden will run, and will something unknown now happen before the election.
That's just how it is.
Sorry, but I don't think it will help her all that much. It was a non-candidate saying something about the process, not one of her opponents. Most people involved at this point don't want to hear about a "vast right-wing conspiracy" or "Benghazi"...they want to know what is in it for them (this why promises of things that sound good as "freebies" but will cost a lot of money we don't have work...) and, most importantly, they want to vote for someone they like or they already understand that she is from a corrupt political machine and don't want her no matter what.
By the time she can use it to her advantage, the issue will be too old, the guy won't be Speaker, and it won't matter...
Politically, Hillary was a decent candidate in 2008. She got slammed by someone people liked; not by someone who was necessarily a better potential President than her.
I think if Joe runs he may well win; that's why I had it as a caveat. But I just don't know that he will. There are just as many reasons for him not to run as there are for him to do it, and he may look at some of the criticism and traps waiting for him and just cringe at the thought. If he doesn't, he lets his lifetime dream die. And while he has a healthy ego about his deserving to be President, I think he also is a dedicated public servant and would be running for the right reasons if he does. I just don't know, as do any of us.
Before you ask:
Plagarism claims
Clarence Thomas hearings and how he shut down testimony
Various gaffes from the past, like the thing about "chains", whatever that quote was
Can't recall the other one; might edit this to add it later.
Quote: RonCBy the time she can use it to her advantage, the issue will be too old, the guy won't be Speaker, and it won't matter...
Always interesting to hear someone from the Republican Party, the party that has been beating the dead Benghazi horse for the past 4 years, predict which issues will be "too old."
I said it on day 1, his comment was a major gaffe for the Republican Party. You say he "won't be speaker," I'm not so sure about that...
Hillary is already using it to her advantage. I keep seeing pro-Hillary ads on TV using it.
This is one genie that can't be put back in the bottle.
Benghazi is one example.
Pat Tillman is another example
If the Obama admin lied to Pat Tillman's parents about his death, we would have an endless right wing committee "investigating"
The reality is the Bush administration knew Pat Tillman was killed by friendly fire but they lied to the family for political purposes.
Bottom line is you don't lie to the parents of fallen soldiers
You give them the honest truth
Quote: beachbumbabs
Various gaffes from the past, like the thing about "chains", whatever that quote was
Can't recall the other one; might edit this to add it later.
[www.youtube.com=f7Q1I6PIIuY]
Even here he sounds more likable than Hillary.
Quote: terapinedHe's been a Black Christian that attended a Black church for decades in Chicago
Again
What is it with white Christians, the Black Christian church does not count?
Obama may not be a Christian and he may not be Muslim either. I doubt he has the prayer mats out. I doubt he is religious at all. Obama's history is that he has a military force working in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria now mostly hunting down extremist Muslims. I don't think a moderate Muslim or even a moderate Christian would advocate those actions.
Obama's history is moderate support of Israel while seeking peace with Palestine. The Iran deal will be seen by the GOP republicans as allowing Iran to become nuclear. It will be seen as a victory for the Dems who have delayed peril for the region by a decade or so.
Israel would prefer to see Iran extremely weakened today and the deal allows Iran to be strong provided that is not nuclear. Ant action by the US government seen as anti-Israel scores political points. Some people figure that the deal punts Iran 15-20 years to allow it to become strong and then tell the international community to screw off, it's going nuclear, what are you going to do about it? Others feel that a stronger Iran will allow its people to become part of the world community and pressure its government to moderate its actions and views.
I see both sides point of view.
Quote: RonCSorry, but I don't think it will help her all that much. It was a non-candidate saying something about the process, not one of her opponents. Most people involved at this point don't want to hear about a "vast right-wing conspiracy" or "Benghazi"...they want to know what is in it for them (this why promises of things that sound good as "freebies" but will cost a lot of money we don't have work...) and, most importantly, they want to vote for someone they like or they already understand that she is from a corrupt political machine and don't want her no matter what.
By the time she can use it to her advantage, the issue will be too old, the guy won't be Speaker, and it won't matter...
Politically, Hillary was a decent candidate in 2008. She got slammed by someone people liked; not by someone who was necessarily a better potential President than her.
You can't have it both ways. You want to use Benghazi against her as a reason not to vote for her, and then in the same paragraph deny that there wasn't an concerted effort to keep it going by the right. Only those already polarized against her will carry that opinion. Those who are on the left obviously knew before the statement that it was the right pushing this. The ones who are on the fence now have the statement that it was a right-wing led effort and will discount the Benghazi feelings that they may have had.
And the ones that don't care will continue not to care.
Quote: terapinedIf a Christian is against gay marriage, its totally ok. I could care less.
The problem is anti-gay marriage Christians imposing their views on others
2 total strangers that are males and want to get married. Its not a Christians right to prevent this.
Or is your view that atheists like me must follow the bible. I believe in freedom from make believe religion.
What are "living by the standards Christ set"?
Unfortunately there is no standard.
The Westboro Baptist church believes they are "living by the standards Christ set"
So does the Pope. So do many Black Churches that support Obama. So does Franklin Graham that has a problem with Obama.
So does Pat Robertson that blamed gays and other Americans for 911. All these people believe they are "living by the standards Christ set"
Those standards that you talk about, unfortunately, are open to interpretation. Christ said nothing in particular about gay marriage. It is mentioned in Romans which validates Jesus' view and most Christians are against homosexual union as it is an active sin. Even churches that invite gay people into their midst hope that they will believe in Christ, follow him, and repent (turn straight). Progressive churches believe that everyone lives in active sin and that gay people are an example of that. They acknowledge that even its leaders are sinners and allow gay people to become ministers. For me, this is not something that is consistent with Christian teachings. I don't know of a Christian point of view that believes that gay people are not sinning in the eyes of the Lord, but it not up to me to judge. Most people in a congregation have different and sometimes opposing views on these issues.
If there was one interpretation of the Bible that was clear you wouldn't see a division of Catholics from Protestants and you wouldn't see the various denominations of Christianity all with different views. This includes the various points of views on homosexual unions.
Christians have their 1st amendment right to express an opinion, just as you do. It is up to the lawmakers to make the law and it is up to you to follow the law or face its consequences. Up until a generation ago, homosexual behavior was seen as a mental disorder that needed to be cured. Obviously, with today's understanding of science that is not true. The advancement of the laws towards recognizing gay marriages and unions is a progressive understanding of the prevailing views of the world, and I think (despite me being Christian) that is a good thing.
if you are a republican and you speak honestly about how political the Benghazi investigation is
Your honesty will prevent you from becoming Speaker
Mccarthy drops out of speaker race
What a tough job, you cant govern or pass anything with the tea party of NO
Quote: terapined
What a tough job, you cant govern or pass anything with the tea party of NO
Good, the less new laws passed the better.
Quote: RonCthe guy won't be Speaker, and it won't matter...
Well, I've got to hand it to you, you were right about that!
The Democrats just need to sit back and let the Republicans run around like chickens with their heads cut off.
Time and time again the right shows their inability to govern.
Quote: ams288This is another gift for the left.
The Democrats just need to sit back and let the Republicans run around like chickens with their heads cut off.
Time and time again the right shows their inability to govern.
Time and time again you say.
I point to the current Democratic presidential administration and ask just a simple little three word question.
Is this better?
Quote: TwoFeathersATLTime and time again you say.
I point to the current Democratic presidential administration and ask just a simple little three word question.
Is this better?
Absolutely positively yes
We certainly don't want an anti gay hateful republican President
Quote: terapinedAbsolutely positively yes
We certainly don't want an anti gay hateful republican President
But you didn't say why.
I'm semi OK with anti gay.
I don't have a problem with "hateful" , depending on how it is defined. I hate some things.
And you answered?
Quote: TwoFeathersATLTime and time again you say.
I point to the current Democratic presidential administration and ask just a simple little three word question.
Is this better?
Absolutely 100% yes. Not even close.
Obama brilliantly pointed it out in his press conference the other day: he doesn't threaten to shut down the government and tank the economy over not getting what he wants (i.e. Gun control) the way the Republicans repeatedly do.
Quote: ams288
Obama brilliantly pointed it out in his press conference the other day: he doesn't threaten to shut down the government and tank the economy over not getting what he wants (i.e. Gun control) the way the Republicans repeatedly do.
Funny, seems to me he said he will shut it down unless Planned Parenthood is funded.
He is also the same guy who refused to vote to increase the debt limit.
Quote: AZDuffmanFunny, seems to me he said he will shut it down unless Planned Parenthood is funded.
He is also the same guy who refused to vote to increase the debt limit.
What Kenny Rogers said:
Know when to hold them, know when to fold.
Too many rightwingers want to go over a cliff with their flag flying. (reminds me of a quote)
Quote: ams288Absolutely 100% yes. Not even close.
Obama brilliantly pointed it out in his press conference the other day: he doesn't threaten to shut down the government and tank the economy over not getting what he wants (i.e. Gun control) the way the Republicans repeatedly do.
Ya da, ya da. I'm not sure how you found and stated the anything to be "brilliantly". Perhaps you should have added "IMO". Gun control is (once again) a new topic for Barry, I forget what last week's topic was. Next week's will be something else. I wish he believed in something, just about anything. Then I could decide whether I like and support this man, this President for some other reason that he simply, with a lot of respect from me, is the President. I find it hard to perceive his heart.
I suspect, and hope, that he will let the gun thing die down again. He knows the truth, I believe that.
Quote: rxwine
Too many rightwingers want to go over a cliff with their flag flying. (reminds me of a quote)
Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.
Quote: TwoFeathersATLYa da, ya da. I'm not sure how you found and stated the anything to be "brilliantly". Perhaps you should have added "IMO". Gun control is (once again) a new topic for Barry, I forget what last week's topic was. Next week's will be something else. I wish he believed in something, just about anything. Then I could decide whether I like and support this man, this President for some other reason that he simply, with a lot of respect from me, is the President. I find it hard to perceive his heart.
I suspect, and hope, that he will let the gun thing die down again. He knows the truth, I believe that.
You asked for a reason why he's a better leader than the Republicans and I gave you one.
Moving on...
