Las Vegas Noise Survey
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March 14th, 2010 at 3:30:18 PM
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Yesterday I took decibel measurements of every Vegas casino between Flamingo Blvd. and the Encore. My motive is that I have always felt that Vegas casinos are too noisy. In particular, I find the music too be too loud, especially at night, and slot machines too noisy and annoying. By comparison, Macau casinos are so much more quiet and tranquil (except around a "hot" baccarat table).
So, armed with a cheap Radio Shack decibel meter I roamed about each casino. The time of the survey was 6:15 PM to 8:40 PM on Saturday, March 12, 2010. I noticed spikes in certain places, like near a speaker, "pleasure pit," slot machine that just hit a significant award, and any kind of live entertainment. I did my best to factor out such spikes, and consider only the consistent minimum noise level. That said, the following table shows my results.
I think the bottom line is that there isn't a big range. As a rule of thumb, the fancier casinos tend to be quieter. There is also a margin of error of about 3 degrees due to personal interpretation of the average, and specific parts of the casino I happened to wander through. Between the small range and margin of error I doubt I'll bother testing the other casinos, except perhaps for future reviews.
So, armed with a cheap Radio Shack decibel meter I roamed about each casino. The time of the survey was 6:15 PM to 8:40 PM on Saturday, March 12, 2010. I noticed spikes in certain places, like near a speaker, "pleasure pit," slot machine that just hit a significant award, and any kind of live entertainment. I did my best to factor out such spikes, and consider only the consistent minimum noise level. That said, the following table shows my results.
| Casino | Decibels |
|---|---|
| Wynn | 74 |
| Encore | 76 |
| TI | 77 |
| Bill's | 78 |
| Caesars Palace | 78 |
| Mirage | 78 |
| Palazzo | 78 |
| Flamingo | 79 |
| Harrah's | 80 |
| Venetian | 80 |
| Casino Royale | 81 |
| Imperial Palace | 82 |
| O'Shea's | 82 |
I think the bottom line is that there isn't a big range. As a rule of thumb, the fancier casinos tend to be quieter. There is also a margin of error of about 3 degrees due to personal interpretation of the average, and specific parts of the casino I happened to wander through. Between the small range and margin of error I doubt I'll bother testing the other casinos, except perhaps for future reviews.
Last edited by: Wizard on Mar 15, 2010
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 14th, 2010 at 5:05:24 PM
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In an earlier post I stated:
Wynn made $158.991 million in slots in 2008.
Wynn/Encore made $161.593 million in slots in 2009
An increase of $2.602 million or 1.64%
That is virtually no increase for 800 slot machines. Of course that might just be an artifact of the recession.
But I tend to think that if they had just left the slot machines out of the Encore Casino, people would seek it out just because of the reduced noise It would be a real attraction, that would uniquely define the Encore Casino out above the Bellagio, Aria, Palazzo, etc. The slot machines are always available in the Wynn Casino.
Wynn made $158.991 million in slots in 2008.
Wynn/Encore made $161.593 million in slots in 2009
An increase of $2.602 million or 1.64%
That is virtually no increase for 800 slot machines. Of course that might just be an artifact of the recession.
But I tend to think that if they had just left the slot machines out of the Encore Casino, people would seek it out just because of the reduced noise It would be a real attraction, that would uniquely define the Encore Casino out above the Bellagio, Aria, Palazzo, etc. The slot machines are always available in the Wynn Casino.
March 14th, 2010 at 6:01:22 PM
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When I was walking through the Encore last weekend, it seemed to be a quiet, small casino that caters to their own guests. To get to the Encore casino from outside you have to walk quite a distance down the street with no attractions. So, most people get to the Encore casino via the Wynn, and the path to the Encore is not obvious from inside the Wynn. And while the Encore is different in tone and color from the Wynn with lower ceilings, brighter colors and a more intimate feeling (in my opinion), it is close enough to the Wynn's casino to be indifferent from a play experience.
It would be quite an experiment to open a tables only casino. Slots is what makes by far the bulk of revenue at a casino and i don't know who would take such a risk and be able to deliver the margins necessary to make it profitable and serve its shareholders.
It would be quite an experiment to open a tables only casino. Slots is what makes by far the bulk of revenue at a casino and i don't know who would take such a risk and be able to deliver the margins necessary to make it profitable and serve its shareholders.
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March 14th, 2010 at 6:20:03 PM
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I like the Encore too. It resembles the Wynn Macao in style -- boxy with lots of red. Despite less foot traffic from tourists, you'll note it was noisier than the Wynn. They seem to have the volume of the music up louder there.
Rather than a table game only casino, I'd rather see just one smoke-free casino. The Encore would be a perfect. They could steer the smokers to the regular Wynn, and keep the Encore as a non-smoking niche casino.
Rather than a table game only casino, I'd rather see just one smoke-free casino. The Encore would be a perfect. They could steer the smokers to the regular Wynn, and keep the Encore as a non-smoking niche casino.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 14th, 2010 at 8:06:43 PM
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The world is changing as slots are now everywhere. That's why I provided financial data.
On the strip slot revenue is only 5% higher than game revenue. Since we can assume that Excalibur and Luxor have much higher slot revenue than game revenue, it would seem logical by the time you get to Encore that the game revenue dominates. In addition there would be slot machines at the Wynn so they would be just down the hallway.
No-smoking is a nice idea as well, but I think it would be riskier than no slots.
On the strip slot revenue is only 5% higher than game revenue. Since we can assume that Excalibur and Luxor have much higher slot revenue than game revenue, it would seem logical by the time you get to Encore that the game revenue dominates. In addition there would be slot machines at the Wynn so they would be just down the hallway.
No-smoking is a nice idea as well, but I think it would be riskier than no slots.
March 14th, 2010 at 8:40:13 PM
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Now, that's odd. I can't stand loud music (I call what they play loudly in public places "music" to be charitable) or noisy places. So I was rather pleasantly surprised that most casinos were rather quiet. Oh, there's background noise and some slots are loud, but overall, save a few exceptions, I find casinos to be tranquil places.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
March 15th, 2010 at 5:13:30 AM
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Me too.Quote: Nareed...I find casinos to be tranquil places.
It's only when I stop, and give the noise a listen, do I realize how truly loud it is in there.
I think part of the reason you and I don't think it's too loud is, we're in a zone, we're in full gambling mode, nothing distracts us, etc.
The other reason is, while there is a lot of noise, it is more or less muted. For example, the electronic ringing bells of the slot machines are not as shrill as the real bells older slots used to use. All those machines making the same type of muted noise at the same time tends to make the overall volume higher, but turns the noise into more of a smooth tone that can be easily ignored.
At least that's what I attribute it to.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, irrational, childish rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
March 15th, 2010 at 6:12:21 AM
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For comparison: (reference - http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html)
Whisper Quiet Library 30dB
Normal conversation (3-5') 60-70dB
Sandblasting, Loud Rock Concert 115dB
Jet engine at 100', Gun Blast 140dB
Level at which sustained exposure may result in hearing loss 90 - 95dB
Pain begins 125dB
Decibel measurements are logarithmic, so a 10dB increase is perceived as twice as loud.
Whisper Quiet Library 30dB
Normal conversation (3-5') 60-70dB
Sandblasting, Loud Rock Concert 115dB
Jet engine at 100', Gun Blast 140dB
Level at which sustained exposure may result in hearing loss 90 - 95dB
Pain begins 125dB
Decibel measurements are logarithmic, so a 10dB increase is perceived as twice as loud.
March 15th, 2010 at 7:39:10 AM
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I don't mind the noise unless I am trying to ask a question, it has made that nearly impossible sometimes.
I agree casino noise can, in a perverse manner, set a tranquil mood. Perhaps only because "escape" may be desired?
This may be similar to wine, in that the more wine you drink, the drier you like it until you can't stand to have the same level of sweetness in wine you once liked [your experience may vary of course]. The more you hit casinos the more you hate the noise?
I agree casino noise can, in a perverse manner, set a tranquil mood. Perhaps only because "escape" may be desired?
This may be similar to wine, in that the more wine you drink, the drier you like it until you can't stand to have the same level of sweetness in wine you once liked [your experience may vary of course]. The more you hit casinos the more you hate the noise?
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
March 15th, 2010 at 7:51:29 AM
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Quote: WizardYesterday I took decibel measurements of every Vegas casino between Flamingo Blvd. and the Encore. My motive is that I have always felt that Vegas casinos are too noisy. In particular, I find the music too be too loud, especially at night, and slot machines too noisy and annoying. By comparison, Macau casinos are so much more quiet and tranquil (except around a "hot" baccarat table).
So, armed with a cheap Radio Shack decibel meter I roamed about each casino. The time of the survey was 6:15 PM to 8:40 PM on Saturday, June 12, 2010. I noticed spikes in certain places, like near a speaker, "pleasure pit," slot machine that just hit a significant award, and any kind of live entertainment. I did my best to factor out such spikes, and consider only the consistent minimum noise level. That said, the following table shows my results.
Casino Decibels Wynn 74 Encore 76 TI 77 Bill's 78 Caesars Palace 78 Mirage 78 Palazzo 78 Flamingo 79 Harrah's 80 Venetian 80 Casino Royale 81 Imperial Palace 82 O'Shea's 82
I think the bottom line is that there isn't a big range. As a rule of thumb, the fancier casinos tend to be quieter. There is also a margin of error of about 3 degrees due to personal interpretation of the average, and specific parts of the casino I happened to wander through. Between the small range and margin of error I doubt I'll bother testing the other casinos, except perhaps for future reviews.
Quite a range there. This says O'Shea's is about 10Xs as loud as Wynn. That isn't suprising, though to anyone who has been in both.
I don't like super-loud myself, but nwither would I want to be in a "quiet" place. Good to see that there is a place for everyone.
BTW: Do you have a "baseline" of what 80 decibels sounds like?
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
March 15th, 2010 at 7:59:54 AM
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Here's some additional data from http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html (the site SeatlleDice linked)Quote: AZDuffmanBTW: Do you have a "baseline" of what 80 decibels sounds like?
Telephone dial tone: 80dB
City Traffic (inside car): 85dB
Chamber music, small auditorium: 75 - 85dB
OSHA Daily Permissible Noise Level Exposure / Hours per day
8 hours - 90dB
6 hours - 92dB
Note that sound / volume is based upon distance.
I.E. The phone dial tone is only 80dB when you're holding it to your ear. Hold the phone at arm's length, and you can barely hear it.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, irrational, childish rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
March 15th, 2010 at 11:27:48 AM
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Quote: AZDuffman
Quite a range there. This says O'Shea's is about 10Xs as loud as Wynn. That isn't suprising, though to anyone who has been in both.
BTW: Do you have a "baseline" of what 80 decibels sounds like?
The Wynn was at 74, and O'Shaes's at 82. Every 10 points doubles the volume. Let's solve for how much an 8 point increase is. First, let's solve for 1 point. Let's call x the rate of increase in volume due to 1 point increase in the decibel scale...
(1+x)^10 = 2
10*log(1+x)=log(2)
log(1+x)=0.1*log(2)
log(1+x)=log(2^0.1)
1+x = 2^0.1
x=2^0.1-1
x=0.0718
So if casino x is one point higher than casino y, then x is 7.18% noisier. So if it is 8 points higher then it is (1.0718)^8 - 1 = 74.11% noisier. That does not seem unresonable to say that O'Shae's is 74% noisier than the Wynn.
80 decibels is noisy, but not painfully so. A good comparison would be a restaurant like Chili's on a busy Friday or Saturday night. I'm wondering how high the meter gets when I take it into a strip club -- probably mid-ninties.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 15th, 2010 at 11:30:02 AM
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Quote: Wizard
The Wynn was at 74, and O'Shaes's at 82. Every 10 points doubles the volume. Let's solve for how much an 8 point increase is. First, let's solve for 1 point. Let's call x the rate of increase in volume due to 1 point increase in the decibel scale...
My mistake, I thought 10 points was 10Xs the intensity. Maybe I confused it with the Richter Scale.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
March 15th, 2010 at 12:04:29 PM
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Quote: WizardThe time of the survey was 6:15 PM to 8:40 PM on Saturday, June 12, 2010.
Were you using the time-slip device that was described in the earlier thread "A FOOL-PROOF SYSTEM TO BEAT ROULETTE" by darkoz?
Just busting your chops. We all do this some time or another.
Phil: I'm pretty sure that's illegal too.
Alan: Yeah, maybe after 9/11, where everybody got so sensitive. Thanks a lot, bin Laden.
March 15th, 2010 at 12:23:27 PM
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I just noticed the time for the survey (and the curiously unnoticed time travel, too). That would explain part of my difference in perception, as I usually gamble earlier than that. I think most of my gaming goes on between 10 am and the early evening. Unfortunately I've become an early riser due to my job, and the 2 hour time difference with Vegas only makes it more pronounced (firts trip I was getting up at 5:30 am Vegas time!)
Anyway, I've notice that earlier there tend to be less people around, meaning less background speech noise and less noise from active slots and VP machines. I should get a db meter and do my own survey next trip. I could also use it to prove to my co-workers they really play the radio too loud (not that it matters).
I am rather sensitive to noise. I can't avoid the loud radio at the office, but I do avoid most other kinds of loud, noisy situations. I've walked out of perfectly fine restaurants because they were too noisy (before ordering, that is). I take ear plugs (foam) wherever I travel because other people on the bus or the plane talk too loud (I don't mind the noise made by the plane, btw, and yes I know it's loud even inside the cabin).
Anyway, I've notice that earlier there tend to be less people around, meaning less background speech noise and less noise from active slots and VP machines. I should get a db meter and do my own survey next trip. I could also use it to prove to my co-workers they really play the radio too loud (not that it matters).
I am rather sensitive to noise. I can't avoid the loud radio at the office, but I do avoid most other kinds of loud, noisy situations. I've walked out of perfectly fine restaurants because they were too noisy (before ordering, that is). I take ear plugs (foam) wherever I travel because other people on the bus or the plane talk too loud (I don't mind the noise made by the plane, btw, and yes I know it's loud even inside the cabin).
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
March 15th, 2010 at 8:24:12 PM
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Quote: AZDuffmanMy mistake, I thought 10 points was 10Xs the intensity. Maybe I confused it with the Richter Scale.
You are not mistaken: 10 points is 10X the intensity. "Loudness" or "volume" in the earlier post is the human perception of intensity and is measured in phons. An increase of 10 points is 10X the intensity but is perceived as roughly 2X the loudness.
March 15th, 2010 at 8:48:07 PM
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Quote: SplittingAA
Were you using the time-slip device that was described in the earlier thread "A FOOL-PROOF SYSTEM TO BEAT ROULETTE" by darkoz?
Just busting your chops. We all do this some time or another.
Doh! I deserved that one, thanks for going easy on me. While I corrected my earlier post, let the record show I did indeed say June instead of March.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 15th, 2010 at 10:21:21 PM
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For those Seattle-folk there Seahawks games tend to be at 110 when we're on defense, I work the games on the field and someone had a meter so I snuck a glimpse. For those of you who don't know, we tend to have the loudest crowd in the league resulting in the most false starts.
One problem I see with a slot-less casino is that the couples that are split, with one playing slots and the other table games, would have a much more difficult time getting together. Yes it's a five minute walk, but five minutes is much longer than 30 seconds.
One problem I see with a slot-less casino is that the couples that are split, with one playing slots and the other table games, would have a much more difficult time getting together. Yes it's a five minute walk, but five minutes is much longer than 30 seconds.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
March 15th, 2010 at 11:34:17 PM
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Quote: ahiromu
One problem I see with a slot-less casino is that the couples that are split, with one playing slots and the other table games, would have a much more difficult time getting together. Yes it's a five minute walk, but five minutes is much longer than 30 seconds.
Let me re-emphasize that slot revenue increased by $2.601 million when they built the Encore casino. Now for 800 slot machines that is $8.91 a day, barely enough to pay the electricity for the machines.
Now, obviously the revenue went down for all the machines, both the Encore and the Wynn. But the massive drop in slot revenue on the strip in the last year leaves the question open that some people may want something other than slots. The couple that wants to be within a few hundred yards of each other while he plays table games and she plays slots can opt to stay at the Wynn. I just feel that there may be hundreds of high rollers who don't want to hear slot machines, and would much prefer music. They are at the Venetian, the Palazzo, the Aria, Ceasasars and the Bellagio. It might be nice if they had somewhere to go.
As per our earlier discussion, the only rapidly growing gaming sector on the strip is Baccarat. Baccarat has already surpassed it's pre-recession levels while everything else is still plummeting. Hard Rock has completely redesigned their casino with their new hotel suites to attract the serious Asian baccarat player who was put off by the high noise levels of the old casino.
It's not that much of a risk since Wynn would still offer a more traditional set up.
March 16th, 2010 at 8:28:31 AM
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Quote: pacomartinYou are not mistaken: 10 points is 10X the intensity. "Loudness" or "volume" in the earlier post is the human perception of intensity and is measured in phons. An increase of 10 points is 10X the intensity but is perceived as roughly 2X the loudness.
This is a reason I LOVE THIS SITE. Come to learn about gambling and you also pick up on other stuff.
As long as we are going down this path, dows loudness increase the same as intensity. Or mathematically would:
80 points is 10 times as intense and 2 times as loud as 70 points so
90 points is 100 times as intense (10^2=100) and 4 times (2^2=4) as loud as 70?
Or am I showing why I needed to take algebra several times?
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
March 22nd, 2010 at 2:46:05 AM
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Quote: AZDuffmanOr am I showing why I needed to take algebra several times?
No need to go back to school. That is correct. However, loudness is a little more subjective than intensity. Loudness is based on human perception, and does vary from person to person. Some people are more sensitive.
March 22nd, 2010 at 10:10:22 AM
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Loudness is also subjective from sound to sound. As Car and Driver once put it, there's a difference between a Ferrari at 60 dB and a Hyundai at 60 dB. One is much more annoying than the other.
March 22nd, 2010 at 10:11:49 AM
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Or a siren at 60dB and a rain forest at 60dB.
March 22nd, 2010 at 10:21:11 AM
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There is also a weighting scale based on frequency. Humans hear different frequencies better so weighting scales are used. The rule that 10 decibels is double loudness is only at or near frequencies which we hear best.
One of the problems with evaluating the effects of loud noises such as navy SONAR on whales, is that whales do not have auditory tests like human beings to evaluate the correct weighting scales. You can measure intensity but loudness requires detailed knowledge of auditory sensitivity. Also whale evolution has developed better protections against loud noises, because the underwater environment is subject to all kinds of earthquakes or lightning strikes that our airborne environment is largely free of. The vocalizations of the whales themselves can be extremely loud, and their ears close off to protect themselves from their own calls.
One of the problems with evaluating the effects of loud noises such as navy SONAR on whales, is that whales do not have auditory tests like human beings to evaluate the correct weighting scales. You can measure intensity but loudness requires detailed knowledge of auditory sensitivity. Also whale evolution has developed better protections against loud noises, because the underwater environment is subject to all kinds of earthquakes or lightning strikes that our airborne environment is largely free of. The vocalizations of the whales themselves can be extremely loud, and their ears close off to protect themselves from their own calls.
