Are gay people born that way or is it simply a lifestyle choice?
Poll
 | 36 votes (63.15%) | ||
| | 21 votes (36.84%) |
57 members have voted
June 15th, 2012 at 9:22:46 AM
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oh good, then you are not going to discuss this any more??
please refrain from posting about gay topics then.
we can just talk about vegas and gambling
that would be fine with me.
please refrain from posting about gay topics then.
we can just talk about vegas and gambling
that would be fine with me.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
June 15th, 2012 at 9:23:36 AM
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Quote: rxwineDo you think the way Darwin approached macro evolution would just be considered as consensus for a long time, and should be rejected as science.
Aren't climatologist collecting data in the same way? Or not?
Kinda ... yes and no.
Indeed, I don't think that the macro evolution theory is science in the strict sense of the word. It does not mean that there is anything wrong with it. Love isn't science either, but it is a wonderful thing.
What makes evolution different from the climate change theory is that there is a lot of evidence supporting it, and virtually no argument against it. There are some holes in the data, but that is satisfactorily explained by the sparsity of the fossil evidence available. And also, there is no serious alternative theory that would support all the available evidence.
Situation with the climate change is opposite to that. Extremely week observational data, that can be easily and convincingly explained by a number of alternative theories, that to date stay unrefuted (and largely even undisputed), which usually are dismissed summarily without examination because of the "consensus".
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
June 15th, 2012 at 9:27:30 AM
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Maybe Bonobo monkeys aren't animals.Quote: AZDuffmanOnce again, there is no homosexuality in animals. Animals only have sex when reproduction is possible.
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
June 15th, 2012 at 9:27:46 AM
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Quote: weaselman"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
you and AZ seem to agree on nearly everything.
which one of you should i deem unnecessary?
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
June 15th, 2012 at 9:28:23 AM
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Quote: s2dbakerMaybe Bonobo monkeys aren't animals.
they aren't monkeys. lol
they do share about 98% of human DNA sequences though.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
June 15th, 2012 at 9:31:02 AM
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Quote: QuadDeucesIf Darwin was right, then the "gay gene" should eventually cease to exist, since reproduction amongst those who possess it is impossible.
Ok, I'll risk drawing the Wizard's wrath and being suspended.
That is an ignorant and stupid statement on so many levels, it's hard to know where to begin correcting it.
Any gene can persist if carrying it confers an advantage to some individuals, even if it cause problems to others. That's basic genetics.
Second, any couple can manage to procreate by artificial means, and many gay couples do so. Or do you think mindless sperm make a distinction when entering a lesbian's uterus, or when being collected from a gay man?
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
June 15th, 2012 at 9:31:59 AM
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Quote: AZDuffmanNo matter how it is shown to be a choice they reply "is not" like the Monty Python argument clinic..
Dick Cheney's daughter made a choice to be a lesbian?
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
June 15th, 2012 at 9:52:11 AM
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Quote: NareedOk, I'll risk drawing the Wizard's wrath and being suspended.
Don't worry. I somehow think you won't be suspended for vehemently defending the liberal point of view on any particular subject.
Quote:That is an ignorant and stupid statement on so many levels, it's hard to know where to begin correcting it.
Any gene can persist if carrying it confers an advantage to some individuals
The ADVANTAGE conferred is in being more "fit" as in survival of the "fittest" and being more capable of reproduction.
Quote:That's basic genetics.
Yup.
Quote:Second, any couple can manage to procreate by artificial means, and many gay couples do so. Or do you think mindless sperm make a distinction when entering a lesbian's uterus, or when being collected from a gay man?
That is true in modern times, but what about before that was possible?
You appear to be admitting that the gay gene must be propagated through traditional human reproduction.
The first recorded human artificial insemination was in the late 1700s. Are you maintaining that this was just in time to save the "gay gene" and that the gene somehow managed to survive the millions of years prior?
June 15th, 2012 at 9:59:57 AM
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Quote:The first recorded human artificial insemination was in the late 1700s. Are you maintaining that this was just in time to save the "gay gene" and that the gene somehow managed to survive the millions of years prior?
Don't forget thatt bisexual sex has always been around. (or claimed bisexuals, but either way, you can't claim purity of gene pool)
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
June 15th, 2012 at 10:02:23 AM
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Quote: WongBowhy does it not surprise me
that the resident "experts" on homosexuality
are also experts on global warming.
I think that makes it pretty clear: gays did global warming.
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June 15th, 2012 at 10:06:04 AM
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I'm not claiming purity. I'm merely stating the fact that "gay" - if genetic - is at a severe reproductive disadvantage.
They MUST have it be genetic, or a "born this way" phenomenon, like being born black or with blue eyes, in order to achieve the political status of "minority" they so desperately desire.
So desperate, they are, that they will discount one of their Gods, Charles Darwin, to get there.
If it's a choice, then it's a medical issue, like drug addiction.
They MUST have it be genetic, or a "born this way" phenomenon, like being born black or with blue eyes, in order to achieve the political status of "minority" they so desperately desire.
So desperate, they are, that they will discount one of their Gods, Charles Darwin, to get there.
If it's a choice, then it's a medical issue, like drug addiction.
June 15th, 2012 at 10:06:22 AM
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well, the sex is pretty hot.Quote: P90I think that makes it pretty clear: gays did global warming.
in fact i think i will start posting my history of sexual experiences in these threads.
would you guys like to hear about all the married men first or all of the "straight" college jocks?
AZ, weasel: which would turn you on more?
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
June 15th, 2012 at 10:10:07 AM
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Speaking of.. Just check Las Vegas' Craig's List to see how many "straight" guys are looking for a little something more.
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
June 15th, 2012 at 10:11:49 AM
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Posts about global warming have been moved to Climate Change -- conspiracy theory or is it time we all drive a Prius?.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
June 15th, 2012 at 10:13:49 AM
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now those are the guys making the choice.Quote: s2dbakerSpeaking of.. Just check Las Vegas' Craig's List to see how many "straight" guys are looking for a little something more.
the choice for a more fulfilling sex life.
i have had sex with women,
back when i was trying to choose heterosexuality.
the sex with men is so much better it isn't even comparable.
women just can't work a unit like a guy can.
and i like to wrestle someone into submission,
that's just no fun with some puny little woman.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
June 15th, 2012 at 10:16:12 AM
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Quote: WongBonow those are the guys making the choice.
the choice for a more fulfilling sex life.
i have had sex with women,
back when i was trying to choose heterosexuality.
the sex with men is so much better it isn't even comparable.
women just can't work a unit like a guy can.
and i like to wrestle someone into submission,
that's just no fun with some puny little woman.
Is this a serious post about yourself or are
you just making a point.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
June 15th, 2012 at 10:16:51 AM
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I think he is trying to induce vomiting.
A flute with no holes is not a flute, a donut with no holes is a danish
June 15th, 2012 at 10:18:50 AM
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you guys seem so fascinated by gays and gay sex,
i just figured you must want the details.
it's ok i won't tell your wife or your girlfriend.
i just figured you must want the details.
it's ok i won't tell your wife or your girlfriend.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
June 15th, 2012 at 10:19:52 AM
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Quote: s2dbakerSpeaking of.. Just check Las Vegas' Craig's List to see how many "straight" guys are looking for a little something more.
Unfortunately, on this site, the mention of Craigs List makes me think of the "Wizard of Massage" or whatever he was.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
June 15th, 2012 at 10:22:09 AM
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I did not just post this ad on Craig's List:
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
June 15th, 2012 at 10:50:26 AM
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Lets put it this way....if I really wanted to unleash my FULL view on this subject, it would be a lifetime ban in a second.
Ken
Ken
June 15th, 2012 at 11:19:25 AM
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Quote: QuadDeucesDon't worry. I somehow think you won't be suspended for vehemently defending the liberal point of view on any particular subject.
Keep saying that.
Quote:The ADVANTAGE conferred is in being more "fit" as in survival of the "fittest" and being more capable of reproduction.
Suppose your body could not get rid of iron well enough. You'd be priviledged by nature to endure a short, painful life. So why does sucha condition eprsist? Because women benefit from such a condition, which allows them to retain iron even after menstruation.
As I said, this is basic genetics. A gene X may affect a person A adversely and make it impossible for that eprson to procreate. But the same gene X may confer an advantage on a person B, making it easier or more likley for that person to procreate. It's very simple, and I fail to see why you cannot grasp the point.
And thsi si under the assumption that there is one cause for homosexuality and that it's genetic. Research indicates there may be several genes involved in some cases, and there may be other causes in some other cases, such as environmental influences in the developing fetus. No amount of eugenics will ever do away with non-genetic causes for congenital conditions.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
June 15th, 2012 at 11:22:24 AM
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Quote: QuadDeucesIf it's a choice, then it's a medical issue, like drug addiction.
So that's your agenda, right? You're desperate to have it be a choice, and you're willing to warp genetics on its head to do so.
Unfortunately for you, people aren't so easily misled.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
June 15th, 2012 at 11:38:12 AM
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Genes are not simple and there is not a one-to-one gene-to-behaviour link.
This neither proves or disproves homosexuality is genetic.
I'd also note that Darwin's original Theory of Evolution was superseded by the Modern Evolutionary Synthesis, which incorporates various other theories and science about evolution, correcting and revising Darwin. I'd further note, evolution is NOT survival of the fittest. It's survival of the fit enough.
IF homosexuality is purely genetic (*) then it's likely to come from a wide combination of genes, all of which individually may be increase the fitness (to reproduction) of a human, but in combination, reduce the likelihood to propagate (homosexuality, for instance). While the combination itself there fore becomes less likely to propagate, the individual genes can continue.
But as I repeatedly stated, it's a false dichotomy to say it's EITHER a choice or a Born that way thing, and leads to some conclusions that are... misguided based on a false axiom.
This neither proves or disproves homosexuality is genetic.
I'd also note that Darwin's original Theory of Evolution was superseded by the Modern Evolutionary Synthesis, which incorporates various other theories and science about evolution, correcting and revising Darwin. I'd further note, evolution is NOT survival of the fittest. It's survival of the fit enough.
IF homosexuality is purely genetic (*) then it's likely to come from a wide combination of genes, all of which individually may be increase the fitness (to reproduction) of a human, but in combination, reduce the likelihood to propagate (homosexuality, for instance). While the combination itself there fore becomes less likely to propagate, the individual genes can continue.
But as I repeatedly stated, it's a false dichotomy to say it's EITHER a choice or a Born that way thing, and leads to some conclusions that are... misguided based on a false axiom.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
June 15th, 2012 at 11:53:58 AM
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Quote: NareedSo that's your agenda, right? You're desperate to have it be a choice, and you're willing to warp genetics on its head to do so.
Unfortunately for you, people aren't so easily misled.
I don't really give a fig what they do.
They just shouldn't try to obtain status as some protected political class in order to coerce acceptance - through the force of government - of their deviant sexual behavior.
(Edited to change language from second person to third person)
June 15th, 2012 at 11:59:06 AM
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This is particularly true in a society that does not condemn such activities. As women age they are more likely to be financially free to follow desires.
Many women keep their love life and their sex life separated.
Genes may heavily influence but epigenetic dna seems to play a major role too.
Many women keep their love life and their sex life separated.
Genes may heavily influence but epigenetic dna seems to play a major role too.
June 15th, 2012 at 12:03:21 PM
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delete
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
June 15th, 2012 at 12:06:59 PM
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Quote: QuadDeucesI don't really give a fig what you do.
Just don't try to obtain status as some protected political class in order to coerce acceptance - through the force of government - of your deviant sexual behavior.
Wizard, are such slurs agasint forum rules?
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
June 15th, 2012 at 12:07:47 PM
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Quote: rxwineDick Cheney's daughter made a choice to be a lesbian?
Yes. Unless she was forced at gunpoint or something she is choosing her partners.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
June 15th, 2012 at 12:13:49 PM
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Quote: WizardPosts about global warming have been moved to Climate Change -- conspiracy theory or is it time we all drive a Prius?.
Giving me a error message, wiz.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
June 15th, 2012 at 12:18:56 PM
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you can just look up the thread in the recent threads list.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
June 15th, 2012 at 12:34:31 PM
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Quote: AZDuffmanYes. Unless she was forced at gunpoint or something she is choosing her partners.
I'm glad you can look into her head and KNOW this to be true.
But yeah, you are right, she's is probably choosing her partners from the people she finds attractive... which happen to be women. Just like you choose your partners to be people you are attracted to... which happens to be women as well (I presume at least from your previous statements).
I hope all those sexual deviants around here who 'choose' (*) not to have children are aware of their evolutionary failings.
(for some value of choice).
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
June 15th, 2012 at 12:55:17 PM
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Quote: thecesspitIF homosexuality is purely genetic (*) then it's likely to come from a wide combination of genes, all of which individually may be increase the fitness (to reproduction) of a human, but in combination, reduce the likelihood to propagate (homosexuality, for instance). While the combination itself there fore becomes less likely to propagate, the individual genes can continue.
I won't claim it to be THE reason, but there is one possible explanation.
Sexual orientation is a mechanism used to avoid wasting time and energy on non-conceptive mating. It is not critical to species survival - a species where everyone mates with everyone will still produce offspring - but it helps. Especially species with mate selection.
This mechanism is not foolproof. Imagine if some females in your tribe were identifiable as males. Then one day all other females are gone (by accident or by someone's actions). If 100% of your members have sexual orientation, you die out. But if just 1% has their orientation broken, that 1% can do the job.
This does little to explain inverse orientation (exclusive homosexuality) rather than no orientation (omnisexuality), as the latter seems preferable, working so-so in both cases. But it may have something to do with the details of implementation.
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June 15th, 2012 at 1:44:33 PM
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Quote: NareedWizard, are such slurs agasint forum rules?
Really? Doesn't the phrase "deviant behavior" just mean behavior outside of social norms? I've participated in lots of that!
I could be wrong though, I don't seem to have the education a lot of you have.
Stupid is a choice
June 15th, 2012 at 1:46:14 PM
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so any sex other than heterosexual missionary position is off-limits then?
wow, i am sure nobody will ever get bored of THAT lifestyle choice.
wow, i am sure nobody will ever get bored of THAT lifestyle choice.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
June 15th, 2012 at 2:18:00 PM
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Quote: WongBoso any sex other than heterosexual missionary position is off-limits then?
Nice straw man.
I'd expect that doggie-style came first and missionary is the perverted behavior.
June 15th, 2012 at 2:21:54 PM
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delete
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
June 15th, 2012 at 2:23:54 PM
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Quote: WongBoso any sex other than heterosexual missionary position is off-limits then?
I find interracial sex a lot more repulsive than gay sex.*
You should add that to your list too.
(*s.)
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June 15th, 2012 at 2:24:01 PM
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Quote: texasplumrReally?
Really. When did I advocate government coercion?
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
June 15th, 2012 at 2:25:13 PM
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Quote: P90I find interracial sex a lot more repulsive than gay sex.*
You should add that to your list too.
(*s.)
i can only assume from this post that you have tried them both, many times,
and have finally reached this conclusion.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
June 15th, 2012 at 2:28:07 PM
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Quote: WongBoi can only assume from this post that you have tried them both, many times,
and have finally reached this conclusion.
How can you say that, and what business would it be of yours? Two consenting human beings should be free to do anything they want, have sex with whoever they want, in whatever ways, with full expectation of privacy, as long as they aren't of different races!
P.S.
"s."="suppose", just for the sake of the argument.
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June 15th, 2012 at 2:30:03 PM
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Quote: NareedReally. When did I advocate government coercion?
You solicited the application of force from the "government" of this forum to quell opinions you dislike.
June 15th, 2012 at 2:30:09 PM
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well, the way the internet works is,
person A says something that makes them seem....
and then person B mocks them.
person A says something that makes them seem....
and then person B mocks them.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
June 15th, 2012 at 2:31:32 PM
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Quote: QuadDeucesYou solicited the application of force from the "government" of this forum to quell opinions you dislike.
gee that sort of sounds like what happens when one political party
wants to amend a constitution to quell opinions it dislikes, doesn't it?
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
June 15th, 2012 at 2:40:17 PM
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Quote: WongBogee that sort of sounds like what happens when one political party
wants to amend a constitution to quell opinions it dislikes, doesn't it?
Nice red herring.
June 15th, 2012 at 2:42:00 PM
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Quote: QuadDeucesYou solicited the application of force from the "government" of this forum to quell opinions you dislike.
There is no government on this site. The Wizard and admins cannot apply force in any way, and I'm sure they woudn't if they could.
And in what twisted world does it make sense that someone would complain of being accused to favor government coercion, and then ask to apply government coercion? What do you think I am, a conservative? I resent the implication.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
June 15th, 2012 at 2:42:30 PM
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Quote: WongBogee that sort of sounds like what happens when one political party
wants to amend a constitution to quell opinions it dislikes, doesn't it?
Who proposed the ammendment to ban flag-burning?
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
June 15th, 2012 at 2:56:58 PM
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Quote: NareedWho proposed the ammendment to ban flag-burning?
Doesn't much matter because I oppose that perversion of government force too.
June 15th, 2012 at 10:01:09 PM
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Quote: thecesspit
I hope all those sexual deviants around here who 'choose' (*) not to have children are aware of their evolutionary failings.
(for some value of choice).
Well, I choose not to have children. And I do not care if anyone cares one way or the other. I do not take any responsibility for "evoloutionary failings." It is a pure lifestyle choice.
Now, see how easy that is? While we are genetically predisposed to want to reproduce, I have chosen not to. But I am not saying, "I was born that way, I ahve no choice." I am not demanding the government change the dedfinition of "children" such that I can adopt a dog and demand the child-tax-credit because nobody ever wrote in law that your child has to be human, some people prefer a dog to a human-right? I am not demanding to "stop being treated like a second clas citizen." And I am not making a fool of myself in some "child-free-pride parade."
Perhaps if the gays on the board would take a similar attitude their life would be happier? Quit demanding we destroy the institution of marrige. Quit demanding acceptance. And quit blaming your "choice" on some unproven idea of "being born that way." Don't supprot the parades with people making jerks out of themselves at the parades with the aforementioned flowers planted in their tail ends, etc.
If you just live your life quietly not demanding acceptance at every turn, might you be happier?
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
June 15th, 2012 at 10:18:06 PM
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wow, for a guy who alleges to be heterosexual, you sure are OBSESSED with homosexuality.
i am not convinced that you are not a typical homophobe,
unable to cope with your homosexual desire, externalizing your self-loathing.
i know hundreds of gay guys who don't think about gays as much as you do.
as far as happiness goes, i am quite happy.
handsome and masculine, in great shape, perfect health.
great job, family, friends, sex, and love.
i do not care about your acceptance,
but i will demand equal protection under the law.
i don't really care about your religious beliefs, or your comfort with it.
you and people like you are desperately trying to maintain a status quo
that most sensible and fair-minded people reject.
like the neanderthal, you are being surpassed by a more highly evolved being.
i am not convinced that you are not a typical homophobe,
unable to cope with your homosexual desire, externalizing your self-loathing.
i know hundreds of gay guys who don't think about gays as much as you do.
as far as happiness goes, i am quite happy.
handsome and masculine, in great shape, perfect health.
great job, family, friends, sex, and love.
i do not care about your acceptance,
but i will demand equal protection under the law.
i don't really care about your religious beliefs, or your comfort with it.
you and people like you are desperately trying to maintain a status quo
that most sensible and fair-minded people reject.
like the neanderthal, you are being surpassed by a more highly evolved being.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
