will resort fees ever go away?

Suppose McDonald's instituted a 75 cent "Warming Fee" for all of their hot food and a 75 cent "Cooling Fee" for all of their cold items. (Except sometimes it's 75 cents other times it's 85 cents, it varies from McDonald's to McDonald's, depending on how nice the restaurant decor is.) Every item you order has the 75 cents tacked on to it, but the fee is never listed among the menu prices. To prevent lawsuits, McDonald's posts the fees on a small sign in each restaurant, but the location of the sign varies from restaurant to restaurant. Most of McDonalds' customers find the fee annoying, (some customers are even outraged) but few customers permanently boycott McDonald's. Eventually Taco Bell and Wendy's also start charging "Warming Fees" but Burger King and Subway don't. In fact Burger King even advertises that they don't charge "Warming Fees."

I think "resort fees" are awful. The issue isn't greed or dishonesty... the issue is sneakiness. Luxor ($18 resort fee), Mirage ($25) Excalibur ($15) and Monte Carlo ($20) are all owned by the same company, but the fee varies from property to property. The fees are indeed listed on their websites, but you have to do some digging, they aren't posted prominently. Sneaky fees leave a bad taste in the mouth, and give the gaming industry a bad image.

A policy which pisses off half your customers is bad customer service. Good customer service means keeping it simple: one price + tax. Not two prices + tax, (with one price in bold and the other price in fine print). Supposedly capitalism punishes businesses which provide bad customer service, because the competition (Caesars) will lure away the customers who give a damn. But capitalism isn't always perfectly efficient, and for a variety of reasons people tolerate poor customer service. (I tolerated Vdara's "resort fee" because I booked an enormous suite for an insanely cheap rate on busy Super Bowl weekend. But I'd have more respect for Vdara if they charge an extra $20 per night and eliminate the resort fee.)

Arguably, airline baggage fees are a similar sneaky fee, although at least these can be avoided for folks with the ability to travel light. (Depending upon your travel circumstances, that might be impossible.) I read recently a quote from a Southwest Airlines executive who said he was delighted that his competitors charged baggage fees, because it gives Southwest a marketing angle to brag that they don't. In other words, all the airlines benefit from baggage fees, even the airlines that don't charge them.

But "resort fees" do have an achilles heel: what if a hotel on the Las Vegas Strip advertises rooms for $1 per night? And then in the fine print the "resort fee" is listed as $100 per night. If that ever happens, every hotel would charge $1 per night (Circus Circus would proudly charge 1 cent) and Expedia/Travelocity will be obliged to list the resort fees more prominently than the room fees.

Do "resort fees" violate any laws? Can anything be done to get rid of them? Is there anyone on this forum who would care to defend "resort fees"?

Resort fees are the same as 6/5 blackjack.

I don't pay resort fees and I don't play 6/5 blackjack.

If everyone was like me, they would both disappear within days!

Do they violate any laws? I highly doubt it. What has happened is that businesses lost pricing power sometime in the 1990s. Not just Vegas. In the 1970s there was wild inflation, not totally killed until the late 1980s. If inflation is 10% people expect an incerease. Everything is going up. But in addition to disinflation, some other things seem to have happened.

One, the internet and made price shopping easy. Years ago you had to call and call. To check even 5 places could take half an hour or more. Now a few clicks and you can see most of the Strip Properties all side by side. Same with airlines. And not just Vegas, but anywhere. People will indeed choose another property for a small difference. Caesars and Bellagio are both high-end and right next door to each other. Unless you want to use the pool or gym (gym? ha, ha, ha-ha-ha) at one more than the other you probably care little about which you stay at. So there is pressure on price, so you make it up in a sneaky way.

Next, prices invarriably drift towards psycologically important levels. People might tolerate a bump from $130 to $145 but at $150 they say, "WTF? Used to be $99!" So they "put it out for bid" and see Flamingo is $50 a night cheaper and figure why not stay in a clean room across the street since "you are never in the room anyways!"

Sadly, I think fees of all kinds are here to stay. Sooner or later some sharp operators will advertise "real" prices. Some tire shops already do well advertising "out the door" prices to sharps like myself who know how many legit charges there are to drive off with tires. So if the owner of TI was smart he would do a "NO RESORT FEES--EVER!" campaign. Some people will check it out because they like such pricing.

Quote: reno

But capitalism isn't always perfectly efficient, and for a variety of reasons people tolerate poor customer service.

If resorts fees and prices per night were the extent of what people look for in a hotel, you'd seen them gone in days. But there are other considerations, particularly in Vegas qhere the hotel is associated with a casino and your play.

What I don't understand is why some high end proeprties don't raise their room prioces, eliminate the resort fee and then brag "FREE Wi-fi in every room!"

Quote:

Do "resort fees" violate any laws?

No.

Quote:

Can anything be done to get rid of them?

Maybe. But it would take years and a great deal of time and money.

Quote: DanMahowny

Resort fees are the same as 6/5 blackjack.

I don't pay resort fees and I don't play 6/5 blackjack.

If everyone was like me, they would both disappear within days!

These fees will not go away as long as people pay them. Remember all the protests about 6/5 BJ ? Even the Motley Fool ran an article about the greedy casino owners and how this would fail.

Now the only complainant about 6/5 is players complaining about the wait to get a seat on weekends.

They are sheep, born to be sheared.

Resort fees let a hotel get their rooms in on the first page of a computer search.
There is also an accounting wrinkle in that a Room Charge is taxable at somewhere around ten or eleven percent whereas a Resort Fee is a miscellaneous fee subject to different taxation laws.

Do people like them? NO!! Will they go away? Probably not.

One hotel DID give away One Dollar A Night rooms via Twitter .... and still charged six dollars as a Resort Fee. Still... at seven bucks for a room it was a bargain anyway! Some men booked them as DUI rooms. The Sleep It Off room rate saved them a DUI.

They are not easy to avoid. If you want to stay at a higher end property all of them seem to charge the fee. It is very similar to airline baggage fees. People do a web search and buy the flight at the top (lowest price.) They don't figure out the total price including fees until checkin time.

There is an ongoing trend in many industries to make pricing more and more complicated so it is difficult or impossible for shoppers to compare. Cell phones, cable and satellite TV, Internet, banking and car rental are other examples I have noticed.

My wife and I agree with you Dan ................ no resort fees and definately no 6/5

I believe they will eventually be legislated out, just as airline fees have been.

Quote: FinsRule

I believe they will eventually be legislated out, just as airline fees have been.

I hope so. I 'need' (really just want) internet on my laptop via Wi-Fi when I travel. Although I don't pay a 'resort fee' at the Rio, They charge about $13 a day or so for internet. To me it is really just a mini resort fee. I usually accumulate about $15 a day in comps so it sort of turns out to be 'free'. All the inexpensive hotels I stay at while travelling have free Wi-Fi now.
I am a 'one price' kind of guy. Tell me what the final price is, and I'll pay it. Don't try and fool me or you will lose my business. When possible, I stay at hotels without resort fees, and use airlines (usually Southwest) without baggage fees.

Quote: SOOPOO

I hope so. I 'need' (really just want) internet on my laptop via Wi-Fi when I travel. Although I don't pay a 'resort fee' at the Rio, They charge about $13 a day or so for internet. To me it is really just a mini resort fee. I usually accumulate about $15 a day in comps so it sort of turns out to be 'free'. All the inexpensive hotels I stay at while travelling have free Wi-Fi now.

That kind of stuff cracks me up. Motel-6 will give you free wi-fi. Starbucks will give you free wi-fi and usually has some plugs you can use. Holiday Inn will let you use at least a modest gym free. At least a small "hot" breakfast plus continental is virtually a requirement for any business oriented hotel. Yet at the fanciest places all of this is extra cost.

It is like if every Ford had A/C as standard equipment but it was extra-cost on Cadillacs.

Quote: AZDuffman

It is like if every Ford had A/C as standard equipment but it was extra-cost on Cadillacs.

Supposedly the A/C quality is different but to continue your analogy you would have to Ordinary Joe's buying Fords but Expense Account types buying Cadillacs.

Or maybe its just the expensive hotels have all the MBAs who know how to milk customers whereas the cheaper places don't have MBAs or accountants to parcel out various charges.

I forget what business I was entering the other day but I saw a sign on the next door neighbor Free WiFi and noticed it was basically a donut shop. If a donut shop can manage free wifi, so can a major hotel. And don't think that any donut shop is charging a resort fee to cover the free wifi. Most of their customers never use it anyway.

Thats why the Tuscany situation is better. Free Internet in common areas and exhibition centers, Cox 14.00 a day Internet in your room. If you want ultra reliability and long usage, you have to pay a room charge/resort fee. If you just want to send and receive a few emails and messages, you get it free.

Quote: FleaStiff

I forget what business I was entering the other day but I saw a sign on the next door neighbor Free WiFi and noticed it was basically a donut shop. If a donut shop can manage free wifi, so can a major hotel. And don't think that any donut shop is charging a resort fee to cover the free wifi. Most of their customers never use it anyway.

IIRC a few years back many places like the donut shop tried wi-fi fees. You had to pay a fee for some amount of time. Later many seemed to have found that people will come for the free wi-fi. Some have problems with squatters, but most do not. Smart places seem to like the activity the free wi-fi use brings, driving sales.

Quote:

Thats why the Tuscany situation is better. Free Internet in common areas and exhibition centers, Cox 14.00 a day Internet in your room. If you want ultra reliability and long usage, you have to pay a room charge/resort fee. If you just want to send and receive a few emails and messages, you get it free.

That is still a rip-off rate. I don't know if there is much marginal cost, but again if Motel-6 can do it free Tuscany should be able to. If the highway interchange in Amarillo has such a competitive marketplace to drive free wi-fi, how can the Strip not?

Quote: AZDuffman

That is still a rip-off rate. I don't know if there is much marginal cost, but again if Motel-6 can do it free Tuscany should be able to. If the highway interchange in Amarillo has such a competitive marketplace to drive free wi-fi, how can the Strip not?

Internet access charges were one of my biggest gripes about the hotels in Vegas. They're charging $15 a day for something that probably costs them less than 5¢ a day.

If you're paying a resort fee, you shouldn't have to pay an internet access fee on top of it. As someone else mentioned, if they just included the damn resort and/or internet fees in the room rate to begin with, with the only thing added on at the end being the tax, people would be a lot happier than they are when they realize they fell for a (perfectly legal) bait-and-switch scam.

I encountered something similar last night: I went to purchase a software product and as soon as I clicked the Checkout button, the total was $10 higher than the price of the product. Can you guess what the extra $10 was for? Something called "Download Insurance". Seriously! Fortunately I was able to remove it and pay the price that was advertised.

Quote: JB

Internet access charges were one of my biggest gripes about the hotels in Vegas. They're charging $15 a day for something that probably costs them less than 5¢ a day.

If you're paying a resort fee, you shouldn't have to pay an internet access fee on top of it. As someone else mentioned, if they just included the damn resort and/or internet fees in the room rate to begin with, with the only thing added on at the end being the tax, people would be a lot happier than they are when they realize they fell for a (perfectly legal) bait-and-switch scam.

I encountered something similar last night: I went to purchase a software product and as soon as I clicked the Checkout button, the total was $10 higher than the price of the product. Can you guess what the extra $10 was for? Something called "Download Insurance". Seriously! Fortunately I was able to remove it and pay the price that was advertised.

You know what else is a rip-off? Draft Beer! They charge $5-$8 a glass for draft beer and it only costs them 25 cents!

Quote: cadillacjack

You know what else is a rip-off? Draft Beer! They charge $5-$8 a glass for draft beer and it only costs them 25 cents!

Remember the Five Cents a Beer riots?

Quote: cadillacjack

You know what else is a rip-off? Draft Beer! They charge $5-$8 a glass for draft beer and it only costs them 25 cents!

If you want cheap beer you can get it at a store and bring it to your hotel room to drink.

You can't bring internet access with you to your hotel room*; you have no choice but to pay their extortionary rate if you want access.

*You might have 3G or 4G service on your phone but that doesn't exactly compare.

Something forgotten in the OP, is that you have the ability to go online, and purchase your McDonald's meal at a lower price than if you bought it at the store. Thus, you purchase your meal online for $2 less, but then get charged the 75 cent warming fee at the counter. In total, you've saved yourself $1.25, but I suppose you can still be upset about the 75 cent fee.

One of the "extra fees" that I hate is gas stations that allow you to use a debit card, for an extra fee. There is no option to use a credit card, because merchant contracts forbid the charging of an extra fee to use credit. No such language in a contract applies toward debit cards.

vegas casinos are selling addictive products to thier customers who are addicts. They will find any way possible to suck another buck out of thier addicted customer, because we all know in most cases an addict always comes back regardless. Even if the price goes up.

Quote:

You know what else is a rip-off? Draft Beer! They charge $5-$8 a glass for draft beer and it only costs them 25 cents!

Hmm. Waitresses are always willing to bring me a beer in exchange for a $1 tip. And I think the tip is optional.

All MGM-owned resorts include in-room wireless access in their resort fee (which ranges from 8.99 at Circus Circus to I believe 27.00 for Aria, making Circus Circus the best deal :) )

Hotels will charge fees in as much as the law allows them to. It's absolutely deceptive not to include resort fees when doing a search on a travel website or even on their own website if the charge is mandatory. But taxation laws allow them to charge the resort fee and not pay the hotel tax, so as long as the hotel can legally do that, expect them to do so.

Regulation of course is the answer.

Quote: AZDuffman

Sadly, I think fees of all kinds are here to stay. Sooner or later some sharp operators will advertise "real" prices. Some tire shops already do well advertising "out the door" prices to sharps like myself who know how many legit charges there are to drive off with tires. So if the owner of TI was smart he would do a "NO RESORT FEES--EVER!" campaign. Some people will check it out because they like such pricing.

Caesars already does this. They proudly pronounce they don't charge the Resort Fees, but as others have pointed out, they get you, both by charging for ALL the extras, and their gaming at the casinos is wretched in most cases. So I'm not sure what you guys all want... you want something for nothing, which this day in age just doesn't happen.

As to JB's comment about 4G wireless, I have the mobile hotspot as an addition on my phone (for less than 15 a month) and to me, that's more than worth it. I like having the capability of accessing the internet wherever I am. SOMETIMES, it's not reliable, but for the most part, if I need to get on, I'm able. I highly recommend it. In Vegas last year, I didn't pay a lick for internet charges and never noticed any connectivity issues.

Quote: boymimbo

Regulation of course is the answer.

I see you are an Obama supporter :)

Seriously, Nevada hotels do have to pay tax on the resort fee as well as the base rate. Whether the hotel passes this charge on to the customer is a function of what hotel chain it is. Stations does charge the customer tax on the fee. I can't remember if MGM does (I thinks so). Somebody is paying that tax, either you or the hotel. If not, they are breaking the law.

The last word(?) on resort fees.

Quote: Tiltpoul

So I'm not sure what you guys all want... you want something for nothing, which this day in age just doesn't happen.

I disagree. I haven't paid for a room in Vegas since my first trip out there, and can't remember the last time I paid for a meal. My gambling losses sure don't cover that.

Quote: SOOPOO

I 'need' (really just want) internet on my laptop via Wi-Fi when I travel. Although I don't pay a 'resort fee' at the Rio, They charge about $13 a day or so for internet. To me it is really just a mini resort fee.

I agree that $13 is obscenely overpriced, but I'm not offended by it for the same reason I'm not offended by $8 Budweisers in the in-room mini-bar or $12 Budweisers from room service. Room service is always outrageously overpriced because you're paying for convenience. If you're too lazy to go to the hotel restaurant downstairs, don't complain about paying an arm & a leg for the convenience of room service. You could seek out free Wi-Fi at a Starbucks down the street, but if you want the convenience of surfing the web from your hotel room, you're going to be asked to pay for that convenience. (By the way, is it a shock that Wi-Fi is free at Motel 6 and Super 8, but it's not free at Ceasars' Palace?)

But my real point is that Bellagio's $25 daily resort fee is mandatory, and Rio's $13 Wi-Fi fee is optional.

Something for nothing?

Quote: teddys

I disagree. I haven't paid for a room in Vegas since my first trip out there, and can't remember the last time I paid for a meal. My gambling losses sure don't cover that.

Hmmm, your chosen casinos are even comping the tips? They're very unusual if they do that.

Anyway, since almost every casino is cash flow positive, somebody's subsidizing someone else down the line. In other words, the informed gamblers, professionals, and lucky stiffs are subsidized by:

* The whales,
* The degenerates,
* The uninformed gamblers, and
* The unlucky stiffs

As long as millions of people are willing to shell out an annual fee for the privelage of shopping at Costco and other 'club stores' I don't see the casinos ending the resort fees for the privelage of using their hotel. It has always amazed me that everyone accepts the Costco fee and they have been able to keep charging it and even raising the fee. I have never had a Costco card and refuse to purchase one on principle.

We will see how it works out for them but Allegiant Air has just instituted a carry-on baggage fee of $20 for the overhead bin, more if you don't pre-purchase it. Still get the space under the seat for free.

I hate fees "tacked on" to a list price. If it's options and choices, fine. But don't tell me a hotel is $85 if it's actually $100. Don't tell me a flight is $99 if it's $375 if you add the fuel surcharge, airport landing fees, booking fee, convenience fee (grr....) and other fees. Same with concert tickets.

I don't mind wi-fi being $12 in a room. I have a choice, and can choose "No". I can't choose to not pay the resort fee and pass on free water, gym access and newspaper. I can't choose not to pay my share of the airport landing fee. So it's part of the base price and should be in there. I don't mind if a company wants to tell me how they came to the eventual price. Good for them. The worse piece is when they say "Taxes and Fees" as if they can cover it all under government taxes, when only some of it is.

I'd think at some point one or more of the listing services will do something to like advertise the final price, which might be enough of a differentiation to increase traffic to them, which means everyone follows suit, and the industry goes back to a final sticker price model.

Quote: Tiltpoul

So I'm not sure what you guys all want... you want something for nothing, which this day in age just doesn't happen.

What I want is realistic advertising of price before I choose to stay at a place. To me free wi-fi is a bit like free TV. Years ago Motel-6 would make you put quarters in the TV to watch. Some motels didn't have TVs. But in my time (since the 1970s) this is unacceptable, to have a TV in the room is required in all but the most fleabag of joints. What with internet access being free in cheaper places it just seems crazy to charge at a 4 and5-star hotel. And it absolutely would factor in my choice of if I want to stay somewhere or not. Charging for wi-fi just says "cheap management."

Quote:

As to JB's comment about 4G wireless, I have the mobile hotspot as an addition on my phone (for less than 15 a month) and to me, that's more than worth it. I like having the capability of accessing the internet wherever I am. SOMETIMES, it's not reliable, but for the most part, if I need to get on, I'm able. I highly recommend it. In Vegas last year, I didn't pay a lick for internet charges and never noticed any connectivity issues.

When I was abstracting we had what they called "air cards." You got reception most anywhere, but the speed could leave something to be desired. If you are doing high-bandwidth activities or just transferring files, try the wi-fi and compare.

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Quote: AZDuffman

Charging for wi-fi just says "cheap management."

I'd suggest they continue to charge for it as it's a profit centre for them, and if it continues to be profitable to do so, they will (and -should-) continue to charge for it. The duty of the hotel company is to make money for their shareholders, after all, and how much profit they make is not your concern (smiley face). You either pay for the service or not.

I don't think this is a an area (fees or wi-fi charges) that should be regulated or laws made, apart from making sure there's no false advertising going. Resort fees that aren't disclosed until arrival would be pretty damn close to false advertising, if you ask me.

Quote: thecesspit

I'd suggest they continue to charge for it as it's a profit centre for them, and if it continues to be profitable to do so, they will (and -should-) continue to charge for it. The duty of the hotel company is to make money for their shareholders, after all, and how much profit they make is not your concern (smiley face). You either pay for the service or not.

I don't think this is a an area (fees or wi-fi charges) that should be regulated or laws made, apart from making sure there's no false advertising going. Resort fees that aren't disclosed until arrival would be pretty damn close to false advertising, if you ask me.

I agree here. And if more people are like me the shareholders will be POed as I take my business to a non-casino hotel nearby who offers a clean room and wi-fi at a lower price.

Same with baggage fees and all the other nonsense "fees" out there. I will shop for the better provider or/and substitute products and services.

"Hey, boss, the wi-fi made us a profit of $200 yesterday!"
"Yes, but your charging for it drove 5 guests to some other property, costing us $600!"

Different market for different folks. People staying at the Paris, Venetian, Wynn, Bellagio, or anywhere else on the strip for that matter are there for the resort experience, not for the casino gambling. You're there to swim in the pool, gawk at the babes at their sluttiest on the weekend nights, to see the idiots play craps in their robes, visualize the fountains, volcanos, and roller coasters, and to have some culinary experiences at some great restaurants, all while feeling safe. Finding a 10/7 DB machine or a 3:2 double deck blackjack game is tertiary to the entire experience. Heck if you want good, cheap, gaming conditions with lots of options and cheap hotel rooms, go to Reno.

You can't get good conditions in any of the Caesars properties. If you want to gamble in Vegas and play for an advantage, the strip is not for you anyway. You're better off anywhere else, including downtown, Red Rock, South Point, the boulder strip, etc.

I don't like being nickeled and dimed out of parking and resort fees either. But it happens. You just gotta calculate all of the charges up front, and factor it all together at payment time. Take into account that a semi-regular player at MGM properties will likely get their resort fees comped for decent action at their properties, which you would never get at Caesars. Caesars will nickel and dime you for internet access, parking, and whatever else they can. It's just a different business model. And getting comped at Caesar properties for in-room charges is much more difficult than at the other properties along the strip.

Every business sells addictive products. Casinos are no different that any other business.

I think they should be illegal.
They are not optional, and not always advertised in advance.
If they were optional, how many people do you think would pay them for the advantages? 1% less?
Where does it end?

"Stay at our casino, the room is free and we even give you $100 every night you stay"*
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-
-
-
-
*A resort fee of $200 a night is payable and not optional, $100 incentive is in the form of match play vouchers

As has been eloquently stated before by others, it will only stop when it has a negative expectation on revenues !

Quote: reno

I think "resort fees" are awful. The issue isn't greed or dishonesty... the issue is sneakiness.

I think there has to be an entire course at business school called "Sneakiness 101". How about advertising a room as $100 per night per person and in the footnote you write (based on double person occupancy $100 surcharge for single lodging). There is no law that says you have to simply say the room is $200 per night (surcharge for third person).

There are literally thousands of instances like this. The resort fee is standard practice in many countries.

I think sneakiness is with us forever. I imagine it will only get worse.

Very soon, in the name of reducing carbon footprint, there will be individual electricity meters in your hotel room. You will pay a surcharge depending on how cool (or hot) you like your hotel room.

Here's a question then, would you pay $400 a night if they gave you $400 in matchplay coupons for use on even money bets only, and you dont get the coupon back regardless of win or loss?

I'd do it for $400 in VP credit.

Quote: pacomartin

I think there has to be an entire course at business school called "Sneakiness 101".

Of course there is. But it's called "Marketing 101"

Quote: Nareed

Quote: pacomartin

I think there has to be an entire course at business school called "Sneakiness 101".

Of course there is. But it's called "Marketing 101"

That's what makes it so sneaky.

Quote: reno

Can anything be done to get rid of them?

If I won the lottery, I would fight it with my money.

I think I would reimburse people that stayed at other hotels - up to point - but they had to show proof that they first made reservations at the place with resort fees, then called and cancelled because of the resort fee, and told them where they were staying instead.

Not sure if it would work, but I would LOVE to do it...to have some hotels get inundated with cancellation after cancellation.

I would place advertisements in front of their hotels - maybe pay people to hand out flyers in front of their hotels.

Oh the good I would do with my lottery money....

Quote: slackyhacky

If I won the lottery, I would fight it with my money.

I think I would reimburse people that stayed at other hotels - up to point - but they had to show proof that they first made reservations at the place with resort fees, then called and cancelled because of the resort fee, and told them where they were staying instead.

Not sure if would work, but I would LOVE to do it...to have some hotels get inundated with cancellation after cancellation.

I would place advertisements in front of their hotels - maybe pay people to hand out flyers in front of their hotels.

Oh the good I would do with my lottery money....

In fact, I bet I could get sponsership from hotels that didn't charge resort fees.