Poll

9 votes (30%)
2 votes (6.66%)
1 vote (3.33%)
8 votes (26.66%)
No votes (0%)
No votes (0%)
10 votes (33.33%)

30 members have voted

clarkacal
clarkacal
  • Threads: 42
  • Posts: 401
Joined: Sep 22, 2010
January 22nd, 2011 at 10:30:51 AM permalink
What do you think is the biggest ripoff out there, meaning the least return for your investment? I'm sure I'm missing some big ones so please vote for the biggest one listed and reply with your actual big ripoff. I lumped the gov. and casinos together because when you walk in a casino in many ways the two are similar.
P90
P90
  • Threads: 12
  • Posts: 1703
Joined: Jan 8, 2011
January 22nd, 2011 at 10:35:20 AM permalink
It's hard to pick any... overtaxation (when you put all the taxes together, it's about half!) is an enormous ripoff, 6:5 and minibars small-scale but particularly egregious ones.

Health insurance is both enormous and particularly egregious, and just in case you decide not to take it, they charge you triple for paying cash; and the whole system is enabled and closed to competition by government regulation. It's not corporations' fault, because they are by design money-making machines without free will, but regulation's for not allowing alternate systems to exist, and Obamacare is only further enabling it by pumping more money into a corrupt system.

In the end, you can opt out of 6:5 by not playing, and sometimes out of minibars, not so much with commie taxes.
Resist ANFO Boston PRISM Stormfront IRA Freedom CIA Obama
clarkacal
clarkacal
  • Threads: 42
  • Posts: 401
Joined: Sep 22, 2010
January 22nd, 2011 at 10:51:18 AM permalink
Quote: P90

It's hard to pick any... overtaxation (when you put all the taxes together, it's about half!) is an enormous ripoff, 6:5 and minibars small-scale but particularly egregious ones.

Health insurance is both enormous and particularly egregious, and just in case you decide not to take it, they charge you triple for paying cash; and the whole system is enabled and closed to competition by government regulation. It's not corporations' fault, because they are by design money-making machines without free will, but regulation's for not allowing alternate systems to exist, and Obamacare is only further enabling it by pumping more money into a corrupt system.

In the end, you can opt out of 6:5 by not playing, and sometimes out of minibars, not so much with commie taxes.



Great reply P90!
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
  • Threads: 265
  • Posts: 14484
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
January 22nd, 2011 at 11:25:11 AM permalink
Quote: clarkacal

What do you think is the biggest ripoff out there, meaning the least return for your investment?

If you want to know which is the biggest rip-off look to see who has the deepest pockets and most clout to perpetuate the rip-off. A casino could drop its blackjack if it really wanted to and could offer any payout from 1:1 to 3:2 ... and half the players wouldn't know or care the difference anyway. A casino could fight back against anyone who tried to force them to do something about 6:5. The casino has some muscle and political clout and darn good advertising and lobbying budget, but its pennies compared to what the real rip-off artists have.
Asswhoopermcdaddy
Asswhoopermcdaddy
  • Threads: 87
  • Posts: 566
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
January 22nd, 2011 at 12:11:10 PM permalink
Quote: clarkacal

What do you think is the biggest ripoff out there, meaning the least return for your investment? I'm sure I'm missing some big ones so please vote for the biggest one listed and reply with your actual big ripoff. I lumped the gov. and casinos together because when you walk in a casino in many ways the two are similar.



This is a great topic. I wish you would have listed religion up there. You donate money and hope you get saved in the end. All religions are based on faith, and few can claim true fact usually correlated with historical events of which none of us were around to witness and see for ourselves.

However, since its not listed up there, I will vote for resort fees because you get very little out of it. What exactly is a resort fee suppose to cover? I still get charged to use the pool, internet, and now its an expectation to leave a tip for house-keeping. My room rate should be all-inclusive.

As far as everything else, I don't like taxes but hey we need to balance societal needs. Social security, medicare, etc. And with respect to the minibar, fewer hotels have these. But when they do, it's an alternative to going outside. Sometimes you might just want to stay in and have your snack instead. I've broken maybe once or twice and had some water and chips. But that's because every other store out there was closed.
mkl654321
mkl654321
  • Threads: 65
  • Posts: 3412
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
January 22nd, 2011 at 12:30:27 PM permalink
I would definitely NOT include gambling in this category, because one, the cost of gambling is easily quantifiable, two, the transaction is completely voluntary, and three, there are tremendous bargains available if you know where to look. I might include mandatory insurance of any kind, though--a forced bad bet.

My candidate for biggest ripoff would have to be gasoline prices. The price of gasoline has absolutely nothing to do with its cost--which you would expect in a tightly controlled, monopolistic market (or, strictly speaking, one controlled by a cartel). The killer here is that, aside from the fact that every world government is in the oil companies' pocket, the oligarchs control EVERY STEP of the process--down to and including controlling the distribution and retail outlets. So they can fiddle with the prices as much as they want, and there's no countervailing forces to ameliorate that (such as the forces of supply and demand that would control prices in a fair market). Note that in the midst of a long, painful, worldwide recession, the oil companies are still not only profitable, but the most profitable companies in history. All for lack of competition.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
  • Threads: 240
  • Posts: 13886
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
January 22nd, 2011 at 12:52:42 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

My candidate for biggest ripoff would have to be gasoline prices. The price of gasoline has absolutely nothing to do with its cost--which you would expect in a tightly controlled, monopolistic market (or, strictly speaking, one controlled by a cartel). The killer here is that, aside from the fact that every world government is in the oil companies' pocket, the oligarchs control EVERY STEP of the process--down to and including controlling the distribution and retail outlets. So they can fiddle with the prices as much as they want, and there's no countervailing forces to ameliorate that (such as the forces of supply and demand that would control prices in a fair market). Note that in the midst of a long, painful, worldwide recession, the oil companies are still not only profitable, but the most profitable companies in history. All for lack of competition.




What are you talking about here? Oil and gasoline can and are bought on spot-markets all the time. Spot-markets are as close to perfect competition as we can get. Standardized product in frades of oil and gasoline. No one forcing anyone to buy or sell anything. Look at the cost on the spot-market and then add in the taxes plus a little for profit and you get a pump price.

You seem to fall into the trap the a price of something is supposed to be based on its cost and not the demand for it.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
SFB
SFB
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 203
Joined: Dec 20, 2010
January 22nd, 2011 at 1:16:55 PM permalink
AZ:

It costs anywhere from $13 to $20 a barrel to get oil out of the ground. No matter if you are drilling in the sands of the Middle East or the Gulf.

Production costs are not in way way shape or form the control factor in worldwide pricing.

When OPEC says the rate is $80, then the world market is $80. Period. The market rate itself, can go up, if production is cut, or if a Cartel member decides to ship more than its "alloted" quota. So market forces are in play. But if OPEC says our base price is now $90, then the world price adjusts. It is not a perfect market.

The Spot-markets are just that. Spot. You need it, you pay that rate, the spot market is generally all the excess product out there not covered by longer term contracts.

SFB
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
  • Threads: 240
  • Posts: 13886
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
January 22nd, 2011 at 1:31:14 PM permalink
Quote: SFB

AZ:

It costs anywhere from $13 to $20 a barrel to get oil out of the ground. No matter if you are drilling in the sands of the Middle East or the Gulf.

Production costs are not in way way shape or form the control factor in worldwide pricing.

When OPEC says the rate is $80, then the world market is $80. Period. The market rate itself, can go up, if production is cut, or if a Cartel member decides to ship more than its "alloted" quota. So market forces are in play. But if OPEC says our base price is now $90, then the world price adjusts. It is not a perfect market.

The Spot-markets are just that. Spot. You need it, you pay that rate, the spot market is generally all the excess product out there not covered by longer term contracts.

SFB



Again, since when is cost of production the determinant of final price? If OPEC says the price is $200 but there is supply at $90 the $90 will get sold. DEMAND is wnat sets price for oil or any other product. It was like when I worked with this guy who was upset gas was then almost $4 and "that wasn't what it cost the gas station owner to buy it." I replied, "Doesn't matter, that is what they want, you don't want it, walk." My point being demand sets the price, not what someone else paid for the product.

This is the same argument liberals make saying they want a "public option" because insurance companies somehow "make too much profit." And it is incorrect there as much as it is here for oil prices.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
P90
P90
  • Threads: 12
  • Posts: 1703
Joined: Jan 8, 2011
January 22nd, 2011 at 1:38:34 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

This is the same argument liberals make saying they want a "public option" because insurance companies somehow "make too much profit." And it is incorrect there as much as it is here for oil prices.


It is perfectly correct there, except the solution is not a public option, but deregulation. Let there be hospitals that can hire people with non-US system medical training and employ them as they see fit; let there be non-FDA drugs, let the people can choose if they only want drugs that have been exhaustively tested for 10 years, or prefer to take the risk when it's called for, let there be whole alternate systems. Much like flying abroad for your treatment - minus the flying part which entails additional costs, is stressful or even dangerous for a weakened person, and can involve logistical nightmares.

In case of oil, there's Canada and Alaska, so it's hard to see how OPEC would be to blame. If CA and AK are not enough, then perhaps oil might indeed be a scarce commodity.
Resist ANFO Boston PRISM Stormfront IRA Freedom CIA Obama
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
  • Threads: 207
  • Posts: 10992
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
January 22nd, 2011 at 2:08:39 PM permalink
I was on the fence between Mini-Bar and Resort Fees. However, since I normally stay at Harrah'sCaesars properties, and they don't have the fees, I voted for Mini-Bar.

HOWEVER, if it was there, I would have voted for Airline Luggage Fees!
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
  • Threads: 121
  • Posts: 10942
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
January 22nd, 2011 at 2:15:24 PM permalink
Easy one for me. BOTTLED WATER
Toes14
Toes14
  • Threads: 18
  • Posts: 455
Joined: May 6, 2010
January 22nd, 2011 at 2:25:14 PM permalink
I voted for social security/medicare simply because I've been paying into it for 30 years and will likely never get anything out of it. No one I know has ever used any of it (aside from my parents who are barely over medicare age & are healthy), or benefited from it. I'm reasonably sure that it will run out of money before I can get any benefits from it, so it's basically a huge drain on my wallet.

At least for taxes, I can see some benefits, like road construction,police & fire protection, education for my kids, etc.

I do agree about the bottle water & resort fees though!
"Bite my Glorious Golden Ass!" - Bender Bending Rodriguez
P90
P90
  • Threads: 12
  • Posts: 1703
Joined: Jan 8, 2011
January 22nd, 2011 at 2:31:24 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

HOWEVER, if it was there, I would have voted for Airline Luggage Fees!


Never felt them. I almost always travel with just carry-on - it's always enough for all reasonable needs, you just need to learn how to optimize your bag. Only take luggage on the return trip from more exotic destinations, if I decide to stock up on something that can only be bought there, but never on domestic.

And, if anything, airlines are right to charge these fees, because planes have limited capacity and consume more fuel the heavier they are loaded. If I ran an airline, I'd even consider charging a fare of B+k*M, where B is baseline and M the total mass one is adding to the plane.
//though probably wouldn't for PR reasons, of course.
Resist ANFO Boston PRISM Stormfront IRA Freedom CIA Obama
Nareed
Nareed
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
January 22nd, 2011 at 2:54:34 PM permalink
Social Security and medicare are the worst rip-off because:

1) the money's not used for the purposes intended
2) it's compulsory to pay into the system
3) you may or may not see a return on such payments. But even if you do, it will be a paltry fraction of the return you could ahve had if you'd invested in almost anything else.

As far as resort fees, 6:5, mini-bars and such, you can chose hotels that don't charge resort fees, visit casinos that offer real BJ, and buy snacks from any of a myriad stores rather than the mini-bar.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
rxwine
rxwine
  • Threads: 209
  • Posts: 12166
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
January 22nd, 2011 at 3:18:27 PM permalink
I'm going to say the drug war.

Because we both provide the source of funds for drugs and fight it at the same time

We pay law enforement and even the military to fight it.
We fund crime syndicates.
We help corrupt government of other countries with it.
We fund terrorism with drug buys while also fighting it (in Afghanistan, for instance)
We suffer the effects of drug related crimes on top of everything else.

I don't know if full legalization is the exact answer, but the whole thing seems boneheaded as it is right now. And yet, I'm pretty sure, I and many others have been saying something different needs to be done for decades which makes it even stupider.

by we fund it, I mean the American consumer.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
Wavy70
Wavy70
  • Threads: 15
  • Posts: 907
Joined: Nov 3, 2009
January 22nd, 2011 at 3:35:56 PM permalink
Quote: Toes14

I voted for social security/medicare simply because I've been paying into it for 30 years and will likely never get anything out of it. No one I know has ever used any of it (aside from my parents who are barely over medicare age & are healthy), or benefited from it. I'm reasonably sure that it will run out of money before I can get any benefits from it, so it's basically a huge drain on my wallet.

At least for taxes, I can see some benefits, like road construction,police & fire protection, education for my kids, etc.

I do agree about the bottle water & resort fees though!



Toes you have been working for 30 years and you don't know anyone over 65 aside from your parents?
I have a bewitched egg that I use to play VP with and I have net over 900k with it.
clarkacal
clarkacal
  • Threads: 42
  • Posts: 401
Joined: Sep 22, 2010
January 22nd, 2011 at 4:25:38 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Social Security and medicare are the worst rip-off because:

1) the money's not used for the purposes intended
2) it's compulsory to pay into the system
3) you may or may not see a return on such payments. But even if you do, it will be a paltry fraction of the return you could ahve had if you'd invested in almost anything else.


This is all right on but I would like to add another thing that really bugs me about it: The original premise behind it is basically "We the government do not believe you are capable of saving properly in order to take care of yourself later on. If once you are old enough to recollect a portion of this and you are still making any type of a living you must pay more taxes on it."
Nareed
Nareed
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
January 22nd, 2011 at 4:48:19 PM permalink
Quote: clarkacal

This is all right on but I would like to add another thing that really bugs me about it: The original premise behind it is basically "We the government do not believe you are capable of saving properly in order to take care of yourself later on. If once you are old enough to recollect a portion of this and you are still making any type of a living you must pay more taxes on it."



True. But that's also implicit in most government programs and regulations, with the exceptions being mostly the justice system and the military. The govenrment seems to think there are two kinds of people: suckers and blood-suckers. Therefore the Nanny State laws like bans on certain foods, warning labels (think about it), and all sorts of financial and labor regulations that pile huge burdens on small businesses, among many other things.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
P90
P90
  • Threads: 12
  • Posts: 1703
Joined: Jan 8, 2011
January 22nd, 2011 at 5:13:53 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Therefore the Nanny State laws like bans on certain foods, warning labels (think about it)


A little known fact: The expiration date label is not enforced. It is in fact completely voluntary, and not regulated in any way. Manufacturers started adding it on their own, when they found out that customers much prefer goods that have that label.
(an article on this)

A notable example of self-regulation being implemented by the industry with no government intervention. It's worth to mention as well that the labeled expiration dates are almost always extremely conservative, accounting for worst expected conditions, and are between 10% and 30% of the actual shelf life if stored as prescribed on the label.

It's far from the only example of self-regulation, or, more precisely in this instance, customer-regulation. While it might not be a great idea to eliminate FDA overnight, the fact is that if there was never any FDA, we would have either self-regulation or independent organizations doing what it does, cheaper and with better customer choice. In the latter case, like with "best before", customers would simply avoid buying products not certified by their preferred organization.

All the government would need to do is check that the certifications are not counterfeited. Even that doesn't exactly require government intervention, since organizations could easily (and much more efficiently) make their own checks, and even enforcement not only can be performed privately, but has been done so for over a century in US. All that really requires government is the judicial role, i.e. making court orders authorizing such actions when necessary.
Resist ANFO Boston PRISM Stormfront IRA Freedom CIA Obama
mkl654321
mkl654321
  • Threads: 65
  • Posts: 3412
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
January 22nd, 2011 at 5:37:11 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

What are you talking about here? Oil and gasoline can and are bought on spot-markets all the time. Spot-markets are as close to perfect competition as we can get. Standardized product in frades of oil and gasoline. No one forcing anyone to buy or sell anything. Look at the cost on the spot-market and then add in the taxes plus a little for profit and you get a pump price.

You seem to fall into the trap the a price of something is supposed to be based on its cost and not the demand for it.



It's supposed to be derived from three things, actually: cost of the product to the suppliers, demand for the product, and supply of the product. The supply is artificially controlled. The demand is highly inelastic (when they last gouged us to the tune of $4.50 a gallon, demand dropped all of 4%). The cost is a very small percentage of the retail price, meaning there's a huge markup. All these things contribute to the RETAIL market for gasoline not resembling a free market in any way.

The spot market is a wholesale market, so it doesn't apply to what I was saying. I have no doubt that the market at that level is not a ripoff. But neither you nor I are going to be buying 10,000,000 gallons on the spot market anytime soon.

If you have some ideological bent that prevents you from seeing this as anything but a monopoly market, fine--but the fact of the matter is that we, the consumer, get hosed every day by the oil companies. And as individuals, we are utterly powerless to affect that market.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
rxwine
rxwine
  • Threads: 209
  • Posts: 12166
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
January 22nd, 2011 at 7:01:44 PM permalink
Quote: P90

A notable example of self-regulation being implemented by the industry with no government intervention.



Do you believe self-regulating is working for online gambling?
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
teddys
teddys
  • Threads: 150
  • Posts: 5527
Joined: Nov 14, 2009
January 22nd, 2011 at 7:11:22 PM permalink
College and post-graduate textbook prices! This is the worst gouge in the history of mankind!

Private college tuition is pretty overpriced too. Rip-off though? Probably not.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
clarkacal
clarkacal
  • Threads: 42
  • Posts: 401
Joined: Sep 22, 2010
January 22nd, 2011 at 7:15:28 PM permalink
Quote: teddys

College and post-graduate textbook prices! This is the worst gouge in the history of mankind!

Private college tuition is pretty overpriced too. Rip-off though? Probably not.



Good call! It's like $.75 per page now justified by some cheesy software that comes with it for the class.
SanchoPanza
SanchoPanza
  • Threads: 34
  • Posts: 3502
Joined: May 10, 2010
January 22nd, 2011 at 7:25:51 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

The killer here is that, aside from the fact that every world government is in the oil companies' pocket, the oligarchs control EVERY STEP of the process--down to and including controlling the distribution and retail outlets.


That is egregiously wrong. To think that a company like Exxon dictates anything to a leader like Hugo Chavez is a preposterous distortion of the realities.
Nareed
Nareed
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
January 22nd, 2011 at 7:41:06 PM permalink
Quote: teddys

College and post-graduate textbook prices! This is the worst gouge in the history of mankind!



I used to buy college books from the people who were done with them, as teachers often assigned the same books for years. The school library even served as an exchange for this. Usually the price was 50% less than a new book.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
EvenBob
EvenBob
  • Threads: 441
  • Posts: 28576
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
January 22nd, 2011 at 8:17:41 PM permalink
Starbucks coffee. Anybody who buys this overpriced swill needs to have their head examined.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Croupier
Croupier
  • Threads: 58
  • Posts: 1258
Joined: Nov 15, 2009
January 22nd, 2011 at 8:46:00 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Starbucks coffee. Anybody who buys this overpriced swill needs to have their head examined.



Yeah, Maybe. But where else am I going to get my Iced Caramel Frappachino, Coffee base (with Cream)?
[This space is intentionally left blank]
EvenBob
EvenBob
  • Threads: 441
  • Posts: 28576
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
January 22nd, 2011 at 9:31:57 PM permalink
Quote: Croupier

Yeah, Maybe. But where else am I going to get my Iced Caramel Frappachino, Coffee base (with Cream)?



McDonalds and Dunkin Donuts have great coffee and cheap too. Good enough for me.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
zippyboy
zippyboy
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 1124
Joined: Jan 19, 2011
January 22nd, 2011 at 9:40:33 PM permalink
Quote: teddys

Private college tuition is pretty overpriced too. Rip-off though? Probably not.


If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.

I'd say the biggest scam going throughout the history of mankind is organized religion. An idea conceived by men in charge centuries ago to keep the uneducated masses in line. Oh, and by the way, pay us one tenth your income or a faceless man in the sky will punish you for all eternity. We promise. And if you don't believe us, well, take your chances.

"Poker sure is an easy game to beat if you have the roll to keep rebuying."
P90
P90
  • Threads: 12
  • Posts: 1703
Joined: Jan 8, 2011
January 22nd, 2011 at 9:57:35 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Do you believe self-regulating is working for online gambling?


It is beginning to. There are a few online casinos known to play fair. While most of the "make-your-own-ripoff" sites have disappeared.

Some industries are less likely to self-regulate - casinos, for instance, due to both the nature of their business and their history of being run by the mob. But even there, authorities like NGC share some properties with self-regulation bodies. NGC wasn't created out of worry for your wallet, it has been created to advance industry's goals, and still doesn't hide having little concern for players.

Since gambling, from lotteries to real and online casinos, attracts among other people a considerable number of suckers, ripoff sites and sucker games aren't going to disappear. But the rest of the gambling public that is a bit more educated can make a push for self-regulation. Perhaps not easily, but seeing how proper games still exist in B&M, and how some onlines are coming to senses with near-zero edges, there certainly is demand, and it certainly is creating supply.
Resist ANFO Boston PRISM Stormfront IRA Freedom CIA Obama
mkl654321
mkl654321
  • Threads: 65
  • Posts: 3412
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
January 22nd, 2011 at 11:12:07 PM permalink
Quote: SanchoPanza

That is egregiously wrong. To think that a company like Exxon dictates anything to a leader like Hugo Chavez is a preposterous distortion of the realities.



MAYBE. But even if that's so, he's the exception that proves the rule. But note that he can't keep the social programs that keep him in power going unless he sells his country's oil. And the price he gets for that oil is determined by the oil companies, not him. His government nearly collapsed when oil prices dived a year or so ago.

So I would imagine that despite all his bluster, he's kissy kissy with the oil companies, because otherwise, he's history.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
DeMango
DeMango
  • Threads: 36
  • Posts: 2958
Joined: Feb 2, 2010
January 23rd, 2011 at 5:02:58 AM permalink
Hatred of GBLT ers is now verboten. But hatred of Christians is alive and well here on the Wizards site. Wrong is right and right is wrong.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
teddys
teddys
  • Threads: 150
  • Posts: 5527
Joined: Nov 14, 2009
January 23rd, 2011 at 5:45:26 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I used to buy college books from the people who were done with them, as teachers often assigned the same books for years. The school library even served as an exchange for this. Usually the price was 50% less than a new book.

This is the way it should be done. You think post-graduate students would be smart enough to figure this out. But they seem to enjoy paying $170 for a new book every time.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
teddys
teddys
  • Threads: 150
  • Posts: 5527
Joined: Nov 14, 2009
January 23rd, 2011 at 5:50:58 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Starbucks coffee. Anybody who buys this overpriced swill needs to have their head examined.

Definitely their milk-based drinks. But their coffee, at $1.50 for a 12-oz., is pretty reasonable and in fact less than Dunkin Donuts and Tim Hortons and Biggby's (and better quality too). I also like the McDonald's Premium Roast.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
boymimbo
boymimbo
  • Threads: 17
  • Posts: 5994
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
January 23rd, 2011 at 6:37:25 AM permalink
I voted for the mini-bar in the room, as you can go out and buy everything at the local Walgreens/gas station/7-11 for about 1/4 of the price.

6:5 blackjack doesn't cost you 75 percent.

Health insurance is valuable if you use it, but the way it's structured in the United States (to raise rates when it's used for catastrophic injury) is a ripoff. I can see higher rates for people who truly make lives risky for themselves (smoker, the obese, the dare-devils), but not for something out of their control (non-lung cancer, brain tumors). And the government will be terribly inefficient at administering it. However, given that every other westernized country has some form of government health insurance, the ineffective administration by government is outweighed by being able to control the costs by telling the providers how much they are going to get paid.

Social security is not bad at all and you will receive money from it. It's a decent way to force Americans to save, because I think that if most Americans had their choice, they wouldn't. At the present, for sitting on your duff your entire life, you are eligible for a federal check for $674 a month for SSI for doing nothing and getting free medicare. At least if you work your entire life, at this point in time, you are eligible for a benefit of $2300 a month or so.

And for those people who talk about religion being a rip-off, it is your choice to go to church and donate. Anyone who is a member of a church knows that your monetary donation to the church supports the church and its programs, not God himself. You are welcome to "believe" and go to most churches/synagogues/mosques/religious institution even if you contribute nothing financially to it. In Canada, churches are charities, meaning that your donations are an income tax credit. Churches do alot of good with donations, such as send people to impoverished countries to help people and feeding the needy. They are a valuable community institution, god notwithstanding. There is value, great value, I believe, in believing that one's life has a higher purpose. It's not like you donate to the church, and the pastor/reverend/priest/religious figure is walking away with a bigger paycheck. The money usually goes into upkeep of the church and its programs (most of which are volunteer) which inevitably help the community.

Finally, for coffee, Starbucks prices for COFFEE are competitive with everyone else's. I would rather pay $2.00 for a cup of Starbuck's Joe than $1.90 for the swill in Dunkin' Donuts. America gets the runs on Dunkin'.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
  • Threads: 240
  • Posts: 13886
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
January 23rd, 2011 at 6:39:02 AM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

It's supposed to be derived from three things, actually: cost of the product to the suppliers, demand for the product, and supply of the product. The supply is artificially controlled. The demand is highly inelastic (when they last gouged us to the tune of $4.50 a gallon, demand dropped all of 4%). The cost is a very small percentage of the retail price, meaning there's a huge markup. All these things contribute to the RETAIL market for gasoline not resembling a free market in any way.



Uh, no. Cost to the suppliers will not have a bearing on the market price, just the supply of product at a given price. In the case of oil supply changes very slowly. That is because to drill a well and get oil flowing is very difficult. To shut down a field when prices drop is also very expensive and difficult. Then if prices rise again it is very expensive and difficult to get it flowing yet again. So for in 1985 when the price fell from $30 to $13 little production was shut down in the short term. In the 1970s when the price rocketed from $3 to $10 it took years to ger AK fields pumping and flowing. In other words, supply and demand are both very inelastic.

But that only talks about supply. We are talking about price. If I have a producing oil well at a cost to me of $15bbl I am not going to say, "Well, my cost is $15bbl so after a fair markup I will sell at $25bbl to be fair to everyone." And if we had a crash like in the late 1990s my customers are not going to say, "Hey, buddy, I'll still pay you $25 even though the spot price is $10 because your cost is $15bbl." What happens is I say, "How much will you pay me?" Then a price is agreed upon. If you get POed at paying $80 my answer will be, "Well, friend, get your drill and find some oil if you think it is so easy. Name a price because there are 5 other people in line to bid after you!"


Quote:

If you have some ideological bent that prevents you from seeing this as anything but a monopoly market, fine--but the fact of the matter is that we, the consumer, get hosed every day by the oil companies. And as individuals, we are utterly powerless to affect that market.



Monopoly? No way. The market has consolodated a great deal since the 1970s, but given the number of suppliers no one company can control it alone. Even Saudi Arabia needs the cooperation of other producing countries. As individuals we cannot affect ANY market, not sure why that has you upset.

And, BTW, no one ever bought a gallon of gasoline they did not want.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
dm
dm
  • Threads: 14
  • Posts: 699
Joined: Apr 29, 2010
January 23rd, 2011 at 8:01:54 AM permalink
I would have voted for FOREIGN AID if given the chance. Just one of the many stops on the politicians' ego trips.
mkl654321
mkl654321
  • Threads: 65
  • Posts: 3412
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
January 23rd, 2011 at 9:59:09 AM permalink
Quote: teddys

This is the way it should be done. You think post-graduate students would be smart enough to figure this out. But they seem to enjoy paying $170 for a new book every time.



The textbook publishers have figured out how to get around this one long ago. They simply change a few words, rearrange a few pages, and voila! the new Eighth Edition. And of course, Editions One through Seven are now worthless. The page rearrangement helps with that, of course--you can't use a textbook if the professor's pagination doesn't agree with yours. Then after the term is over, you take your used edition to the bookstore to sell--and they give you $4 for it, cause the new Ninth Edition just came out.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
mkl654321
mkl654321
  • Threads: 65
  • Posts: 3412
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
January 23rd, 2011 at 10:02:10 AM permalink
Quote: DeMango

Hatred of GBLT ers is now verboten. But hatred of Christians is alive and well here on the Wizards site. Wrong is right and right is wrong.



There's a difference between "hatred of Christians" and "dislike for religion". It's quite possible to oppose an ideology without opposing the people who hold it.

The current view is that GLBTs aren't the way they are by choice. So reviling them because of what they are is kind of like reviling left-handed people (or, if you prefer, deaf or blind people).
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
clarkacal
clarkacal
  • Threads: 42
  • Posts: 401
Joined: Sep 22, 2010
January 23rd, 2011 at 10:08:41 AM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

Social security is not bad at all and you will receive money from it. It's a decent way to force Americans to save,

I'm speechless

AZDuffman
AZDuffman
  • Threads: 240
  • Posts: 13886
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
January 23rd, 2011 at 10:27:43 AM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

The textbook publishers have figured out how to get around this one long ago. They simply change a few words, rearrange a few pages, and voila! the new Eighth Edition. And of course, Editions One through Seven are now worthless. The page rearrangement helps with that, of course--you can't use a textbook if the professor's pagination doesn't agree with yours. Then after the term is over, you take your used edition to the bookstore to sell--and they give you $4 for it, cause the new Ninth Edition just came out.



It is "planned obselesance" and Detroit figured it out 60+ years ago. The schools are no better. I had a business stats class, needed the book to study for finals. Prof told us in fall they were getting a new text. Everyone was upset because no re-buy. He said they would rebuy for summer classes. HA. When I finished the final I RAN, not walked, to the bookstore to sell it back. Got some quarters as change and played pinball with them. Somneone else from class walks in and gtries to sell, they said they had their quote. I was the last one!

Still a ripoff.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
boymimbo
boymimbo
  • Threads: 17
  • Posts: 5994
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
January 23rd, 2011 at 12:02:36 PM permalink
I worked with a University professor who was the author of a major sociology textbook. She spent a year updating the edition. It was much more than changing a few words here and there and having a few updates. It was new chapters, new sections, removing old sections, etc. She was going from 3rd to 4th edition. Whether the update was necessary or not I am not sure but it's a good way to support authors too.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
teddys
teddys
  • Threads: 150
  • Posts: 5527
Joined: Nov 14, 2009
January 23rd, 2011 at 5:45:22 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

The textbook publishers have figured out how to get around this one long ago. They simply change a few words, rearrange a few pages, and voila! the new Eighth Edition. And of course, Editions One through Seven are now worthless. The page rearrangement helps with that, of course--you can't use a textbook if the professor's pagination doesn't agree with yours. Then after the term is over, you take your used edition to the bookstore to sell--and they give you $4 for it, cause the new Ninth Edition just came out.

This is all true. They really don't change much from edition to edition. I usually buy the old editions ($5-$10, or sometimes free) and just redo the pagination to agree with the new edition. Takes about 30 minutes, and I save $100s. The new swindle are these softcover "supplements" that they put out every year now. Costs $25-$30 for a cheap paperback piece of crap, and yet the professors assign from it and you can't find it in libraries (they don't bother buying yearly supplements). I now require these for every class.

Boymimbo, I think the authors get very little in textbook royalties. A professor who wrote a textbook for our class always complained about the "dozens of cents" he was getting for every book sold.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
Calder
Calder
  • Threads: 5
  • Posts: 534
Joined: Mar 26, 2010
January 23rd, 2011 at 5:53:39 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

There's a difference between "hatred of Christians" and "dislike for religion". It's quite possible to oppose an ideology without opposing the people who hold it.

The current view is that GLBTs aren't the way they are by choice. So reviling them because of what they are is kind of like reviling left-handed people (or, if you prefer, deaf or blind people).


I bet you're a good dancer.
mkl654321
mkl654321
  • Threads: 65
  • Posts: 3412
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
January 23rd, 2011 at 6:30:44 PM permalink
Quote: Calder

I bet you're a good dancer.



I'm sure that meant something.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
Calder
Calder
  • Threads: 5
  • Posts: 534
Joined: Mar 26, 2010
January 23rd, 2011 at 6:49:27 PM permalink
Sorry. It just seems that you have a calm, rational distaste for Christianity that I don't see expressed for Islam or Buddhism. May just be that the demographic of the religious folks that post here skews Christian, I suppose.

Quote: mkl654321

The current view is that GLBTs...


Do your views on subjects depend on what the "current view" is?
mkl654321
mkl654321
  • Threads: 65
  • Posts: 3412
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
January 23rd, 2011 at 7:06:03 PM permalink
Quote: Calder

Sorry. It just seems that you have a calm, rational distaste for Christianity that I don't see expressed for Islam or Buddhism. May just be that the demographic of the religious folks that post here skews Christian, I suppose.


Do your views on subjects depend on what the "current view" is?



Not really. In fact, I suscribe to what I call my "Law of Inverse Beliefs", which says that the likelihood of a belief being correct is in inverse proportion to the percentage of the population that holds that belief. So what the herd thinks is irrelevant to me.

Your inference is correct--I have the same distaste for Islam, Christianity, and all other deist religions. The reason why you might sense my antipathy toward Christianity a bit more is that there aren't very many Muslim, etc. posters on this board. I don't view Buddhism in the same light, by the way--it's more a lifestyle and a philosophy than a deist religion.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
Calder
Calder
  • Threads: 5
  • Posts: 534
Joined: Mar 26, 2010
January 23rd, 2011 at 7:17:58 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

In fact, I suscribe to what I call my "Law of Inverse Beliefs", which says that the likelihood of a belief being correct is in inverse proportion to the percentage of the population that holds that belief. So what the herd thinks is irrelevant to me.


The basis of your beliefs is simply contrarian?
mkl654321
mkl654321
  • Threads: 65
  • Posts: 3412
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
January 23rd, 2011 at 7:22:24 PM permalink
Quote: Calder

The basis of your beliefs is simply contrarian?



Not simply so--but given that human beings are fundamentally irrational, and more importantly, unaware that they are irrational, makes the likelihood that widely held beliefs are correct ipso facto very small.

Not to beat on religion in particular, but the polls that ask the question, "Do you believe in God?", and consistently return percentages in the high 90s, illustrate what I'm talking about.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
  • Jump to: