My (feared to be) lifelong gripe...

Being greeted by the phrase "so, how much'd you lose?" Usually said by people with smug grins on their faces who have no concept of odds or EV, can't tell Texas Hold'em from a dice game, secretly wonder when you're going to sell your first born to finance your losses, and yet buy into government run lotteries with 40% HA week after week after week. Their collective responses are the same depending on your response:

"Lost a little"
"Don't lose your house trying to chase the money back! BE VERY CAREFUL!!!!"

"Won a little (say $100)"
"OOPS YOU FORGOT TO FACTOR IN THE $5000 YOU LOST BEFORE FINALLY WINNING A HAND LOL!"

"It was great I hit a straight flush and got paid a couple thousand"
"THAT'S NICE, SO IT WILL ACTUALLY TAKE TWO, MAYBE THREE WEEKS BEFORE YOU GIVE IT ALL BACK??"

The thing is these are usually people close to you, you're not likely going to block them out over a hobby, and explaining EV to them only makes you look like an addict (from their view), so instead you're stuck listening to this verbal diarrhea for life. Anyone else share this pain?

I completely agree with you. I get this kind of replies all the time and many people even seem to wish that I go completely broke playing.

I almost posted something exactly like this yesterday, but I just decided it wasn't going to do any good. Glad you posted it though.

Gambling has a very strange stigma attached to it. I think it's because most of the time whenever people hear about gambling it's horrible stories about the percent of the population who can't handle themselves and end up doing stupid things like gambling away the mortgage payments or whatever.

My roommate recently did something similar; I was out late earlier this week at a bar with some friends. I come back, and he's all like "Out late gambling, I assume?" No, dude. I was having drinks with friends. Stop being so patronizing.

Either way no almost no one I know sees gambling as a form of entertainment; they all see it as a sign of weakness. The ones who do agree that it can be just another hobby are gamblers themselves ;-)

Some time ago, I had a live-in girlfriend, for a long enough period of time that we had actually set up a household, shared finances, bought furniture together, etc. etc. I used to play poker on Friday nights, against a bunch of people who generally couldn't play their way out of a paper bag. I won far more often than not, but occasionally I would bust out, as in, lose my session loss limit of $100, and go home. At such times I always got an earful of how dissolute and irresponsible I had been for pissing away my (as in, our) hard-earned money (since I only earned $200 a week at the time). I averaged about a $75 win per session, though, so I rarely heard this crap from her. One evening I came home and told her I had busted out again. She went ballistic, and used the fact that I had busted out (lost $100) the week before as an excuse for an extended, shrill diatribe on what a fool I was to gamble away my money every week, didn't I know any better, blah blah blah. I then took the $800 that I had actually won, tossed it on the bed, and went to sleep on the couch.

Later, I ate her liver with some fava beans and a nice Chianti.

Quote: gog

Being greeted by the phrase "so, how much'd you lose?"

Last trip I called my parents a couple of days in and mentioned I was ahead. My mom told me "Don't give it back to them!" I think she meant well.

I sumarized my first Vegas trip thus: "I saw many fo the sights, I went to Hoover Dam, I played a little, saw Penn & Teller, did a little shopping, had a good time and about $200 left. So the way I see it, I won."

Take it FWIW.

Quote: gog

Being greeted by the phrase "so, how much'd you lose?" Usually said by people with smug grins on their faces who have no concept of odds or EV, can't tell Texas Hold'em from a dice game, secretly wonder when you're going to sell your first born to finance your losses, and yet buy into government run lotteries with 40% HA week after week after week. Their collective responses are the same depending on your response:

"Lost a little"
"Don't lose your house trying to chase the money back! BE VERY CAREFUL!!!!"

"Won a little (say $100)"
"OOPS YOU FORGOT TO FACTOR IN THE $5000 YOU LOST BEFORE FINALLY WINNING A HAND LOL!"

"It was great I hit a straight flush and got paid a couple thousand"
"THAT'S NICE, SO IT WILL ACTUALLY TAKE TWO, MAYBE THREE WEEKS BEFORE YOU GIVE IT ALL BACK??"

The thing is these are usually people close to you, you're not likely going to block them out over a hobby, and explaining EV to them only makes you look like an addict (from their view), so instead you're stuck listening to this verbal diarrhea for life. Anyone else share this pain?

Since these folks are close to you, maybe you should interpret their comments as loving concern, rather than nagging. Gambling is addictive. It is powerful, and can quickly move from "entertainment" to "life ruining". If you can look at your pattern of play and money management, see that you have stayed within your limits, and are not negatively effecting you or those who depend on you; then I think it would be okay to let them know that you appreciate their concern, but that you don't appreciate their comments. Describe what steps you take to make sure it stays a fun diversion, and let them know that they are welcome to participate too.

If you have not stayed within your limits, and your losses are having negative effects, it would be a good idea to take a step back and honestly consider the possibility that you need accountability, or perhaps even professional help. I don't know you, and I hope that this is not the case with you or anyone on this board, but unfortunately, we have all seen many individuals who are in over their heads in our visits to various gaming establishments.

The solution is simple: lie to them. Every time they ask you how you did just say 'really really well'. Believe me, this works like a charm and they will stop asking very quickly. I'm serious, it really does work.

Always remember the old guy at the racetrack who always took a wad of money and put it in his shoe before he made his first bet. One of his friends asked if that was for luck or something and he replied, No, its what I give my wife from my winnings.
As long as he was able to give his wife 'his winnings' she never objected.

Quote: gog

The thing is these are usually people close to you, you're not likely going to block them out over a hobby, and explaining EV to them only makes you look like an addict (from their view), so instead you're stuck listening to this verbal diarrhea for life. Anyone else share this pain?

I disagree. In my experience, explaining your expected loss to someone tends to help. Depending on the intelligence of the person I'm talking to I'll go into different levels of depth - but in general I'll tell them it's cheaper than going to a football game or even a nice dinner. This usually ends with them mumbling something and I never hear about it from them again.

My uncle is on the level of genius. He's a lawyer, been on Jeopardy, Who Wants to be a Millionaire and a few other shows like that. Last year at the pre-game party for the championship football game (long story) they had a mock casino and I was playing craps. I tried to explain the concept of "free odds" to him and he just couldn't grasp the fact that there is a bet with no house edge, even after I told him you're required to make a "bad bet" to have the rights to it. It really is funny how things like this can be built into people and they're not willing to listen.

A couple years ago I had a small win on a sports ticket (something like $40 on a $10 bet) so I told my ex that I was treating her to lunch, courtesy of Bayern Munich. She gave me a nasty look but I thought whatever, went outside to fix something and when I came back in, the ticket was gone, she had thrown it away. After some initial freaking out I tried to explain that the games were played yesterday, it's a done deal, that the ticket was good as cash. She replied that gambling is bad. After repeatedly asking why she would throw away CASH, she explained that I probably spent $200 dollars to win that 40, therefore she was actually saving me money by throwing it away (however that works). btw i swear that's not how the 'ex' title came about.

To ayecarumba i see your point and its a good mindset to have, but you got to be looking really hard to feel their love amongst the BS. The very first form of gambling I took was online poker, at the time I wasn't sure about how much it would end up costing and about my own skill level, so i decided to start at $.02/.05 stakes. 5 cents a big blind. Same sh*t, people asking me if loan sharks are still into setting your house on fire these days.

Quote: Ayecarumba

Since these folks are close to you, maybe you should interpret their comments as loving concern, rather than nagging. Gambling is addictive. It is powerful, and can quickly move from "entertainment" to "life ruining".

Thea way gog tells it, these people seem to be mocking him rather than expressing concern. In the case of a hobby it's annoying. In the case of a gambling problem it's cruel.

Quote: Nareed

Thea way gog tells it, these people seem to be mocking him rather than expressing concern.

I have a friend who goes to Vegas 4-5 times a year. He always tells people who ask that he won enough to pay for his trip and $1000 on top of that. He's says nobody has asked him for years now, that was his intent. People hate good news. People always ask me 'did you win?' People I know, people in the elevator, people in line at the buffet. I always say 'Of course!'. It shuts them up every time.

Quote: gog

To ayecarumba i see your point and its a good mindset to have, but you got to be looking really hard to feel their love amongst the BS. The very first form of gambling I took was online poker, at the time I wasn't sure about how much it would end up costing and about my own skill level, so i decided to start at $.02/.05 stakes. 5 cents a big blind. Same sh*t, people asking me if loan sharks are still into setting your house on fire these days.

I like ahiromu's advice to put the "cost" of your play into terms others can relate to "dinner, a movie, etc." As for those with opinions that mattter to you, but dismiss your interest in gaming as "bad", there is not much you can do. You can't make them change their minds, however, it might help your relationship with them if you see their criticism as concern for your well being, rather than trying to tear you down no matter what you are doing.

As for those who advocate lying... I can understand the desire to stop the questioning/criticism, but I think it's better practice to shine a light than curse the darkness. Lying about your actual performance could lead to credibility problems, or even pressure to overbet in hopes of making good on elevated expectations. The truth does not require a defense.

Quote: Ayecarumba

Lying about your actual performance could lead to credibility problems,

Considering its nobodies business but your own as to how you did, lie your head off. Do you ask people if they got paid last week or made their mortgage last month? Of course not, its NONE of your business.

Maybe you should just ask them how much they lost last time they went out to dinner or to a show. Or how much they lost by owning a car last year.

Quote: EvenBob

Considering its nobodies business but your own as to how you did, lie your head off. Do you ask people if they got paid last week or made their mortgage last month? Of course not, its NONE of your business.

I find there are two kinds of people that will ask how you did. The first kind is a majority and they're the snobby assholes we're talking about. Expecting you lost and they think that everyone who gambles is an idiotic addict. The second kind includes people like us, people who want to live vicariously through someone else's gambling trip. I often ask people how they did and as a fellow gambler I know if they say they "lost" then they lost big time and I drop it immediately. So it all depends - I have no problem lying to people who are part of the first group.