BedWetterBetter
BedWetterBetter
Joined: Oct 20, 2012
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September 23rd, 2018 at 12:56:52 PM permalink
I'm pretty fed up with Casino double standards and last night at Sands PA I couldn't believe my eyes.

At a $25 minimum table with a Max. Bet of $1000, a middle-aged man was playing $100-$500 Per hand with about $3000 in black chips. He ramped his bet up to $1000 and got dealt Q-7 vs dealer Ace. Dealer did not have blackjack but did have a 7 in the hole to beat him. Next hand the guy pushes all his remaining black chips in the circle and the dealer deals him 8-2 vs Dealer 8. He hits and gets a 7, he stands and the dealer turns over K for 18.

As the dealer reaches in to take the stack of Black chips, the player says "Wait, too much money. Table max $1000!" The dealer calls the floor who asks for a pit supervisor to count the black chips and it adds up to $1900, $900 over the table max. So they then decide to"check the tape". After several minutes of deliberating, they deem that the bet stands and the guy lost fairly. They use the excuse that if he had won and they paid him, he would not have given the money back, so therefore they won't give the money back after the hand is over.

Not only is this illegal but very unlike Sands to not honor their own rules. Numerous times, I've seen them overpay someone and then a phone call comes in 30 minutes or more later, they send a floor person accompanied by security guards to take the money back. They've done this for as a much as $500 to as little as $10. But whenever they paid someone too much money, they almost always got it back. I've also seen them allow big bettors to bet over the minimum on side bets like Kings Bounty & 3 Card Poker and take the money every time they lose, but as soon as they win, they say "the maximum is $50 and you bet $100, So we're only going to pay half!"

So now they get caught taking more money than they should and refuse to honor their own rules? Just truly pathetic practices from this place.
heatmap
heatmap
Joined: Feb 12, 2018
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September 23rd, 2018 at 3:09:47 PM permalink
I was there last night, and although its not the same situation, the dealer didnt check for BJ and let position one hit a card, then said woops have to check and had BJ. I know i cant have my money back but mistakes usually allow people to take their money back. That kind of mistake im almost sure its still a win for them.
GWAE
GWAE
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heatmapCrystalMath
September 23rd, 2018 at 5:01:56 PM permalink
sorry but they followed the rules. From the gaming manual.

§ 601a.6. Minimum and maximum wagers; additional wagering requirements;
payout odds.
(a) Certificate holders shall establish minimum and maximum wagers for any authorized
table game in a licensed facility.
(b) A certificate holder shall provide notice of the minimum and maximum wagers in
effect at each gaming table, and any changes thereto, in accordance with § 601a.7 (relating to
rules of the games; notice).
(c) Any wager accepted by a dealer that exceeds the current table maximum or is lower
than the current table minimum shall be paid or lost in its entirety in accordance with the rules of
the game.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
VCUSkyhawk
VCUSkyhawk
Joined: Sep 22, 2013
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September 23rd, 2018 at 7:31:04 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE


(c) Any wager accepted by a dealer that exceeds the current table maximum or is lower
than the current table minimum shall be paid or lost in its entirety in accordance with the rules of
the game.



I think the problem he is getting at (if true) is that the casino cant have it both ways. He says he has witnessed them requesting winning back that were over the maximum bet. If this is true, it violates part c as the dealer accepted the bet.
I got a plan, we take all your picks we reverse them like one of those twilight zone episodes where everything is the opposite. You say "black" we go white.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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September 24th, 2018 at 5:46:40 AM permalink
I have to side with the casino here. If it lays it plays. And you can bet he would have demanded payout if he won.

If you are going to play at the grown up table across like a grown up.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
mrsuit31
mrsuit31
Joined: May 29, 2010
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September 24th, 2018 at 5:51:53 AM permalink
Quote: VCUSkyhawk

I think the problem he is getting at (if true) is that the casino cant have it both ways. He says he has witnessed them requesting winning back that were over the maximum bet. If this is true, it violates part c as the dealer accepted the bet.



There is a very big difference between the dealer accepting a wager over or under the posted min/max and an improper over/under pay or an improper take/lose. The first (the scenario in the OP) is subject to the rule posted. The latter is a mistake by the dealer, which needs to be remedied.

Believe it or not, in a few situations I have heard of people being paid a long time after the event when it was picked up that the player was underpaid on a wager (I will concede that this may not be the norm and doesn't happen as often as it should). However, of course the player will need a player's card in the system in order for this to happen (these examples are not from PA).
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VCUSkyhawk
VCUSkyhawk
Joined: Sep 22, 2013
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Thanks for this post from:
mrsuit31
September 24th, 2018 at 7:00:22 AM permalink
You are correct Mrsuit. I just reread and it is a completely different scenario.
I got a plan, we take all your picks we reverse them like one of those twilight zone episodes where everything is the opposite. You say "black" we go white.
unJon
unJon
Joined: Jul 1, 2018
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September 24th, 2018 at 7:19:01 AM permalink
Quote: mrsuit31

There is a very big difference between the dealer accepting a wager over or under the posted min/max and an improper over/under pay or an improper take/lose. The first (the scenario in the OP) is subject to the rule posted. The latter is a mistake by the dealer, which needs to be remedied.

Believe it or not, in a few situations I have heard of people being paid a long time after the event when it was picked up that the player was underpaid on a wager (I will concede that this may not be the norm and doesn't happen as often as it should). However, of course the player will need a player's card in the system in order for this to happen (these examples are not from PA).



Well the OP also says the following, which sounds the same to me as accepting the above table max losing BJ bet: “I've also seen them allow big bettors to bet over the minimum on side bets like Kings Bounty & 3 Card Poker and take the money every time they lose, but as soon as they win, they say "the maximum is $50 and you bet $100, So we're only going to pay half!"”
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
michael99000
michael99000
Joined: Jul 10, 2010
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September 24th, 2018 at 8:42:45 AM permalink
Quote: GWAE

sorry but they followed the rules. From the gaming manual.

§ 601a.6. Minimum and maximum wagers; additional wagering requirements;
payout odds.
(a) Certificate holders shall establish minimum and maximum wagers for any authorized
table game in a licensed facility.
(b) A certificate holder shall provide notice of the minimum and maximum wagers in
effect at each gaming table, and any changes thereto, in accordance with § 601a.7 (relating to
rules of the games; notice).
(c) Any wager accepted by a dealer that exceeds the current table maximum or is lower
than the current table minimum shall be paid or lost in its entirety in accordance with the rules of
the game.



That’s interesting. I play at Sands PA often, and while playing roullete in the high limit area ($500 max on the inside) I had a gray $5000 chip in my hand. There was a bunch of people playing and many large stacks of chips on the board. I asked the pit manager what would happen if I put the $5000 chip on a number and it won and the dealer didn’t notice it there because of all the chips on top of it and large stacks on numbers near it that kinda hid my chip. He said I’d only get paid $17,500 (the max bet payout) and not the $175,000 I should get paid. Then I says what happens if my 5k chip was on a number and it didn’t win. He told me after the dealer sweeps it, they’d refund me $4500, the amount over the max that I was
heatmap
heatmap
Joined: Feb 12, 2018
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September 24th, 2018 at 11:13:43 AM permalink
Quote: michael99000

That’s interesting. I play at Sands PA often, and while playing roullete in the high limit area ($500 max on the inside) I had a gray $5000 chip in my hand. There was a bunch of people playing and many large stacks of chips on the board. I asked the pit manager what would happen if I put the $5000 chip on a number and it won and the dealer didn’t notice it there because of all the chips on top of it and large stacks on numbers near it that kinda hid my chip. He said I’d only get paid $17,500 (the max bet payout) and not the $175,000 I should get paid. Then I says what happens if my 5k chip was on a number and it didn’t win. He told me after the dealer sweeps it, they’d refund me $4500, the amount over the max that I was



ignorance in either case is a loss for either side.

if the pit manager is willing to pay that accidental non-win back its amount over, then the casino loses, as it is obviously a law that is on the casinos side.

and a loss in your case if you accidentally bet an amount over the max and they accidentally accept it.

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