Having to tip dealers is ridiculous
Quote: nobetthisrollYes...you'd be happy. And maybe a handful of others. However the rewards systems exist for players who DO value things such as free drinks, free hotel rooms, free pre-paid vacations, free meals, free giveaways, match play/direct bet/slot play, jackpot sweepstakes, etc. Every single night I hear a dozen or more players demanding a comp. Just the other night a woman was willing to argue over for 2 hours how much she had lost/won just so she could get a $50 comp to the asian restaurant. Since there was a dispute in what she said vs. what was shown in the computer, they resorted to calling surveillance and rolling back the tape. So, yeah, maybe you and some others don't care, but I'm willing to bet the majority of players do want their free stuff and privileges - including FREE entry into the casino to begin with... which I'm sure would also disappear if houses were forced to pay their dealers xxx amount of dollars vs. the $5 they pay now.
edit: Oh and this is just referring to the big houses. What about the smaller, independent houses with $1,000 table limits? Please, they would flounder and fail.
I don't disagree, I was just responding to your point about casinos "making up for it somehow" if tips weren't allowed. Sure, casinos may or may not suffer if that ever happened, but there would still be people willing to be dealers even if there were no tips.
You have an inalienable right to be a cheap bastard !
Quote: nobetthisrollSo, yeah, maybe you and some others don't care, but I'm willing to bet the majority of players do want their free stuff and privileges - .
Absolutely, they think they have it coming. It's
the chump mentality, Benny Binion really hit
on something when he got the ball rolling with
free drinks in 1952. I learned a disdain for
comps in the 70's watching my moms 2nd
husband. He lived for comps in Reno, and this
guy was no dummy, he was an engineer at
Kaiser aerospace.
He bragged constantly about the free flights and
rooms and meals. It eventually broke him because
he let them suck him into the comps vortex. Ever
since then I have no use for comps, never had
a players card, never will. The casino can shove them,
evil bastards that they are.
Quote: EvenBobEver
since then I have no use for comps, never had
a players card, never will. The casino can shove them,
evil bastards that they are.
The Caesars Total Rewards people love me. My mailbox is stuffed full of free play coupons, free flights to here and there, free rooms, merchandise, special giveaways, exclusive parties....on and on. I'm not in the least bit proud of the attention.
Unsolicited attention up the ass. I'm their perfect chump. I bet a lot, drink a lot, tip a lot and lose a lot. My mailbox will remain stuffed until they get every last penny out of me. It is afterall their job.
I've used the free play coupons maybe 6 times and lost 5 plays. I then get into my money and continue to lose. I'm their wet dream.
2014 New years resolution is to stop gambling. 18 days and counting.
I do get a dollar off beers in the VIP section with my Diamond status. Yes!
Quote: Beethoven9thI don't disagree, I was just responding to your point about casinos "making up for it somehow" if tips weren't allowed. Sure, casinos may or may not suffer if that ever happened, but there would still be people willing to be dealers even if there were no tips.
Sure there would - I'm sure there are small houses who would be thrilled to make a flat $15 an hour because they only make $10 an hour as it stands. Bigger houses, though, would walk out immediately. But I'm just saying the entire discussion is moot regardless. I doubt it's ever going to happen; just like restaurants paying their servers $2.50 an hour and making tips on top. Being a dealer takes times and money. Unpaid training if the house offers it - otherwise, fork out the cash at a school for the class. The kind of people who are desperate for jobs and want a dealer job I'm guessing don't have the thousands/hundreds/whatever to fork over initially. Plus, at least in my state, undergo a 30+ page application invading your entire life - plus having to pass a credit check, etc. Don't get me wrong; I love my job and it's fun getting to talk to different people all the time - but compared to my previous corporate office "professional" jobs - it took a lot more out of me.
I don't have a problem with people who are cool and don't tip - it's just how they are. I only had a problem with the OP saying those who tip are stupid, hence my entry into the discussion to begin with.
Quote: treetopbuddyMy mailbox will remain stuffed until they get every last penny out of me.
At least you realize it, most people don't,
they look at it as +EV. I won't play that
stupid game with them.
You missed my earlier post. Here's what I said regarding what would happen if casinos ended tipping:Quote: nobetthisrollSure there would - I'm sure there are small houses who would be thrilled to make a flat $15 an hour because they only make $10 an hour as it stands. Bigger houses, though, would walk out immediately. But I'm just saying the entire discussion is moot regardless.
"...casinos would not just pack up & leave if this happened. They'd make adjustments so that those jobs would be attractive enough so that people would once again apply. That's how the free market works."
I do agree with you on this point.Quote: nobetthisrollI don't have a problem with people who are cool and don't tip - it's just how they are. I only had a problem with the OP saying those who tip are stupid, hence my entry into the discussion to begin with.
Quote: EvenBobAt least you realize it, most people don't,
they look at it as +EV. I won't play that
stupid game with them.
I 100% disagree. This month I have $300 budgeted for a casino. If I am going to spend $300 this month in a casino then why wouldn't I want to look at all of my mailers and go to the place on a given day that is giving me the most extra money. I am going somewhere regardless of what is given but I am going to pick the place that is giving me $100 and a free meal opposed to the other place that is giving me $10 and $10 free food.
btw: tonight for dinner my wife and I are going to Rivers Casino in Pittsburgh because we both have a $20 food voucher. The casino is closer to us than a lot of other restaurants as well. While I am there I am going to use my $20 free play and not 1 penny more. We always go out to dinner on Sunday so how is a free meal and maybe $10 in our pocket a -ev. Granted these offers dry up when we don't play which is fine but in a few months when we go back to use our monthly gambling budget there we will receive the offers again for a few months.
Quote: treetopbuddyJobs do turn into careers for unmotivated individuals.
FYP
Quote: zippyboyQuote: treetopbuddyJobs do turn into careers for unmotivated individuals.
FYP
But sometimes a career can end at Mile Marker 164, for even the most motivated individual.
Quote: GWAEI 100% disagree. This month I have $300 budgeted for a casino. If I am going to spend $300 this month in a casino then why wouldn't I want to look at all of my mailers and go to the place on a given day that is giving me the most extra money. I am going somewhere regardless of what is given but I am going to pick the place that is giving me $100 and a free meal opposed to the other place that is giving me $10 and $10 free food.
btw: tonight for dinner my wife and I are going to Rivers Casino in Pittsburgh because we both have a $20 food voucher. The casino is closer to us than a lot of other restaurants as well. While I am there I am going to use my $20 free play and not 1 penny more. We always go out to dinner on Sunday so how is a free meal and maybe $10 in our pocket a -ev. Granted these offers dry up when we don't play which is fine but in a few months when we go back to use our monthly gambling budget there we will receive the offers again for a few months.
How much did those "free meals" cost you so far at this casino?
Quote: anonimussHow much did those "free meals" cost you so far at this casino?
that is not the point. The point is I would play regardless so I might as well get free stuff along the way. Its a lot tougher to get free stuff without using a card.
Quote: nobetthisrollEvery casino I'm aware of in the US is tipped; pooled or otherwise...
Some places are "go for own" tips, like casino Arizona. You can notice the dealer's entering and exiting tables with their own toke boxes.
I will say that in these go-for-your-own casinos, the dealers there do NOT have any contempt for the Georges, as it is a DIRECT gratuity for direct service.
Some dealers feel, at pooled places, some anger at sharing the hard-earned tips with dead-beat dealers on staff, and may feel frustration, knowing the Georges' generosity is diluted or misguided.
Went to the Platinum check in area at the Rio to get my boarding pass..... you couldn't do it yourself, had to ask an employee to do it for you...
Wasn't sure what to do about a tip but I figured in vegas everyone has there hand out...... had a dollar chip in my pocket and handed to the guy who just spent around one minute printing my boarding pass...
I could see him calling over a colleague and jokingly showed him the chip while glancing back at me.... I so wanted to say I overpaid him for his skills and abilities... but kept silent and walked out....
Am I supposed to tip $5 to the guy for printing my boarding pass? Geeeeeezzzz.....
Sorry you got side-eyed by the one guy. It wouldn't have occurred to me to tip them in there; they're hosts and such. Other people might do so. But IMO, it would be very unusual for them to get tipped at the VIP counter; they're in a job where either they get gifts or nothing, not little tips for little services. It may have been like the old joke to them (that they share with the customers, not laughing at them) where, the easy way to do Vegas is to wear a cash-dispensing machine like a backpack. Every 5 minutes, a little bell goes "ding", and a dollar bill sticks out from the slot. The nearest employee steps up and removes it without you having to stop whatever you're doing. And everybody's happy.
Quote: beachbumbabsSOOPOO,
Sorry you got side-eyed by the one guy. It wouldn't have occurred to me to tip them in there; .
I agree, he showed it to the other guy not
because it was only a buck, but because
they don't get tips and he showed it because
it was unusual. Plus you look like a NY doctor
and they wanted to make fun of you as you
walked away. Dang bigots..
Bob, I think playing for only comps for the most part is dumb. If you are playing anyways then I think its dumb not to use a players card for the comps, unless you have a reason to keep your identity concealed, that can be a red flag anyways.Quote: EvenBobAbsolutely, they think they have it coming. It's
the chump mentality, Benny Binion really hit
on something when he got the ball rolling with
free drinks in 1952. I learned a disdain for
comps in the 70's watching my moms 2nd
husband. He lived for comps in Reno, and this
guy was no dummy, he was an engineer at
Kaiser aerospace.
He bragged constantly about the free flights and
rooms and meals. It eventually broke him because
he let them suck him into the comps vortex. Ever
since then I have no use for comps, never had
a players card, never will. The casino can shove them,
evil bastards that they are.
I'm not saying he was, but if you are a weak willed person, who easily gets caught in a vortex then you shouldn't be gambling in the first place. Just because you receive a free dinner or comped room in the mail dose not mean you have to run to the casino and lose your ass taking advantage of it. Sometimes you need to be the predator not the prey.
Comps can be a valuable tool in beating casinos, I know guys that have lived in casinos for years, using nothing but comps and beating/crushing the casinos while doing so. Buying everything they needed from gift shops. They saved tons of money by not having to pay rent or use money for food, clothing, personal items etc. A few of them guys are worth millions now, with family's and everything one may want in life .
Nowadays with all the comped free play,rebate and free tournament offers its almost a sin not to be tracked. If you can find a moderately low risk break even machine that earns you an incredible amount of comps on your players card, it's worth it, since in some casinos that players card is almost like a credit card, one can use for everything from gift shop, shows, food court, spas, and air fair. Normal people buy that stuff anyways. Some of that stuff can be turned into cash as well.
You mentioned this guy was no dummy and he was a engineer for aerospace. I said it before, I will say it again. Some of the smartest guys in the world can't AP. It takes much more then just being really smart.
Quote: AxelWolfYou mentioned this guy was no dummy and he was a engineer for aerospace. I said it before, I will say it again. Some of the smartest guys in the world can't AP. It takes much more then just being really smart.
He looked at comps as a reward for him being
a good customer, not as a ploy to get him to
come back and lose even more. He had a huge
ego and it would never occur to him that they
thought he was just another chump. Which, of
course, he was.
Quote: GandlerBut I have never seen a Casino where dealers expect or even hint at a tip
...I always tip even of I am losing. I am in general a generous person...I have never not tipped a dealer even if they are total jerks
Why the heck would they need to hint if you're tipping jerks even when you're losing? lol
CHEAP BASTARD !
Quote: Beethoven9thWhy the heck would they need to hint if you're tipping jerks even when you're losing? lol
Good Point. Lol. But nonetheless I believe in always tipping and always being polite regardless of how the dealers and other players act. And I believe it pays off, I usually do better than I statistically should, now that is my superstition maybe its pure chance (probably is). But also I notice when I am super polite and tip more I get rated way higher than I should, being polite and a little generous can go a long way.
Quote: nobetthisrollYou know dealers have fees to pay just to deal, right? We have to pay for classes, our gaming licenses, etc. The 8 week craps class is a $1,200 class. The 6 week Blackjack/carnival game class is an $800 class. The 4 week Baccarat class is $800. Gaming license? $350. I assume whatever you do for a living, you paid for an education and are now making a salary relative to that, yes? You really think if everyone in the world stopped tipping which would result in dealers making $5-6 an hour, that you would still have a place to go gamble? There would be no incentive for dealers to deal and they would quit. Sweet, let's go get paid $5 an hour to be screamed at, have cigarette smoke blown in our faces, cards thrown in our face, etc.
Your logic is that someone is risking their own money - yeah, okay, and assuming people don't always lose - Two hours later after winning in excess of $5k and they color up to leave, the risk is over. They have 1 white cheque left, that can't be a tip for the dealer? Especially when they've been throwing the cocktail waitress a nickel every time they've gotten a "free" drink?
I spent close to $200k on eight (8) years of school
BA
JD
LLM
People hire me with a known risk as there are no guarantees in the legal system
I get screamed at by clients, opposing counsel, opposing clients and judges
I am not tipped.
Quote: aceofspadesI spent close to $200k on eight (8) years of school
BA
JD
LLM
People hire me with a known risk as there are no guarantees in the legal system
I get screamed at by clients, opposing counsel, opposing clients and judges
I am not tipped.
Most people have jobs where they are not tipped (at least not routinely). An Doctor, a sewage worker, carpenter, soldier, and a computer programmer, etc... Can all say the same thing (except for the school part).
If you feel you don't want to tip you don't have to, but there is no point complaining that others tip, people are entitled to do what they want with their money. Personally I would feel better with myself giving the dealer a 10 dollar tip than flushing it down a slot machine.
Quote: GandlerMost people have jobs where they are not tipped (at least not routinely). An Doctor, a sewage worker, carpenter, soldier, and a computer programmer, etc... Can all say the same thing (except for the school part).
If you feel you don't want to tip you don't have to, but there is no point complaining that others tip, people are entitled to do what they want with their money. Personally I would feel better with myself giving the dealer a 10 dollar tip than flushing it down a slot machine.
Personally, I tip.
Quote: aceofspadesI spent close to $200k on eight (8) years of school
BA
JD
LLM
People hire me with a known risk as there are no guarantees in the legal system
I get screamed at by clients, opposing counsel, opposing clients and judges
I am not tipped.
That must've been a tough bris. :D
Quote: beachbumbabsThat must've been a tough bris. :D
Hmmmm is that a compliment or a dig?
Quote: aceofspadesI spent close to $200k on eight (8) years of school
BA
JD
LLM
I get screamed at by clients, opposing counsel, opposing clients and judges
.
And dealers and suits and ladies in red.
Quote: aceofspadesHmmmm is that a compliment or a dig?
It was meant as a double entendre, as in, the Rabbi must've been nearsided. But not a dig.
Quote: beachbumbabsIt was meant as a double entendre, as in, the Rabbi must've been nearsided. But not a dig.
LOL I knew about the double entendre but wasn't sure which direction you were going with it...
Quote: EvenBobAnd dealers and suits and ladies in red.
LOL
I have went out with, gambled with, dated, hung around, many casino employees. I'm related to a few. They are the cheapest tippers of them all. Go with a BJ dealer to play blackjack and watch how cheap he is. Bartenders seem better, but they defiantly don't tip what they feel they should be tipped themselves.
Quote: AxelWolfOnce again I tip. Sometimes generously sometimes not so much. Big expensive dinners is where I really think the amounts expected are absurd.
I have went out with, gambled with, dated, hung around, many casino employees. I'm related to a few. They are the cheapest tippers of them all. Go with a BJ dealer to play blackjack and watch how cheap he is. Bartenders seem better, but they defiantly don't tip what they feel they should be tipped themselves.
Really? I have not noticed this. In fact, just the opposite.
In poker, I find that dealers tip WAY too much. Like, they will tip $3-$5 for every pot they win at a $3/$6 limit game. I also find that waitresses tip pretty well in restaurants.
I will tip a lot for a big expensive dinner if the service is good enough to warrant the tip. If I am paying $300 for a dinner for two, I will gladly tip $60 if the service is what I expect from a high-end restaurant. Obviously, my expectations are lower if I'm at a greasy spoon diner and paying $25 for breakfast for two.
That's because they are playing in their house/work. I will make you a side bet(terms can be worked out), and we can do an experiment, it would be a great piece of information for the forum and the gambling community. we will go to different casinos and play poker. chat up the table and find out who the dealers are, then watch them and what they tip on average.Quote: AxiomOfChoiceReally? I have not noticed this. In fact, just the opposite.
In poker, I find that dealers tip WAY too much. Like, they will tip $3-$5 for every pot they win at a $3/$6 limit game.
You should agree with me, that people who work for tips, should tip more then the average person right? Lets talk to some dealers look at dealers posts and see what they expect or claim they tip. Let see if they are hypocrites.
I would like to do this with other casino employees. If we find they tip no better or even less then the average person we can put this tipping crap to rest. I will start tipping as much as the average casino employee dose. I'm counting the savings now. I have never seen a casino employee tip $100 on a 1k royal even where they work. Or give up half a drawing. I would have to stiff everyone for the rest of my life, If I wanted to lower my average to what casino employees tip on average.
We can start by seeing what former poker dealers who won major poker tourneys have tipped.
Quote: AxelWolfThat's because they are playing in their house/work. I will make you a side bet(terms can be worked out), and we can do an experiment, it would be a great piece of information for the forum and the gambling community. we will go to different casinos and play poker. chat up the table and find out who the dealers are, then watch them and what they tip on average.
You should agree with me, that people who work for tips, should tip more then the average person right? Lets talk to some dealers look at dealers posts and see what they expect or claim they tip. Let see if they are hypocrites.
I would like to do this with other casino employees. If we find they tip no better or even less then the average person we can put this tipping crap to rest. I will start tipping as much as the average casino employee dose. I'm counting the savings now. I have never seen a casino employee tip $100 on a 1k royal even where they work. Or give up half a drawing. I would have to stiff everyone for the rest of my life, If I wanted to lower my average to what casino employees tip on average.
We can start by seeing what former poker dealers who won major poker tourneys have tipped.
$100 on a 1k win is crazy. That's not even a hand-pay; who would you tip?
What would you tip in the following situations:
$1500 royal (quarters, progressive)
$6k royal (dollars, progressive)
$10k table game win (say, MS Stud, playing quarters, 4OAK)
$50k slot machine win (say, playing a +EV QH machine and hitting the top line pay?)
Quote: AxiomOfChoice$100 on a 1k win is crazy. That's not even a hand-pay; who would you tip?
What would you tip in the following situations:
$1500 royal (quarters, progressive)
$6k royal (dollars, progressive)
$10k table game win (say, MS Stud, playing quarters, 4OAK)
$50k slot machine win (say, playing a +EV QH machine and hitting the top line pay?)
No idea about the 1st two, but I'd be willing to be a pretty decent tipper on the last two if they'd pay me solely in chips and "forget" about the paperwork required ;-)
Quote: SoulChaserNo idea about the 1st two, but I'd be willing to be a pretty decent tipper on the last two if they'd pay me solely in chips and "forget" about the paperwork required ;-)
Well the third one has no paperwork required, since it's under the 300x limit (it's a 40x payout on 10 bets).
The other 3 all require W2Gs (which is why they are hand-pays). No reputable casino is going to "forget" about the paperwork, and I definitely wouldn't play in a non-reputable casino.
Quote: AxelWolfThat's because they are playing in their house/work. I will make you a side bet(terms can be worked out), and we can do an experiment, it would be a great piece of information for the forum and the gambling community. we will go to different casinos and play poker. chat up the table and find out who the dealers are, then watch them and what they tip on average.
You should agree with me, that people who work for tips, should tip more then the average person right? Lets talk to some dealers look at dealers posts and see what they expect or claim they tip. Let see if they are hypocrites.
I would like to do this with other casino employees. If we find they tip no better or even less then the average person we can put this tipping crap to rest. I will start tipping as much as the average casino employee dose. I'm counting the savings now. I have never seen a casino employee tip $100 on a 1k royal even where they work. Or give up half a drawing. I would have to stiff everyone for the rest of my life, If I wanted to lower my average to what casino employees tip on average.
We can start by seeing what former poker dealers who won major poker tourneys have tipped.
Can speak for everywhere, but ever time I saw a dealer playing in any casino, they always were heavy tippers. At least in Colorado.
And talk about loose players. OMG, talk about raising on anything. LOL
Quote: SoulChaserMy apologies, I didnt notice the desc of Mississippi Stud after the third option, I was thinking of hitting the royal in UTH. I know, and wholeheartedly agree with your second statement Axiom, I guess i just figured that the ";-)" at the end of my post implied sarcasm.
Oh, sorry. Not sure if it wasn't clear or if I just missed the obvious :)
In the past they were all hand pays, Also some places every cash out is a hand pay(like at a bar or 7-11), and yes it is crazy, its not something I would do often, it would all depend on the plays value and how much time I was spending at the location.Quote: AxiomOfChoice$100 on a 1k win is crazy. That's not even a hand-pay; who would you tip?
What would you tip in the following situations:
$1500 royal (quarters, progressive)
$6k royal (dollars, progressive)
$10k table game win (say, MS Stud, playing quarters, 4OAK)
$50k slot machine win (say, playing a +EV QH machine and hitting the top line pay?)
Back to the experiment, are you interested ?
Quote: AxelWolfIn the past they were all hand pays, Also some places every cash out is a hand pay(like at a bar or 7-11), and yes it is crazy, its not something I would do often, it would all depend on the plays value and how much time I was spending at the location.
Back to the experiment, are you interested ?
Not really. Maybe Vegas is different from other places. Around here the dealers all tip like crazy.
It's not that I care if I lose a small bet, but scouting poker games for dealer tipping habits is not how I want to spend my vacation.
Lost $175 in about 6 hands with some bad beats. New dealer came in and gave us some hope by Busting the first hand.
The very next hand, Blackjack with a 10 showing...
Literally put the last green chip from the $200 buy-in up and said "Well, it's all or nothing now!"
Get dealt a 19 and win! Started pressing the winnings on top of the previous bet for 4 wins in a row.
chip stack back up to $800 and I figure I'll play $50 a hand til I lose!
3 more wins in a row and I'm at $950. Decided to bet $75 and get dealt a Blackjack!
I normally do not tip, but gave the new dealer two red and the pink chip.
We was grateful, wished me luck and said have a nice day.
And that actually made me feel good about tipping. Someone genuinely thanking you and a change of pace from the losing you just endured.
Wish more dealers had this attitude
Quote: anonimussYour results would have been the same if a flea infested baboon was dealing the cards.
Yeah but he might have gotten fleas.
He came in and did his job, without sulking or antagonizing the patrons.
He gave no indication that I owed him anything and brought a much needed change to the atmosphere of the table.
It's little things like that, which make a dealer worth tipping. Not over emphasizing what you did or did NOT do for someone.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceNot really. Maybe Vegas is different from other places. Around here the dealers all tip like crazy.
It's not that I care if I lose a small bet, but scouting poker games for dealer tipping habits is not how I want to spend my vacation.
I'll add my .02 cents. I've stated many times I worked at harrahs as a cage cashier in Arizona. Our best tippers were....our own dealers. I'd say on average they would tip the cage 5-10% of their own tokes each night. Our only interaction with them was exchanging their tokes/chips for cash at the employee cage at the end of their shift. I was always amazed at how generous they were. The worst tippers were the beverage servers.
Quote: BeardgoatI'll add my .02 cents. I've stated many times I worked at harrahs as a cage cashier in Arizona. Our best tippers were....our own dealers. I'd say on average they would tip the cage 5-10% of their own tokes each night. Our only interaction with them was exchanging their tokes/chips for cash at the employee cage at the end of their shift. I was always amazed at how generous they were. The worst tippers were the beverage servers.
I'm glad someone brought up dealers tipping cashiers. At the casino where I work, the cashier doubles as the beverage server. I, as well as the other dealers, usually tip around 10% of our tokes, but in return, we expect proper service, such as our players getting their drinks in a timely manner, taking empties away quickly, etc. We have had cages in the past who I have stiffed because they weren't doing their job, and not coincidentally, they didn't keep the job long either.
