Having to tip dealers is ridiculous

Quote: allinriverking

There is no whining, people who are cheap, have the same mentality of people that believe they deserve free stuff in life. Case closed.

OMG! This you! You have a job and get a paycheck, but still you want 'free stuff' from your customers. You are the dancing money. You are the squeegy guy. You are the 'need beer' guy. No difference.

If you deserve more compensation than your cheap boss is paying you, then talk to him. Don't stoop to begging.

Quote: djatc

So I don't donate my hard earned money to charity, based on your reasoning. I am a cheapass who hoards money and never gives it out to those that need it the most in times of need.

Giving to a charity and tipping someone for doing a good job for them are two different things. People working to provide a better experience deserves to be tipped. Or get the same run of the mill treatment. If you want that attention to be placed more on you, then the attention is naturally diverted from others. So would I divert more of my attention to someone that doesn't make my life easier, no... Higher pay makes it easier for me to afford things for my family, in turn making it easier on me. Am I getting that as a handout, hell no. I'm working, most times faster and harder to get more hands out for a player that likes a faster game. In turn making me more tired and worn out on my days off. No different than doing piece work in a factory. The more pieces the better pay. The better you entertain and take care of your guests, should equal greater pay than someone that just offers mediocre service.

Quote: kewlj

OMG! This you! You have a job and get a paycheck, but still you want 'free stuff' from your customers. You are the dancing money. You are the squeegy guy. You are the 'need beer' guy. No difference.

If you deserve more compensation than your cheap boss is paying you, then talk to him. Don't stoop to begging.

I'm a paid entertainer, you are correct. I don't have my hand out. Squeegy guy, comes to you if you want the service or not. You come to my table, again another difference. If I see you are not tipping or if I hear you say you don't tip. You get the service of getting your cards. Nothing more. What my base pay pays for. The physical dealing of cards. The tip money pays for anything more I give, the good time you had regardless if you won or not. This allows me to divert more of my attention to the people that are there for the good time, not to just win..

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Ha! Yes, that is correct I am feeding off the sweat of the dealer just like a homeless person wanting a handout. If I'm feeding off anyone its the ploppies who lose the money who pay the casino who employ the dealers. Allinriverking, your mentality is the reason I stopped tipping dealers. My guess is that you are upset that you have a chosen profession where you rely on the kindness and generosity of other people, that instead of being grateful you decide that people who aren't being generous and giving you money are somehow greedy. The funny thing is, I used to tip dealers even though I knew it cut substantially into my win rate while card counting. Unfortunately for people like you I eventually learned that many have a sense of entitlement that would make an Obama supporter blush. Yes, people like you have ruined it for the rest of the dealers who don't think the world owes them something. They are often dissatisfied with a measly 5 or 10 dollar tip after seeing me win 5 or 600, and they couldn't care less if I lost 5 or 600 in the ten minutes before that at another table. I have tipped dealers hundreds of dollars over the course of the past 18 months (probably close to 1000) since I learned to count and have come to realize that tipping them is pointless. Dealers are usually not even thankful, as they expect to get tipped. This is completely ridiculous.

When I delivered pizza I was glad when I got a two or a three dollar tip. You want to talk about providing a service? Bringing someone food to their house, saving them from putting miles on their own car and saving them gas, and also the fact that at any time some idiot could kill you by swerving into your lane while you are bringing someone their pizza. In my mind, this makes them 10 times more deserving of a tip than someone dealing some cards, or pouring a drink for that matter. When I got stiffed as a driver it didn't bother me at all unless the people were also rude. I thought it was really funny when people complained so much and got so angry about getting stiffed. I viewed it as my job, and if I didn't make enough in tips I should quit, not whine.

What about teachers? They definitely provide a service. Some teachers are very shitty. Some teachers go above and beyond to provide an excellent education for either your kids or people that you will interact with everyday. Have you ever tipped a teacher? Why not tip them? FYI I know bartenders that make more money than my friends who are teachers.

And one last point - Recently a friend of mine who tries to count cards but sucks at it won 1200 dollars in about 10 minutes at a table with a cute dealer who some other of my friends knew. Actually she is really sexy, the best looking dealer there probably. Anyway my buddy tips her 75 bucks at the end of his session, mostly so much because they had mutual friends in common. I always tell him that tipping dealers is pointless and it will be impossible to win in the long run if he always tips dealers. That is, unless the dealer actually does go above and beyond a regular dealer and is either funny entertaining or just genuinely very nice, then I always tip them even when I lose. So anyway I told him he wasted 75 dollars, but he held on to the hope he could get a date with this girl. So the next day, this bitch has the nerve to tell our mutual friends that my friend who tipped her 75 dollars is cheap and that 15-20% of a win is an acceptable amount. Now that I am done laughing at that comment, this just goes to show the mentality of (some) dealers that they should be getting tipped nonstop. If that were the case we all might as well become dealers.

If I was a blackjack dealer standing there bored out of mind, I would way rather deal to someone knowing 100% they weren't going to tip me than sit there with nothing to do. Having something to do makes the time go by faster and I would be glad they showed up.

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If you're not tipping that is your choice. But it's also fair when people call you out for being a cheap bastard. So don't get your feelings all ruffled kewlj. You know dealers make minimum wage at most places and rely on tips for a living, just like waitresses. This is fact. Please dont tell me that casinos should cover these costs and not pass them on to the customer. You already get perks for playing like comps, free drinks, buffets, & using the facilities at no cost. If the casinos decided to charge you for drinks and stop providing comps In order to give the dealers a raise im sure you would really be against that policy. As it stands now youre just trying to squeeze any possible freebie you can out of the casino which is cool with me. Just don't be insulted that i think you're cheap.

Quote: allinriverking

I'm a paid entertainer, you are correct.

The tip money pays for anything more I give, the good time you had regardless if you won or not.

Where do you get this crap from. You are NOT an entertainer. You are a dealer. If you want to be an entertainer, then go to a comedy club or join your community theater. Nobody, not one single person leaves there home to come to your casino and sits at your table to be entertained by you. Everybody, sits down with the same intention as myself, to win money. If you don't believe me, try this: Don't deal the cards. Just stand there and entertain. See how many people stay at your table. Lol

Furthermore, no body asked you for 'anything more'. You took that upon yourself to decide what the customer wants. And quite frankly, I would bet you are wrong in most cases. Players come to play and win money. That is the draw. Not some entertaining dealer. I would be more likely to tip if you just did your job. Quietly and efficiently, without all the nonsense that YOU have decided that I want.

I do tip teachers in the form of better Christmas gifts, the ones that care about the progress of my children.

I am greatly appreciative of the tips I receive. I thank everyone that tips, even a dollar.

What I'm saying is, you won't get a attitude from me if you don't tip. But you won't get me remembering your name, to take that space up in my brain, because I come into contact with hundreds of people a week. I take the time to learn the people that appreciate me and the service I provide. Like I said, go ahead and have the casinos cover the difference in pay. You would never win, because the house edge would have to be doubled or greater to cover the difference, because dealers don't even make minimum wage for base. Because the government classifies the position as a tipped wage earner, and the companies don't have to legally pay us minimum wage.

"If you're not tipping that is your choice. But it's also fair when people call you out for being a cheap bastard. "

Which I frequently do, because the dealer can not ! ! !

Quote: kewlj

Where do you get this crap from. You are NOT an entertainer. You are a dealer. If you want to be an entertainer, then go to a comedy club or join your community theater. Nobody, not one single person leaves there home to come to your casino and sits at your table to be entertained by you. Everybody, sits down with the same intention as myself, to win money. If you don't believe me, try this: Don't deal the cards. Just stand there and entertain. See how many people stay at your table. Lol

Furthermore, no body asked you for 'anything more'. You took that upon yourself to decide what the customer wants. And quite frankly, I would bet you are wrong in most cases. Players come to play and win money. That is the draw. Not some entertaining dealer. I would be more likely to tip if you just did your job. Quietly and efficiently, without all the nonsense that YOU have decided that I want.

You are sadly wrong kewl, because if that were the case the casino wouldn't look for the outgoing people type person to start conversation and make them laugh, so they have a good time. This is to make the player get something out of their trip, should they lose. This is so they come back. And you are wrong also, the players that go to casino during the day, older crowd, are looking for that interaction, not just for cards to be dealt to them.

On the flip side... Dealers... If you don't like your job, find a new one. It's really that easy. Not everybody in casinos tip, and not everybody in restaurants tips 20% either. The great thing about tipping is that there is no set criteria.

The stories I've read about the Caesars dealers asking for $15 more to play the inside, or the craps dealers telling Raleigh how much to press are ridiculous. I'd never play on tables with dealers like that.

Well then it sounds like you are the type of dealer I would and still do tip, and not the kind that totally expect a tip for not saying a word or having any personality whatsoever and then give you attitude when you color up. Those are the dealers I was referring to. Even if you do tip teachers, in my opinion they are much more deserving of tips than dealers are and there is no weird societal standard that they should be given money by people for doing their job.

Quote: Buzzard

"If you're not tipping that is your choice. But it's also fair when people call you out for being a cheap bastard. "

Which I frequently do, because the dealer can not ! ! !

Thanks Buzz

If people just want cards to be dealt and nothing more, go play a computer. If that's all you are truly after, is to win or not.

Quote: Beardgoat

If you're not tipping that is your choice. But it's also fair when people call you out for being a cheap bastard. So don't get your feelings all ruffled kewlj. You know dealers make minimum wage at most places and rely on tips for a living, just like waitresses. This is fact.

My feelings aren't hurt, Beardgoat. And I am not ashamed of my position. If I was, I wouldn't freely admit that I don't often tip dealers.

The fact that dealers make minimum wager is not my problem. They chose that profession, not me. Am, I also required to compensate the McDonalds workers, the gas station cashier, the clerk at Walmart and every other minimum wage or low wage worker that I come in contact with? Is that my responsibility?

Quote: OzzyOsbourne

Well then it sounds like you are the type of dealer I would and still do tip, and not the kind that totally expect a tip for not saying a word or having any personality whatsoever and then give you attitude when you color up. Those are the dealers I was referring to. Even if you do tip teachers, in my opinion they are much more deserving of tips than dealers are and there is no weird societal standard that they should be given money by people for doing their job.

Teachers around here make between $60,000-80,000 a year for working 9 months of the year. There wages already are set to cover their efforts. If we just got base pay we would make around $12,000 a year. I would be all in favor of the house paying a $20 hr rate. But then service would lack eventually, and no one would go above or beyond their set duties as flipping cards. Same thing with teachers, have them earn 3/4's of their wages base on their efforts of going beyond, instead of just handing papers out for kids to read.

Quote: allinriverking

If people just want cards to be dealt and nothing more, go play a computer. If that's all you are truly after, is to win or not.

Be careful what you wish for, allinriverking. I don't know about where you are but, here in Vegas, nearly every week, I come a new location that has replaced a live table game with an electronic version, like the azure blackjack, roulette craps games.

Sorry kewlj, I've never heard of anyone saying they tip McDonald's workers, Walmart cashiers, etc... That is not industry standard. Tipping casino dealers is standard. Fact. And you know it is fact. Trying to justify your cheapness by asking if you should also consider tipping those positions is not relevant and is petty. I notice you didn't ask me if ou should also be tipping other known tipping positions like bell hops, cab drivers, waiters etc.

Quote: kewlj

The fact that dealers make minimum wager is not my problem. They chose that profession, not me. Am, I also required to compensate the McDonalds workers, the gas station cashier, the clerk at Walmart and every other minimum wage or low wage worker that I come in contact with? Is that my responsibility?

I know you are being rhetorical but a lot of liberals actually do think that it is our responsibility to indirectly compensate them through welfare, food stamps, and a higher minimum wage.

Quote: kewlj

My feelings aren't hurt, Beardgoat. And I am not ashamed of my position. If I was, I wouldn't freely admit that I don't often tip dealers.

The fact that dealers make minimum wager is not my problem. They chose that profession, not me. Am, I also required to compensate the McDonalds workers, the gas station cashier, the clerk at Walmart and every other minimum wage or low wage worker that I come in contact with? Is that my responsibility?

minimum wage should be the $12.50 or more. The min wage was created to change to adjust with inflation. The rate should be around $17+ this day.

I chose a job to be around people and let them forget their worries for awhile, allow them to unwind. Unfortunately, there is the downfalls with the job, the main one is people that gamble that shouldn't. But I can't parent them. Hopefully they will hit bottom soon enough, to turn their life around.

Quote: allinriverking

Teachers around here make between $60,000-80,000 a year for working 9 months of the year. There wages already are set to cover their efforts. If we just got base pay we would make around $12,000 a year. I would be all in favor of the house paying a $20 hr rate. But then service would lack eventually, and no one would go above or beyond their set duties as flipping cards. Same thing with teachers, have them earn 3/4's of their wages base on their efforts of going beyond, instead of just handing papers out for kids to read.

False. there is no state where 60k is the starting salary for a public shool teacher unless they have a Ph.D and are starting at the highest possible pay scale. California and New York are the highest paying states, in the city I live in starting salary is 37k and the next city over its 43k. the highest starting salary in the state is 50k.

By the way, I live in California and in my district the salary caps out at 89k. You have to work for around 10 years to get 60k.

17 an hour. you crazy. I like you, but you crazy!

Quote: OzzyOsbourne

False. there is no state where 60k is the starting salary for a public shool teacher unless they have a Ph.D and are starting at the highest possible pay scale. California and New York are the highest paying states, in the city I live in starting salary is 37k and the next city over its 43k. the highest starting salary in the state is 50k.

Come to the suburbs of Chicago, where the average teacher in the burbs has been teaching 15 years. They want the teachers to live in their neighborhoods, so the teachers are their neighbors. They are willing to over compensate so they can afford the neighborhood. You are talking about the city teachers, where they are not part of the neighborhood.

Quote: OzzyOsbourne

17 an hour. you crazy. I like you, but you crazy!

Research the inflation rate since the inception of minimum wage, and calculate it from what minimum wage was at inception.

Quote: allinriverking

Come to the suburbs of Chicago, where the average teacher in the burbs has been teaching 15 years. They want the teachers to live in their neighborhoods, so the teachers are their neighbors. They are willing to over compensate so they can afford the neighborhood. You are talking about the city teachers, where they are not part of the neighborhood.

Great! Become a teacher. Entertain the kids! And stop begging for a living. :-)

Kewl,

There are enough players that want the live interaction, always will be. And not to mention table game players that don't trust playing against computers.

Quote: kewlj

Great! Become a teacher. Entertain the kids! And stop begging for a living. :-)

You just don't get it. I enjoy my job. I am glad my pay is reflective of the quality of the job I perform, for the most part. Getting a non-tipper to tip, because I made them have fun, is the greatest.

Dunno why people complain about each individual that doesn't tip/tips less then the "minimum required". When you consider the average it works out to a decent amount per person. Just like the guy that delivered pizzas a few posts before I slung pies for a while and since it was close to an international airport I would get foreigners that would stiff me or give me the rounded up dollar amount (18 cents on a $19.82 order) out of ignorance or just being cheap but average tip per drive earned me a fair amount. This was due to the fact some tip more and made up the difference. I might be in the minority since I worked tip-based jobs but I wasn't sweating no tipping. I even told some customers "hey you don't have to tip me" since I forgot an order or took a very long time due to a screwed up route which wasn't my fault but the computer brought up an address that was outside our zone.

Considering most casinos nowadays are pooled tips the high roller tables probably get more tips that subsidize the minimum tables where a flea such as myself, even though tipping a good amount for my play, probably is considered a "cheapass" to the dealers.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

This is all we want while we are playing.

Being asked where I'm from and what I do are things I like to avoid while keeping a count :) I'm from +5 and need to up my bet and I hang drywall or nails or hangers for a living! I got 16 so I hope you bust the 6 showing lol.

First I guess I'm a compulsive tipper.

I can only remember two times when I didn't tip. There were probably more, but I don't remember.

Buzzard, fellow gamblers [ not kidding] I hope you will join me in this. Stiff the waitress if you want and even the snarky dealer.

One of the things I do is every time I see a guy cleaning the men's room I make a point of tipping them. No shit, there are some
underpaid people providing a service I'm glad about. Male gamblers at the urinals seem to not have the time to be accurate. I hate
a dirty restroom and piss around the johns. If you guys won't tip, at least try and improve your aim.

Riverperson, I'm glad you enjoy your work, you probably are fun to play. I know sometimes when I tip dealers I consider it a bribe.

If they try to make sure I win, I'll respond in kind. That's a good reason to tip. Again your probably funny, but I know at some tables

I so wished the dealer would just shut up. I'll tip for that as well. Especially when they get some loud mouth [usually young woman] all

fired up and they scream and shout when they win five bucks.

So I hope you'll pay attention when this happens and some old guy winces when the cackling siren goes off, he's probably part deaf or

has a hearing aid and that screaming is painful.

I gotta stop before I go off on teacher's.

Out of curiousity, when you see some indigent person or unlucky veteran asking for a hand out [hand-up] do you try and give generously?

If they are beggars then they are just doing their job as well.

Reading through this thread [no insult intended] at minimum wage, who pays for your medical care? Who's going to help that damaged vet

after doing their job, protecting our rights to complain about tips?

Quote: allinriverking

I'm a midwest dealer. We don't have dealers that say anything about if someone tips, or not, on the floor.

Out here, the players say it enough for the cheapskates to hear. They shame them, we don't have too.

Just out of curiosity—and without getting into specifics—do you make in the range of, say, Caesars & Bellagio dealers? Or more like Station Casinos dealers?

I know it's an intrusive question, but the answer gives me a better idea of where you're coming from. For example, if you're making as much as a dealer at Caesars, then you make a hell of a lot more than I do, and it's a little arrogant to compare your players to homeless people. OTOH, if your salary is at the Stations level, then I have a little more sympathy.

BTW, you want more tips? Tell your sour-faced co-workers to shape up. As far as my tips are concerned, those dealers are the ones who are costing you money (assuming you share tips).

Quote: allinriverking

I would be all in favor of the house paying a $20 hr rate. But then service would lack eventually, and no one would go above or beyond their set duties as flipping cards.

I hate to break the news to you, but this describes the majority of dealers on the Strip. At least the ones I've come into contact with, and I'm at a casino every other day. These type of dealers are the ones who are costing you money. Hell, even when players do tip them, you can barely get a 'Thank you' out of them.

Quote: allinriverking

If I see you are not tipping or if I hear you say you don't tip. You get the service of getting your cards. Nothing more.

If this is true, then I don't understand what the issue is.

allin, All I want is for the dealer to flip the cards. What else would I want or could they provide?

Quote: rainman

allin, All I want is for the dealer to flip the cards. What else would I want or could they provide?

This is why I like the young asian women dealers who don't speak much english. We trade banter but it is to a minimum and read my sig.

Quote: djatc

Considering most casinos nowadays are pooled tips the high roller tables probably get more tips that subsidize the minimum tables where a flea such as myself, even though tipping a good amount for my play, probably is considered a "cheapass" to the dealers.

Earlier in the year, I was playing craps and was down about $800. Then after the base dealer went on break, I happened to win back $90 (big whoop when you're down $800). Anyway, on my next bet I put down $1 for the dealers next to my $20 bet because—as I had mentioned earlier—I'll tip a buck here and there even when I'm losing. So the new dealer (who had just seen me win $90) kind of smirked and shook his head as if I was some sort of cheap ass.

I don't know about anyone else here, but this is the sort of behavior that pisses me off because it's a no-win situation for me. If I continue to NOT tip (when I'm down $700+), the idiot dealer would probably be thinking, "Man, what a cheapskate...he won $90 and won't tip!"

Yet when I do tip him, he smirks, shakes his head, and says to himself, "Man, what a cheapskate...he won $90 and only tipped $1!"

So basically, the only way to get in this guy's good graces is to give him a hefty tip, which I sure ain't gonna do when I'm down $700+. Like I said, a no-win situation.


EDIT: Oh yeah, and this was at one of the higher end Strip casinos where they make $80-90K per year. (Bastards make twice as much as the median salary in the US, yet they still b*tch about money)

Quote: 1BB

. She must of thought it was a tip as evidenced by the extra everything that she replenished the room with.

Now you know the advantages of early tipping of the housekeepers. Shower caps and Shampoos galore.

Its the same way with a prompt tip to a cocktail waitress... she will be back sooner and will remember you and maybe get you a better brand of booze or something.

Dealers, unfortunately, won't deal better cards, but they might pay closer attention and pause for a moment to give you some time to speak up.

Buffet tipping is low but it varies with how good the buffet is how good the drink service was. If the fresh orange juice machine was off, good bye tips.

Disney used to have cards showing tip calculations and would dock employee's expense accounts for over tipping. Same way with some casinos, you can tip the room service waiter but the casino cops the meal and the tip as separate items with separate standards.

If you don't want to tip, don't trek to Vegas.
If you are one of those guys who is in love with his car, you darn well better tip the valet parker.

I believe in tipping dealers, but, like many have stated, I believe it to be commensurate with services rendered.
Very easily, this thread could well be viewed as a study on customer service.

It is my belief that dealing is a profession, not simply a "job that one clocks in, works the shift, and then clocks out".
While it is true that companies typically pay the dealers less than minimum wage, I believe it should also be understood (by the dealers) that they are there for the opportunity to receive tips, not to take them for granted.

Getting back to the "profession", acting in a professional manner should go with the territory.
I have seen more than one dealer reprimanded for "hustling tokes". Unless so informed by their superiors, dealers rarely know for certain whether a player is winning or losing.

I too have had the unpleasurable experience of having a dealer roll their eyes, smirk, etc. at what seems to be a menial tip. If bad enough that I feel it offensive, I simply say something like "I'm sorry, did you not want that?" or "You can't accept tips here?"

I have also had the experience of having a dealer yell loud enough for the entire pit to hear about dropping a tip. Some players enjoy this type of behavior, while others do not.

Were I a dealer, I would consider it an integral duty to determine the types of individuals to which I'm dealing, and act accordingly.

I once had a lengthy conversation with an older dealer at one of the casinos I frequent.
Two things about this woman fascinated me:
1. Despite her age, she dealt with remarkable speed and efficiency. This woman is probably in her early-to-mid-sixties, yet she still pumps out what I would estimate to easily be in excess of 600 hands per hour in blackjack.
In addition, although I seldom play roulette, I observe it quite often during "breaks" in my action. I don't think I've ever seen a more efficient roulette dealer.
2. Despite her seemingly lack of personality and quiet game, she seemed to consistently drop more tips than other dealers, irregardless of the game being dealt.

One day I stopped playing, and I was waiting for my girlfriend to finish (slots). This lady was standing at a dead table a few tables away, so I asked if I could talk with her while I waited for my drink. No problem, as long as someone else didn't approach the table to play.
She was English, and had started at a club in London. "Broke in" there dealing roulette, but spent her first five years as a "mucker". In other words, she spent five years picking up chips and learning the game before ever picking up a ball. (Certainly explains the effecient roulette game.) Eventually worked her way into upper management.
When her (American) husband retired from the service, they moved back to the states and located in Las Vegas, where she spent another ten years dealing.
They are now located in the Midwest (husband's hometown).
I informed her that I had been intrigued with her for some time, although I had never actually played at her table. This raised her curiosity, so I asked her why she seemed to do well with tips compared to other dealers.
Being somewhat modest, she stated that her first casino (in London) did not allow tipping to the dealers. She commented that the company paid well, but the players certainly paid for it. Higher table minimums, and the dealers were constantly subject to performance reviews (game speed).
Upon moving to the US, she discovered that "dealing a strong game" generally led to being stationed on the higher-limit tables. One of the casinos at which she had worked allowed dealers to "keep their own", and the higher-limit areas were greatly coveted by the dealers.

"What about now? You have to share your tips with others."
"That's both good and bad. I get stiffed quite often, and have many nights when I'm appreciative of the 'toke pool'. Few things are more demeaning than watching someone literally win thousands without so much as a single tip. Novelty games with jackpots in particular. On the other hand, I often feel as if I'm pulling the weight of others (she called them "lumps"), and sometimes I sense that players tip less simply because they know it's not going directly to me."

"The last time I was here, I noticed you dealing to a guy playing several hundred a hand. None of my business whether he won or lost, but was he a tipper?"
"I don't recall the exact circumstance, but it doesn't matter if he did or not. People either tip or they don't. Some people always tip. Some people never tip. Some only tip if they win. Since I work for tips for a living, I do try to find out why someone doesn't tip, but only to determine if service is not to their approval. I make an attempt to determine the type of individual to which I am dealing, and take it from there. Bitching (yes, this English woman was Americanized enough to use that term) about lack of tips should be done in the dealer break areas, never in front of the players."

The cocktail waitress had taken over thirty minutes to bring my drink. When she finally brought it, I had one $25 chip left. I asked this dealer for two pink chips ($2.50) and four red chips. My drink cost $2.00, and as I was handing a pink chip to the waitress, I told the dealer to keep the rest of the change for the great conversation while I was waiting for the drink, even though she had not dealt to me.

Quote: rob45

so I asked her why she seemed to do well with tips compared to other dealers.

And, what was the answer?

Quote: chickenman

And, what was the answer?

As I mentioned, she seemed to be modest about it. She never admitted to "doing well"; that was simply my observation.

Were I to form my own conclusions, I would tend to believe that, based on her experience, more bets in a given timeframe generally equals more opportunities for a tip. Given her style of dealing, perhaps that is also her conclusion?

I am referencing a second article from my website in one day. I really don't want to be an annoyance to the Wizard or make this a publicity site for me but tipping hits home big time since I have worked as a waiter and deliveryman in my youth. So this is my take on the matter of tipping. The tip recommendations are outdated at the end of the piece because this was written some 12 years ago:

http://frankscoblete.com/articles/the-cumshaw-on-tipping/

When poker tournaments first started the question arose on how to compensate the dealers since they were only making minimum wage. It was a concensus among the players that the winners should leave a tip for the dealers. And that became the custom in poker tournaments. Several years later the Oceanside Card Club in Oceanside, California was looking for a way to promote their cardroom. They hired the legendary Johnny Moss to come play poker in Oceanside for a few months. They even put ads in the local papers "JOHNNY MOSS NOW PLAYING AT OCEANSIDE CARD CLUB." They decided to hold a poker tournament in Johnny's honor. They called it "THE JOHNNY MOSS OPEN." Johnny Moss won the tournament....then stiffed the dealers.

Quote: FleaStiff

Dealers, unfortunately, won't deal better cards, but they might pay closer attention and pause for a moment to give you some time to speak up.

This is one small benefit to tipping. If you forget your odds, for example, on craps, a tipping player is more likely to be reminded. Same for making a blatant basic strategy error on blackjack (e.g. hitting h15 against a 6).

As far as the aforementioned "lumps"; I was told of a guy who worked at one of my former properties. He was pissed because he didn't get promoted to dual-rate, so he told every customer who tipped that "he didn't want them". (this was a pool joint). It is people like this that make me glad I keep my own.

With all this said, I'm convinced that all employees were better off when the mob ran casinos and corporate America wasn't in the picture.

Quote:

You are the squeegy guy.

I just want to add, that for the record, if one of those bums by the side of the road ever did clean my windshield for me, I would gladly throw them a couple bucks. We have lots of them in Denver and I've never seen one with a bottle of Windex and a squeegee.

Here was a first time sight for me, I saw a Pit Boss bully the customer into tipping the dealer.

The guy pressed his bet to $125 at a $25 table and BAM... Blackjack!

Dealer pays him $187.50 and the pit boss says "Very nice... Two Feefty!(points to the tip box)"

Guy stares blankly adjusting his bet. Pit boss says "C'mon, two feefty!"

An on-looker informs the guy, "I think she wants you to tip her the pink one"

Guy says "Huh?" Pit boss goes "She give you blackjack, you give her pink chip!"

Guy finally gives the pink chip and the pit boss goes elsewhere as the dealer drops it in the box.


I'm sure the "Pit Boss" was probably a dealer currently or at one point in time. But that is still absurd to stop all activity until he tipped and keep pestering him like that.

Quote: FrankScoblete

I am referencing a second article from my website in one day. I really don't want to be an annoyance to the Wizard or make this a publicity site for me but tipping hits home big time since I have worked as a waiter and deliveryman in my youth. So this is my take on the matter of tipping. The tip recommendations are outdated at the end of the piece because this was written some 12 years ago:

http://frankscoblete.com/articles/the-cumshaw-on-tipping/

So an AP spreading $25 - $250 should be tipping around $30/hr according to your article, or else they aren't "good enough" to be an AP and should seek a job that pays them tips.

Sure.

Mr. Pink and crew distill the argument to its essence:

tipping

Quote: sabre

So an AP spreading $25 - $250 should be tipping around $30/hr according to your article, or else they aren't "good enough" to be an AP and should seek a job that pays them tips.

Sure.

I have often heard bosses discussing (in the pit) the possibility of someone being an advantage player.
Assuming you are discussing blackjack, here are a few questions I have overheard:

"Are they drinking?"
"Are they tipping?"
"What's the bet spread, and is it moving with the count?"
"Have you had surveillance on it?"

Just my opinion, but I think the AP is best served by at least putting something out every once in a while. Aside from potentially providing "cover" and reducing the amount of heat from the bosses, it could potentially yield more favorable playing conditions from the dealer (penetration).
Most houses seem to have a standard point when the shoe or decks end. But oftentimes I have witnessed those individuals who place dealer bets towards the end of the shoe if things have "went well for them", and some dealers, without even knowing it, penetrate deeper on succeeding shoes as a result.

Bet spread and surveillance are complex issues that have resulted in measures (and appropriate countermeasures) being developed over time.
The drinking is sort of a gray area, as not everyone desires to be all-inclusive pertaining to the "world of sin".

But the one thing that seems to be universally acknowledged in the casino world is the concept of tipping.
Dealers are complaining when we don't, and the bosses are trying to figure out WHY we don't.
Were I an AP, the last thing I would want to incur is increased heat from the bosses due to their speculation that I could possibly be trying to prevent cutting into any edge I might think I have.
If I get a Blackjack on a (relatively speaking) large bet, I'll either throw in a small tip or place a small bet for the dealer on the next hand.

I'm not gonna calculate percentages, expected values, or anything else that says "I need to tip this amount when I win this amount".
I'm simply gonna do everything in my power to convince the dealer (and boss) I'm just like everyone else- I'm there to take my shot at the casino and when things go well, I show gratitude. I certainly do not want to give the age-old impression of "us against them".
Relatively few individuals scrutinize the size of a tip in relation to bet size, win, etc. (A notable exception being jackpot payouts.) But everyone notices no tip whatsoever.

$30/hr? No doubt, that could be considered steep. But the concept is that not tipping anything at all could cause more grief for the AP than tipping small amounts on occasion.

Quote: BedWetterBetter

Here was a first time sight for me, I saw a Pit Boss bully the customer into tipping the dealer.

The guy pressed his bet to $125 at a $25 table and BAM... Blackjack!

Dealer pays him $187.50 and the pit boss says "Very nice... Two Feefty!(points to the tip box)"

Guy stares blankly adjusting his bet. Pit boss says "C'mon, two feefty!"

An on-looker informs the guy, "I think she wants you to tip her the pink one"

Guy says "Huh?" Pit boss goes "She give you blackjack, you give her pink chip!"

Guy finally gives the pink chip and the pit boss goes elsewhere as the dealer drops it in the box.


I'm sure the "Pit Boss" was probably a dealer currently or at one point in time. But that is still absurd to stop all activity until he tipped and keep pestering him like that.

Like in TV, when they say never break the fourth wall, they broke something. Tipping should be the elephant in the room nobody talks about or they lose for breaking the rules. It's so wrong for tipping to become begging.

Sabre, interesting. In general what would be the win rate for a card counter (a good one) with a $25 to $250 betting range? Six-decks? Two-decks? How much of their win-rate would a $25 or $30 tip cost them per hour? I hope I am not really off on this. That would be really embarrassing.

The guy who pushed the player to tip is totally unprofessional --- sounds Asian by the dialogue --- and should be told to stop.

For me, as my article indicates, I am a tipper --- nature and nurture I guess.

Quote: FrankScoblete

Sabre, interesting. In general what would be the win rate for a card counter (a good one) with a $25 to $250 betting range? Six-decks? Two-decks? How much of their win-rate would a $25 or $30 tip cost them per hour? I hope I am not really off on this. That would be really embarrassing.

The guy who pushed the player to tip is totally unprofessional --- sounds Asian by the dialogue --- and should be told to stop.

For me, as my article indicates, I am a tipper --- nature and nurture I guess.

I don't think a 1-10 spread is enough on a six deck game so that good counter must have his reasons.

There are many things to take into consideration including rules, penetration, hands per hour, the count used and wonging and with that information a sim could be run. In the absence of that I'm going to ballpark the win rate between $40 and $50 per hour. Anyone care to run a sim?

Getting away with that spread on a double deck game means that either the game is terrible or a back off is imminent.