Is it possible?

Since the begining of the game of blackjack there has been people finding ways to play better so as to beat the game, basic stratsgy card counting various ways of each.My question is this, has all the math been done? are all the calculations over? or is someone going to come along with a new way to beat this game just as thorpe did back in the day?Is it possible? please dont make fun of my spelling and punctuation its a sore subject. sincerely the rainman.

Quote: rainman

Since the begining of the game of blackjack there has been people finding ways to play better so as to beat the game, basic stratsgy card counting various ways of each.My question is this, has all the math been done? are all the calculations over? or is someone going to come along with a new way to beat this game just as thorpe did back in the day?Is it possible? please dont make fun of my spelling and punctuation its a sore subject. sincerely the rainman.

New counting strategies can always be devised, however it really doesn't change anything. Casino's will be able to establish that you are counting cards. Simple as that...

Think of how long all the math had been done on a simple coin toss... then along came Professor Persi Diaconis of Stanford to tell us that no, its not 50:50 its more like 51:49.

More gets discovered but the incremental knowledge is often less significant.

Quote: rainman

Since the begining of the game of blackjack there has been people finding ways to play better so as to beat the game, basic stratsgy card counting various ways of each.My question is this, has all the math been done? are all the calculations over? or is someone going to come along with a new way to beat this game just as thorpe did back in the day?Is it possible? please dont make fun of my spelling and punctuation its a sore subject. sincerely the rainman.

It's probably a moot point. Casino counter measures will always be one step ahead of all but a tiny handful of card counters. Blackjack has been very good to me over the years but I'm glad I am not starting out now. The future ain't what it used to be!

I have no problem reading and understanding your posts. There were and are many bad spellers who have been successful. You are in good company with John F. Kennedy, Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Ernest Hemingway and Alfred Mosher Butts. Who was Butts? He invented a game called Scrabble.

I did not know (and still don't believe) that Einstein was a bad speller. I am pretty sure Franklin wasn't. Perhaps, you were thinking of his wife Deborah (she, by some accounts, was). Not sure about the others you mentioned.
Either way, even if you know of someone famous doing something badly, it is in no way an excuse or an encouragement for you to do the same. Steve Jobs, who has practically invented the 21st century, was (by his own admission) an asshole and a jerk. So what?

I think, bad spelling is just a poor taste and a lack of class. It is not hard to spell correctly (invest in a dictionary!).
Especially, on a computer. If you can't figure out how to use a spelling corrector (my 6 year old daughter has), ask someone to help you. If spelling correctly on paper isn't hard (invest in a dictionary!), doing so on a computer is simply effortless. I therefore take posts, with many spelling errors (not typos) in them as a sign of disrespect to the reader. If you don't care to pay attention to those little red lines underlining your text, why should I care to read your rants in the first place?

The math to analyse the game has more or less been fully explored. Not just basic strategy and card counting but also other ap techniques like hole-carding, shuflle tracking etc.
That does not mean that there will be no further analsysis of the game.
Casinos introduce new rule variations and side bets over time which need to be analysed mathematically.
But the tools of analsying these remain the same: combinatorial analysis and/or simulation to get basic strategy and devise counting methods (ie devising specialised counts for side bets)

Quote: weaselman

If you don't care to pay attention to those little red lines underlining your text, why should I care to read your rants in the first place?

Not all browsers do that.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Not all browsers do that.

Really? Which one(s) don't?
Anyway, is it too much of an effort to get get a normal browser? Does it cost an arm and a leg?

Anyone who cares so much about spelling on a forum has an issue of superiority.

Same thing with paragraphing.

If you don't like it, don't read/respond.

Quote: weaselman

Really? Which one(s) don't?
Anyway, is it too much of an effort to get get a normal browser? Does it cost an arm and a leg?

Internet Explorer 8, which came with Windows XP Pro and is on the computer on my desk at work, doesn't do it. Or if it does, I can't find the control to turn it on.

And I'm not authorized to install anything. I'm just happy they let me use it for personal stuff...



Safari, which came with my Apple, does it by default. But that's home.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Internet Explorer 8, which came with Windows XP Pro and is on the computer on my desk at work, doesn't do it. Or if it does, I can't find the control to turn it on.

here ...

I guess I need to repeat this:

Quote: DJTeddyBear

And I'm not authorized to install anything.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I guess I need to repeat this:

Try it. It should not require any authorization. Click on "Add to Explorer", and you should be all set.

Quote: weaselman

Try it. It should not require any authorization.

You seem to assume that he doesn't care about keeping his job.

Quote: rainman

Since the begining of the game of blackjack there has been people finding ways to play better so as to beat the game, basic stratsgy card counting various ways of each.My question is this, has all the math been done?

"All" the math? No, and I doubt it ever will be, as trying to crunch the numbers at a 7-hand table (with all player cards face up) for every possible combination of 15 face-up cards would take forever to do. Maybe something like a phone app could do it quickly, but I doubt the casinos would allow that.

Quote: Doc

You seem to assume that he doesn't care about keeping his job.

No, I assume, that if his job tolerates him spending time on a gambling forums (and I don't mean it in a bad way, I do that too), then there is a really (and I mean, really-really-really-really) good chance, they will neither know or care about him adding a tiny but extremely useful plugin to the browser.
When windoze users talk about "not being authorized to install", that usually means that they do not have administrative rights on the computer, so, what I am saying is that I don't think you need administrative rights to install an IE add-on.

At the risk of undoing the double-hijacking the thread, yes, it's likely many new AP (i.e. not cheating) techniques will be developed for beating blackjack. Many, and probably most, of them will have a significantly higher advantage than the meager advantage provided by counting.

It's a bit of broad statement, but I suppose you could say the math on the game is pretty much complete. However, there are many AP techniques right now that don't rely solely on the math of the game such as sequencing, shuffle tracking, front-loading dealers etc. If you're interested in other methods of beating the game you should check out Beyond Counting by James Grosjean.

New techniques that can beat existing games appear sometimes. In the many years I've been employed in Table Games I've seen several strong plays that I would have never even begun to consider. Most of these are closely guarded secrets in the community. Sure, the mathematicians will analyze card counting to death and it's widely known but the more recent and obscure techniques aren't going to be posted anywhere. They'll instead be analyzed by the person that discovered them and maybe a few close friends.

As technology advances we're also seeing some amazing (and amazingly illegal) new cheating techniques. Prepare to get your mind blow if you haven't seen this: PH Casinos Baccarat Cheats

Quote: 1BB

It's probably a moot point. Casino counter measures will always be one step ahead of all but a tiny handful of card counters.

Yes, the vast majority of counters don't pose a real threat to casinos. The biggest threat are the plays that have never been seen before and therefore counter measures for the plays don't exist yet. New, strange plays are an out of context problem. Imagine the casino is a castle in the 14th century and the card counters are some guys with hammers chipping at the walls. Then someone drives up in a tank.

Quote: PopCan

As technology advances we're also seeing some amazing (and amazingly illegal) new cheating techniques. Prepare to get your mind blow if you haven't seen this: PH Casinos Baccarat Cheats

I had not seen that. That is nuts!

Quote: AcesAndEights

I had not seen that. That is nuts!

If I can drag my metaphor out a bit: That collective gasp around the 2:30 mark is the same gasp you'd hear from the archers on the castle wall as the tank drove up. That was not something casino would have prepared for.

Quote: PopCan

If I can drag my metaphor out a bit: That collective gasp around the 2:30 mark is the same gasp you'd hear from the archers on the castle wall as the tank drove up. That was not something casino would have prepared for.

Fo shiz. I'm really surprised I hadn't heard about this cheating scam given how much I read about casinos and AP around the internet.