Our cash back and comp system.

This is not an attempt to market or solicit business. If the Wizard feels that's the case feel free to delete the this thread. I will not be offended.

Here's a brief description of some of our player's club benefits. I would like to know if you think it's fair, poor, generous or sucks. Also, any ideas or comments would be appreciated.

We have a three tiered card system, let's call them Gold, Silver and Bronze.
All levels get .25% of coin-in back in points. This is redeemable for cash. There are various double and triple point days.
In addition to points for cashback you also earn comps.

Bronze card members get .33% back in comps. $3 in coin-in you earn .01 in comp.
Silver card members get .66% back in comps. $3 coin-in earns .02 comp.
Gold card members get 1% back in comps. $3 in coin-in earns .03 comp.

All comps are player transparent i.e. you can tell exactly how much you have available in comps at each machine or at a kiosk. It is redeemable at each point of sale. Comps can be redeemed for food, beverage, golf or hotel rooms. We also send out free play and room offers based on play history.

I hate "secret" comp systems where you have to find a host and negotiate your value to them. That's why we changed to the transparent system. Our nearest competitor has a secret comp system but they will be making changes within the next year. I expect them to do something similar to what we do now. Any comments or suggestions are appreciated.

Mark

That's a very fair and transparent system, and generous for Michigan. I think that is comparable with the Kewadin joints which should be your main concern. As I recall, you don't have any decent video poker in your casino (boo!), so you don't need to worry about those comp-suckers. All-in-all, one of the better systems I've seen.

You're correct on both accounts. Kewadin has the same cash back structure but the old school comp system. I'm told by one of their hosts that they are going to change their system to make it easier for customers to get comps within the year. I suspect they are going to go to more of a transparent system like we have.

You are also correct about our video poker. Our's is not the worst, but certainly not the best either. I wish there were more video poker players to cater too. We would definitely try and grab that crowd. When I look at the more mature gaming markets and the amount of video poker in the locals joints I'm envious. In the more mature markets when the choice was between watching three reels spin or playing video poker, video poker was the more attractive option to many. I think because the bonus video slots came out before the newer markets were developed a lot of new players never even tried video poker. They view the bonus slots as more entertaining options.

Mark

Mark -

So you're a casino executive, with the power to change, or at least recommend changes, to your system? I hope you don't get beat up too bad, but I have a feeling there's gonna be a lot of hostility in the replies. Including my own.

While you do a good job of defining the earnings, it appears to be geared towards slot players. How do table game players earn? What about poker players?

Because I am a low-level table game and poker player, I never ranked very high, and never understood how I earn. Therefore, I can't compare what you're offering, and have abstained from voting.

On the other hand, my wife is primarily a slot player, usually at the $1 level, but occasionally hitting a $5 machine. As a result she is usually at a much higher level in whatever casino's system you care to mention.

This, by itself, doesn't bother me. Although I wish there were ways to combine our accounts, I do get that she is more valuable to the casino and gets treated better than I do.

What DOES bother me is when certain perks cannot be shared. I have three specific examples. I have experenced each of these things at several different casino companies.

1 - She can go to the VIP dining room, and can bring me as her guest. I cannot go without her. There are times when we want to eat seperately, or where I want to eat and she wants to skip a meal. If I want to go to the VIP room, I need to drag her off her slot machine to get me in. Ditto for buffet discounts. I would have assumed that the casino would prefer that she stay at her machine.

2 - She qualifies for free Valet parking, but this is verified and awarded when picking up the car. She would rather continue playing for a few minutes while I wait for the car to be delivered. Again, I'd think the casino would want that too, but she is needed at the point of requesting the car.

3 - She qualifies for room offers. There have been times where she didn't want to wait on the check-in line, so I would attempt to check in without her. I have offered to have her come to check-in when it wasn't busy, and to pay the full rack room rate if she never showed up. I would even tell the front desk clerk that the reason is because she's already in the casino, here's her player number, look it up. Can't be done. Mind you that my wife would put my name on the reservation, and tell the reservation person that this was why.

I doubt the Wiz will be offended. But I would like to know what casino this is for. I haven't followed your other threads.

It looks good, but I'd like to know what levels it takes to get to "Silver" and "Gold", and what it takes to stay there, before I cheer too much.

I think it's better than most (of course, if the average return of the slots are on par with other casinos).

Are accepted offers for rooms and free play deducted from a player's earned comp total?

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Mark -

While you do a good job of defining the earnings, it appears to be geared towards slot players. How do table game players earn? What about poker players?

It is geared more towards slot players simply because that's where the majority of our revenue comes from. Table players do not earn points or cashback. They do earn comp based on the traditional avg bet x time played x our estimated HA x 20-25% rebate. Nonetheless, table players always seem to not get as much return as slot players. Poker players earn at a fixed rate of $1.00 per hour.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

1 - She can go to the VIP dining room, and can bring me as her guest. I cannot go without her. There are times when we want to eat seperately, or where I want to eat and she wants to skip a meal. If I want to go to the VIP room, I need to drag her off her slot machine to get me in. Ditto for buffet discounts. I would have assumed that the casino would prefer that she stay at her machine.

2 - She qualifies for free Valet parking, but this is verified and awarded when picking up the car. She would rather continue playing for a few minutes while I wait for the car to be delivered. Again, I'd think the casino would want that too, but she is needed at the point of requesting the car.

3 - She qualifies for room offers. There have been times where she didn't want to wait on the check-in line, so I would attempt to check in without her. I have offered to have her come to check-in when it wasn't busy, and to pay the full rack room rate if she never showed up. I would even tell the front desk clerk that the reason is because she's already in the casino, here's her player number, look it up. Can't be done. Mind you that my wife would put my name on the reservation, and tell the reservation person that this was why.

We are not big enough to have a VIP dining room or valet so I can't really address that. Although it's frowned upon, why don't you have your wife use your player's card until you reach VIP status also? I'm not sure how hard it is to achieve the levels where you play. You should be able to check in and have your wife stop by sometime when it's convenient for her so they know she's really there.

Quote: Ayecarumba

Are accepted offers for rooms and free play deducted from a player's earned comp total?

Nope. We use a secret magic formula to determine how much beyond our published benefits we give back.

Mark

Mark -

Thanks for letting me bend your ear.

---

I originally didn't want to name names, but what the heck....

I've experienced all 3 issues at Showboat and Borgata. I've experienced some of them at some of the Caesars other properties in AC as well as Vegas, and at Foxwoods.

On the flip side, I tried the check-in dance at Mohegan Sun, and was immediately given the green light.

---

As far as using each others card goes, we worry what will happen if we get caught.

---

I mention my problems just to let you know that it's not just about how easy it is to earn the perks, but how easy it is to use them.

Quote: Ayecarumba

Are accepted offers for rooms and free play deducted from a player's earned comp total?

Quote: marksolberg

Nope. We use a secret magic formula to determine how much beyond our published benefits we give back.

Then your comps are superior to most other programs.

deleted

Quote: marksolberg

This is not an attempt to market or solicit business. If the Wizard feels that's the case feel free to delete the this thread. I will not be offended.

Since you are not advertising an internet casino to rival Bovada, I would say you there is no problem, but you should post in the kiosk, where you can advertise freely. I think many members of the forum would like to hear an executive of a small casino talk frankly about their business practices.

I'll chime in and add something to this...
The BEST I can find (which I play frequently) gives me this:
Their card doesn't have "tiers", however, higher players get more/better offers
I put in $20k per month, and I get the following:
3 Free Nights in a 7 day period, ALWAYS (in other words, I could LIVE there, just pay three nights, stay free, and repeat)
$400 a month free play
.335% earned comps
9/6 JoB at any denom/variant I want it (single/3/5/10play)
So, I think your program sounds good overall.

I think it sounds reasonable on the surface but may be a bit stingy depending on the average slot payback percentage.

If your average payback is 95% your comp reinvestment percentage is:
Bronze: 11.6%
Silver: 18.2%
Gold: 25%

Since you mentioned your VP is mediocre and cashback is basically a hard comp versus Table Games' soft comps I'm going to peg your expected average payback at around 92%. This would make your reinvestment percentage:
Bronze: 10.3%
Silver: 14.5%
Gold: 18.75%

Compared to Table Games' 20-25% reinvestment that doesn't sound particularly great, even taking into account cashback versus soft comps. I'd also like to note you couldn't afford such a large spread in point distribution between Bronze and Gold unless you were really screwing over the Bronze members. I'm all for aspiration marketing, but one-third the points for Bronze members? Ouch.

Why don't you level out the reinvestment percentages between tiers to something like 10%/12%/14% and instead reward your gold members with other benefits such as private events, invite only gold tournaments, partnerships with local businesses, etc? Comp points can be accrued at your competitors, show your guests they should come to you because of benefits only you offer.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Because I am a low-level table game and poker player, I never ranked very high, and never understood how I earn.

DJ, like Mark said your estimated value to the casino is:

[Hands per Hour] x [Hours Played] x [Average Bet] x [House Edge] = EV

You comp value is usually 15-30% of your EV. A $10 bettor on a typical BJ game for an hour might have a comp value of:

50hph x 1hr x $10 x 1.5% = $7.50ev x 20% = $1.50 comps per hour.

If you tell me your average bet and game I can give you a rough range of your expect comp earnings.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

On the other hand, my wife is primarily a slot player, usually at the $1 level, but occasionally hitting a $5 machine. As a result she is usually at a much higher level in whatever casino's system you care to mention.

From the rest of your post your wife sounds like a pretty hardcore player. Given that, she might be getting around 800 spins per hour. At $3 a spin that'd be $2,400 in coin-in per hour. At 95% payback that's an expected value of $120/hr for the casino. In order to get the equivalent hourly EV at the BJ game above you'd need to bet $160 a hand. Imagining your wife a black chip bettor might help you understand why she earns so much.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

What DOES bother me is when certain perks cannot be shared.

I'm with you on that. I can't stand when casinos don't allow for spouses to share a card or at least the benefits.

Seems simple and straightforward, though obviously "slot player oriented". If Silverton can give Table Games players BOTH TG points AND slot points, perhaps you can too.

As for some poor guy who can't get his car, some casinos offer a physically remote Valet Swipe option. Swipe now, show up in thirty minutes.

As for a VIP room dining companion... have the wife take a casino executive to dinner in the VIP room: then send photographs to the Executives wife. That executive's wife will see the policy is changed but fast!!!

Quote: PopCan

Imagining your wife a black chip bettor might help you understand why she earns so much.

Oh, I already understand. And I'm not complaning about that part.

My complaint is this: For those sepcific perks where I DO benefit, why can't I benefit by myself, as long as she is already in the casino at the same time?

I.E. Wouldn't the casino want her to stay at her slot machine, rather than be my escort while I go to the VIP dining room?

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Mark -

So you're a casino executive, with the power to change, or at least recommend changes, to your system? I hope you don't get beat up too bad, but I have a feeling there's gonna be a lot of hostility in the replies. Including my own.

While you do a good job of defining the earnings, it appears to be geared towards slot players. How do table game players earn? What about poker players?

Because I am a low-level table game and poker player, I never ranked very high, and never understood how I earn. Therefore, I can't compare what you're offering, and have abstained from voting.

On the other hand, my wife is primarily a slot player, usually at the $1 level, but occasionally hitting a $5 machine. As a result she is usually at a much higher level in whatever casino's system you care to mention.

This, by itself, doesn't bother me. Although I wish there were ways to combine our accounts, I do get that she is more valuable to the casino and gets treated better than I do.

What DOES bother me is when certain perks cannot be shared. I have three specific examples. I have experenced each of these things at several different casino companies.

1 - She can go to the VIP dining room, and can bring me as her guest. I cannot go without her. There are times when we want to eat seperately, or where I want to eat and she wants to skip a meal. If I want to go to the VIP room, I need to drag her off her slot machine to get me in. Ditto for buffet discounts. I would have assumed that the casino would prefer that she stay at her machine.

2 - She qualifies for free Valet parking, but this is verified and awarded when picking up the car. She would rather continue playing for a few minutes while I wait for the car to be delivered. Again, I'd think the casino would want that too, but she is needed at the point of requesting the car.

3 - She qualifies for room offers. There have been times where she didn't want to wait on the check-in line, so I would attempt to check in without her. I have offered to have her come to check-in when it wasn't busy, and to pay the full rack room rate if she never showed up. I would even tell the front desk clerk that the reason is because she's already in the casino, here's her player number, look it up. Can't be done. Mind you that my wife would put my name on the reservation, and tell the reservation person that this was why.

I'm in the same situation as you. I'm a low roller on the tables and my wife is a slot player. What we started doing years ago was, I register with the players club at whatever casino we're at and I get two cards. She uses my card. We haven't had a single issue with any casino yet. If she wins a jackpot they don't care who's players card is in the machine, they just want her ID. It also makes it easier on both of us because she doesn't want to have to do anything but play the machines. I handle all of the business side of it like booking flights and reservations.

The only VIP lounge I've dealt with is Harrah's Diamond lounge and they have never once had a problem with her entering using her husbands card. And the few times we've played at the tables together they just don't rate her play. I know that the practice is frowned upon by the casinos, but really, what are they gonna do? We can lose our money just as easy in another casino.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

The Bay Mills Casino in Brimley Michigan. Small joint but nice. Nice scenery in the U.P.

With the worst website in the world. It's embarrassing but we are now working to correct it.

Mark

Quote: TIMSPEED

I'll chime in and add something to this...
The BEST I can find (which I play frequently) gives me this:
Their card doesn't have "tiers", however, higher players get more/better offers
I put in $20k per month, and I get the following:
3 Free Nights in a 7 day period, ALWAYS (in other words, I could LIVE there, just pay three nights, stay free, and repeat)
$400 a month free play
.335% earned comps
9/6 JoB at any denom/variant I want it (single/3/5/10play)
So, I think your program sounds good overall.

Timspeed,
When you say 20k per month are you referring to coin-in?

Mark

Quote: marksolberg

Timspeed,
When you say 20k per month are you referring to coin-in?
Mark

Yes that's correct.
I know a lot of the secret formulas for the casino I play at because I'm there often enough that I look at their screens when they're typing stuff in...
I know a lot of it is based on time/Daily-Average-Theo...
So I like to put my play in on two days a month (they give you a hint, giving you two free play redemptions per month) and play 10 hours on a single-line 50c machine.

Quote: marksolberg

With the worst website in the world. It's embarrassing but we are now working to correct it.

Mark

My favorite thing about your casino is that when I asked for a bourbon and ginger, the waitress gave me bourbon and Vernor's. GENIUS!

Also, it was free.

Quote: TIMSPEED

I'll chime in and add something to this...
The BEST I can find (which I play frequently) gives me this:
Their card doesn't have "tiers", however, higher players get more/better offers
I put in $20k per month, and I get the following:
3 Free Nights in a 7 day period, ALWAYS (in other words, I could LIVE there, just pay three nights, stay free, and repeat)
$400 a month free play
.335% earned comps
9/6 JoB at any denom/variant I want it (single/3/5/10play)
So, I think your program sounds good overall.

Timspeed,
You are getting very good benefits there. Assuming perfect play your expected loss would be $100/month. You're getting at least $470 in benefit without even including the room nights. If you were playing here I would estimate your rewards to be $50 cash, $90 free play, $200 comp (after $44,000 coin-in to reach our top level), and two room nights each week. However, we don't offer 9/6 JOB, off the top of my head our best poker is about 98.25% including progressives.

Mark

Quote: teddys

My favorite thing about your casino is that when I asked for a bourbon and ginger, the waitress gave me bourbon and Vernor's. GENIUS!

Also, it was free.

I think Vernor's is a midwest thing. Glad you got what you wanted. PM me if you feel like doing some secret shopping for me.

Mark

deleted

Quote: PopCan

I think it sounds reasonable on the surface but may be a bit stingy depending on the average slot payback percentage.

Our payback is better than the Strip but not as good as Downtown. I honestly believe we are the highest return in Michigan.

Mark