Casino Chip of the Day

State: Missouri
City: St. Louis
Casino: River City

River City is the last of the Missouri Casinos represented in my current collection. I hope to add most of the others some day soon, but "soon" got farther away when I had to ditch my plans for a Missouri trip this coming July.

In spite of what the chip says, this casino is really located in Lemay, MO, seven or eight miles south of downtown St. Louis, though Google Maps seems to suggest that Lemay itself is in St. Louis. The casino belongs to Pinnacle Entertainment and opened in March 2010, using a 1904 World's Fair theme.

This is a really nice casino complex – nice enough that when my wife and I visited last July, I posted a brief comment about it in this thread, even though I wasn't posting chips during that trip. Tiltpoul replied to my post, calling the place "swanky" and saying, "River City is too nice of a casino for the area." I'm not quite sure whether he meant too nice for Lemay or too nice for all of St. Louis. In either case, Pinnacle owns both River City and Lumière Place, two of the nicest, if not the two nicest casinos in the area.

We made our stop at River City just as we entered the metropolitan area on our drive up from Tunica. We stopped there for gaming/chip collecting and for a nice dinner at Lewey Nine's before heading to the west side to our hotel. I managed to come out just a little ahead at the River City craps table, making it one of just two St. Louis area casinos (along with Ameristar) in which my gambling results were favorable. And that includes two casinos on the Illinois side of the river.

The chip shown below is a white RHC Paulson with three wide, triangular edge inserts in pink, blue, and yellow. The center inlay is mostly white with a faint wash background that I think must be a floral arrangement. Other than that, the inlay just has the casino name, the denomination, and the city/state.

UV light shows that the pink edge insert fluoresces, while none of the other clay parts do. It also reveals the center inlay contains a hidden image of the repeated casino name arranged in a wave pattern. I have to admit that I can't tell whether there is any "error" on this one or not. Nothing is really obvious to me, but the two center letters of "CITY" are formed so similarly that they could be swapped in most any of the cases without my being able to say one way or the other.

Here's my River City chip. It's a Paulson RHC, like Doc's. That seems to be the chip-of-choice in Missouri.

This is easily the most upscale casino between Las Vegas and Chicago (Rivers). Lumiere might be second, depending on how you feel about Ameristar in Black Hawk, Sandia in Albuquerque, or Mystic Lake in Minnesota. I tend to agree that River City is out of place in the Saint Louis market, but that seems to be somewhat of a theme for Pinnacle properties (see also: Belterra, L'auberge du Lac). To put this in Las Vegas context, if the M was in Saint Louis it'd be River City. If Boulder Station was in Saint Louis, it'd be Ameristar or Hollywood. So there's a sizable quality gap between this property and the others. There's not a great comparison for Lumiere Place - Hardrock is close, or Palms.

Edit: having looked at a map (no excuse for not doing that earlier), Beau Rivage, Gold Strike, and Harrah's New Orleans are all west of Chicago. They deserve to be in the quality discussion as well.

Quote: Doc

State: Missouri
City: St. Louis
Casino: River City

UV light shows that the pink edge insert fluoresces, while none of the other clay parts do. It also reveals the center inlay contains a hidden image of the repeated casino name arranged in a wave pattern.

Could the "wave" simply be warping due to heat encountered during manufacturing, when the image is bonded to the chip?

I don't think it is a warpage issue, though it may just be an illusion. The styling with the tail of the R wrapping under the C makes that portion of the name look fatter, like the swell of a wave. Then the shape and spacing of individual letters makes the whole section of repeated "City" followed by a space less densely printed than the repeated "River" section. That gives what looks to me like diagonal bands of light and dark from upper left to lower right. Those leave me with the impression of waves on water, too.

Quote: rdw4potus

This is easily the most upscale casino between Las Vegas and Chicago (Rivers). Lumiere might be second, depending on how you feel about Ameristar in Blackhawk, Sandia in Albuquerque, or Mystic Lake in Minnesota. I tend to agree that River City is out of place in the Saint Louis market, but that seems to be somewhat of a theme for Pinnacle properties (see also: Belterra, L'auberge du Lac). To put this in Las Vegas context, if the M was in Saint Louis it'd be River City. If Boulder Station was in Saint Louis, it'd be Ameristar or Hollywood. So there's a sizable quality gap between this property and the others. There's not a great comparison for Lumiere Place - Hardrock is close, or Palms.

I'd actually put River City on the level of the Wynn or Bellagio (decor-wise; obviously, not amenity/hotel-wise). It is just really damn nice. They did the World's Fair theme really well. Great buffet, too.

Quote: teddys

I'd actually put River City on the level of the Wynn or Bellagio (decor-wise; obviously, not amenity/hotel-wise). It is just really damn nice. They did the World's Fair theme really well. Great buffet, too.

Did you just back-handedly say that the M doesn't have a great buffet? Them's fightin' words! :-)

But, yes, I agree that considering only the food, decor, and floorplan/layout/"actual casino" then River City is on par with the best properties in the country. But the top-tier strip properties also have top-tier spas and hotels and boutique shopping. River City doesn't. So I tried to find a property that fit the balance that they do have, and decided on M. Aria would probably have worked, too, except for the hotel comparison. It's tricky because River City does have a theme - our Vegas choices really don't - and they've done it very well. But really, if we're fighting about whether this casino is more like the M or more like the Wynn, it should be blatantly obvious that River City is a fantastic establishment.

Are the prices also "Wynn-like"?

Quote: Ayecarumba

Are the prices also "Wynn-like"?

Yes, but in a strangely Pinnacle way. I bought a sandwich and cookie from the deli, and it was $17. Then they sent me a mailer offering a free room any night with no blackouts. My play was about 40 minutes of $15 BJ. I lost $10. So, the prices are high but also highly adjustable. Have you been to any of Pinnacle's other properties? Belterra in IN and L'Auberge du Lac in LA both reacted to my play in the same way. They're both in the middle of nowhere, so I may never be back - but if I do return, I can recoup my initial losses by using just one of the dozens of offers that they send.

Quote: rdw4potus

Yes, but in a strangely Pinnacle way. I bought a sandwich and cookie from the deli, and it was $17. Then they sent me a mailer offering a free room any night with no blackouts. My play was about 40 minutes of $15 BJ. I lost $10. So, the prices are high but also highly adjustable. Have you been to any of Pinnacle's other properties? Belterra in IN and L'Auberge du Lac in LA both reacted to my play in the same way. They're both in the middle of nowhere, so I may never be back - but if I do return, I can recoup my initial losses by using just one of the dozens of offers that they send.

Thanks for the info. I have not been to any Pinnacle properties. I tried to follow highway signs to Belterra several years ago, but gave up when the signs ran out without directing seekers to an off ramp.

It is odd that the Food prices are so out of wack with the room prices, but they may be accounted for differently. $17 for a sandwich and a cookie is way out of line though.

River City does not have a hotel, so it is unlikely you got a room offer from them. ;)

They are one of the few casinos that will pay a gaming coupon the full value PLUS your winnings. So a $25 free bet is worth $25. They will refund $500 of your losses. I played there and managed (surprise!) to lose $500 at BOTH slots and table games. They gave me my rebate in table play, even though I would have preferred slots (less hassle). I managed to parlay it into about $350 or so. Meh.

Belterra sent me that one night free offer, and that was it. Nothing really valuable after that. Always got much more from HSI and Grand Vic/Rising Star.

Quote: Ayecarumba

It is odd that the Food prices are so out of wack with the room prices, but they may be accounted for differently. $17 for a sandwich and a cookie is way out of line though.

I mentioned that my wife and I had a fine dinner at Lewy Nine's (which I'm guessing is a reference to a St. Louis baseball team). I think I had the grilled salmon, and she had the chicken parmesan, plus beverages, tax, and tip. The total bill was just under $40, which isn't out of line at all.

Quote: Doc

It was, and I assume still is, a very nice casino, and it is now known as Hollywood Casino St. Louis. Based (I assume) on my having played at that establishment last July, I have been receiving lots of mailers from the Hollywood Casino. I did lose $100 playing craps at this Harrah's in just a 30-minute session – my third losing session of the day – but that doesn't seem to be an adequate level of action to generate the amount of attention I have been receiving from the Hollywood. I'm wondering whether the Hollywood is so desperate for business that they need to keep soliciting a low roller like me.

I just used my first comped room offer ever at Hollywood last night; I forgot to get a chip though. :( They have gave me more than I should generally receive as well I think. In the Nov. gaming numbers, they slipped almost 10% vs. Harrah's Nov. 2011. They had a few glitches with their opening that ticked a lot of people off. I think they are starting to recover now though.

Quote: teddys

River City does not have a hotel, so it is unlikely you got a room offer from them. ;)

They are one of the few casinos that will pay a gaming coupon the full value PLUS your winnings. So a $25 free bet is worth $25. They will refund $500 of your losses. I played there and managed (surprise!) to lose $500 at BOTH slots and table games. They gave me my rebate in table play, even though I would have preferred slots (less hassle). I managed to parlay it into about $350 or so. Meh.

They are working on a hotel though. They recently completed a parking garage to help free up room for it. The property is really, really nice, and I would play there a lot more if I lived closer to there. Comparing the gaming floor decor to Wynn isn't that much of a stretch. Definitely the nicest casino I have been in outside of Vegas.

I also abused the $500 loss rebate promo pretty hard last year. I dropped about $350 while racking up about $2500 coin-in (a lot of it at dollar 8/5 Bonus Poker). I grinded about 95% of the loss back though. Their mistake is that they gave tons of future offers for me based on my play that day. Since I'm in the metro area, I collected A LOT of them. I probably got an extra $100 free play and $100 in "mycash" with minimial future play. If you play there regularly, you should use "mycash" to pay for food when possible since it's worth double vs. slot play. I would often use it at the 1904 Beerhouse since you can also use "mycash" to pay for the beer since it's outside of the casino.

I usually get Old Rasputin Russian Imperial Stout (9% ABV). It only costs you $2.75 of "myCash".

Quote: teddys

River City does not have a hotel, so it is unlikely you got a room offer from them. ;)

Belterra sent me that one night free offer, and that was it. Nothing really valuable after that. Always got much more from HSI and Grand Vic/Rising Star.

Hmmm...I was SURE it was River City, but I honestly didn't pay much attention since I wasn't going to use it. I wonder if they have an agreement with a nearby hotel and/or Lumiere for housing players. Or maybe the offer itself was just from Lumiere.

FWIW, I only received one offer from Grand Vic, never anything from Rising Star. But HSI and Belterra have been nice regardless of play. Though HSI has dried up as of late and been replaced by Caesars Windsor. Frustrating since I live 20 miles from Chester and visit Louisville 4 to 6 times per year but I don't know when/if I'll ever return to detroit.

If you make a post Doc you will finally have this thread tied for 2nd on the top threads. ;)

Quote: kenarman

If you make a post Doc ...

Who, me? We've been there before. The two big things in that ranking are that:

1. (best thing) this thread does an excellent job of avoiding conflicts and nastiness between members, and
2. there is this much participation without the Wizard even being involved himself. I don't think he has followed this thread since the first week.

Quote: rdw4potus

Hmmm...I was SURE it was River City, but I honestly didn't pay much attention since I wasn't going to use it. I wonder if they have an agreement with a nearby hotel and/or Lumiere for housing players.

You may have got the offer from River City to stay at Hotel Lumiere. I did.

Congratulations on being number 1 on my page! Since I don't subscribe to any threads or comments from the N, it makes life simpler and sweeter, less drama less BS.

State: New Jersey
City: Atlantic City
Casino: Atlantic Club

Today we begin the casinos of New Jersey, the thirteenth state covered in this thread and the second state to license casino gambling in the 20th century. The legislation that permitted casino gambling in the state was enacted in 1976. The header in these posts is a bit redundant, since Atlantic City is the only city in the state where casinos may be operated.

I suspect that a lot more members here have visited some of the New Jersey casinos than those in Louisiana, Mississippi, and Missouri. Perhaps that will lead to a broader range of members providing their comments on the casinos, or even posting images of their own souvenir chips.

The Atlantic Club Casino Hotel began its existence in 1980 as Atlantic City's sixth casino, the original Golden Nugget, under leadership of Steve Wynn. From 1996 until 2011, the facility was the Atlantic City Hilton, and I plan to discuss the history through that point a bit more when we get to "H". When Hilton ended the agreement allowing its name to be used on the hotel and casino, the place was renamed ACH, much as the Las Vegas Hilton became LVH. I don't think any chips were ever issued that just called the place "ACH", but if I am mistaken about that, someone please post some images of their chips. In 2012, the casino's name was changed to the current one.

In December 2012, there were reports that Rational Group, parent company of on-line gaming operations PokerStars and Full Tilt Poker, was negotiating to buy the property. In January 2013, there was an announcement of an agreement for the purchase and the beginning to efforts toward regulatory approval. I have not yet heard any comment about what the name of the casino might be if this sale is approved. Anyone know?

My most recent visit to Atlantic City was in July 2012, a couple of weeks before my trip to the St. Louis casinos. I picked up two new souvenir chips on that visit, one from the new casino in town and one from the Atlantic Club under its new name. I managed to come out $40 ahead at craps at the Atlantic Club, which was an almost trivial recovery from my substantial loss at the other place. At least I added two chips to my collection that day.

The Atlantic Club is at the south end of the boardwalk and has become known as the "locals" casino in Atlantic City. I think it is promoted as the casino "for the rest of us." What do the rest of you have to say about the Atlantic Club in it's current incarnation?

The chip shown below is a white ceramic chip from Chipco International. It has four imitation edge inserts, two each in gray and blue, with one of the gray ones containing the Chipco "CI" logo. The edge of the chip also has four marks (very slightly visible in the photo) that serve as imitation edge inserts, but they do not align with the marks on either face of the chip. The edge of this $1 chip also includes the "1" mark in four places, though this is not visible in the photo. The name of the casino, the denomination, and the city/state appear in a rose tinted field that is designed to look like a center inlay. Nothing on this chip fluoresces under UV light.

I guess I haven't yet photographed my Atlantic Club chip. I'll have to edit this post to add that later. I generally like this property. It's a bit too far from everything else on the boardwalk, but it's a good low-rollers place. Also, the view from the buffet is pretty great. Many of the other boardwalk casinos have restaurants with ocean views as well, but usually not at $9/plate.

Quote: rdw4potus

I guess I haven't yet photographed my Atlantic Club chip. I'll have to edit this post to add that later. I generally like this property. It's a bit too far from everything else on the boardwalk, but it's a good low-rollers place. Also, the view from the buffet is pretty great. Many of the other boardwalk casinos have restaurants with ocean views as well, but usually not at $9/plate.

Do you like to walk? My wife and I parked at the Atlantic Club a couple of weeks ago walked up beach and back. This was a very leisurely walk all the way to Revel and took 40 minutes. It was 5 minutes to the Tropicana, 15 to Trump Plaza, 18 to WWW, and 20 to Ballys etc.

How much do they charge for parking at the AC casinos? Do they validate?

Quote: Ayecarumba

How much do they charge for parking at the AC casinos? Do they validate?

It's a weird system. generally, $10, but it's free for upper-tier card holders (platinum & up at CZR properties, etc.). That $10 gets you parking at the garage you're in plus one additional garage that you move to later in the same calendar day. So if you want to visit both the marina properties and the boardwalk, it should only cost $10. Note: using the free validation at Caesars does NOT get you free parking at another garage - that one will cost $10.

Quote: 1BB

Do you like to walk? My wife and I parked at the Atlantic Club a couple of weeks ago walked up beach and back. This was a very leisurely walk all the way to Revel and took 40 minutes. It was 5 minutes to the Tropicana, 15 to Trump Plaza, 18 to WWW, and 20 to Ballys etc.

I do like to walk, and I did that same walk on my first trip to town. I walk up and down the strip in Vegas as well. But, like Vegas, it didn't look quite so far to Showboat as it wound up being.

Most parking is $5 and that includes a one time transfer to another casino within 24 hours. If checking in, the $5 is paid once with unlimited coming and going. The Atlantic Club has been free for a while and Revel and Golden Nugget are free at times. Some casinos will wave the fee after a certain amount of play and parking is always free for high tier cardholders. It makes me cry baloney when the casinos claim they have to charge for parking because of New Jersey state law. It is a state law but what about the above examples?

Quote: 1BB

It is a state law but what about the above examples?

Do you think it works like the antes in OK? The casino pays the fees for high-tier players and hotel guests, since they're getting money from them in other ways?

It sure seems like it.

I had rather expected that some members would have comments regarding operators of on-line gaming attempting to get approval to own a B&M casino in Atlantic City. I know absolutely none of the details beyond the comments I put in my post with the Atlantic Club chip, but I figured someone around here had better info or at least opinions. Is this the way it's going to be for legalization of on-line gaming, adding the internet service as part of a licensed physical casino, or it this just one company's approach?

From the opposite perspective, does an established business operating in an industry that has been accused of so many improprieties have a lot of difficulty getting approval from the NJCCC? I mean, does B&M ownership provide legitimacy to on-line gaming, or does a past in on-line gaming make a B&M license application suspect?

Quote: rdw4potus

It's a weird system.

It seems odd to charge for parking at a casino at all. That is, until you remember two thigns: 1) Vegas is unique and 2) even Disney charges for parking (or it did in Florida in '06)

State: New Jersey
City: Atlantic City
Casino: Bally's

Bally's Atlantic City is located at the intersection of the Boardwalk and Park Place, two addresses popularized and made famous as the high-end properties in the board game Monopoly (a favorite of the Wiz, I believe), which had most of its squares named for places in Atlantic City.

Bally Manufacturing (the Chicago-based pinball company) bought control of an ongoing project to build a Park Place Casino and attached their own name. The casino opened in December 1979, using the pre-existing but renovated Dennis Hotel for its lodging space. At least one resource I found says that the place opened under the name "Bally's Park Place," but the MOGH catalog shows some early chips that just say "Park Place Casino." I don't know when they really started treating the company name as part of the casino name.

In 1995, the company was bought by Hilton Hotels, which then split off all of its casino business in 1998 as Park Place Entertainment. In 2000, the casino name was changed to Bally's Atlantic City.

In 2003, Park Place Entertainment was renamed Caesars Entertainment (early edition) and was bought by Harrah's Entertainment in 2005, with Harrah's officially changing its name to Caesars Entertainment (current edition) in 2010. Thus, the Bally's Atlantic City casino is now once again one of Caesars properties. (Enough with the boring history lesson? Most of it was harvested from the ever-reliable Wikipedia anyway.)

I'm not sure when I got my souvenir chip from Bally's Atlantic City. My first visit to the city was in August 2004, and I expect I collected most of my New Jersey souvenir chips on that visit, but I don't have any records of where I went or how my gaming turned out.

In 2011, Hard Rock International announced a plan to build a casino in Atlantic City, at the south end of the boardwalk. Then in August 2012, there was a thread in this forum about Hard Rock planning to buy Bally's.

However, some months before that, a comment about 2/3 the way down the page on this article from an AC site said the gossip was specifically about the Seminole Hard Rock Casino making the purchase and had discounted that as an "ill-found rumor."

Last September, there was an announcement that Hard Rock International would not be constructing a casino in Atlantic City after all, but I am not privy to info about a possible purchase of Bally's or any other establishment. Anyone got any updated gossip? If we can't share facts, we should at least be able to spread rumors; after all, this is the internet!

The chip shown below is a custom white Paulson with four dark brown/purple edge inserts. It also has a few very interesting features. The two center inlays are different, with one showing currency and coins flowing down behind the denomination, while the other shows crossed six-guns. I'm not sure, but I think that must be a reference to the Wild Wild West casino. Wild Wild West was part of the Bally's complex starting in 1997, but I don't think there were ever any chips issued with that name. I understand that it recently pretty much closed down.

But to me the really interesting feature of the chip requires that you look closely at the background. On either face, behind where there is the printed "Bally's Atlantic City," you can see that the molded chip has the impression of "Park Place."

In fact, comparing images in the MOGH catalog, it looks to me as if this is the exact chip that was previously used for Park Place Casino, just with an oversized center inlay used to conceal the Park Place name. It even looks a bit as if there might be small/normal center inlays (flowing cash and crossed six-guns) with an additional oversized inlay covering that and adding the "Bally's Atlantic City" text to cover the earlier name. Moreover, there was an interim chip (shown on the MOGH page) that has an oversized inlay saying "Bally's Park Place" covering a Park Place Casino base chip.

I don't know whether it is really possible to add an overlaying center inlay after the fact, but it sure looks as if they had a supply of old Park Place Casino chips and kept slapping labels on top as the name evolved over more than two decades. The MOGH catalog does not indicate issue dates for any of these chips.

UV light reveals a hidden Paulson logo in the center plus four glowing spots near the edge. Initially, I thought that these were triangular edge inserts fluorescing through the center inlay, but that doesn't seem to match what can be seen on the visible-light images. The positions of these UV spots align with the edge inserts, but the inserts are not triangular. What's more, there is no fluorescence outside the boundary of the oversized center inlay. It's as if these small inserts don't really fluoresce at all, but something else aligned with them is fluorescing through the edge of the center inlay in a triangular shape.

I don't have any idea what that implies, so I'll let others speculate for a while. What do you think?



Edit 3/18/13: On 3/17, our member sodawater posted here his old Park Place chip, predating the addition of the Bally's name to the property.

State: New Jersey
City: Atlantic City
Casino: Borgata

I'm a bit surprised that yesterday's post about the Bally's chip, with all of the strange features I reported, did not generate a single reply. Not so much as one wild speculation! Perhaps it was the "weekend" effect showing up again. On, then, to the next Casino Chip of the Day....

The Borgata is a beautiful casino hotel complex, both inside and out, and the casino is the leader in the Atlantic City market. It is located in the marina district, well away from the boardwalk area and close to the (renamed) Golden Nugget and Harrah's properties.

The Borgata is officially owned by Marina District Development, a jointly-planned venture by Boyd Gaming and Mirage Resorts. When MGM Grand acquired Mirage in a merger in 2000, the development of Borgata continued, and it opened on July 2, 2003.

MGM has had some conflict with the New Jersey Casino Control Commission related to the company's business in Macau. They established the MGM Grand Macau in partnership with Pansy Ho, and the New Jersey regulators were not convinced that she operated independently of her father, Stanly Ho, who has been accused of association/involvement with Chinese organized crime. Because of this connection, the regulators were on the verge of declaring MGM-Mirage as unsuitable to operate casinos in New Jersey.

Essentially, the regulators gave MGM the choice of withdrawing from the Macau market or withdrawing from the New Jersey market. The company, by then renamed MGM Resorts International, looked at which market was more lucrative and chose to stick with Macau, placing their ownership share of the Borgata under trustee control and looking for a buyer, which has not yet been found.

While I have been to Atlantic City half a dozen times, I have only visited the Borgata once, in August 2006, with my wife and both of my brothers. We managed to keep getting lost from each other on the casino floor. It is a huge circle with a central hub and very few landmarks to help one keep oriented. This was before I kept a log of my gaming, so I cannot honestly report my results at the table. Let's pretend that I won something. At least I came home with a souvenir chip.

That chip is shown below. It is a white Bud Jones plastic injection molded chip with a set of eight turquoise dashes and four matching "$1" denomination marks on each face. The shorter outer dashes continue down the edge of the chip, along with two diamonds in the same color between each of those dashes (eight total diamonds on the edge). This pattern of dashes, denomination marks, and edge diamonds is similar (though different) from what appears on the chip I posted from the Blue Water Casino in Parker, AZ. On that one the short/long dashes are swapped, and there are only four diamonds on the edge.

The center inlay on the Borgata chip contains the city (with no mention of the state), the denomination in red, the casino name in a script font, and a faint gray background swirl that I don't recognize as anything in particular. Maybe that's the casino floor plan we kept getting lost in. This inlay is surrounded by a gold foil ring, much like the one on the Ameristar Vicksburg chip that I posted.

UV light reveals that all of the turquoise material fluoresces and that there is a tiny BJ logo hidden just above the red "$". As I sometimes point out in such cases – Hey, we got another BJ!

Here are my Bally's and Borgata chips. The Bally's chips really are interesting. I can't find another chip in my collection that has one name on the inlay and another imprinted on the chip itself. I can't imagine there are many places where that'd even be allowed. With it's prime location and generally cheap rooms, it's odd to say but I think I've only been to Bally's twice. They screwed me over in a big way on my first visit (reserved renovated Bally's tower room, got a room in the 'Ridge when I arrived), and I have somewhat unintentionally blackballed them ever since. It's not that I wouldn't/won't go, it's just that I never get down to their new position on my list. I guess I've been to WWW a few more times. They had Pai Gow Mania, and that game was a lot of fun to play. I think that both that casino and that game have gone the way of the buffalo now.

Borgata is one of my favorite casinos. It's just outstanding. Even the chips are beautiful. If the limits weren't higher than everywhere else, I'd probably never leave - but I suppose lower limits would also make it so that they couldn't pay for all the nice touches on the property either. It's probably very lucky for the rest of AC that the Borgata isn't on the Boardwalk. But, I suppose if it were it wouldn't have such outstanding views of the boardwalk properties from it's rooms.

Quote: rdw4potus

Here are my Bally's and Borgata chips.

Are you kidding me??? What the heck is the idea of a Bally's (or any) Atlantic City casino chip with a center inlay photo of a mountain and a saguaro cactus? That makes absolutely no sense at all!!! How far from Atlantic City would you have to travel to see each of those?

DOC, I think when federal legislation is passed for on-line gambling, a provision will be that you own a B&M casino in the USA.

Be surprised if the gambling lobby doesn't have their way with Congress.

Quote: Doc

Are you kidding me??? What the heck is the idea of a Bally's (or any) Atlantic City casino chip with a center inlay photo of a mountain and a saguaro cactus? That makes absolutely no sense at all!!! How far from Atlantic City would you have to travel to see each of those?

LOL! I know! I think it's supposed to be a part of the Wild Wild West theme (FWIW, I'm 90% sure I picked the chip up in the pit at WWW and not Bally's, but they're all the same chips).

Maybe you'll see a saguaro cactus in a few weeks?

Quote: rdw4potus

Maybe you'll see a saguaro cactus in a few weeks?

Reasonable chance of that -- three weeks from today we will arrive in Phoenix! I just wouldn't ever expect to see one next to a mountain/mesa in New Jersey.

What are you doing in Phoenix doc? Just the casino tours?

My wife and I have a ten-day trip planned that will take us (with a little luck on our travels and hopefully at the tables) to 11 casinos in Arizona and 10 casinos in northern New Mexico. I'm blaming this trip on rdw4potus and all of those beautiful Arizona chips that he posted here while my wife and I were on our last road trip.

My wife has long wanted to visit Albuquerque, Santa Fe, and Taos for a lot of non-casino touristy reasons. On this trip, we won't get to do all the things she wants to do in that area, but we should be able to scout things out a little and better plan a future trip.

The casino routing I have in mind is from the Phoenix airport to Scottsdale, Chandler, Maricopa, Tuscon, San Carlos, Pinetop, Albuquerque, Santa Ana Pueblo, San Felipe Pueblo, Santa Fe, Espanola, Taos, Campe Verde, Prescott, Payson, and back to the Phoenix airport. I am a bit concerned about some of the warnings rdw4potus gave regarding Google and GPS not giving good projections for driving times, but I think we can make this itinerary and have a few days to relax along the way, too.

We lived in southern New Mexico in 1969-71 and drove through Tucson and Phoenix on the way from there to the Grand Canyon, not stopping to see much along the way, and that was a long time ago. We have never been to the other places in Arizona listed above, and we have never been to northern NM except for a conference I attended alone in 1999. It should be a nice trip for us.

Quote: Doc

The casino routing I have in mind is from the Phoenix airport to Scottsdale, Chandler, Maricopa, Tuscon, San Carlos, Pinetop, Albuquerque, Santa Ana Pueblo, San Felipe Pueblo, Santa Fe, Espanola, Taos, Campe Verde, Prescott, Payson, and back to the Phoenix airport. I am a bit concerned about some of the warnings rdw4potus gave regarding Google and GPS not giving good projections for driving times, but I think we can make this itinerary and have a few days to relax along the way, too.

Are you skipping Fire Rock (Church Rock) and Sky City (Acoma Pueblo) on I-40 between ABQ and Gallup? If you're taking the interstate from ABQ to Camp Verde, you might as well stop by:-)

I wouldn't plan on being able to go the speed limit through much of the Tonto national forest in AZ. But, that's probably just as well - it's awfully beautiful, might as well take your time.

So what sight-seeing activities do you have planned for this trip?

I've lived in Phoenix for all 29 years of my life so if you have any questions or want any recommendations just pm me. I will tell you that all gila river casinos (lone butte, vee quiva, and wild horse pass) use the same chips. I'd personally cut out lone butte casino as there isn't much to see. It is pretty small & basically wild horse pass' little brother. The only thing worth going there is for BAD...bingo after dark. They have this going on Saturdays at 11:30 pm and it is your basic bingo game but a big party. Live music, dancing, drinks, glow sticks etc... It's totally opposite of any other bingo hall I have seen. Wild horse pass is the biggest and best gila river casino. When the fiesta bowl was played in Tempe they used to have one of the teams stay at that resort. Now they usually host one of the insight bowl/buffalo wild wings/ whatever corporate sponsor participants.

Also the two Casino Arizona casinos (talking stick & mckellips) both have the same chips. Talking stick is a very nice casino. The best in the state. Spending any extra time there would be the best thing to do in my opinion. They have one of the best poker rooms in the country. They have at least 20 tables going at all times and at night it's probably closer to 40 tables. The room itself is smoke free with tons of tv's.

Harrahs is also a pretty nice casino, but it's about 35 minutes outside of the Phoenix metropolitan area. Definitely obey any speed limits posted in the area. I used to work at harrahs for about 4 years and the cops are notorious for writing speeding tickets.

Anyway it would be nice to meet up if possible to say hi and shoot the breeze but I am getting married on saturday march 2nd. I don't leave for the honeymoon in Maui until Monday but I honestly don't think I'll have any time on Sunday to meet up. Maybe the wife will let me sneak out of the house for an hour or so if I'm lucky but I will let you know if that sounds like something you could swing.

rdw4potus: No, I did not have either Fire Rock or Sky City on my list, not because I planned on skipping them, but because I had not identified them. They are now on my list and among my GPS "favorites". I'm planning to take I-40 both directions, not just from ABQ to Camp Verde but before that as much as possible from Hon-Dah up to ABQ. Thanks for cluing me in on these two. Please, anyone, let me know if there is something else I have overlooked!

Beardgoat: Congratulations on the wedding, and there is no way I would impose on a guy the day after he gets married! We will be flying into Phoenix on Sunday evening, spending the night somewhere, then hitting all the casinos from Scottsdale down to Tucson on Monday. Have fun in Maui!

Thanks for the advice on the casinos, too. From rdw's posts, I was aware of casinos that use the same chips, and I only planned to visit one of each type. Maybe I need to review my choices. I had picked out Lone Butte perhaps because rdw4potus commented that he had visited that one first. I suppose I should change that to Wild Horse Pass a couple of miles down the road. I also had Casino Arizona on my list instead of Talking Stick, simply because it is on maybe a couple of miles shorter route from Fort McDowell down to Chandler, so perhaps that plan should be revised, too. Thanks, and thanks for the speed limit advice, too.

State: New Jersey
City: Atlantic City
Casino: Caesars

Perhaps today we need some commentary from Nareed, who has, in another thread, been providing our lessons on the history of Rome. Today's Casino Chip of the Day is from Caesars Atlantic City and provides an image of Septimius Severus, aka Lucius Septimius Severus Augustus, aka just plain Severus, the 21st Roman emperor and the one who was serving at the transition from the second to third century A.D. He achieved his position in the usual way, i.e., killing the incumbent, but I think I'll let Nareed tell that story.

Caesars opened as Atlantic City's second casino, and the company history leading to that point is interesting. The two Perlman brothers from Miami entered the hot dog business in the '50s, building the Lums stand that they purchased into a major restaurant chain. I dined at a number of those Lums restaurants and really liked them. The brothers turned their success into a buying binge, acquiring all sorts of businesses in the '60s, including Caesars Palace in Las Vegas in 1969. They then started selling off the restaurants, focusing attention on the casino, and changed the name of their company to Caesars World.

In 1977, they bought the Howard Johnson's Regency Motor Hotel adjacent to the boardwalk in Atlantic City, renovated it, and opened Caesars Boardwalk Regency in 1979, under a temporary license from the state. Unfortunately for them, the New Jersey Casino Control Commission objected to some ties they had developed with organized crime along the way to building their business. The commission denied a permanent license. Rather than close the casino, the Perlman brothers sold their 18% share of the corporation back to the company itself. In 1987, the name of the casino was changed to Caesars Atlantic City.

ITT Corporation purchased Caesars World in 1995 and in 1998 was purchased itself by Starwood Hotels, which sold off most of the casino businesses to Park Place Entertainment and …(insert here that rambling discussion of how Park Place eventually evolved into two editions of Caesars Entertainment)…. In summary, Caesars Atlantic City is one of the many properties of the current Caesars Entertainment.

I'm pretty sure that I played in Caesars and collected my souvenir chip on my first visit to Atlantic City in 2004, but I kept no records other than the souvenir itself.

The chip shown below is a white custom Paulson with four narrow green edge inserts. The base chip has the name CAESARS molded in, using the same old font style as molded into the perimeter and printed on the center inlay of the Caesars Palace chip I posted way back last March. The center inlay for the Atlantic City chip has the emperor Severus's image and name, the casino name (not in the old font), and the city (no state I.D.) all printed in black, along with a large denomination mark in yellow. Other than the printing, the outer ring of the oversized center inlay is fairly clear, only slightly obscuring the molded name.

UV light reveals the hidden Paulson logo in the center plus the fact that the green edge inserts fluoresce. This UV image gives me a little more to think about the Bally's chip UV image that I posted a couple of days ago. On that one, I said it looked as if triangular edge inserts were fluorescing through the center inlay, except the edge inserts were not triangular and weren't fluorescing where they were not covered by the inlay. I see the same kind of "triangular" glow through the center inlay on this chip. Again, the inserts in reality are narrow and rectangular, but at least this time the uncovered portions of the edge inserts fluoresce, too. These triangles that we can see glowing are strange, but not quite so strange as the really odd features on the Bally's chip.

Here's my chip from Caesars AC. I'm hung up on a piece of the history. ITT corporation purchased Caesars World in 1995. Is that the same diversified company that is publicly traded today (NYSE: ITT)? I know the current company is a defense contractor with night vision and space divisions, and that they also have water filtration and piping divisions (some of those may now be part of spinoffs Xylem and Exelis). At any rate, I can't imagine a casino fitting in those holdings but I also can't imagine a different company being granted the exact same name as a public corporation.

I've been thinking about it since I posted my Bally's chip yesterday - I don't think I've been to Caesars or the Taj more than twice, either. Plaza used to have good cheap games, so I've been there lots. But for some reason I haven't played much in the center of the boardwalk.

Quote: Doc

rdw4potus: No, I did not have either Fire Rock or Sky City on my list, not because I planned on skipping them, but because I had not identified them. They are now on my list and among my GPS "favorites". I'm planning to take I-40 both directions, not just from ABQ to Camp Verde but before that as much as possible from Hon-Dah up to ABQ. Thanks for cluing me in on these two. Please, anyone, let me know if there is something else I have overlooked!

Why travel the same road twice? You have overlooked an excellent opportunity to take US 550/US 64 and visit Upper Fruitland and Dulce, and Ignacio and Towac in CO! Just tell your wife that you're going to see the 4 corners and the extra casinos have nothing to do with the routing choices:-)

Quote: rdw4potus

I'm hung up on a piece of the history. ITT corporation purchased Caesars World in 1995. Is that the same diversified company that is publicly traded today (NYSE: ITT)?

I know that I have maligned the reliability of Wikipedia on numerous occasions, but here is part of what they have to say about this.

Quote: Wiki

The company was founded in 1920 as International Telephone & Telegraph. During the 1960s and 1970s, under the leadership of its CEO Harold Geneen the company rose to prominence as the archetypal conglomerate, deriving its growth from hundreds of acquisitions in diversified industries. ITT divested its telecommunications assets in 1986, and in 1995 spun off its non-manufacturing divisions, later to be purchased by Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide.

In 1996, the current company was founded as a spinoff of the original ITT Corporation as ITT Industries, Inc. and changed its name to ITT Corporation in 2006.

To me, that much reorganization makes ITT sound like it fits just fine with the casino industry. ;-)

Quote: rdw4potus

Just tell your wife that you're going to see the 4 corners and the extra casinos have nothing to do with the routing choices:-)

My first reaction was, "Didn't you just see my post where I was trying not to destroy Beargoat's marriage the day after the wedding? Why are you suggesting I should wipe out my own after all these years?"

Then I took a look at the map. I wouldn't try to deceive the better half, but I looked to see the implications of re-planning the route back to AZ. If we go Toaos to Dulce to Ignacio to Towaoc to Upper Fruitland to Gallop (instead of the more direct route), Google maps says that it would add a little under five hours to the trip -- no idea how reliable that Google estimate is. If we were doing this in June, that might be a reasonable adjustment, but I'm not sure that mid-March is a good time for me to go exploring the high country, just as I didn't plan the trip to Cripple Creek, Black Hawk, and Central City for the winter. I've never been to any of those areas, and getting snowbound in the boonies isn't my idea of a fun outing. Talk about destroying a marriage....

Quote: Doc

My first reaction was, "Didn't you just see my post where I was trying not to destroy Beargoat's marriage the day after the wedding? Why are you suggesting I should wipe out my own after all these years?"

Then I took a look at the map. I wouldn't try to deceive the better half, but I looked to see the implications of re-planning the route back to AZ. If we go Toaos to Dulce to Ignacio to Towaoc to Upper Fruitland to Gallop (instead of the more direct route), Google maps says that it would add a little under five hours to the trip -- no idea how reliable that Google estimate is. If we were doing this in June, that might be a reasonable adjustment, but I'm not sure that mid-March is a good time for me to go exploring the high country, just as I didn't plan the trip to Cripple Creek, Black Hawk, and Central City for the winter. I've never been to any of those areas, and getting snowbound in the boonies isn't my idea of a fun outing. Talk about destroying a marriage....

You are wise Doc. Leave something to look forward to for the return trip, and give Mrs. Doc more time to shop in Taos.

Quote: Doc

State: New Jersey
City: Atlantic City
Casino: Caesars

Here's some Caesars trivia... Did you know Septimus Severus was African? I don't recall any other chips with images of black guys on them (or other non-whites for that matter)?

Quote: Doc

Thanks for the advice on the casinos, too. From rdw's posts, I was aware of casinos that use the same chips, and I only planned to visit one of each type. Maybe I need to review my choices. I had picked out Lone Butte perhaps because rdw4potus commented that he had visited that one first. I suppose I should change that to Wild Horse Pass a couple of miles down the road. I also had Casino Arizona on my list instead of Talking Stick, simply because it is on maybe a couple of miles shorter route from Fort McDowell down to Chandler, so perhaps that plan should be revised, too. Thanks, and thanks for the speed limit advice, too.

How many casinos in ABQ are you going to? I think there are at least five: Sandia, Route 66, Santa Ana Star, Hard Rock, and Hollywood. Heavy posted a useful map. At least they are all easy to get to.

If you're playing craps, of course we expected you to take advantage of the triple-2 in the field, and the free buys on the 4 and 10. Otherwise, we're revoking your Wizard card . . . :)

I will be playing craps wherever it is offered and blackjack at the other places. I expect to play the no-HE field and free-buy bets on the 4 & 10 a fair amount when they are available, but then I almost never bet the full allowance on pass line free odds, because I play with such a limited bankroll. On those free buys on 4 & 10, do they really pay 2:1 on small bets, lower than wagers for which one would usually ask for a buy and pay the vig?

Based on comments I received today in this thread, here is my updated itinerary of casinos for that trip:

1. Fort McDowell, 10424 North Fort McDowell Rd., Scottsdale, AZ
2. Talking Stick, 9800 East Indian Bend Road, Scottsdale, AZ
3. Gila River/Wild Horse Pass, 5040 West Wild Horse Pass Boulevard, Chandler AZ
4. Harrah's Ak-Chin, 15406 North Maricopa Rd., Maricopa, AZ
5. Desert Diamond, 7350 South Nogales Highway, Tucson, AZ
6. Casino Del Sol, 5655 West Valencia Rd., Tucson, AZ
7. Apache Gold, Highway 70 Milepost 258, San Carlos, AZ
8. Hon-Dah, 777 Highway 260, Pinetop, AZ
9. Fire Rock, Church Rock, NM
10. Sky City, Acoma, NM
11. Route 66, 14500 Central Avenue SW, Albuquerque, NM
12. Hard Rock, 11000 Broadway SE, Albuquerque, NM
13. Sandia Resort, 30 Rainbow Rd NE, Albuquerque, NM
14. Santa Ana Star, 54 Jemez Canyon Dam Rd, Santa Ana Pueblo, NM
15. San Felipe’s, 25 Hagon Rd, San Felipe Pueblo, NM
16. Camel Rock, 17486A Highway 84 & 285, Santa Fe, NM
17. Buffalo Thunder, 30 Buffalo Thunder Trail, Santa Fe, NM
18. Santa Claran, 460 North Riverside Drive, Espanola,NM
19. Ohkay, Highway 68 2 mi N of Espanola, NM
20. Taos Mountain, 700 Veterans Hwy, Taos, NM
21. Cliff Castle, 555 Middle Verde Rd., Camp Verde, AZ
22. Bucky's, 1500 East Highway 69, Prescott, AZ
23. Mazatzal, Hwy 87 Mile Marker 251, Payson, AZ

Alternate routing from Taos to Camp Verde:
20a. Wild Horse, 13603 US Highway 64, Dulce, NM
20b. Sky Ute, 14324 Highway 172 North, Ignacio, CO
20c. Ute Mountain, 3 Weeminuche Drive, Towaoc, CO
20d. Northern Edge Navajo, Upper Fruitland, NM


It is very unlikely that we will follow that alternate routing on this visit to the area. My wife is already dreading what she describes as "casino burnout" with the first 23 casinos on the list, so I don't think she could stand adding five hours of driving and four more casinos, even if there weren't the winter weather issues. I suspect that rdw has a similar situation to look forward to when that fiancée becomes his wife.

Quote: Doc

I will be playing craps wherever it is offered and blackjack at the other places. I expect to play the no-HE field and free-buy bets on the 4 & 10 a fair amount when they are available, but then I almost never bet the full allowance on pass line free odds, because I play with such a limited bankroll. On those free buys on 4 & 10, do they really pay 2:1 on small bets, lower than wagers for which one would usually ask for a buy and pay the vig?

Based on comments I received today in this thread, here is my updated itinerary of casinos for that trip:

1. Fort McDowell, 10424 North Fort McDowell Rd., Scottsdale, AZ
2. Talking Stick, 9800 East Indian Bend Road, Scottsdale, AZ
3. Gila River/Wild Horse Pass, 5040 West Wild Horse Pass Boulevard, Chandler AZ
4. Harrah's Ak-Chin, 15406 North Maricopa Rd., Maricopa, AZ
5. Desert Diamond, 7350 South Nogales Highway, Tucson, AZ
6. Casino Del Sol, 5655 West Valencia Rd., Tucson, AZ
7. Apache Gold, Highway 70 Milepost 258, San Carlos, AZ
8. Hon-Dah, 777 Highway 260, Pinetop, AZ
9. Fire Rock, Church Rock, NM
10. Sky City, Acoma, NM
11. Route 66, 14500 Central Avenue SW, Albuquerque, NM
12. Hard Rock, 11000 Broadway SE, Albuquerque, NM
13. Sandia Resort, 30 Rainbow Rd NE, Albuquerque, NM
14. Santa Ana Star, 54 Jemez Canyon Dam Rd, Santa Ana Pueblo, NM
15. San Felipe’s, 25 Hagon Rd, San Felipe Pueblo, NM
16. Camel Rock, 17486A Highway 84 & 285, Santa Fe, NM
17. Buffalo Thunder, 30 Buffalo Thunder Trail, Santa Fe, NM
18. Santa Claran, 460 North Riverside Drive, Espanola,NM
19. Ohkay, Highway 68 2 mi N of Espanola, NM
20. Taos Mountain, 700 Veterans Hwy, Taos, NM
21. Cliff Castle, 555 Middle Verde Rd., Camp Verde, AZ
22. Bucky's, 1500 East Highway 69, Prescott, AZ
23. Mazatzal, Hwy 87 Mile Marker 251, Payson, AZ

Alternate routing from Taos to Camp Verde:
20a. Wild Horse, 13603 US Highway 64, Dulce, NM
20b. Sky Ute, 14324 Highway 172 North, Ignacio, CO
20c. Ute Mountain, 3 Weeminuche Drive, Towaoc, CO
20d. Northern Edge Navajo, Upper Fruitland, NM


It is very unlikely that we will follow that alternate routing on this visit to the area. My wife is already dreading what she describes as "casino burnout" with the first 23 casinos on the list, so I don't think she could stand adding five hours of driving and four more casinos, even if there weren't the winter weather issues. I suspect that rdw has a similar situation to look forward to when that fiancée becomes his wife.

LOL! The fiancee is already skeptical of my gambling. She won't even come to WovCon because "(I'll) just be gambling with the internet people all the time anyway." She also hates travel, so I just go without her. And, for the WOVcon week, I think that frees me up to drive an utterly idiotic route from LAS to Fernley to northern CA to Visalia, and back to LAS.

If you DO wind up taking the alternate routing, I recommend spending a night in Durango or Farmington (you have to be in Dulce after 6pm) and then spending a day or two meandering down US 160, which goes pretty much exactly through 4 corners en route to Flagstaff & the interstate.

23 casinos in 10 days isn't that bad. What does the non-gaming part of the trip entail? Do you have the sightseeing part of things worked out?

I'm not sure of the extent to which the weather will be a factor. Highs are quite decent in the area in March. 55ish in Taos, 60 in ABQ, high 40s in Durango (had to throw that one in...). And, except for Eastern AZ, it's a high-plain and not really a mountainous drive. I was also surprised by how not-high it was in NM. Taos and Santa Fe are beautiful towns, but they're "only" at 7200 and 7000 feet elevation. For reference, ABQ's elevation is about 5500 feet at the Rio Grand and 6500 feet on the east side of town by Sandia Peak.