What Casinos are Selling

I was reading an article by a former casino manager,
who also teaches dealers how to be floor supervisors.
He says he tells his students that a casino is selling
a product, and that product is 'negative expectation'.
Every customer that comes thru the door has a negative
expectation of winning, and if the casino finds out they
have way to get a positive expectation, its up to the
casino to get rid of them ASAP.

I don't think I've ever seen it put quite so bluntly before.
He's saying everything here is set up so you will lose. We
expect you to lose, we want you to lose. If you've found
a way to get around what we're selling, we won't stand
for it and we'll get rid of you. When we say 'We love
winners!' with a big crap eating grin plastered on our
faces, what we really mean is 'We hate it when you win!'
I've never read where they actually talk to dealers and
floor people so bluntly, maybe this guy is unique.

Quote: EvenBob

I was reading an article by a former casino manager,
who also teaches dealers how to be floor supervisors.
He says he tells his students that a casino is selling
a product, and that product is 'negative expectation'.
Every customer that comes thru the door has a negative
expectation of winning, and if the casino finds out they
have way to get a positive expectation, its up to the
casino to get rid of them ASAP.

I don't think I've ever seen it put quite so bluntly before.
He's saying everything here is set up so you will lose. We
expect you to lose, we want you to lose. If you've found
a way to get around what we're selling, we won't stand
for it and we'll get rid of you. When we say 'We love
winners!' with a big crap eating grin plastered on our
faces, what we really mean is 'We hate it when you win!'
I've never read where they actually talk to dealers and
floor people so bluntly, maybe this guy is unique.

When I was in dealer school it was explained a little different and better IMHO. The guy said the casino "earns" its money because every bet (except craps free-odds as we know but he didn't confues newbies) has a built-in edge. Then he said casinos base play on "greed" and I forget the fancy term for lazieness. "Greed" means they want more money. Lazieness means they want the money without working for it. The more of both a player has the easier to empty their wallet.

Bob,
You know, there is a negative expectation on everything in life, as your salary is expected to be spent - instead of hoarded or freeloading or constantly complaining that it costs too much "to pay to play." You have got to pay to play as part of the game of life. Crap or get off the pot without complaining.

If you're complaining about the fee to gamble in the first place, then you're obviously broke or an AP.
And casinos are not selling to you. The internet is.
Casinos are selling to those who will pay-to-play.

Casinos charge the entertainment fee as part of the house edge on its games, and that should indeed be known going in - or else don't go or complain. If you were to complain about not getting a free lunch when you want it or expect it - you will do a lot complaining, which is a lot of space at this forum.

Every "pay-for-play" action in this life costs you money. Life therefore sucks, and we complain about that on the Internet.
And Mike moderates this amusing xhit.
Dinner and a movie with a cheap date: $75.
Good dinner and a show: $300.
Great dinner and a great show and with a really great "date": $8,200
House edge on casino games: 0.5% to 4.1% for tables, in that range.
It is important to have a well-paying job, to spend your time paying for these things and enjoying these things, instead of complaining about the tolls to be paid to get through it or to it.

And You got a shot at winning it back at a casino, - and no where else.

Oh... let us not forget:
Griping on the Internet at a gambler's forum and how much life can cost you, - including to play at a casino or card room - called the house edge for being alive:

$0 by freeeloading on a neighbor's Wi-Fi.

In my opinion, this makes no sense. The way the casino makes money is the house edge. But its not what they're selling. Who would want to buy that? It's like saying that what a clothing store is selling is profit. They're not. They're selling clothes. But profit margin is the way they make their money. And everybody working at the store needs to understand that if they sell the clothes without making a profit, then the store will not last very long.

What the casino is selling is variance. When I play a hand of $100 blackjack in the casino, I'm being offered the opportunity to win or lose $100 or more. This is what provides the entertainment and enjoyment of the game. And the cost that I pay to the casino in exchange for this is 30 to 80 cents per hand. Even less when you consider comped rooms and meals, free drinks while gambling, etc.

In my estimation, this is completely reasonable. The casino is not evil or exploitative for collecting their fee for the service they provide.

Well realistically life is a negative expectation game.

And what were you selling as a barman, BOB. Good Health ??

Quote: buzzpaff

And what were you selling as a barman, BOB. Good Health ??

Bars sell bitters, don't they?

Not in any bar BOB owned!

Quote: Paigowdan

Griping on the Internet at a gambler's forum .

Where does it sound like I'm griping? I simply
stated what I read. Facts are facts. You must
feel awfully guilty about what you do Dan,
you're so quick to defend it and climb down the
throat of anybody who in the least bit questions
it. Fact is, casinos are there to take your money
any way they can, plain and simple. No, they
haven't taken mine, nor will they. Casinos are
the Dark Side, pretending they're not doesn't
change anything.

Quote: EvenBob

I was reading an article by a former casino manager,
who also teaches dealers how to be floor supervisors.
He says he tells his students that a casino is selling
a product, and that product is 'negative expectation'.
Every customer that comes thru the door has a negative
expectation of winning, and if the casino finds out they
have way to get a positive expectation, its up to the
casino to get rid of them ASAP.

I don't think I've ever seen it put quite so bluntly before.
He's saying everything here is set up so you will lose. We
expect you to lose, we want you to lose. If you've found
a way to get around what we're selling, we won't stand
for it and we'll get rid of you. When we say 'We love
winners!' with a big crap eating grin plastered on our
faces, what we really mean is 'We hate it when you win!'
I've never read where they actually talk to dealers and
floor people so bluntly, maybe this guy is unique.

;-D

You make this sound like it's a bad thing!

How else should it be? I don't WANT them to love me. I don't even want them to know me, beyond the time we spend together. (I DO want them to be pleasant, though.) I want them to have an edge, I want them to want to take my money. If it were any other way it wouldn't be any fun.

I think most gamblers have their eyes pretty wide open on this one, even the casual ones. How the casino feels about it is kind of irrelevant. I don't really care what they think of me. I care that I get good entertainment value for my money. Everything else is commentary.

Quote: Paigowdan

Great dinner and a great show and with a really great "date": $8,200.

Was confused here for a moment, until I noticed the quotations marks setting off the word date. Then I realized just what was meant and where the bulk of the money would be going, but I wonder do you really take a "not from an Agency" girl out to dinner?

Anyway, I think it is possible to view a casino as selling negative expectation and variance all wrapped up in hope with a few dabs of ignorance and lack of sobriety thrown in.

We all know there is a house edge. Some know it to the nth decimal place, some just know it as a generalized theory, but everyone knows it. Some know that despite the "edge" there will be females with curves in Vegas, so if they lose they will at least have some extra fun doing it. Some have hopes of winning millions on a twenty dollar buy-in, but at least they have hopes. Not realistic hope, but hope nevertheless.

But in reality... its a place to get free booze and a lady who will turn a trick.... Lady Luck!!

Quote: Mosca

How the casino feels about it is kind of irrelevant. I don't really care what they think of me.

You're in the minority. Most people want the casino
to love them, and appreciate them, and respect
them. So they buy the hype. They open their players
card envelopes that come in the mail and ooh and aah
at all the freebies their good buddies heap on them
every month. Free rooms, slot credits, free blenders
and beach umbrellas if they show up between 10 and
2 on Wednesday. They feel bathed in the love and
appreciation, and I'm not exaggerating.

Seriously,
1. Casinos sell entertainment, excitement, nighttime activity, expectation, fun, and diversion from daily life, like all viable entertainment outlets.

2. The entrance fee is built into the house edge of games and amusements, with a chance to get lucky and win. It is supposed to be there, it is supposed to be this way, and it is all right that it is there. Any nefarious ways to build a gaffe to get around this pay-to-play fee is malfesance and is not a goal if not within the rules. (It's like sneaking into a show without a ticket, and many try to add this element of illicit fun. Money gotten with a touch of larceny is sweeter for some.) In poker rooms, you pay a rake on the pot you win, and in the pit, you get 9:5 instead on 2:1. Slot play back is 92% to 99%, not 100%, realistically. WTH.

3. There is absolutely nothing evil or abusive in the simple existence or operations of regulated casinos. There are no magnets under the crap tables or in the Roulette wheel, no tens are missing from deck, and the advertising and promotional campaigns are normal business marketing, not evil seduction.

4. Drinks are free as a courtesy and convenience, and not as a sinister plot; you can order a Pepsi. Dinners are often comped.

5. It is generally not cheap entertainment, like renting a movie at RedBox. Complaining about the expense is pointless, and shows either limited resources or limited personal controls.

6. If you believe that there is some sort of a sinister master plot simply by being comped a meal, or by receiving promotional material in the mail, you're a little off the mark. I remember when you got a free toaster when opening up a bank account.

Quote: EvenBob

You're in the minority. Most people want the casino
to love them, and appreciate them, and respect
them. So they buy the hype. They open their players
card envelopes that come in the mail and ooh and aah
at all the freebies their good buddies heap on them
every month. Free rooms, slot credits, free blenders
and beach umbrellas if they show up between 10 and
2 on Wednesday. They feel bathed in the love and
appreciation, and I'm not exaggerating.

Well, I guess I'm not really qualified to speak for the majority. But if that is so, then I don't think you are, either.

It's like a lot of things in the world. It's easy to make it look like a crayon drawing. But the truth is a lot more nuanced and complex. It's a hospitality business. Like any hospitality business, you don't want the hostility to show. But at the same time, it's kind of unrealistic to think that those providing the service don't speak frankly every now and then. And at the same time again, it's also not right to think that they can't hold more than one feeling at a time. It's possible to like the patrons and still want their money. It's possible to treat them as statistics in a general sense, and treat them like people when you're face to face with them. It's a casual business relationship, where part of the business is trading in good feelings. There are all kinds of things that can go on all at the same time, and I think that you are filling your own agenda when you simplify it with your singular take on the relationship.

Most people want to spend a few hours playing slots, throwing dice, and having a few drinks.

Most people want to be loved by their husbands or wives, and their sons and daughters. Who cares what a slot attendant or valet car parker thinks. If you do, you're nuts.

Quote: Paigowdan

4. Drinks are free as a courtesy and convenience, and not as a sinister plot.

You mean its more love being lavished on the customers?
It has nothing to do with the fact that booze clouds the
mind and lowers inhibitions. That people who drink a
certain amount tend make bad decisions and do things
they wouldn't do if they were sober. C'mon, Dan, who
are you trying to kid..

Bob,
The drinks are a courtesy and convenience.
Some Casinos charge you for the drinks, and some don't.
You can order and drink what you like: vodka, whiskey, a pepsi, avian water, Hawaiian punch

The presence of the variety of the beverages offered does not constitute a mind-control plot.
It constitutes a selection to choose from, when you are thirsty.

Quote: Paigowdan

The presence of the variety of the beverages offered does not constitute a mind-control plot.

Of COURSE it does, Dan, you can't be serious. They offer a
mind altering drug for FREE if you're playing, and you think
its because they like you? They want you to loosen up, drop
your inhibitions and start making bad decisions. Its what
business calls a 'loss leader'. A loss leader is 'a product given
away or sold at a low price to stimulate other profitable sales.'
Thats what booze does, it stimulates players to bet more, make
foolish mistakes, and become what they used to call 'casino
oriented', which is another name for 'losers'.

"Alcohol (ethanol), a psychoactive drug, is a chemical substance that crosses the blood–brain barrier and acts primarily upon the central nervous system where it affects brain function, resulting in changes in perception, mood, consciousness, cognition, and behavior."

Gee, why would the casino want any of those things
to happen to its customers? LOL!

Quote: Paigowdan

Bob,
The drinks are a courtesy and convenience.
Some Casinos charge you for the drinks, and some don't.
You can order and drink what you like: vodka, whiskey, a pepsi, avian water, Hawaiian punch

The presence of the variety of the beverages offered does not constitute a mind-control plot.
It constitutes a selection to choose from, when you are thirsty.

Dan, I'm sorry to say that it sounds like you are starting to believe your own propaganda. I find it pretty much impossible to believe that alcohol is offered free to people who are gambling without the casino realizing that this can increase their profit. In fact, given the size and expertise of casinos, I find it pretty much impossible to believe that alcohol is offered free to people who gamble without the casino having at least a ball-park figure of how much it increases their profit.

Geez, Bob. You sound like some kind of puritan. What's wrong with a little consensual "evil"? I think I have a pretty good understanding of the social and emotional aspects of casinos, at least from the east coast perspective. We have young folks getting prettied up and playing Las Vegas, and we have old folks passing time and enjoying the buzz. I see working people employed at making sure they have an enjoyable time as they do it.

It's a service industry, so from that perspective it's just a transfer of money; nothing's getting built, or invented, or used to better the human race. But so what. All work and no play, or all play and no work.... you're either trolling, or you also hate sports, movies, music, restaurants, new cars, boats, and anything else that's extravagant. And you're either trolling, or you're a morals cop who wants to impose his values on everyone else because he just can't stand to see people having fun doing something he doesn't like.

My guess is that you're trolling.

Quote: Mosca

Geez, Bob. ... My guess is that you're trolling.

I think maybe he's still upset that he no longer has mkl and Jerry to fight with. For months I kept reading threads to see whether there was any topic that the three of them could agree on. Never saw a single one. I think he misses that interaction.

Quote: Mosca

Geez, Bob. You sound like some kind of puritan. What's wrong with a little consensual "evil"?

Where did I say its evil? I'm simply stating a fact
of life. There's nothing I like better at the end of
the day in Vegas than to relax in my hotels casino and
play $5 BJ and drink for free. The waitresses seem
to come to BJ far more often then they do roulette.

Quote: MarkAbe

Dan, I'm sorry to say that it sounds like you are starting to believe your own propaganda. I find it pretty much impossible to believe that alcohol is offered free to people who are gambling without the casino realizing that this can increase their profit. In fact, given the size and expertise of casinos, I find it pretty much impossible to believe that alcohol is offered free to people who gamble without the casino having at least a ball-park figure of how much it increases their profit.

This is the deal with that:
1. If drinks are free - then it's a conspiracy against the players.
2. If the casino charges for drinks - then the casinos are cheap, money grubbing bastards - and it's a conspiracy against the players.
3. If there is no beverage servcice or if the cocktail is no where to be seen - people are complaining - "where the hell IS she? WHAT KIND OF CASINO DOESN'T SUPPLY BEVERAGE SERVICE! They are so cheap it is a conspiracy against the players! We provide enough to the casino that they can AT LEAST offer us beverage service."

You know, MarkAbe, if the cocktail waitress actually said, "I'm sorry sir, you cannot order water, coffee or soda - you MUST have an alcolic beverage, and we will watch YOU drink it down!"
- Then I'd say you have a point.

Give people absolutely free will and free choice to:
1. drink,
2. not drink, or
3. drink soda
- via a beverage service as a courtesy service, and it's mind control.
- charge them or offer no service, and it's a money grubbing conspiracy.
ANYTHING a business provides as a customer service, and it's a conspiracy - if it is a casino doing it!
Unreal.

Quote: MarkAbe

In fact, given the size and expertise of casinos, I find it pretty much impossible to believe that alcohol is offered free to people who gamble without the casino having at least a ball-park figure of how much it increases their profit.

Possibly. But why speculate? How do profit margins compare among casinos that offer free drinks vs those that don't?

Quote: Paigowdan

1. If drinks are free - then it's a conspiracy against the players.

Yes and no. Free booze is part of the comp system.

"The lowest level of comp available at most casinos is free alcohol and other beverages. The second level of comp that many players earn is free meals. The next level of comps is usually free hotel rooms."

Free drinks are the first step in the loss leaders the
casino offers to keep you there and keep you
coming back so they can continue to pick your
pocket. Its all figured into the bottom line, just
like a dept store structures their prices to account
for shoplifters.

From Confessions of a Pit Boss:

"If you're serious about gambling, don't drink while you do it. Alcohol is a casino's best friend: It makes you do things no sane, rational person would ever think of doing, like betting your entire paycheck on red 23--again! In gambling jargon, a fish is an easy mark, and there's a reason casinos try to make you drink like one. The casino owners are going to do whatever they can to keep you there."

Quote: Paigowdan

5. It is generally not cheap entertainment, like renting a movie at RedBox....

Recently, I rented a movie from this humanless kiosk.....i'm hooked big time......

Quote: Nareed

Possibly. But why speculate? How do profit margins compare among casinos that offer free drinks vs those that don't?

Hardly a valid comparison. Tribal casinos are such lousy places the comparison on the basis of alcohol would be unfair. And "free drinks" is a meaningless term because even Terribles will fall into that category. I don't know if the waitress there was actually ashamed to be serving that watered-down swill but I felt embarassed for her when she had to serve that stuff. Yet it would fall under the category of free drinks.

Now Wynn turned cheapskate for awhile but I don't know what the current situation there is.

I don't think there has ever been a dispute that free lunch in a bar were generally salty items so people would buy more beer, I don't think anyone really disputes the free booze in a casino is to loosen player's wallets. And lets face it, they could dress those gals in Burkas if they really wanted to but there must be some sort of advantage to distracting and otherwise stimulating the players. Young, half-naked girls, alcohol ... and then sober well-reasoned financial decisions?

Quote: EvenBob

I've never read where they actually talk to dealers and floor people so bluntly, maybe this guy is unique.

I was looking at Southwest's annual report. They said they made $459 million in income in 2010. They also said they have $490 million in revenue from junk fees. They were particularly proud of three fees which brought in $119 million ($10 to board early, $75 to bring a small dog or cat into the cabin, and $50 for unaccompanied minor surcharge which was up from $25). They did not detail the other fees.

So if they wanted to be honest they would tell their customers that the nickel and dime fees amount to more money than the airline's income. They also average $5.10 for each one way segment.

To tie in with another thread management was concerned about the FAA increasing the maximum denied boarding compensation airlines must pay to passengers bumped from flights from $800 to $1,300.

Quote: EvenBob

Where did I say its evil? I'm simply stating a fact
of life. There's nothing I like better at the end of
the day in Vegas than to relax in my hotels casino and
play $5 BJ and drink for free. The waitresses seem
to come to BJ far more often then they do roulette.

You didn't, I did. I put it in quotes not because you said it, but because it's not really evil. Sorry if my construction was unclear.

Everything else you've written about casino gambling makes it sound like you're against it. It looks like pure capitalism to me, and risky capitalism at that; the current state of the industry is not all roses and gold, after all. For the rest of my take, I've already written it, no point in writing it again.

On the alcohol point only, I gotta go with Bob, Dan.

The alcohol is provided to playing folks for free in order to butter players up, not as a courtesy and convenience. The whole of the casino atmosphere is to loosen up inhibitions and make people play for longer. The longer they play, the more likely the house edge and negative variance is going to get them. The casino plays a vitually infinite bankroll against your piddly one, be it $20 or $20,000. In any case, math is on their side. For the casino to make a consistent profit and increase their table hold, math and time need to be on their side. To do that, casinos remove the clock, provide no windows, provide free drinks, have free entertainment, and give them comps available only at that casino, including discounted room rates, free food, and points. When dealers pay winnings, they attempt to pay you in bigger color so you bet bigger.

Let's face it. Some (not all) players play FOR the free drinks. There is a reason why table games get much much better drink service than slot games. Once you order a drink at a slot, you wait, and wait some more, sometimes 20 minutes for your drink to arrive, because the casino wants you playing at that slot machine. And that slot machine has fancy noises, bonus rounds, and whistles to keep you at that machine. At the tables, you're better larger sums of money, and therefore the drinks come quicker, because you make decisions on what to play. A clouded decision inevitably results in house edge. In 3CP, your drunkenness causes you to fold a K-8-2 hand when the strategy is to play it. In Blackjack, you decide to double down on that 8 because you feel that Ace coming. In Craps, you throw some money in the center. In PaiGow, you set your hand wrong, playing the three aces in your hand instead of splitting the third ace. ALL of this CAUSED by the tempatation of free alcohol. And how do I know this? My wife is severely hung over right now after blowing hundreds of dollars last night (with me) playing all of these games and making many of the wrong moves as above. She wouldn't be hung over if she was paying $8 a drink with "cocktail" service coming every five minutes. And why are the cocktail servers usually pretty women who are scantily clad? And yes, it's her personal responsibility. Did the casino stop her from these bad plays? No. Mission accomplished.

And yes, the player's clubs and level are meaningful to some. The 'gold' level at our local casino gomes with $65 meal credit and free valet parking. The gold level at the casino we're at now features express hotel checkin, express meal seating, parking on an exclusive level, discounted hotel rates, late checkout, early checkin, and so on and so forth. It's a meaningful benefit to get to that level of play. To get to gold level required I estimated about $40K of action. I don't care about any of those benefits. Others do.

Is it "evil"? No. The casino, however, is there to provide entertainment to most, but I think its methodology of keeping you playing is over the top. It's because they know that house edge x time = loss, and that the odds of you losing increase with the amount of time that you spend there. Casino personell like or dislike you based on your personality. Casino personnel also give you feigned respect based on your level of play. The differences between the two are obviously apparent if you have a brain.

I will pertain that it is the goal of the casino executive to create a problem gambler, as it is the problem gambler (5% of the general population) that generates a substantial part (40%) of its revenue. If the casino can setup the environment to keep you addicted and have that dopamine released at the right time and the right doses to your stupid brain, then it has an addict - their addict. They know how ineffective the problem gambling help lines are. The casino needs these problem gamblers to grow and expand their businesses.

Quote: boymimbo

And yes, it's her personal responsibility.

And that, in the end, is all that really matters.

You can get as drunk on free drinks as on drinks you pay for. Granted you're more likely to do so on free drinks, but it's still a choice. As Dan pointed out, no one at the casino forces you to drink. And if you order non-alcoholic beverages, these are also supplied for free.

So the casinos may be hoping you'll drink alcohol and lose more as a result. But the customer choses to drink anyway.

I'll repeat a question I made earlier: how do profit margins compare between casinso that offer free alcohol and those that don't.

Slightly off topic, but maybe not. Did anyone see Ken Burns's documentary on Prohibition on PBS last night ?
Is there a family resemblance between Dan and Carrie Nation ?

Missed it, but Ken Burns does some fine work. Carrie Nation was anti-alcohol. I am for free choice on drinking. I did like the little for the poke-in-the-eye plug! :)

Anyway, it is true that the convenience of beverage service is to keep people at the tables and machines in one major regard:
If there were no beverage service throughout the casinos, many players who drink would also have a session at the cocktail lounge - and not at the tables.

Casinos don't want players taking either smoke breaks or cocktail breaks - as it simply pulls them away from the tables, that is true.
Most people limit themselves fine, (some don't) - just stay in the pit area.

You can view casino beverage service as common business sense, a courtesy and a convenience (as I do), or you can view it as an evil and sinister plot (as many do).

I can tell you that there is NO way the casino can win in the view of some people, as either providing free service, charging for services, or lacking the service ALL meet with complaints and negative accusations of "casino conspiracy" - every one.

I'm not saying that the casino is an evil conspiracy, at all. People have free will.

They also have weaknesses, and casinos prey on those. Free alcohol, a "courtesy and convenience" leads players to make the wrong decisions at the table, to lose their inhibitions and to play for longer. That plays into the house edge x time formula quite well. Patrons are FAR more likely to play and drink for free rather than not play and drink for a fee. Canadian casinos must charge for their alcohol. Ontario has cocktail waitresses - they just charge $7 for a pint of beer. Not as many partake.

Nareed, I find it very doubtful that you will find a meaningful statistic linking casino revenue to free alcohol. There are far too many factors at play such as slot hold, table hold, number of tables, operations expenses, etc.

But one simply has to look at Detroit vs Windsor, Seneca Niagara vs Casino Niagara, where drinking and smoking free and allowed at one, and expensive and disallowed at the other, to see the obvious. Seneca Niagara is packed on weekends even though it's surrounded by crap, while FallsView fills up on the weekend night, it's filling up because of the tourist crowd.

Quote: boymimbo

A clouded decision inevitably results in house edge. In 3CP, your drunkenness causes you to fold a K-8-2 hand when the strategy is to play it. In Blackjack, you decide to double down on that 8 because you feel that Ace coming. In Craps, you throw some money in the center. In PaiGow, you set your hand wrong, playing the three aces in your hand instead of splitting the third ace.

More likely it will cause you to play @ 3CP blind, or to just play the Pairs Plus! (I don't drink anything but water in the casinos.)

I guess the drink issue depends. As a non-drinker since 1986 I'd say if they fix a normal to weak drink (I've heard complaints about this from my drinking friends at some casinos) they are not evil. But if they are fixing a drink like I fix some young lady who's come into my parlor......

Quote: boymimbo

Nareed, I find it very doubtful that you will find a meaningful statistic linking casino revenue to free alcohol. There are far too many factors at play such as slot hold, table hold, number of tables, operations expenses, etc.

I'm not looking for a link or correlation. But if free alcohol is effective at making extra profit for the casino, then by comapring the profit margins of free-alcohol vs charge-alcohol casinos we could determine whether that's even likely or not.

If it turns out free-alcohol casinos do have higher profits, then we can look at the why of it. Do people lose more because they make more decisions under the influence? or do such casinos draw more customers? For starters.

Yeah, Nareed, the problem with that no casino is apples to apples. An effective experiment would to be to look at a casino's profit before and after a drinking law came into effect, with the assumption that nothing else changes.

Nothing new here, In the 1950's card rooms provided meals even. If a guy went home for dinner he might not come back.

I assume originally gambling houses were generally the place to offer other illicit or at least unapproved activities -- and alcohol was just another thing offered. Or at least, I suspect that's how it evolved. I imagine in unregulated environments some people were just as likely to byob.

... No doubt too, goon squads were created and employed when the value of loose spending drunks, were overshadowed by belligerent losing drunks.

Quote: rxwine

... No doubt too, goon squads were created and employed when the value of loose spending drunks, were overshadowed by belligerent losing drunks.

EVENBOB is the resident expert in these matters.

Drinking, smoking and gambling - the trifecta of vice.