gambler
gambler
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August 23rd, 2011 at 5:10:23 PM permalink
Take the average gambler who goes to casino and gambles for an average time of 4 hours. The player has a choice of betting an average bet of $25 per hand for the four hours on roulette, 3 card poker, or craps ($5 pass line with 3x4x5x odds). Of the three games, obviously roulette has the biggest house advantage, while craps due to the odds has the lowest.

My question is does the average player notice a difference in house advantage over a short period like 4 hours? How,many hours would you speculate a person would have to play to start noticing a difference?
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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August 23rd, 2011 at 5:46:09 PM permalink
Oh they might imagine a difference right away in the same manner slot players declare a casino has tightened its slot machines but after a few drinks I don't think anyone really notices the rate at which they are losing money, particularly if its only four hours. You can lose your shirt at a craps table in just a few minutes and you can hang in there at roulette sometimes. Many players don't know what the house advantage is and think an extra green on the wheel is a good thing the same way having the dealer required to take another card on a soft 17 is a good thing. And those are the opinions they hold while sober. Its gets worse after a few drinks.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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August 23rd, 2011 at 5:56:26 PM permalink
It's a meaningless question.

The average person doesn't know or care about house edge. They simply play the game that they have more fun playing.

I mean, if they cared about the edge, Roulette players would play single zero rather than double zero.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Tiltpoul
Tiltpoul
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August 23rd, 2011 at 6:49:46 PM permalink
I agree; most players don't care about house edge in the short term. You could argue I would be one of those players. I like to visit a casino, and occasionally, I'll play a game I like with a higher house edge (e.g Ultimate Texas Hold Em), simply because I like the game. Heck, even the Wizard played an American Idol slot machine!

As far as the number of hours it would take before you feel the effect of house edge, I would say that is meaningless. Luck DOES play a factor PER INDIVIDUAL. The only person who cares about the house edge in the long run is.... the HOUSE. There could be a player who plays 6:5 6-deck games where you can only double on 10,11, no double after split, no surrender, who wins EVERY time they play on that table. It's POSSIBLE. In the long run, the table will make the money it's supposed to, but the individual may not see the difference.

If you look at my slot machine winnings, I'd be way ahead. I've hit some nice mini-jackpots, usually cash out as soon as I am $.01 up, and use Free Slot Play when you can't use it on VP. I hit a $1200 jackpot on a machine with a coupon. I can nearly guarantee you I've not lost $1200 in 8 years of gambling on a slot machine, and I've played well more than a total of 4 hours.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
Nareed
Nareed
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August 23rd, 2011 at 8:30:16 PM permalink
At the Excalibur in May '10 I played 3CP betting on ante and play only. Everyone else was playing Pair+ and the Progressive.

There was a man playing who bet more than the $5 minnimum and seemed more experienced. a newbie latched on to him for advice on when to fold and when to play. The newbie asked him, not me, why I wasn't playing the side bets. The man said "Well, the ante and play are statistically more likely to win."

So I'd say some average players do know what a hosue advantage is, even if they pay it no mind.

But that's ok. I don't play on house advantage criteria only. I do avoid the worse games/bets, but if I feel like playing a higher edge game I will. If I feel like playing slots, I take out a ticket for $0.01 I kept from the Rio. On it I wrote "Remember: from $20 to this in less than six minutes, 05/12/10" And then I go play something else :)
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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August 23rd, 2011 at 8:34:21 PM permalink
It is PAY TO PLAY.
The average player either knows or does not know the house egde.
If he were to be obessing about it, instead of having fun at gambling, he would not be playing. You pay your entertainment fee in the long run, usually.
If he does know about it, he makes the better bets and plays (pass line, Don't pass and come bets on dice, knowledable stratgey on Pai Gow, basic strategy PLUS card counting as endorsed here apparently [no comment as a "casino cop"], and Baccarat) and avoids Keno or weak slots/weak VP.

You use expert advice going in: Read this before you play on Mike's orders..

Come and play.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Tiltpoul
Tiltpoul
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August 23rd, 2011 at 8:39:32 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

At the Excalibur in May '10 I played 3CP betting on ante and play only. Everyone else was playing Pair+ and the Progressive.

There was a man playing who bet more than the $5 minnimum and seemed more experienced. a newbie latched on to him for advice on when to fold and when to play. The newbie asked him, not me, why I wasn't playing the side bets. The man said "Well, the ante and play are statistically more likely to win."

So I'd say some average players do know what a hosue advantage is, even if they pay it no mind.

But that's ok. I don't play on house advantage criteria only. I do avoid the worse games/bets, but if I feel like playing a higher edge game I will. If I feel like playing slots, I take out a ticket for $0.01 I kept from the Rio. On it I wrote "Remember: from $20 to this in less than six minutes, 05/12/10" And then I go play something else :)



Interestingly enough, I don't play TCP anymore, because I don't want to play the game without playing the Pairs Plus. My first trip to Vegas I played a lot of TCP even though the Flush was 3-1 (I didn't know how bad the HE was on the game). I hit four straight flushes on the trip, one with $25 up (Usually only had $10 on it, but hit a nice streak... the story on how I got it was interesting... hit it at the Sahara... sigh...)

ANYWAYS, I do avoid games that have a ridiculous high edge. I like Ultimate Hold Em, Blackjack, Craps (Pass line/odds and place 6/8), 9/6 JoB sometimes 9/5 or 8/6 if that's all there is, Pai Gow Poker and poker. I avoid side bets, except I do play the Trips when the HE is less than 3% and if I'm feeling lucky, I'll play 21+3, since the HE on that side bet is around 3%, and I do miss playing TCP. The Fortune Bonus on PGP is okay too.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
Nareed
Nareed
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August 23rd, 2011 at 8:58:25 PM permalink
Quote: Tiltpoul

Interestingly enough, I don't play TCP anymore, because I don't want to play the game without playing the Pairs Plus.



Because you'd rather be playing the side bets, or because the flack you get from everyone else?


Quote:

My first trip to Vegas I played a lot of TCP even though the Flush was 3-1 (I didn't know how bad the HE was on the game). I hit four straight flushes on the trip, one with $25 up (Usually only had $10 on it, but hit a nice streak... the story on how I got it was interesting... hit it at the Sahara... sigh...)



I played at the Fitz last year and when I doubled my $50 buy-in I started betting the pair+. I hit three straights and few pairs rather quickly, once beating a dealer pair of aces. Then I started losing. so I quit with $150 in hand. Not bad. But when I tried the same thing elsewhere I quickly lost. So...

Quote:

ANYWAYS, I do avoid games that have a ridiculous high edge.



Likewise.

But I will buy the odd lotto ticket now and then.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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August 24th, 2011 at 1:54:54 AM permalink
The Vegas Baby, Vegas attitude, the hookers, the liquor flowing freely, the music, the lights, bells and whistles and clang of quarters ... none of it is conducive to well reasoned calculations of anything. People go to Vegas for a fling... some financially, some sexually, some just enjoy Disneyland but don't go on all the rides that are available. Darn few carry a slide rule around with and analyze the hell out of everything. They see this gorgeous woman going by in a red dress and so they bet on red. And sometimes they win! When they lose, they take a drink. Its Vegas, Baby. Vegas! Besides, they are on a streak.
Tiltpoul
Tiltpoul
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August 24th, 2011 at 5:27:31 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Because you'd rather be playing the side bets, or because the flack you get from everyone else?



A little of both to be truthful. I avoided Caribbean Stud, because the $1 bet seems like a waste, but not playing it will nearly get you booted off the table. On a rare occasion, at a $5 table I might play some Let it Ride. I don't play the $1 on that in the Midwest, since most of the time, it only pays on 2 pair or Trips or better. Anytime I hit a decent hand, the players and dealer will comment on what I could have won. I point out that unless I hit a straight flush or Royal, it doesn't even pay enough to make that much of a difference to my bankroll, but losing the $1 does.

Anyway, I don't see much point in playing TCP if you're not going to play for the Pairs plus. Yes, it's a sucker bet, but at least straight flushes and trips hit enough to make it worth its time... if the House Edge is low enough.

Quote: Nareed



Likewise.

But I will buy the odd lotto ticket now and then.



Now that's something I never do... I don't gamble. ;-)
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park

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