MrPapagiorgio
MrPapagiorgio
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
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December 25th, 2009 at 2:04:42 PM permalink
During my play at Green Valley yesterday, I played most of the tables, one of which was the $10 6 deck shoe. A guy comes in next to me and buys in for $500. Within a few minutes of large bets, it's gone, and he buys in for another $500. Watching how he played, I saw him standing on 12 v 2, not hitting on soft 17 vs an 8 (and vs a 9), and standing on 15 v a 10. After watching him lose about 4 times when he would have otherwise won (I paid attention to the following cards, and he would have won), I saw him stand on the soft 17 again - usually I don't comment on obvious bad play, but he was just doing so poorly, we had chatted a little already, and he was losing so much, so I did mutter out, "the book does say to hit those", to which he gruffly replied "fuck the book". A few moments later he was buying in for another $1000. Fuck the book indeed.
So I says to him, I said "Get your own monkey!"
pocketaces
pocketaces
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
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December 25th, 2009 at 2:21:50 PM permalink
Certainly not uncommon. His worst play was the soft 17 - Its not even close to borderline vs the 8 or 9. Most players accept the hit on soft 17 as good (but have no use for hitting soft 18), so he is in the minority there.

Next, standing on 12 vs 2, while incorrect, is probably more common among players than hitting it. He is certainly giving up value here, but nothing wild. Standing on 15 is similar as its somewhat common as well and again only has a slightly worse expected value than the proper play. Overall of the three this is his 'least bad' play.

Therefore I would rate his soft 17 play as 'poor judgement' per your title and the rest as 'usual non-basic-strategy play'. However based on his comment about the book, I imagine that given the opportunity he probably would make many more even worse plays had he not lost so quick. Also betting such a high percentage of his bankroll gave him a high chance of ruin but I guess he likes the variance it brings.
DrEntropy
DrEntropy
Joined: Nov 13, 2009
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December 25th, 2009 at 3:25:23 PM permalink
Quote: MrPapagiorgio

I did mutter out, "the book does say to hit those", to which he gruffly replied "fuck the book". A few moments later he was buying in for another $1000. Fuck the book indeed.



I never offer unsolicited advice for the simple reason that the response you got seems typical. For some reason these same ploppies tend to freely offer you 'advice' when you hit a 12 v dealer 2 or when you split 9's vs a dealer 8.
"Mathematical expectation has nothing to do with results." (Sklansky, Theory of Poker).
Wizard
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Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
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December 25th, 2009 at 4:12:31 PM permalink
Quote: MrPapagiorgio

"fuck the book".



I think when I was grapling for a title for my book I wanted just "the book," but somebody had already published the bible under that title. Maybe if I ever write another, which I doubt, I could put "gambling" in a really small font between "the" and "book."
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
MrPapagiorgio
MrPapagiorgio
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 58
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December 25th, 2009 at 6:13:06 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Quote: MrPapagiorgio

"fuck the book".



I think when I was grapling for a title for my book I wanted just "the book," but somebody had already published the bible under that title. Maybe if I ever write another, which I doubt, I could put "gambling" in a really small font between "the" and "book."



Still waiting to hear someone exclaim "fuck gambling 102".
So I says to him, I said "Get your own monkey!"
Wavy70
Wavy70
Joined: Nov 3, 2009
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December 25th, 2009 at 7:33:08 PM permalink
Quote: MrPapagiorgio

During my play at Green Valley yesterday, I played most of the tables, one of which was the $10 6 deck shoe. A guy comes in next to me and buys in for $500. Within a few minutes of large bets, it's gone, and he buys in for another $500. Watching how he played, I saw him standing on 12 v 2, not hitting on soft 17 vs an 8 (and vs a 9), and standing on 15 v a 10. After watching him lose about 4 times when he would have otherwise won (I paid attention to the following cards, and he would have won), I saw him stand on the soft 17 again - usually I don't comment on obvious bad play, but he was just doing so poorly, we had chatted a little already, and he was losing so much, so I did mutter out, "the book does say to hit those", to which he gruffly replied "fuck the book". A few moments later he was buying in for another $1000. Fuck the book indeed.



A few months ago I was waiting for my wife outside the ladies room and was watching a woman play VP a few feet away. She was on a full pay machine and almost perfectly played the wrong move on every hand. Thinking to myself she could use a few pointers I suddenly came to the conclusion that if every one played FP VP machine perfectly they would soon disappear. So I figure she was taking one for the team.
I have a bewitched egg that I use to play VP with and I have net over 900k with it.
Wizard
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Wizard
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December 25th, 2009 at 7:43:47 PM permalink
Quote: Wavy70

So I figure she was taking one for the team.



I agree! That is another reason I don't give unsolicited advice. It takes bad gamblers to subsidize the good ones.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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December 26th, 2009 at 5:19:36 AM permalink
Quote: Wavy70

... So I figure she was taking one for the team.



I don't have the knowledge that some of you do. I'm thinking possibly I will be able to gamble more when I retire and am investigating advantage play as a newbie. But already there's no question in my mind anymore that this explains why such machines are even available. Even though, as the Wizard recently explained, Full Pay Deuces Wild is not a practical way to make a living or much fun to sweat a bankroll on, everyone playing these machines for fun *correctly* would mean they would lose money for the casino. This even though the average player waits forever to hit the Royal. For once the shoe would be on the other foot for the house.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder

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