Is Vegas The Next Detroit?
Quote: SOOPOOOK guys- I LOVE living where I do. There are no earthquakes, droughts, hurricanes, tornadoes. In my 20 years here there have been less than 10 days I couldn't travel because of snow. I played golf yesterday on a beautiful course. It was $27. My 3800 square foot house with 35,000 gallon pool on a small pond on an acre cost 230,000 19 years ago. It is probably 350,000 now. The longest commute is 25 minutes, from anywhere to anywhere. Professional hockey and football tickets are both affordable and available. Since Southwest came here I can fly most places cheaply. (Jet Blue, too). The University at Buffalo is a world class institution. There are beatiful beaches just across the bridge. Niagara falls is a short ride away (with casinos on both sides of the border). As people ask me about Buffalo, my answer is always the same.... It is a GREAT place to live IF you have a job. By the way, AZ, I think the bad smell is sometimes from the general mills cereal factory.
The only time I ever notice it is when I'm at a Sabres game. Where I live in Amherst (Williamsville) it looks like any suburb with parks, shopping malls, ice skating rinks, golf courses, etc...
You sound exactly as I did when I lived in Rochester. Downstate managers sometimes made fun of me, but the smart ones knew I had it made. Mosy so when they saw my house and what I paid. With my more cynical attitude today I might have never been let go as I would have accepted my job was to babysit, take abuse, and avoid lawsuits. That is another good part about WNY if you manage a business. My bosses were on LI 400 miles away and I never met anyone who can see that far. They hated taking 3 days for a trip to my office. Other people I met in other industries had similar stories.
Quote: AZDuffmanThere is a coke plant near Lackawana. If it was a coke plant the smell would be similar to the sulfur smell of burning matches. Buffalo has basically moved to Amherst/Clarence, which is where any good company wants to be.
Where did you live there?
Yup, that's it. But burning matches is a bit misleading. Pardon my crudeness, but it smelled like butthole. There is no other way to describe it. Fried eggs, burning matches, pre-1970's car exhaust...all smell like sulfur, all are somewhat pleasant. Lackawanna was the polar opposite of pleasant.
I grew up in Gowanda, about 35 minutes south. Famous for scenes from "The Natural" and "Planes, Trains and Automobiles" being filmed there. Infamous for the number of mentally questionable people who now roam the streets since the shutdown of the local mental hospital. I now live in the neighboring town of Collins, famous only for the uproar of utilities and emergency service personnel caused by the town board spontaneously changing the name of the town to 'Van Pelt' during the early '00's Bills QB struggle. I've never lived IN the city, I just say I'm from Buffalo so people have an idea. Like maybe you would'e said Rochester if you actually lived in Greece or Henrietta or West Chili.
Quote: SOOPOOOK guys- I LOVE living where I do. There are no earthquakes, droughts, hurricanes, tornadoes. In my 20 years here there have been less than 10 days I couldn't travel because of snow. I played golf yesterday on a beautiful course. It was $27. My 3800 square foot house with 35,000 gallon pool on a small pond on an acre cost 230,000 19 years ago. It is probably 350,000 now. The longest commute is 25 minutes, from anywhere to anywhere. Professional hockey and football tickets are both affordable and available. Since Southwest came here I can fly most places cheaply. (Jet Blue, too). The University at Buffalo is a world class institution. There are beatiful beaches just across the bridge. Niagara falls is a short ride away (with casinos on both sides of the border). As people ask me about Buffalo, my answer is always the same.... It is a GREAT place to live IF you have a job. By the way, AZ, I think the bad smell is sometimes from the general mills cereal factory.
The only time I ever notice it is when I'm at a Sabres game. Where I live in Amherst (Williamsville) it looks like any suburb with parks, shopping malls, ice skating rinks, golf courses, etc...
Quick objection - the GOOD smell is from General Mills. The Abomination...I mean, The Skyway....always smells like fresh Cheerios. No complaints there =)
Just to be clear, the coke plant smell has admittedly lessened this past decade. I'm recalling my history of the area, extending back into the '80s.
SOOPOO, your post is a great compliment to my rant. Personally, while worlds apart, I find them both to be equally true. I think that is the source of my hatred. The suburbs, both Amherst/Clarence up north by you, and Hamburg/Orchard Park on my side, really are nice. I suffer severe floods every decade or so down here on the Cattaraugus, but as far as disasters go, we're pretty well off. My salary here makes me 'well to do', where in other places I'd be living paycheck to paycheck. I too enjoy sub $30 golf on great courses. I too enjoy seeing the Leafs stomp the Sabres for under $100 (zing!). It's just when you look at it, and see these suburbs and what they have to offer, you'd expect the city to be the crowning jewel sitting in the middle of this array of sparkling suburbs. But what you wind up seeing is a turd. A festering wound. Maybe that's an incorrect analogy, but remember I come from the southtowns. My intro to Buffalo is Rt 5 through Lackawanna, through the old Bethlehem complex, through the old First Ward, over the Skyway....I wouldn't pay $100 an acre for ANY of that land. And it's LAKEFRONT. It should BE SOMETHING. At the very, very least, it should be green space. Parks would be nice. Business would be even nicer. But it's a dump, has been so for my entire life, and appears it will stay that way for the rest of it. It makes me angry and sad.
It's like you said, you have a beautiful property on the cheap. Great golf, great sports, good commute. Two solid national sports franchises with a fiercely loyal following, both accessable and both cheap. A billion gallons of fresh water and miles of lakefront property. Truely world class sport fishing. A natural wonder in the backyard in Niagara Falls. A sense of community that runs strong and deep. How is it then that we end up with the Buffalo we have? It irritates me to no end.
Quote: AZDuffmanYou sound exactly as I did when I lived in Rochester. Downstate managers sometimes made fun of me, but the smart ones knew I had it made. Mosy so when they saw my house and what I paid. With my more cynical attitude today I might have never been let go as I would have accepted my job was to babysit, take abuse, and avoid lawsuits.
My grandfather bought an old cabin cruiser(similar to one in the picture) and kept it at the Oak Mont Yacht Club (about 13 miles up the Allegheny River from Pittsburgh). Because he was a skilled carpenter, he rebuilt the boat so that it could comfortably sleep 2, with a kitchen and a toilet, and they could negotiate the three rivers, anchor the boat, and have a place to sleep, eat, drink and party. By the time he was through with it, it looked much better than the one in the above photo.
Oakmont Yacht Club
He bought a house another 5 miles up the river, near Manni's where he could put the boat up in the winter and work on it (wood boats take a lot of work). Every year the boat would get better and better.
Although he didn't work in the Alcoa plant, he retired about the time they closed the Alcoa plant in 1971. He and my grandmother never moved, and slowly the neighborhood decayed into industrial wasteland, with drug dealers throwing people out of cars into their backyard. Even after his stroke, he kept the boat at the yacht club, so they could party with their friends, but he could no longer drive it around the river.
Naturally, when he died, the house with all of the custom woodworking was worthless since the neighborhood was so bad. The boat wasn't worth more than a car, because though it was beautiful, most people can't take care of a wooden boat. I could have bought the boat from my grandmother, but keeping a boat in a trendy area of the country, like Annapolis, is mind-boggling expensive, compared to Pittsburgh.
I never wanted to end up like my grandparents, in poverty in an old shrinking city. But in hindsight, it wasn't a bad life. My grandfather got to fly in the war, and he spent his life tinkering and hanging out on boats. He enjoyed his career, and he and my grandmother had a happy marriage.
Pittsburgh ranks high in those lists of the the most livable cities. Since most people had visions of stygian darkness laboring in the blast furnaces, it is always a surprise.
The high growth cities have not proven to be nirvana, as advertised. The cost of living can be absurd, and buying a house has proven to be about as risky as throwing all your salary onto a craps table.
I had a friend who was an engineer in nuclear power plants. He said basically he had a career that no one wanted, he lived in places where most people didn't think they wanted to be, and he always worked strange hours. But as a highly trained individual in rural regions he could buy a nice house for ten months salary, he had more disposable income than almost everyone he knew, and his children were safe.
Quote: EvenBobIt was everything, including foreign car sales. And I really get tired of the 'white flight' thing. Its was blacks as well as whites that moved, thats why all those old black neighborhoods are empty. People love to think Detroit was all blacks on welfare and food stamps. Wrong. It had a huge and prosperous black middle class and they're the ones that moved. Cars are still made there, the industry is still the biggest employer, its just that its a shadow of its former self because improved manufacturing needs a fraction of the workers it once used.
Are you from Michigan, or more specifically, Detroit or its suburbs?
Quote: pacomartin[ Pittsburgh ranks high in those lists of the the most livable cities. Since most people had visions of stygian darkness laboring in the blast furnaces, it is always a surprise.
The high growth cities have not proven to be nirvana, as advertised. The cost of living can be absurd, and buying a house has proven to be about as risky as throwing all your salary onto a craps table.
I had a friend who was an engineer in nuclear power plants. He said basically he had a career that no one wanted, he lived in places where most people didn't think they wanted to be, and he always worked strange hours. But as a highly trained individual in rural regions he could buy a nice house for ten months salary, he had more disposable income than almost everyone he knew, and his children were safe.
I remember an article in the late 1990s when I had left here with the headline, "In an Aging City, Young People Live Like Kings." I was a long-format WSJ article (they must have had a freelancer local as Pittsburgh got more than its share of features) Anyways, it saif Pittsburgh was still big enough that a 20something could fairly easily get tickets to all kinds of things and were asked left and right to lead Lions, KoC, etc. If you didn't need the trendy place you lived well.
However, getting that experience was hard. The internet has opened it somewhat, but for years here everybody grew up with everybody else. Mill jobs went to people who had friends in the mill; bank jobs to people who worked at the bank, etc. The Strip had nothing on needing "juice" to get in a big ccompany. Few people started their own or worked for themselves as the company or the union "took care of you." To move outside your neighborhood was unheard of, to move across town you might as well be leaving the planet. Heck, even today a woman was amazed I was taking a short-term assignment in Ohio three hours away. I was like, "uh, I moved and drove to Arizona, remember? This is nothing."
My advice remains that, unless you want to work in health care which is plentiful, you have to leave and return. Find your big city and find roommates. Live that way a few years. Get some practical experience. Then return is possible. For my own story a bank here needed 30 or so mortgage processors and experience was totally needed. In AZ they needed 100+ at only one place. We hired people out of retail.
1.) Vegas committed the Cardinal Sin of betting on the Customer, and even taking loans out because of them. A clear case of betting what you ain't got, against disposible income. The disposable income dissapeared, then the Customer, and the bills are due. Theres this part of me that reflects, "Its the stupid economy", because the dummies just went bust. And Vegas is following.
2.) The real problem with the mortgage mess is that no one can find the original mortgage documents. Of course if they are found, we will know things we shouldn't know, like which ones were fill-in-the-blank, and which ones had short-interest CDO's (Puts is far more accurate) placed on them immediately, and how many times a single mortgage instrument was re-packaged into a pool of obligations with multiple bets placed upon them- call or put. Of course, when these things happen, there's a Clearing House involved, and some pools of obligations require a different Clearing House. There are noticible examples drummed up from time-to-time about forclosures in Fla., and the "perpetration of fraud upon the court" rulings due to the Bank's lack of prima facia evidence of the mortgage instrument (My clearing house ate it) and the payee's and payer's account statements that show payment towards a mortgage that ahem, does not exist. Result... the payer owns the house free and clear of encumberances. WTH, those squatters in Vegas are onto something, if they know who to pay.
3.) In all silliness, its so bad in Vegas, even Lake Mead is leaving. Its so bad in Detroit, even the cars are running on 30 proof. (Can they arrest my car for DUI?)
Quote: NandB
2.) The real problem with the mortgage mess
The mortgage mess is very easy to understand. Its like a bad check. You write the check and pass it to somebody you know. That person passes it to another chump, and so on. Eventually somebody has to take it to the bank and get told the truth. The difference is, the person passing the bad paper (the mortgages) charged a big fee every time he unloaded it.
Quote: NandBTheres this part of me that reflects, "Its the stupid economy", because the dummies just went bust. And Vegas is following.
Interesting question (maybe) where would Vegas be today without the overall recession? Just suffering a little? A couple added mega-casino projects?
Quote: rxwineInteresting question (maybe) where would Vegas be today without the overall recession? Just suffering a little? A couple added mega-casino projects?
That is an interesting question. When I write out a list of the projects that were cancelled or never got out of the planning stage it is staggering. There were plans in place to almost double the capacity of the city in a decade. It seems almost impossible to believe that the city wouldn't have been incredibly overbuilt even if the economy had remained roaring along at the same pace it was in 2005-2006.
Sheldon Adelson used to keep a copy of the Life Magazine cover from 1955, after the Riviera was finished, that said Las Vegas-Is the Boom Overextended? on the cover. He seemed to feel that it proved something.
While it is easy to say that gambling is something you can do with dice and cards anywhere, you don't need to fly to the desert. It does remind you how much of the economy is based on stuff that is hardly necessary to sustain life.
Quote: pacomartin
It does remind you how much of the economy is based on stuff that is hardly necessary to sustain life.
Thats it in a nutshell. During the last Depression (which we're in now, wait and see), people learned to get by with the bare necessities. We're heading there now, people have money but they aren't spending it. It wasn't till about 1933 that everybody realized we were in a full blown Depression, and it will be 2012 until it really hits home this time. I know two girls who just graduated from college last month and they can't find any work at all, let alone in their fields. Luckily they both still live at home. One of them is getting married in the fall and her fiance just graduated from college and has a summer job parking cars. They're bloody idiots if they get married.
Quote: VegasVic14Are you from Michigan, or more specifically, Detroit or its suburbs?
Still awaiting a reply from EvenBob as he has made several questionable statements about Detroit.
Quote: EvenBobFor about the 100th time, I was born here and except for 8 years, have lived here all my life. So what. I don't live in Dteroit, but I've been there a thousand times. Swell place.
I really doubt you've been to Detroit "1,000 times", if at all. Your over-generalization about the city of Detroit is nothing but ignorant blather. I am a life-long resident of Michigan, the last 30+ years in metro Detroit. Over those years, I have spent quite a bit of time in the city, both on business and for pleasure. You are no more of an expert on Detroit than I am on Las Vegas. Accordingly, I have not attempted to analyze the situation Las Vegas is in but instead I leave it to the "experts" living there to provide opinion. You best do the same thing and leave the analysis of Detroit to those of us who have first hand knowledge.
Quote: VegasVic14A few errors in your thinking: The white flight from Detroit began with the 1967 riots, and pretty much was done by the 1990's. Foreign car sales did not "kill Detroit". These things did: flight to the suburbs by the middle class changed the job base in the city, complete mismanagement of the city from top to bottom by everyone from Mayors Coleman Young to Kwame Kilpatrick, total incompetence and outright thievery by the administrators of the Detroit Public School system and the recent demise (and comeback) of the Big 3 due in part to UAW greediness and their belated failure to adjust to the times.
Wayne County had the largest population decrease (by percentage and absolute numbers) of the 100 largest counties in the country (which total to 38.5% of the population of the country). It tends to be America's poster child.
Adjoining counties: Oakland, Macomb, Washtenaw, and Monroe all increased in population. But outside of the city of Detroit, the population of Wayne county dropped by a net of a mere 3,085 people out of over a million or -0.28%.
These are the seats of the 7 counties out of 100 whose population dropped by more than 1/3 % on average per year on average: Detroit, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Chicago, and Buffalo.
I am looking for opinions on how it feels to be in one of those counties. In the next few decades there are going to be many more counties with no growth. As a matter of fact, most of the developed world lives in places without population growth. It often isn't fun to be in a county with high growth numbers.
I can imagine that a lot of those million people who live in Wayne county outside of Detroit are just fine with no population growth.
Incidentally, here are the counties on the other end of the spectrum, given by county seat and state since the county names are not as recognizable
Las Vegas , Nevada
Raleigh , North Carolina
Denton , Texas (north of Fort Worth)
McKinney , Texas (north of Dallas)
Quote: VegasVic14Your over-generalization about the city of Detroit is nothing but ignorant blather. I am a life-long resident of Michigan, the last 30+ years in metro Detroit.
All I know about Detroit is what I see on Hardcore Pawn. Have you been to American Jewelry and Loan? If that show is accurate, then I want nothing to do with Detroit.
And if you're a Detroit resident, why the VegasVic moniker?
Quote: VegasVic14I really doubt you've been to Detroit "1,000 times", if at all.
I've been to the casinos in Detroit 100's of times, I think that counts. I also used to go to the gun shows in the 80's and 90's in Detroit, does that count? I never claimed to be an expert on Detroit. And I'm certainly not the only one comparing Detroit to Vegas, did you see the article I posted? I've been going to Detroit all my life for various reasons, its a hole, its always been a hole, and will always be a hole. Its always been the laughing stock of MI and its no different today. Ever since the 67 riots when the brain trust there destroyed half the businesses and never rebuilt them, Detroit has been a swell place. Enjoy it.
Quote: zippyboyAll I know about Detroit is what I see on Hardcore Pawn. Have you been to American Jewelry and Loan? If that show is accurate, then I want nothing to do with Detroit.
And if you're a Detroit resident, why the VegasVic moniker?
Some parts of the whole eastern side of MI is like visiting a 3rd world country. Take a leisurely drive thru Flint sometime, you'll know you're there by the bars on all the windows and doors of the houses. Even the basement windows have bars. It has that cozy feel of a Soviet gulag in the 1970's.
What's wrong with him? Can't grow pot, smuggle cocaine or deal Oxycontin? Tell him, he has got to go where the money is! And there ain't no money in parking cars! There ain't no more money to be made in killing beaver so some English dandy can wear a fashionable hat. Ask any craps dealer in Vegas: you either deal to crack sellers or you deal to crack users.Quote: EvenBoband her fiance just graduated from college and has a summer job parking cars.
Quote: FleaStiffWhat's wrong with him? Can't grow pot, smuggle cocaine or deal Oxycontin? Tell him, he has got to go where the money is! And there ain't no money in parking cars!
Actually, he's parking cars at an exclusive country club and is making fantastic tips. He does it every summer and its a seasonal job. At these big joints, you pull up in your Escalade and the 'boy' gets yours clubs out of the back and puts them in your golf cart and parks your SUV. They get tipped for parking it and bringing it up when you're done. Huge money, all cash.
Ah, so he did learn something useful in college. Get into an all cash business!Quote: EvenBobHuge money, all cash.
This is a huge problem. Imagine your selling a hard to get collectible item on Ebay and the day after you list it, 10 other people list the same thing. This will make the value of your item plummet. Same thing in real estate. The banks can't hold the foreclosed properties forever, when they start putting them on the market, hundreds at a time, the people who are already underwater will see their property go down even further. So that means more foreclosures, more abandoned mortgages, its a never ending cycle until the economy improves, which it isn't. Who knows where the bottom is in Vegas, they sure haven't reached it yet.
Quote: EvenBobThis is a huge problem. Imagine your selling a hard to get collectible item on Ebay and the day after you list it, 10 other people list the same thing. This will make the value of your item plummet. Same thing in real estate. The banks can't hold the foreclosed properties forever, when they start putting them on the market, hundreds at a time, the people who are already underwater will see their property go down even further.
I guess the market for arson will greatly improve.
He is a hard working kid who wants to marry your daughter. Now just exactly who is the idiot.
" The shame of youth is that it is wasted on the young." They are in LOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote: buzzpaffThey're bloody idiots if they get married. He is a hard working kid who wants to marry your daughter. Now just exactly who is the idiot.
My daughter? What the hell are you talking about? Its obvious who the idiot is here.
Quote: EvenBobI've been to the casinos in Detroit 100's of times, I think that counts. I also used to go to the gun shows in the 80's and 90's in Detroit, does that count? I never claimed to be an expert on Detroit. And I'm certainly not the only one comparing Detroit to Vegas, did you see the article I posted? I've been going to Detroit all my life for various reasons, its a hole, its always been a hole, and will always be a hole. Its always been the laughing stock of MI and its no different today. Ever since the 67 riots when the brain trust there destroyed half the businesses and never rebuilt them, Detroit has been a swell place. Enjoy it.
If the demise of Detroit began in 1967 (stated above), why did you write this about Las Vegas: "residents are leaving in droves, just like they did in Detroit 10 years ago"? Your original premise is off by over 30 years, which is significant.
What brings you to Detroit on the average of over 8 times a year for the last 12 years if the city is so bad?
Quote: zippyboyAll I know about Detroit is what I see on Hardcore Pawn. Have you been to American Jewelry and Loan? If that show is accurate, then I want nothing to do with Detroit.
And if you're a Detroit resident, why the VegasVic moniker?
I have never seen that show. I have better things to do.
As far as my name... I like Las Vegas.
Quote: VegasVic14If the demise of Detroit began in 1967 (stated above), why did you write this about Las Vegas: "residents are leaving in droves, just like they did in Detroit 10 years ago"? Your original premise is off by over 30 years, which is significant.What brings you to Detroit on the average of over 8 times a year for the last 12 years if the city is so bad?
LOL, who died and made you Hamilton Burger? (where's that dang block function again? Oh, there it is.)
I think William Talman died in 1968
Quote: pacomartin
I think William Talman died in 1968
In all the years Perry Mason was on, did he ever win one case against Mason? It was a dumb show by todays standards, where was the drama if you knew he was going to win every single case?
Quote: EvenBobIt was a dumb show by todays standards,
Yeah, we all know today's programs are targeted towards to intellectual elite, like Jersey Shore, Keeping up with the Kardashians, 16 and Pregnant, Toddlers and Tiaras, The Bachelor, 1000 Ways to Die and my favorite stupid show on SpikeTV right now, MANswers.
Hard to imagine how dumb that show must've been by today's standards.
Quote: FleaStiffI wonder if we might soon see an additional casino in Detroit. One with a rather low construction cost.
I dunno, Greektown filed bankruptcy a couple years ago and with all the new casinos opening in MI, and a falling population, I don't see the customer base for a new casino in Detroit.
Quote: EvenBobLOL, who died and made you Hamilton Burger? (where's that dang block function again? Oh, there it is.)
Put your money where your mouth is. Answer the questions.
If the demise of Detroit began in 1967 (stated above), why did you write this about Las Vegas: "residents are leaving in droves, just like they did in Detroit 10 years ago"? Your original premise is off by over 30 years, which is significant.What brings you to Detroit on the average of over 8 times a year for the last 12 years if the city is so bad?
Quote: EvenBobI dunno, Greektown filed bankruptcy a couple years ago and with all the new casinos opening in MI, and a falling population, I don't see the customer base for a new casino in Detroit.
Yeah, you're right on top of what is taking place in Detroit.
http://www.detnews.com/article/20110510/BIZ/105100413
LOL, yeah, Detroit needs another casino.
Quote: EvenBob"Greektown was the only gaming hall to falter, posting a 1 percent revenue loss to $31.7 million from last year."
LOL, yeah, Detroit needs another casino.
You don't have any idea what Detroit needs or doesn't need, so quit pretending that you do.
Quote: EvenBobLOL, yeah, Detroit needs another casino.
One thing they teach you in economics is not to use the word need or the word want. Although people routinely use both of them.
In New Jersey the level of gambling at the 11 casinos is down to what the level was at the top 4 only five years ago. It is tempting to say they don't need the smallest casinos, and they should concentrate on a single district or two (instead of arguably five districts).
But, still investors are buying the oldest and most dilapidated casinos and renovating.
Quote: DeMangoWe have a serious troll problem on this board. And all they do is post inane comments and then have the audacity to complain about MKL and Jerry Singer.
Not that I entirely disagree, but truthfully mkl and Singer, along with his myriad sock puppets, are in a class by themselves. Übertrolls, if there is such a word. Ordinary trolls, if that is the case, can complain about them.
Quote: DeMangoWe have a serious troll problem on this board. And all they do is post inane comments
This is meaningless without examples. Got the cajones to list any?
Quote: EvenBob"Greektown was the only gaming hall to falter, posting a 1 percent revenue loss to $31.7 million from last year."
LOL, yeah, Detroit needs another casino.
MGM Grand’s revenue for May was $51.2 million, up 4.8% year over year. MotorCity Casino was up 1.1% to $38.8 million, and Greektown was up 1.2% to $30 million.
Quote: DeMangoYes EvenBob is a great example. Take the prolific posters here. What do they have to say. When they are wrong do they take correction? Do they add anything of any use to the conversation or are they just adding to their post count?
Again, give examples. You're reminding me of Sean Hannity on the radio. He gets callers all the time that say he does this and he does that, and when Sean asks for examples, they never have any. So who are these posters that have nothing to say. I haven't noticed any that fit that description.
One of them looks a lot like the guy you see when you're brushing your teeth. I may not have a lot to say but I don't have over 2000 posts to prove it. It's just my opinion Bob but you do seem to make a point of taking the negative side to things and look for the contrarian view while standing firm that your premise is the only correct one. It's also my opinion that you used to rail against mkl for exactly these same things. Kinda funny... in my opinion.Quote: EvenBobAgain, give examples. You're reminding me of Sean Hannity on the radio. He gets callers all the time that say he does this and he does that, and when Sean asks for examples, they never have any. So who are these posters that have nothing to say. I haven't noticed any that fit that description.
Quote: TheNightflyIt's just my opinion Bob but you do seem to make a point of taking the negative side to things
Again, give examples. Without examples I have no idea what you mean, and have no idea how to improve so everyone here loves me. Is that our objective?
Quote: EvenBobAgain, give examples. Without examples I have no idea what you mean, and have no idea how to improve so everyone here loves me. Is that our objective?
One way to improve would be to answer the questions I put before you several times without giving more snarky responses.
