Legal question

I am separating this out from my previous Vegas Thoughts thread.

Is it legal for a casino to hire a card counter who would then signal the dealer to shuffle if the count became player favorable?
If yes, would it be legal for the casino to use the card reading device and do the same thing?

Quote: SOOPOO

Is it legal for a casino to hire a card counter who would then signal the dealer to shuffle if the count became player favorable? If yes, would it be legal for the casino to use the card reading device and do the same thing?

When you are the major industry in town, its legal to do just about anything.
I think the MindPlay table case decided this issue. The trouble is that this "hiring a player" would be an absurd expense. It won't save them from anything, the casino would only want to change the rules. A rule change doesn't require them to make payroll deductions or provide health benefits. And simply shuffling more frequently would be cheaper than scheduling a break for all these counter-shils.

Should be. That's just using their brain.

Quote: FleaStiff

When you are the major industry in town, its legal to do just about anything.
I think the MindPlay table case decided this issue. The trouble is that this "hiring a player" would be an absurd expense. It won't save them from anything, the casino would only want to change the rules. A rule change doesn't require them to make payroll deductions or provide health benefits. And simply shuffling more frequently would be cheaper than scheduling a break for all these counter-shils.

Absurd expense? I was watching a $500 min full table at Cosmo. Probably $5k bet per deal total. You don't think it would be worth the $30 per hour to hire a card counting kid to only deal when the odds were in the casino's favor? Remember, all the house odds calculations assume a new deck (or decks). If you eliminate the favorable player situations and only leave the more advantageous to the house situations, a game which has a calculated edge of .5% will now have a much higher house edge. I would agree with you that at a $10 table the expense might not be worth it, but at a higher limit table it would definitely be worth it in the short term. If players caught on and moved to another casino then of course it might not be worth it in the long term.

I see what you mean.
I, quite naturally, was only thinking of a five dollar 6:5 table.

Of course at a 500.00 table, the floorperson is going to be hovering nearby much of the time. Still I do think the casino would prefer to rely on procedure manuals than shills. And why would the casino want to waste seats that could otherwise be filled with a 500.00 player!!
I do know that in the poker room there are shills and proposition players. Shills are paid and banked by the house and proposition players play with their own money, but there is a sign disclosing this somewhere. I don't think a casino has a sign about shills. They used to be common at a real Baccarat table, the same way a restaurant seats its early customers near the window so as to be more inviting to passersby.

Quote: SOOPOO

a casino to hire a card counter who would then signal the dealer to shuffle if the count became player favorable

I have witnessed this first hand at El Cortez. The pit person was counting on a single deck game. If the count ever went positive she told the dealer to shuffle up. If the count was negative, keep playing deep into the deck.

Quote: FleaStiff

I see what you mean.
I, quite naturally, was only thinking of a five dollar 6:5 table.

Of course at a 500.00 table, the floorperson is going to be hovering nearby much of the time. Still I do think the casino would prefer to rely on procedure manuals than shills. And why would the casino want to waste seats that could otherwise be filled with a 500.00 player!!
I do know that in the poker room there are shills and proposition players. Shills are paid and banked by the house and proposition players play with their own money, but there is a sign disclosing this somewhere. I don't think a casino has a sign about shills. They used to be common at a real Baccarat table, the same way a restaurant seats its early customers near the window so as to be more inviting to passersby.

Who said anything about a seated player? Anyone standing nearby watching can count. And signal the dealer to shuffle.

The dealer could just keep their own count and shuffle as needed. That could be one of the qualifications in order to be promoted to the high limit tables.