Awful, awful 'Fun' casino

Most of you know I didn't make it to Vegas this Christmas due to the terrible English weather. But that didn't stop me visiting a few casinos over the festive period, I won a bit, I lost a bit, I ended up a little bit down (as expected) and tried to make the most of the worst Christmas ever!

On the 28th of December a local bar/club was hosting a charity casino night with games provided by some company that offers casino nights for bachelor parties and weddings. So I thought I would go along and see how it went.

For £40 (about $60) you got $10,000 in play money, you can stop at any time you like and 'cash in' your chips and score based on your count, the winner of the night got £500 prize money and a night out at said club with some drinks and food thrown in. I guess there was about 200 people at the event, so they made a nice £8,000 before expenses, and at the end of the night announced that £7,500 had been raised for the charity, so either I am bit out with my estimation of the attendance, or the donation was pretty fair. The entry fee also included some free drinks, and a pretty good buffet.

Unfortunately the games were anything but fair.

Blackjack.
8 decks, from a shoe. Dealer hits soft 17. Only split once, Aces one card. Only double on 10 or 11. Blackjack pays even money, dealer wins all ties, and a dealer 22 is a push. How bad is that?

Roulette.
Double zero, wins paid 34-1. ALL outside bets paid even money!

Tri Card Poker.
Not sure this game was even allowed without approval from prime games? Dealer needed at least a pair to qualify, no bonus for straight or higher. Pair plus, pair 1-1 Flush 3-1 Straight 4-1 3ofK 20-1 StFlush 25-1

Texas hold em.
Poker table with 10 seats, no limit holdem. No maximum buy-in, blinds were $200-$200, when I asked why both blinds were the same, I was told it created more action, which I agree is correct. Spent most of my time at this table, cashed out $24,000 ish.

Winner was a young lady, with an unbelievable $109,000! How the hell she got that I will never know.
The night was pretty good on the whole, all the dealers knew what they were doing, but whoever designed the night, did not. I don't understand why the rules had to be so bad, even if they offered a player advantage, it would be more fun. Surely?

Agreed. Those are horrible rules.

It is universally understood (except by whoever set this one up) that when you're playing with funny money, the rules would be the same as the most favorable casino rules found anywhere, or even go beyond to make it a positive expectation.

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Roulette.
Double zero, wins paid 34-1. ALL outside bets paid even money!

Wait a sec... The dozens paid even money too? Horrendous!

What the hell were they thinking?

With all that crap going on, I have to ask: How much was the rake at the poker tables?!?!?

Quote:

Winner was a young lady, with an unbelievable $109,000! How the hell she got that I will never know.

W.A.G.: Make a couple big straight up roulette bets that hit, then play conservatively for the rest of the night.

Yes the dozens paid even money. And people were betting on them!

The rake was not displayed, but looked to be around 10%, with no cap. Which is also very bad, but I figured it was my best chance of making some profit.

I believe the young lady in question was more than friendly with some of the dealers, she had a very low cut dress on, I would of given her extra chips to watch her lean over the roulette table too ;-)

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Agreed. Those are horrible rules.

It is universally understood (except by whoever set this one up) that when you're playing with funny money, the rules would be the same as the most favorable casino rules found anywhere, or even go beyond to make it a positive expectation.

Well, it's for charity, so you're supposed to see it as a donation. The thing is, if I understand correctly, you could cash out the funny money for real pounds sterling on a pro-rate basis according tot he initial buy-in in real money (or words to that effect). In such a case, with positive expectation games the charity would lose money.

BTW, WizardofEngland, too bad about your trip. I hope you got your money back, or at least most of it. I also wish you better luck next time.

No, you could not cash out. Like you say it was for charity after all.

I still have yet to get the refund, but its looking like I qualify for £1,500 in compensation. Virgin claimed the weather was out of their control. Yet 90% of flights from London Gatwick flew that day. So I kind of have them on that. I would be happy with free flights for later in the year. I would be looking to come out around the time of the royal wedding. I am self employed to any time off work loses me money.

Quote: WizardofEngland

No, you could not cash out. Like you say it was for charity after all.

Sorry, my mistake. You did say "cash in" not "cash out."

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I still have yet to get the refund, but its looking like I qualify for £1,500 in compensation. Virgin claimed the weather was out of their control. Yet 90% of flights from London Gatwick flew that day. So I kind of have them on that. I would be happy with free flights for later in the year. I would be looking to come out around the time of the royal wedding. I am self employed to any time off work loses me money.

My parents had a problem when Mexicana stopped flying, as they had tickets for Florida. They'd paid with American Express, though, and AMEX got them their money back sooner than they would have through regular channels. The weather may not be Virgin's fault, but they still failed to provide a flight, so they should return the money paid for it.

Quote: WizardofEngland

Winner was a young lady, with an unbelievable $109,000! How the hell she got that I will never know.

Let enough men line up and pay her with funny money and she is a shoe-in for the 500 in real money!

Actually, the rules and house edges are not all that bad. Remember, you have to keep things simple. The players don't really know how to play and the dealers usually don't know how to deal, so simplicity is the key. Festive atmosphere, the word charity mumbled every now and then ... and just keep raking the money in.

WOE, you missed out. One of the games you described has a HUGE player advantage. I won't spoil it for everyone else, but it's easy to find.

"Charity casinos" should be avoided by serious gamblers.

This summer I was in New Hampshire on vacation, and found out that a "charity casino" had opened at a recently defunct dog track.

Horrible rules, as you've described, with horrible payots on craps bets, with a four dollar max bet.

Ah well, when you're the only game in town ...

Good for "scratching that itch" and for nothing more.

Quote: FinsRule

WOE, you missed out. One of the games you described has a HUGE player advantage. I won't spoil it for everyone else, but it's easy to find.

I am guessing it was the pair or higher to qualify on tri card poker?

I did wonder about it, but assumed that because the other games were so bad, that it too was a sucker game.

How much of an advantage was it?

Quote: MrV

Ah well, when you're the only game in town ... Good for "scratching that itch".

That itch can be troublesome though.
Heck, all these "internet cafes" that open up. They rent internet access, even if the shopping center is a free hot spot, and the people choose to play gambling games on the internet. In other words, an end run around the no-bingo slot machines allowed ordinances.

Quote: FinsRule

WOE, you missed out. One of the games you described has a HUGE player advantage. I won't spoil it for everyone else, but it's easy to find.

I thought that too. Not sure what the player edge would be but I'm sure it's well into double digits.

Quote: WizardofEngland

I am guessing it was the pair or higher to qualify on tri card poker?

I did wonder about it, but assumed that because the other games were so bad, that it too was a sucker game.

How much of an advantage was it?

It's like banking the dealer betting on a 'pair plus' wager except that you are only losing even money if the dealer gets a pair or better. The house edge, in Las Vegas, is around 7%, and that is with paying bonuses, so my guess is that it's up around the 20%+ figure.

Yes, exactly. Dealer will get a pair or better about 25% of the time. You don't even need to look at your cards, you just play each hand. If you're betting $100 a hand, in 4 hands, they don't qualify 3 times. You make $300 there. On the 4th hand, they qualify, and worse case scenario, you lose $200. You can still beat them if your hand is better which I guess it will be 25% of the time. Then you win $200. So without a calculator, and by using rough averages, in 16 hands you win $1200 on them not qualifying, $200 on the one time you both qualify and you win, and you lose $600 on him qualifying and you not. $800 profit in 16 hands = $50 a hand. You're betting $200 a hand, so a player advantage of 25%?

Quote: FinsRule

Yes, exactly. Dealer will get a pair or better about 25% of the time. You don't even need to look at your cards, you just play each hand. If you're betting $100 a hand, in 4 hands, they don't qualify 3 times. You make $300 there. On the 4th hand, they qualify, and worse case scenario, you lose $200. You can still beat them if your hand is better which I guess it will be 25% of the time. Then you win $200. So without a calculator, and by using rough averages, in 16 hands you win $1200 on them not qualifying, $200 on the one time you both qualify and you win, and you lose $600 on him qualifying and you not. $800 profit in 16 hands = $50 a hand. You're betting $200 a hand, so a player advantage of 25%?

Actually, it's even higher :-0 You're only betting $100 per hand so the player edge is close to 50% !!!

You need to bet another $100 on the play bet, and you're making the bet every hand, so I would think the calculation should be on a $200 bet.

Quote: FinsRule

You need to bet another $100 on the play bet, and you're making the bet every hand, so I would think the calculation should be on a $200 bet.

Yes, you're right, I was too tunnel-visioned on the 'pair plus' single bet :-)