darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
  • Threads: 290
  • Posts: 11100
October 17th, 2023 at 11:13:49 AM permalink
One thing I always get asked is how can I go against casino rules. If the casino has rules as well as terms and conditions then I am in their "house" and need to abide by their rules and their terms and conditions.

I don't think people who say this have any real idea of what casino rules and T&C actually state but here is an example of Resorts World terms and conditions.

You agree by gambling in their facilities that you will bring no lawsuit or claims against them. However if you do, those claims will be pursuant to Malaysian law (BTW US law is if the location of an incident and the individual live in the same city then that's the venue. In fact so does Malaysian law so right away this T&C is ridiculous.

You also agree that if you win in court damages are restricted to 100 Malaysian ringgit (which last I checked was about $18.)

I also checked Malaysian court and in order to file a case you must have residency in Malaysia with a valid Malaysian court address.

Does anyone here with a court case against Resorts world appreciate someone telling then it's their house their rules and they need to fly to Malaysia, get an apartment and file a case to win a potential $18?





For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
MDawg
MDawg
Joined: Sep 27, 2018
  • Threads: 36
  • Posts: 6661
Thanks for this post from:
rainman
October 17th, 2023 at 11:23:46 AM permalink
Without even researching this I suspect that this post is completely wrong. No way a casino in the U.S. is imposing a Malaysian forum selection clause on guests. D.Oz must have located some general Genting Group rules, versus the specific rules that apply to the entity (probably an LLC) that manages that particular Genting casino.

And even if the U.S. casino tried something like that, it would not hold up in court, if the action ever got to court that is.
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
MDawg
MDawg
Joined: Sep 27, 2018
  • Threads: 36
  • Posts: 6661
October 17th, 2023 at 11:27:17 AM permalink
For example,

https://www.rwlasvegas.com/press/resorts-world-las-vegas-llc-announces-its-entry-into-an-amendment-and-extension-of-its-existing-senior-secured-credit-facilities/

Formed on February 26, 2013, Resorts World Las Vegas LLC is the owner and operator of Resorts World Las Vegas. If something happens at RW Vegas, I am sure that the lawsuit would be against RWLV LLC, not Genting.
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
  • Threads: 290
  • Posts: 11100
October 17th, 2023 at 11:35:14 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

For example,

https://www.rwlasvegas.com/press/resorts-world-las-vegas-llc-announces-its-entry-into-an-amendment-and-extension-of-its-existing-senior-secured-credit-facilities/

Formed on February 26, 2013, Resorts World Las Vegas LLC is the owner and operator of Resorts World Las Vegas. If something happens at RW Vegas, I am sure that the lawsuit would be against RWLV LLC, not Genting.
link to original post



The T&C for NY location can be found right on their website.

It's under "Terms and Conditions " sections 13 1-5for attorneys who have difficulty doing research.

https://rwnewyork.com/genting-rewards/
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
MDawg
MDawg
Joined: Sep 27, 2018
  • Threads: 36
  • Posts: 6661
October 17th, 2023 at 11:36:57 AM permalink
https://rwnewyork.com/about/

The Casino is operated by Genting New York LLC d/b/a Resorts World New York City.

So again, I am sure you could sue that LLC for anything that happened at that property, assuming you had a cause of action that was lawsuit worthy to begin with.
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
  • Threads: 290
  • Posts: 11100
October 17th, 2023 at 11:38:24 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

https://rwnewyork.com/about/

The Casino is operated by Genting New York LLC d/b/a Resorts World New York City.
link to original post



And Resorts world NYC LLC has on its website precisely what I said and showed.

Is your argument that you refuse to read the evidence because you know better?

Are you refuting that they have those in the T&C?
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
MDawg
MDawg
Joined: Sep 27, 2018
  • Threads: 36
  • Posts: 6661
October 17th, 2023 at 11:40:27 AM permalink
You're like me in my first year or two of martial arts training. More dangerous to myself than I was when I knew nothing, because I THOUGHT I knew something, but really didn't.

Talk to me when you get your black belt.
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
  • Threads: 290
  • Posts: 11100
October 17th, 2023 at 11:40:51 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

https://rwnewyork.com/about/

The Casino is operated by Genting New York LLC d/b/a Resorts World New York City.

So again, I am sure you could sue that LLC for anything that happened at that property, assuming you had a cause of action that was lawsuit worthy to begin with.
link to original post



Well I agree you can sue in NYC.

Perhaps we are arguing the same thing.

My point in the OP is that terms and conditions at casinos are worthless because they say things that doesn't even have legal standing.

You are arguing someone could indeed sue in NYS and not have to fly to Malaysia so we actually agree.

But the T&C do state you have to go to Malaysia
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
  • Threads: 290
  • Posts: 11100
October 17th, 2023 at 11:43:07 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

You're like me in my first year or two of martial arts training. More dangerous to myself than I was when I knew nothing, because I THOUGHT I knew something, but really didn't.

Talk to me when you get your black belt.
link to original post



A person is always dangerous to themselves when they admit they didn't even look at the actual evidence.

Suggestions for all lawyers. Read evidence before making comments.

I didn't go to law school but would imagine that is somewhere in law 101
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Mental
Mental
Joined: Dec 10, 2018
  • Threads: 10
  • Posts: 970
October 17th, 2023 at 2:50:13 PM permalink
The Genting T&C are not visible to anyone unless they drill down on a particular web page. There is no business that can enforce T&C that their customers cannot be expected to ever see. Furthermore, the customer has to keep checking minute by minute because the casino reserves the right to change the T&C at any time. The T&C in this case wouldn't seem to have much legal standing. What if I went into a Burger King and they told me their T&C on their website has a $100 cover charge and I cannot leave until I pay it.

I have to acknowledge being given a copy of the T&C for every online casino and agree to abide by the T&C. I also have to acknowledge when the casino sends me a notice that the T&C have changed. When I get a promo from a B&M casino or an online casino, the T&C specific to that promotion are included in the offer. Any T&C that I have acknowledged or that is attached to my offer would seem to have better legal standing in case of a dispute.
This forum is more enjoyable after I learned how to use the 'Block this user' button.
rainman
rainman
Joined: Mar 28, 2012
  • Threads: 18
  • Posts: 1814
October 17th, 2023 at 4:26:44 PM permalink
So I can't sue if they back room me beat my ass and cause permanent damage to my person.
And if I do sue and win I get 100 bucks Malaysian. These Lawyers write some funny stuff.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
  • Threads: 290
  • Posts: 11100
October 17th, 2023 at 4:41:28 PM permalink
Quote: rainman

So I can't sue if they back room me beat my ass and cause permanent damage to my person.
And if I do sue and win I get 100 bucks Malaysian. These Lawyers write some funny stuff.
link to original post



Correct.

And to be clear I was also pointing out that what they wrote is illegal. But they wrote it nonetheless.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
odiousgambit
odiousgambit 
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
  • Threads: 326
  • Posts: 9399
October 18th, 2023 at 2:00:00 AM permalink
The law is an ass.

And the T&Cs I've come across prove it. Some say [in so many words] " we may decline to pay you for any reason we might dream up". In my view you should be able to say in any lawsuit you'd bring, the T&C here should be thrown out in it's entirety due to ridiculous clauses like that. But no, evidently that goes no where.

Disclaimers are something else that I can hardly believe. You might see a commercial with a disclaimer in tiny print that you'd need a microscope to read , and that would take at least a minute to read, and it is shown for about one second. So, in my opinion, you should be able to say the disclaimer shown was invalid. But .... apparently not.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: ďThanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!Ē   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
MDawg
MDawg
Joined: Sep 27, 2018
  • Threads: 36
  • Posts: 6661
October 18th, 2023 at 6:40:25 AM permalink
If you want to waste the time, look up any lawsuits that have been filed against RW NYC and I doubt you will find any where the LLC defendant tries to switch venue to Malaysia. This is a ridiculously misleading thread.

The explanation might be as simple as that some jerk off at Genting copy / pasted the same TOS all over the different casino websites worldwide. You have to use some common sense when looking at something like this.
Last edited by: MDawg on Oct 18, 2023
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
  • Threads: 290
  • Posts: 11100
Thanks for this post from:
odiousgambit
October 18th, 2023 at 8:19:28 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

If you want to waste the time, look up any lawsuits that have been filed against RW NYC and I doubt you will find any where the LLC defendant tries to switch venue to Malaysia. This is a ridiculously misleading thread.

The explanation might be as simple as that some jerk off at Genting copy / pasted the same TOS all over the different casino websites worldwide. You have to use some common sense when looking at something like this.
link to original post



You are totally missing the point. I don't understand why you are being so obtuse.

I myself sued Resorts World NYC in NYC.

The argument isn't that the venue will be changed by the casino to Malaysia.

The argument being made is that the agreement patrons make to abide by T&C AS WRITTEN is ridiculous. Because Terms and conditions AS WRITTEN are usually illegal or wrong.

I don't understand why you can't grasp that aspect of the Original Post.

You yourself have argued that casinos have rules that must be followed as written. Now you say it may be written but doesn't have to be followed. WHICH IS THE POINT!!
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 163
  • Posts: 22097
October 18th, 2023 at 11:44:29 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

If you want to waste the time, look up any lawsuits that have been filed against RW NYC and I doubt you will find any where the LLC defendant tries to switch venue to Malaysia. This is a ridiculously misleading thread.

The explanation might be as simple as that some jerk off at Genting copy / pasted the same TOS all over the different casino websites worldwide. You have to use some common sense when looking at something like this.
link to original post

How is this a ridiculously misleading thread?

Anyone who's an actual Advantage Player or someone who plays with an advantage regularly understands exactly what DarkOz is saying, And what the point of this thread is. Even people who
Are not APs get it.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 163
  • Posts: 22097
October 19th, 2023 at 12:07:53 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: MDawg

If you want to waste the time, look up any lawsuits that have been filed against RW NYC and I doubt you will find any where the LLC defendant tries to switch venue to Malaysia. This is a ridiculously misleading thread.

The explanation might be as simple as that some jerk off at Genting copy / pasted the same TOS all over the different casino websites worldwide. You have to use some common sense when looking at something like this.
link to original post



You are totally missing the point. I don't understand why you are being so obtuse.

I myself sued Resorts World NYC in NYC.

The argument isn't that the venue will be changed by the casino to Malaysia.

The argument being made is that the agreement patrons make to abide by T&C AS WRITTEN is ridiculous. Because Terms and conditions AS WRITTEN are usually illegal or wrong.

I don't understand why you can't grasp that aspect of the Original Post.

You yourself have argued that casinos have rules that must be followed as written. Now you say it may be written but doesn't have to be followed. WHICH IS THE POINT!!
link to original post

As far as B&M Casino go, I tend to ignore their terms and conditions that are unfavorable to me. Especially, if they are in contradiction to what I believe the gaming laws state.

When it comes to special promotions, I read and reread the rules/ terms ans conditions. When it comes to Special promotions things can get fuzzy. When there is an issue where gaming needs to get involved, there's always a chance gaming rules against you even though you're technically right.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
MDawg
MDawg
Joined: Sep 27, 2018
  • Threads: 36
  • Posts: 6661
October 19th, 2023 at 5:30:13 AM permalink
Well if you actually read this entire thread and understood it including understood what I said, why not state what these posts mean instead of four or five lines that signify nothing, because your follow up implies that you suddenly realized something. 😆
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/

  • Jump to: