Evenbob's Roulette Thread
November 21st, 2023 at 12:55:26 PM
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Quote: DRichQuote: EvenBob[
It does have an effect on the probability to win your bet if you're betting in a correct non-random manner.
If you want to increase the probability of having a winner, just bet red, black, and green and you will have a winner 100% of the time.
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You joke but that's a legitimate old comp hustle in Vegas. You bet $50 on red and your partner bets 50 dollars on black and the casino doesn't know you're together, if you do it for a couple hours you will have bet thousands of dollars and about broken even and you have greatly increased your comps. It probably still works.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
November 21st, 2023 at 1:27:08 PM
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Quote: EvenBobThese techniques can help you to increase your chances of winning, ]
That's the most interesting part of what Bard had to say about making non random bets in roulette. That it does help you increase your chances of winning. Imagine how greatly it can increase your chances if you come up with a method that is well thought out and logical. The sky is the limit.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
November 21st, 2023 at 3:33:58 PM
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Quote: EvenBobQuote: EvenBobThese techniques can help you to increase your chances of winning, ]
That's the most interesting part of what Bard had to say about making non random bets in roulette. That it does help you increase your chances of winning. Imagine how greatly it can increase your chances if you come up with a method that is well thought out and logical. The sky is the limit.
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AI especially Bard AI is not something that gives facts. It gives answers to questions.
A lawyer recently got eviscerated when he made the same mistake you are and asked AI for trial examples that supported his position and he listed these trials as precedent in his filings. Problem is those case precedents didn't exist.
AI made them up. The defense questioned why they could find no record of the cases so they could reply in brief and the truth (the attorney used AI for research and got back fantasy) came out.
You are using AI for fantasy. Fine but it doesn't convince anyone of the veracity of your claims.
If one billion people spout lies and fantasy they are still lies and fantasy.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
November 21st, 2023 at 3:41:18 PM
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Quote: darkoz
AI especially Bard AI is not something that gives facts. It gives answers to questions.
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Yet if AI gives an answer that completely agrees with what your stand, you would back it 100%. You would think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. I know how AI works, I know it didn't make this up, I know it's true because I do it everyday. And I used three different AI's for this and they all they gave basically the same answer. It's just that Bard was more detailed. So now you'll say its a conspiracy all the AI's are in on it together. Whatever..
And what's with the math that the Wizard presented in the house edge thread, how come nobody's discussing it. I try to ask some questions and get told well you can't post here. With a cursory examination it looks like that math bolsters my opinion of the house edge, if I'm wrong let me know. That's why nobody's discussing it.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
November 21st, 2023 at 4:04:44 PM
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The bigger question is why are you talking about roulette when you are not supposed to be? Why did you go back on your word?Quote: EvenBobQuote: darkoz
AI especially Bard AI is not something that gives facts. It gives answers to questions.
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Yet if AI gives an answer that completely agrees with what your stand, you would back it 100%. You would think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. I know how AI works, I know it didn't make this up, I know it's true because I do it everyday. And I used three different AI's for this and they all they gave basically the same answer. It's just that Bard was more detailed. So now you'll say its a conspiracy all the AI's are in on it together. Whatever..
And what's with the math that the Wizard presented in the house edge thread, how come nobody's discussing it. I try to ask some questions and get told well you can't post here. With a cursory examination it looks like that math bolsters my opinion of the house edge, if I'm wrong let me know. That's why nobody's discussing it.
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♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
November 21st, 2023 at 4:14:32 PM
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Quote: AxelWolfThe bigger question is why are you talking about roulette when you are not supposed to be? Why did you go back on your word?Quote: EvenBobQuote: darkoz
AI especially Bard AI is not something that gives facts. It gives answers to questions.
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Yet if AI gives an answer that completely agrees with what your stand, you would back it 100%. You would think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. I know how AI works, I know it didn't make this up, I know it's true because I do it everyday. And I used three different AI's for this and they all they gave basically the same answer. It's just that Bard was more detailed. So now you'll say its a conspiracy all the AI's are in on it together. Whatever..
And what's with the math that the Wizard presented in the house edge thread, how come nobody's discussing it. I try to ask some questions and get told well you can't post here. With a cursory examination it looks like that math bolsters my opinion of the house edge, if I'm wrong let me know. That's why nobody's discussing it.
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Read my post. Maybe in this thread. Maybe in one of the others he hijacked. He knows he has lost $$$ at roulette for decades now. He is just having fun posting inane posts, now in the tens of thousands, and getting rational people like you to respond. He started with a lie about ‘a friend’ gambling. What would you call his statements ‘80% hit rate’. 56% advantage. Never lost a session.
A. Statements of fact?
Or B. Delusional rants?
Or C. Carefully crafted abject stupidity so imbecilic that its only goal is to get members to ‘cross the line’ in their rebuttals?
It ain’t A. I believe it’s C.
So asking him why he would go back on his word is a waste of time….. kind of like all (mine included) responses to EB.
November 21st, 2023 at 5:06:26 PM
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I would answer the last two posts above from the ardent members of my fan club if they weren't just the same blah blah blah that they always post. Come up with something original for crying out loud, just repeating the same crap over and over is older than my high school letter jacket, that's really old.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
November 21st, 2023 at 6:01:21 PM
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Quote: EvenBob{snipped for clarity}
I know how AI works, I know it didn't make this up,
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The fact that ChatGPT made up case citations blows up your second statement, proving your first statement is false as well.
Quote: EvenBob
[...]
I used three different AI's for this and they all they gave basically the same answer. It's just that Bard was more detailed. So now you'll say its a conspiracy all the AI's are in on it together.
There is an amazing acronym you should learn and live by: GIGO--Garbage In, Garbage Out. AIs have no inherent knowledge in and of themselves. They are learning programs that generate emergent properties that seem like wisdom, but are regurgitations of the data they were trained on. Since the companies that 'feed' AI data are cash-strapped, they use public information (scraped off the internet) to train their programs.
Given the fact that every single statement that you reproduced from Bard AI employs the Gambler's Fallacy and/or presumes that individual spins of the wheel are not independent events, one can conclude that the AIs were fed absolute garbage during their initial learning phase. I would presume the ratio of Wizard types to Innumerate bloggers is vanishingly small, then AIs will continue to spew falsehoods about gambling for the foreseeable future.
One hundred AIs spewing mathematical falsehoods does not change reality.
November 21st, 2023 at 6:07:06 PM
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You have yet to answer why you went back on your word. You got what you wanted/ bargained for. A thread was shut down based on your own terms, you got an answer based on your own poll, and in return you were supposed to stop talking about roulette if that' how we voted. This wasn't forced on you , it was all of your idea. And now, you have went back on your word. Again, you haven't given a legitimate reason why.Quote: EvenBobI would answer the last two posts above from the ardent members of my fan club if they weren't just the same blah blah blah that they always post. Come up with something original for crying out loud, just repeating the same crap over and over is older than my high school letter jacket, that's really old.
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Not only that you offered up a challenge and then revoked it.
You attempted to show Mike you could beat roulette and abandoned that.
You were going show us some proof you could beat roulette and only showed proof you played micro stakes.
Talk about patters
I'm seeing a pattern here.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
November 21st, 2023 at 6:16:06 PM
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Quote: BillHasRetired
One hundred AIs spewing mathematical falsehoods does not change reality.
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I run into this all the time in different places. When AI produces a result that agrees with somebody's position, it's next to God. When it disagrees with their position it's a worthless piece of garbage. LOL. Because it agrees with everything I do why would I dismiss it because somebody has a different opinion about it than I do. You can't prove what it said isn't true, I know this because I do it everyday so I know it is true.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
November 21st, 2023 at 6:16:23 PM
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Quote: EvenBobQuote: darkoz
AI especially Bard AI is not something that gives facts. It gives answers to questions.
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Yet if AI gives an answer that completely agrees with what your stand, you would back it 100%. You would think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. I know how AI works, I know it didn't make this up, I know it's true because I do it everyday. And I used three different AI's for this and they all they gave basically the same answer. It's just that Bard was more detailed. So now you'll say its a conspiracy all the AI's are in on it together. Whatever..
And what's with the math that the Wizard presented in the house edge thread, how come nobody's discussing it. I try to ask some questions and get told well you can't post here. With a cursory examination it looks like that math bolsters my opinion of the house edge, if I'm wrong let me know. That's why nobody's discussing it.
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AI are not distinct personalities. If you word the request wrong you will get substantially similar results. Again using AI for research, lol using three AI's for research doesn't change the fact AI is not beholden to the truth.
As for the wizarss math it is discussed and you ignore any posts about it. I won't even link to the posts because I am certain you saw them and purposely ignore them
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
November 21st, 2023 at 6:41:17 PM
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Quote: AxelWolfYou have yet to answer why you went back on your word. You got what you wanted/ bargained for. A thread was shut down based on your own terms, you got an answer based on your own poll, and in return you were supposed to stop talking about roulette if that' how we voted. This wasn't forced on you , it was all of your idea. And now, you have went back on your word. Again, you haven't given a legitimate reason why.Quote: EvenBobI would answer the last two posts above from the ardent members of my fan club if they weren't just the same blah blah blah that they always post. Come up with something original for crying out loud, just repeating the same crap over and over is older than my high school letter jacket, that's really old.
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Not only that you offered up a challenge and then revoked it.
You attempted to show Mike you could beat roulette and abandoned that.
You were going show us some proof you could beat roulette and only showed proof you played micro stakes.
Talk about patters
I'm seeing a pattern here.
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"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
November 21st, 2023 at 6:50:51 PM
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Quote: darkozAgain using AI for research, lol using three AI's for research doesn't change the fact AI is not beholden to the truth.
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Yes yes yes, I hear this every single day, five people will say AI is the future, AI will run everything, AI will take your job, blah blah blah. Then I hear five other people say everything that AI says is a lie, you can't trust anything, it makes everything up, whatever. I look at it just like I do Wikipedia, if it makes sense and I get corroborating evidence, good enough for me. The corroborating evidence for what AI told me in this case I have myself on a daily basis. Like it or not, I'm the expert here, I just got done playing my last session of the day and guess what. Guess how I did. Just like AI said I should do.
As far as the house edge thread is concerned I just read every post in it again and I don't see any discussion of the math that Mike posted. I see discussions of different procedures for the math but I don't see a breakdown of that chart that he posted and what all of it means. For instance, if 100 spins is 66% behind and 33% is ahead or even, what is it at 1,000 spins.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
November 21st, 2023 at 8:09:37 PM
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Quote: EvenBobQuote: BillHasRetired
One hundred AIs spewing mathematical falsehoods does not change reality.
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I run into this all the time in different places. When AI produces a result that agrees with somebody's position, it's next to God. When it disagrees with their position it's a worthless piece of garbage. LOL. Because it agrees with everything I do why would I dismiss it because somebody has a different opinion about it than I do. You can't prove what it said isn't true, I know this because I do it everyday so I know it is true.
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I universally discount ChatGPT and all other 'research' AIs regardless of whether they agree with me or not. Why? Because the people training them do not invest in peer-reviewed data. They scrape the Internet and pump it in. The results, at my most generous, would serve merely as a starting point for further research and verification. When an AI says things that are flat-out wrong (future spins of roulette depend on the previous spin results, for example), then I throw out the whole thing. A single bare, unverified assertion to the contrary does not automatically make the AI 'right'.
You might have missed out on the childhood lesson "two wrongs don't make a right." In this case, three wrongs don't even come close. Citing your 'results', unwitnessed, unexplained, unverified, and unreplicatable by a dispassionate researcher, are less than credible. You are the Uri Gellar of roulette, surrounded by many Amazing Randis. Your constant assertions of 'but I can bend spoons' are looking more and more pathetic all the time.
November 21st, 2023 at 8:13:01 PM
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Quote: EvenBobQuote: AxelWolfYou have yet to answer why you went back on your word. You got what you wanted/ bargained for. A thread was shut down based on your own terms, you got an answer based on your own poll, and in return you were supposed to stop talking about roulette if that' how we voted. This wasn't forced on you , it was all of your idea. And now, you have went back on your word. Again, you haven't given a legitimate reason why.Quote: EvenBobI would answer the last two posts above from the ardent members of my fan club if they weren't just the same blah blah blah that they always post. Come up with something original for crying out loud, just repeating the same crap over and over is older than my high school letter jacket, that's really old.
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Not only that you offered up a challenge and then revoked it.
You attempted to show Mike you could beat roulette and abandoned that.
You were going show us some proof you could beat roulette and only showed proof you played micro stakes.
Talk about patters
I'm seeing a pattern here.
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See, this is the kind of bad-faith BS that is a tell. Refusing to engage with clear, unambiguous points is exactly the same as tipping over your chess king. You have vacated the field and yielded the point(s) to your opponent.
November 21st, 2023 at 8:25:37 PM
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Quote: BillHasRetired
See, this is the kind of bad-faith BS that is a tell. Refusing to engage with clear, unambiguous points
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LOL! You are obviously new to this discussion, it's been a long long time since I've seen any clear unambiguous points from Axel. He just repeats the same things over and over and over trying to wear you down with it acting like he's never asked it before. I've answered the same questions from him so many times that I've lost count, now I just pretty much ignore him.
Where are these items you wanted to discuss from the other thread, post them here if you want a discussion. If you don't it's all the same to me.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
November 21st, 2023 at 8:29:56 PM
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Quote: BillHasRetired
I universally discount ChatGPT and all other 'research' AIs regardless of whether they agree with me or not.
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I'm not doubting you, but never once have I seen that in actual real life. I have yet to see one single person say that AI agrees with them 100% on something but they discounted it as a lie. Never once. What I see again and again is AI takes a position they don't like, and then it's nothing but lies. In this case I agree with it because I prove it everyday when I play and get paid. When it reaffirms something I already know is true, why would I throw it out. It's just verifying what I already know to be true.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
November 21st, 2023 at 8:40:29 PM
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I hate and admire your intelligence.Quote: BillHasRetiredQuote: EvenBobQuote: AxelWolfYou have yet to answer why you went back on your word. You got what you wanted/ bargained for. A thread was shut down based on your own terms, you got an answer based on your own poll, and in return you were supposed to stop talking about roulette if that' how we voted. This wasn't forced on you , it was all of your idea. And now, you have went back on your word. Again, you haven't given a legitimate reason why.Quote: EvenBobI would answer the last two posts above from the ardent members of my fan club if they weren't just the same blah blah blah that they always post. Come up with something original for crying out loud, just repeating the same crap over and over is older than my high school letter jacket, that's really old.
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Not only that you offered up a challenge and then revoked it.
You attempted to show Mike you could beat roulette and abandoned that.
You were going show us some proof you could beat roulette and only showed proof you played micro stakes.
Talk about patters
I'm seeing a pattern here.
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See, this is the kind of bad-faith BS that is a tell. Refusing to engage with clear, unambiguous points is exactly the same as tipping over your chess king. You have vacated the field and yielded the point(s) to your opponent.
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Let me see if I can break down what you are saying in layman's terms. Chess match with no clock. ME: CHECK-MATE IN 2. Suddenly Bob leaves game and doesn't make a move or return to the game. He knows he last, but refuses to make a move.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
November 21st, 2023 at 9:21:50 PM
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Quote: EvenBobQuote: BillHasRetired
I universally discount ChatGPT and all other 'research' AIs regardless of whether they agree with me or not.
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I'm not doubting you, but never once have I seen that in actual real life. I have yet to see one single person say that AI agrees with them 100% on something but they discounted it as a lie. Never once. What I see again and again is AI takes a position they don't like, and then it's nothing but lies. In this case I agree with it because I prove it everyday when I play and get paid. When it reaffirms something I already know is true, why would I throw it out. It's just verifying what I already know to be true.
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This is because you deliberately misconstrue my argument.
"I universally discount" means exactly that: whatever they come up with means very little to me. Agree with my position or not, I do not care what AIs come up with, primarily because I do not trust the input they've been trained on. They mean zero to me.
That is completely different than calling AI output "lies". AI output may indeed be contra-factual and unmoored from reality (as they appear to be in your case), but to lie implies a deliberate attempt to deceive. You may have such an intent, but an AI is a computer program. Generating falsehood deliberately might be an emergent property from their programming structure, the result of GIGO, or misreporting by bad actors from output to reader, but as far as I know, there's no sentience in an AI that would warrant the use of the word "lies".
You're going to have to do better than that. And stop misconstruing my arguments. It doesn't encourage discussion.
November 21st, 2023 at 9:29:20 PM
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Quote: AxelWolf
Let me see if I can break down what you are saying in layman's terms.
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In layman's terms it's that you bore the crap out of me because you ask the same questions over and over you don't even seem to realize it. It goes on for weeks and even months and I get tired of answering them so I quit. Enough already..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
November 21st, 2023 at 9:37:50 PM
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Quote: EvenBobQuote: BillHasRetired
See, this is the kind of bad-faith BS that is a tell. Refusing to engage with clear, unambiguous points
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LOL! You are obviously new to this discussion, {snip}
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False.
I've been around for about eighteen months. No, I don't expect you to know this, but a brief look at my ID in the upper left would have told you this. You know, you don't appear to consider your posts very much before you hit Post. I also know that you don't care about anything or anybody. Including such things as internal consistency, civil discussion norms, and good faith. In all the posts I've ever seen from you since your return, I cannot recall you acknowledging being wrong about anything.
I am reminded of concrete: all mixed up and permanently set. More: cannot be relied on unless under compression. The slightest hint of tension results in complete failure.
Quote: EvenBob
Where are these items you wanted to discuss from the other thread, post them here if you want a discussion. If you don't it's all the same to me.
Just reinforces my point above. I've read enough of your work over the past year and a half to know this is wasted effort. But I have taken away three of your arguments:
1. Nobody ever gave you details about how House Edge works
2. "The House Edge never manifests itself in the short term." Proven false
3. "[The House Edge] still did not take those winnings in little 5% chunks." Also proven false.
You can never use these again. You've not refuted them (nor can you).
My work here is done. Good night.
November 21st, 2023 at 9:47:32 PM
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Quote: BillHasRetired
2. "The House Edge never manifests itself in the short term." Proven false
3. "[The House Edge] still did not take those winnings in little 5% chunks." Also proven false.
You can never use these again. You've not refuted them (nor can you).
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Proven false where, what are you talking about. Why would I refute them when you haven't presented them to me.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
November 21st, 2023 at 9:52:22 PM
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Quote: BillHasRetired
"I universally discount" means exactly that: whatever they come up with means very little to me. Agree with my position or not, I do not care what AIs come up with, primarily because I do not trust the input they've been trained on. They mean zero to me.
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They mean something to me if I can verify it. If it verifies a position that I already know to be true then I accept it. When it said you can gain an advantage by using non-random bets in roulette I accept that because I know that to be absolutely true. Why would I reject it, that would be ridiculous. It's like I know the sun comes up every morning and AI tells me the sun comes up every morning, why would I reject that.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
November 21st, 2023 at 10:24:49 PM
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Quote: EvenBob
They mean something to me if I can verify it.
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Here's what I did when I first started using AI a few months ago. I came up with 15 test questions things like what did Neil Armstrong say when he set foot on the Moon. How many feet are in a mile. How did China get rid of opium in 1949. When did the Vietnam War end. 15 questions that I knew the absolute right answer to and AI got every single one of them right. In spades, with details. So when people tell me that all AI does is lie and you can't trust anything it says, I tend not to trust anything they say. Of course AI gets some things wrong, but to say it gets most things wrong or everything wrong is ridiculous. Just test it, and you'll see.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
November 21st, 2023 at 10:32:55 PM
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Nope, I asked questions you can't answer with anything legitimate based on math or logic, therfore you come up with this BS..Quote: EvenBobQuote: AxelWolf
Let me see if I can break down what you are saying in layman's terms.
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In layman's terms it's that you bore the crap out of me because you ask the same questions over and over you don't even seem to realize it. It goes on for weeks and even months and I get tired of answering them so I quit. Enough already..
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How about being a man of your word? That isn't nonsense or mathematical, it can't be in dispute.
It's in black and white based on your words and posts.
Answer that simple question.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
November 22nd, 2023 at 4:13:18 AM
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Quote: AxelWolfNope, I asked questions you can't answer with anything legitimate based on math or logic, therfore you come up with this BS..Quote: EvenBobQuote: AxelWolf
Let me see if I can break down what you are saying in layman's terms.
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In layman's terms it's that you bore the crap out of me because you ask the same questions over and over you don't even seem to realize it. It goes on for weeks and even months and I get tired of answering them so I quit. Enough already..
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How about being a man of your word? That isn't nonsense or mathematical, it can't be in dispute.
It's in black and white based on your words and posts.
Answer that simple question.
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Axel…. Please link to a SPECIFIC post where EB promised he wouldn’t post about roulette. Not ‘look at his thread’. Or…. Find it in his thread…. You keep mentioning that he is not being truthful. Please link to EXACTLY what he said.
November 22nd, 2023 at 4:35:43 AM
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I didn't say he wasn't being truthful in this instance. I said he wasn't honoring his word. I don't even think he has disputed that.Quote: SOOPOOQuote: AxelWolfNope, I asked questions you can't answer with anything legitimate based on math or logic, therfore you come up with this BS..Quote: EvenBobQuote: AxelWolf
Let me see if I can break down what you are saying in layman's terms.
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In layman's terms it's that you bore the crap out of me because you ask the same questions over and over you don't even seem to realize it. It goes on for weeks and even months and I get tired of answering them so I quit. Enough already..
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How about being a man of your word? That isn't nonsense or mathematical, it can't be in dispute.
It's in black and white based on your words and posts.
Answer that simple question.
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Axel…. Please link to a SPECIFIC post where EB promised he wouldn’t post about roulette. Not ‘look at his thread’. Or…. Find it in his thread…. You keep mentioning that he is not being truthful. Please link to EXACTLY what he said.
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I don't know where the posts are and I don't feel like going and looking them up right now. It's not easy looking everything up when the mods keep shutting all those threads down for him.
Why don't you ask him straight up and see if he'll answer honestly, he himself knows he's not supposed to be posting about roulette anymore.
Last edited by: AxelWolf on Nov 22, 2023
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
November 22nd, 2023 at 6:47:12 AM
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Quote: SOOPOOQuote: AxelWolfNope, I asked questions you can't answer with anything legitimate based on math or logic, therfore you come up with this BS..Quote: EvenBobQuote: AxelWolf
Let me see if I can break down what you are saying in layman's terms.
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In layman's terms it's that you bore the crap out of me because you ask the same questions over and over you don't even seem to realize it. It goes on for weeks and even months and I get tired of answering them so I quit. Enough already..
link to original post
How about being a man of your word? That isn't nonsense or mathematical, it can't be in dispute.
It's in black and white based on your words and posts.
Answer that simple question.
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Axel…. Please link to a SPECIFIC post where EB promised he wouldn’t post about roulette. Not ‘look at his thread’. Or…. Find it in his thread…. You keep mentioning that he is not being truthful. Please link to EXACTLY what he said.
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Soopoo Axel is in red so here is just one post. Note his specific words aren't that he won't post any longer about roulette but that he is done "here". EB is someone who carefully twists words but whe ln someone says shut down their thread about roulette discussion to the mods and they are finished not to return that the intent isn't "I'm finished in the dedicated roulette thread (or Baccarat) that I started but I really mean i am continuing elsewhere.
Anyway EB has now been relegated to discussion in just that one thread reopened for him to do so. First time I remember that happening at WOV.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
November 22nd, 2023 at 8:23:46 AM
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Quote: EvenBobQuote: rawtuff
You still don't seem to be able to realize that choosing how to bet has 0 (zero), nada, zilch effect on the HE and on your probability to win your bet.
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It does have an effect on the probability to win your bet if you're betting in a correct non-random manner.
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No, it doesn't. And there is no 'correct' manner of betting, being it 'non-random' manner or otherwise.
Also, please post the full answers by Bard or any other AI and not snippets from it as well as your question/prompt that generated said answer in full and verbatim for future reference.
Because I can trick any AI to answer whatever I want by carefully crafted prompts and omit the parts of the answer that don't suit my goal.
Here are couple of Bard's answer to a genuine question about 'non-random betting advantage'
Question: Are there any methods of betting on roulette that have an effect on the probability to win your bet if you're betting in a non-random manner?
Bard's answer:
While there are various methods and strategies for betting on roulette, it is important to note that roulette is a game of chance, and the outcome of each spin is independent of the previous spins. This means that no betting method can guarantee a win or significantly alter the odds in your favor.
However, some non-random betting methods may help you manage your bankroll more effectively and potentially increase your chances of winning in the short term. These methods often involve adjusting your bet size based on the outcomes of previous spins.
Here are a few examples of non-random betting methods in roulette:
Martingale System: This method involves doubling your bet after each loss until you win. The idea is that eventually, you will win and recoup all your previous losses plus a profit. However, this method can be risky, especially if you have a limited bankroll, as a long losing streak can quickly deplete your funds.
Reverse Martingale: This method is the opposite of the Martingale system. Instead of doubling your bet after a loss, you double your bet after a win. This method is less risky than the Martingale, but it also has a lower potential payout.
D'Alembert System: This method involves increasing or decreasing your bet by one unit after each spin, depending on the outcome. If you win, you decrease your bet. If you lose, you increase your bet. This method is more conservative than the Martingale or Reverse Martingale, but it also has a lower potential payout.
Fibonacci System: This method involves increasing your bet size according to the Fibonacci sequence (1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, etc.) after each loss. If you win, you move back two numbers in the sequence. This method is similar to the Martingale, but it is slightly less risky as the bet size increases more slowly.
Paroli System: This method is the opposite of the Fibonacci system. Instead of increasing your bet size after a loss, you increase your bet size after a win. If you lose, you move back two numbers in the sequence. This method is more aggressive than the Fibonacci system, but it also has a higher potential payout.
It is important to remember that these betting methods are not guaranteed to make you money. In fact, they can all lead to significant losses if you are not careful. It is always a good idea to gamble responsibly and set limits for yourself.
Question: is it possible to gain an advantage over the game of roulette by any means of non-random betting?
Bard's answer:
No, it is not possible to gain a long-term advantage over the game of roulette by any means of non-random betting. This is because roulette is a game of chance, and the outcome of each spin is independent of the previous spins. This means that no betting method can guarantee a win or significantly alter the odds in your favor.
The casino has a built-in advantage in roulette, which is known as the house edge. The house edge is the percentage of each bet that the casino expects to keep over time. This edge is what makes roulette profitable for the casino.
The house edge varies depending on the type of roulette you are playing. In American roulette, the house edge is 5.26%. In European roulette, the house edge is 2.70%.
No matter which type of roulette you are playing, the house edge is always working against you. This means that the more you play, the more likely you are to lose money.
There are a number of reasons why it is not possible to gain a long-term advantage over roulette. First, the roulette wheel is designed to be random. The ball is spun in a way that makes it impossible to predict where it will land.
Second, the casino employs a number of measures to ensure that the game is fair. These measures include using a random number generator to determine the outcome of each spin and having the roulette wheel inspected by independent gaming regulators.
Finally, even if you were able to find a way to predict the outcome of roulette spins, the casino would quickly catch on and ban you from playing.
The best way to approach roulette is to treat it as a form of entertainment. If you are lucky, you may win some money. However, it is important to remember that the odds are always in the casino's favor.
Here are some tips for gambling responsibly:
Set a budget and stick to it.
Don't chase your losses.
Take breaks from gambling.
Seek help if you have a gambling problem.
Gambling can be fun and exciting, but it is important to gamble responsibly. By following these tips, you can help to ensure that you enjoy gambling without putting yourself at risk.
Don't beat yourself up over past mistakes, you are going to f*** up again in the future, quite possibly in the most spectacular fashion, why worry about yesterday's f*** up's when you have tomorrow's f*** up's to look forward to?
You are a f*** up, and f***** up is part of your growth process, embrace the process.
November 24th, 2023 at 10:12:56 AM
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Quote: rawtuff
No, it doesn't. And there is no 'correct' manner of betting, being it 'non-random' manner or otherwise.
It's an absolute fact that betting non randomly against random outcomes can create a different result then betting randomly. I really not going to go through this subject again, I've already discussed it ad nauseam. As far as quoting AI, I'm never going to use a full quote because 80% of it is usually useless drivel. AI loves to blubber on and on endlessly just like that robot in Star Wars, C3PO. You have to separate the wheat from the chaff with AI. It's not copyrighted I can do anything I want with it.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
November 24th, 2023 at 10:39:47 AM
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Quote: EvenBobQuote: rawtuff
No, it doesn't. And there is no 'correct' manner of betting, being it 'non-random' manner or otherwise.
It's an absolute fact that betting non randomly against random outcomes can create a different result then betting randomly. I really not going to go through this subject again, I've already discussed it ad nauseam. As far as quoting AI, I'm never going to use a full quote because 80% of it is usually useless drivel. AI loves to blubber on and on endlessly just like that robot in Star Wars, C3PO. You have to separate the wheat from the chaff with AI. It's not copyrighted I can do anything I want with it.
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So, if you track and spot a pattern in the outcomes of a roulette results, the even odds outcomes for example.
What is that makes you think and how exactly do you know for "an absolute fact " that the probability of any one number/slot or a randomly dispersed group of numbers/slots on the roulette wheel has a different probability of hitting than 1/38 or 18/38 (American roulette wheel) for the next spin based on that previous pattern of outcomes, so that your "non-random" bet has a different probability of winning than the inherent probability of the physical device of the spinning wheel divided in 38 slots and a running ball that enters the wheel at random place, velocity and angle, bounces around the dividers and ends somewhere on that wheel in one of the 38 slots?
Give the physics logic behind it.
And cherry picking parts of an answer isn't really honest presentation of the logical flow in the entire text, won't you agree?
Also the particular prompt/question used is important as well and must be presented to the audience as well.
Last edited by: rawtuff on Nov 24, 2023
Don't beat yourself up over past mistakes, you are going to f*** up again in the future, quite possibly in the most spectacular fashion, why worry about yesterday's f*** up's when you have tomorrow's f*** up's to look forward to?
You are a f*** up, and f***** up is part of your growth process, embrace the process.
November 24th, 2023 at 11:09:40 AM
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Quote: rawtuffQuestion: is it possible to gain an advantage over the game of roulette by any means of non-random betting?
Bard's answer:
There are a number of reasons why it is not possible to gain a long-term advantage over roulette. First, the roulette wheel is designed to be random. The ball is spun in a way that makes it impossible to predict where it will land.
Second, the casino employs a number of measures to ensure that the game is fair. These measures include using a random number generator to determine the outcome of each spin and having the roulette wheel inspected by independent gaming regulators.
Huh?
The casino uses a random number generator in a non-online roulette game, i.e. a game with a real wheel, layout, dealer etc.?
Methinks AI got its wires crossed.
"What, me worry?"
November 24th, 2023 at 11:28:46 AM
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Quote: MrVQuote: rawtuffQuestion: is it possible to gain an advantage over the game of roulette by any means of non-random betting?
Bard's answer:
There are a number of reasons why it is not possible to gain a long-term advantage over roulette. First, the roulette wheel is designed to be random. The ball is spun in a way that makes it impossible to predict where it will land.
Second, the casino employs a number of measures to ensure that the game is fair. These measures include using a random number generator to determine the outcome of each spin and having the roulette wheel inspected by independent gaming regulators.
Huh?
The casino uses a random number generator in a non-online roulette game, i.e. a game with a real wheel, layout, dealer etc.?
Methinks AI got its wires crossed.
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Yup. On many occasions AI's answer utter bull or close to it and sometimes they give a genuine and, quite more rarely, genius answer. That's why it's important not to cherry pick segments of a given answer and honestly present the output in its entirety and the prompt used as well.
AI's are pretty young. Give them some years though, they'll become refined, brilliant in every interaction and unstoppable. Or so they say.
Don't beat yourself up over past mistakes, you are going to f*** up again in the future, quite possibly in the most spectacular fashion, why worry about yesterday's f*** up's when you have tomorrow's f*** up's to look forward to?
You are a f*** up, and f***** up is part of your growth process, embrace the process.
November 24th, 2023 at 12:45:46 PM
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Quote: rawtuff
What is that makes you think and how exactly do you know for "an absolute fact " that the probability
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What I do has absolutely nothing to do with probability. The probability is the same on every bet, you can't change it. What I do is based on observation. For instance, and this is NOT what I do, this is just an example. Let's say you had 23 Reds in a row. This is unusual, you very very seldom see that many even chance outcomes in a row. The probability of it being red again it's exactly the same is it always is. But the logic in the observation of it being red is not the same. There's a very very good chance that black is coming up very soon so this would be a very good time to start betting black with a progression. Once again I do NOT NOT NOT use progressions this is simply an example to make my point. This bet is all about experience and observation. Now somebody will come along I guarantee it and scream oh my God, Bob uses a progression! I knew it! You just wait.
As far as cherry picking AI, I left the parts in that were pertinent to what I said. The blah blah blah parts I didn't include did not disagree with me they were just unnecessary as is 3/4 of what blabbermouth AI writes. It always has to include that you can't beat a casino game, and that gambling can be dangerous if you're not careful, and it's a nice day outside but take an umbrella anyway. I don't care about any of that.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
November 24th, 2023 at 12:49:57 PM
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Quote: rawtuffThat's why it's important not to cherry pick segments of a given answer
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No, that's why it is important TO cherry pick from the answer it gives so you can separate the wheat from the chaff. So you can separate what it got right from the rest of the blah blah blah. You should never use AI to try and learn something new, that's a big mistake. You should only use AI for things you already know about and that you want confirmation on.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
November 24th, 2023 at 1:21:28 PM
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Quote: EvenBobQuote: rawtuff
What is that makes you think and how exactly do you know for "an absolute fact " that the probability
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What I do has absolutely nothing to do with probability. The probability is the same on every bet, you can't change it. What I do is based on observation. For instance, and this is NOT what I do, this is just an example. Let's say you had 23 Reds in a row. This is unusual, you very very seldom see that many even chance outcomes in a row. The probability of it being red again it's exactly the same is it always is. But the logic in the observation of it being red is not the same. There's a very very good chance that black is coming up very soon so this would be a very good time to start betting black with a progression. Once again I do NOT NOT NOT use progressions this is simply an example to make my point. This bet is all about experience and observation.
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Okay, but the probability is all you have before making a wager, like it or not, admitting to it or not. Observation, in your (and many many many others) cases, is only a "tool" to make one believe that their wager is more likely to win than usual.
"The logic in observation" of it being red/black/odd/even/low/high/whatever not being "the same" is coming from where exactly?
Where is the support for this intuitive claim? How come the wheel spinning and the ball spinning in the opposite direction anticipating its collide with the diamond randomizers and the frets of the number slots is somehow different or determined to some extent to produce a desired outcome?
There is no such thing in the physical reality we live in.
Explain it to us all.
Don't beat yourself up over past mistakes, you are going to f*** up again in the future, quite possibly in the most spectacular fashion, why worry about yesterday's f*** up's when you have tomorrow's f*** up's to look forward to?
You are a f*** up, and f***** up is part of your growth process, embrace the process.
November 24th, 2023 at 2:21:22 PM
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Quote: rawtuffQuote: EvenBobQuote: rawtuff
What is that makes you think and how exactly do you know for "an absolute fact " that the probability
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What I do has absolutely nothing to do with probability. The probability is the same on every bet, you can't change it. What I do is based on observation. For instance, and this is NOT what I do, this is just an example. Let's say you had 23 Reds in a row. This is unusual, you very very seldom see that many even chance outcomes in a row. The probability of it being red again it's exactly the same is it always is. But the logic in the observation of it being red is not the same. There's a very very good chance that black is coming up very soon so this would be a very good time to start betting black with a progression. Once again I do NOT NOT NOT use progressions this is simply an example to make my point. This bet is all about experience and observation.
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Okay, but the probability is all you have before making a wager, like it or not, admitting to it or not. Observation, in your (and many many many others) cases, is only a "tool" to make one believe that their wager is more likely to win than usual.
"The logic in observation" of it being red/black/odd/even/low/high/whatever not being "the same" is coming from where exactly?
Where is the support for this intuitive claim? How come the wheel spinning and the ball spinning in the opposite direction anticipating its collide with the diamond randomizers and the frets of the number slots is somehow different or determined to some extent to produce a desired outcome?
There is no such thing in the physical reality we live in.
Explain it to us all.
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Rawtuff
EB has already stated the advantage is only in his mind.
Paraphrasing it was something like "the advantage in past outcomes doesn't exist, it's only in the mind but sometimes one can learn to use what's in the mind to make it real" or some such nonsense.
One imagines Norman Bates feeling the same wholeheartedly about his mother.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
November 24th, 2023 at 2:37:31 PM
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Quote: rawtuff"The logic in observation" of it being red/black/odd/even/low/high/whatever not being "the same" is coming from where exactly?
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It comes from experience, study, and observation of the outcomes over a long period of time. We aren't dealing with a lot of numbers here, 37 or 38 pockets. There's only so many things that it's going to do, it's not going to go hog wild crazy like it would if you were dealing with 100 pockets. If you observe it long enough you will see that it does the same things over and over again, it repeats itself constantly because it doesn't have a choice, we're dealing with limited number of outcomes. So you see something happening that you've seen many times and you make an educated guess that it's going to keep doing that for at least one more spin. It quite often keeps going longer than one more spin but I don't care about that. That's a big trap and it's a trap everybody falls into. I cannot count the number of times where I made my bet and won and then played virtually and I would have won the next 10 in a row. You can't feel badly about that because that's greed. Because it worked that time doesn't mean it's going to work next time so I'm just happy getting one unit. I used to keep going with it just to see how much I could make but in the end it's not worth it. You'll bet 14 times and end up making four or five units. It's much safer to bet more money to make just one unit.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
November 24th, 2023 at 2:39:58 PM
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Quote: darkoz
EB has already stated the advantage is only in his mind.
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What I said is the patterns are not real, our mind thinks it's seeing a pattern but it's really not. Humans are all about pattern recognition whether the patterns actually there or it isn't. But that doesn't mean they can't be exploited. Random outcomes do not create patterns they create pseudo patterns, and a pseudo pattern can be exploited for very short periods of time. And that's all I care about.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
November 24th, 2023 at 3:10:28 PM
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Quote: EvenBobQuote: darkoz
EB has already stated the advantage is only in his mind.
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What I said is the patterns are not real, our mind thinks it's seeing a pattern but it's really not. Humans are all about pattern recognition whether the patterns actually there or it isn't. But that doesn't mean they can't be exploited. Random outcomes do not create patterns they create pseudo patterns, and a pseudo pattern can be exploited for very short periods of time. And that's all I care about.
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So it's in your mind.
You see patterns. The patterns are only in your mind. And you exploit them.
Norman Bates mom was in his mind. He saw things his mother saw. And he exploited them.
Then he wound up in the loony bin.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
November 24th, 2023 at 3:20:41 PM
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Quote: darkoz
So it's in your mind.
You see patterns. The patterns are only in your mind.
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If you saw three Reds three blacks three Reds three blacks that pattern would be in your mind too. Even though the random outcomes are not producing a pattern, that doesn't mean that the pseudo pattern is going to end on the next spin. Especially when you're seeing it in conjunction with other things that are going on at the same time. Don't make fun of something you don't understand, it's not a good look on your report card..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
November 24th, 2023 at 4:40:17 PM
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Quote: MrVQuote: rawtuffQuestion: is it possible to gain an advantage over the game of roulette by any means of non-random betting?
Bard's answer:
There are a number of reasons why it is not possible to gain a long-term advantage over roulette. First, the roulette wheel is designed to be random. The ball is spun in a way that makes it impossible to predict where it will land.
Second, the casino employs a number of measures to ensure that the game is fair. These measures include using a random number generator to determine the outcome of each spin and having the roulette wheel inspected by independent gaming regulators.
Huh?
The casino uses a random number generator in a non-online roulette game, i.e. a game with a real wheel, layout, dealer etc.?
Methinks AI got its wires crossed.
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Can you explain to me how a fair roulette wheel is not a physical random number generator?
May the cards fall in your favor.
November 24th, 2023 at 4:53:00 PM
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Quote: DieterCan you explain to me how a fair roulette wheel is not a physical random number generator?
Sure can.
It's a matter of terminology; to my mind, a "random number generator" is an electronic device, not a roulette table or a pair of dice.
But yes, a roulette table should offer random, not non-random outcomes.
"What, me worry?"
November 24th, 2023 at 4:59:12 PM
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The syntax of the numbers spun is predictable if you know the code. It's like an ouija board and the spirits of the numbers are coming to claim your soul, so it's easy to know what number comes next.
November 24th, 2023 at 5:00:25 PM
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Quote: EvenBobQuote: darkoz
So it's in your mind.
You see patterns. The patterns are only in your mind.
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If you saw three Reds three blacks three Reds three blacks that pattern would be in your mind too. Even though the random outcomes are not producing a pattern, that doesn't mean that the pseudo pattern is going to end on the next spin. Especially when you're seeing it in conjunction with other things that are going on at the same time. Don't make fun of something you don't understand, it's not a good look on your report card..
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Unlike you I don't get report cards anymore. I graduated a long time ago.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
November 24th, 2023 at 5:43:18 PM
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Quote: Dieter
Can you explain to me how a fair roulette wheel is not a physical random number generator?
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A roulette wheel is a random generator, just like flipping a coin in the air generates random outcomes. Random number generator, or RNG, typically refers to a computer algorithm that generates pseudo random results. Fake random, but good enough for the casinos uses. I cannot play a computer algorithm and win because the numbers are too random, they are more random than a wheel.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
November 24th, 2023 at 5:45:22 PM
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Quote: darkoz
Unlike you I don't get report cards anymore. I graduated a long time ago.
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These are super secret report cards that nobody gets to see without authorization. You don't have the authorization. And you are correct, at the school of learning roulette I will never graduate. There's always more to learn.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
November 24th, 2023 at 5:55:31 PM
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Quote: ChumpChangeThe syntax of the numbers spun is predictable if you know the code. It's like an ouija board and the spirits of the numbers are coming
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The Harry Potter Ouija board works best for this.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
November 24th, 2023 at 6:16:00 PM
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Quote: EvenBobQuote: darkoz
Unlike you I don't get report cards anymore. I graduated a long time ago.
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...., at the school of learning roulette I will never graduate.
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Agreed.
When someone can't graduate it's because they failed to pass.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
November 24th, 2023 at 7:06:48 PM
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Quote: darkoz
When someone can't graduate it's because they failed to pass.
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A true scholar never graduates because he never stops learning. That is certainly true for me. Just now I'm playing my last session and I win my unit immediately then I start playing virtually and oh my God, it was like a candy store. If I would have been betting I could have made 12 or 15 units. At times like that I'm so tempted but then I think if you're not happy with your goal why do you have a goal. So I talk myself out of it. It's like being on a diet and going to an all you can eat buffet. Are you on the diet or aren't you. Because there's still going to be food tomorrow, just like when I play my sessions tomorrow I'm still going to win. I don't need to make these extra units. It's different when you visit a casino in person because then you don't know what it's going to be like the next time you come so you almost have to try to make as much as you can. But online it's totally different psychology. Plan the play and play the plan, as the old timers used to say. If you're not going to do that why have a plan at all.
When I was a kid I used to love shooting arrows with a bow. But I would lose arrows sometimes and it seems like I never had enough. I had this recurring dream I was in a field that was covered with arrows stuck in the ground and I would run around getting armfuls or arrows as many as I could carry until I realized in the dream how many arrows do I need. It's kind of the same thing here, how many wins do I need. In this case just one so be happy you got the one. But that greed thing is always there and I always have to control it.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
