Is AP'ing worth it anymore?
Is all this time, stress, planning and networking even worth it? How hard is it to average a decent yearly income of say, $70,000 or more a year? It's like being an AP is essentially running your own business.
Why not put all this time and effort into a more traditional career path? There will be more stability and a much smaller chance of your income stream being cut overnight.
Or, like being a business owner, is it a matter of taking on calculated risks in an attempt to scale and earn a MUCH larger income than "working a regular job"?
Quote: Dyvan13It seems like to get ahold of SERIOUS EV opportunities - you have to be in the "know". You MUST have a network of like-minded AP's that you trade information with, and pool your bankrolls together to withstand nasty variance. With that being said, you also have to make sure you are trusting the right AP's and don't get defrauded. You also have to deal with casino's possibly weaseling their way out of paying you and mailer plays you've invested in vanishing without a trace.
Is all this time, stress, planning and networking even worth it? How hard is it to average a decent yearly income of say, $70,000 or more a year? It's like being an AP is essentially running your own business.
Why not put all this time and effort into a more traditional career path? There will be more stability and a much smaller chance of your income stream being cut overnight.
Or, like being a business owner, is it a matter of taking on calculated risks in an attempt to scale and earn a MUCH larger income than "working a regular job"?
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Every "regular job" I have had has gone out of business or laid off people.
During the pandemic shutdown everyone with regular jobs couldn't pay their bills. Me, I had a bankroll and backup funds precisely because AP work always faces sudden shutdowns.
I have to admit I cringed at all the adult babies crying how they were going to survive without pay. These are the same people who boast to me about how a regular job is more stable.
Welcome to my world lol! They all fell apart like the house of cards they had built.
Anyway, I make a lot more than $70,000 a year as an AP so it's possible if you find the right play. "In the know" well that's pretty much any lucrative situation.
I enjoy what I do and don't intend even considering going back to regular work.
you have to know how to know how to do things and most people do not know how to know how.
work and live a steady life.
stop trying to take the easy way out
Quote: heatmapi hate to go against darkoz because i see the merit in his journey here but the average man or woman is better off gaining a steady income and saving it rather than trying to rely on their own brains which is a bad idea
you have to know how to know how to do things and most people do not know how to know how.
work and live a steady life.
stop trying to take the easy way out
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I agree in principle.
Unfortunately the average man or woman doesn't know how to save. The shutdown proved that. So many people lived paycheck to paycheck and didn't have enough for a rainy two weeks much less the 9 months long pandemic shutdown.
But my argument wasn't about what is wise. It was that the so-called "stable" job is just an illusion. There is no stable job.
Companies have layoffs, change in management, technology obsolescence.
I purchased a sonic mice and roach repellent. Place it in your wall socket and you will never have mice again. I was reading the reviews. Everyone was raving and then one review was one star. It was from an exterminator who said the product was hokum. That only traditional means of extermination will ever work and he was sad so many people were being ripped off.
Hmmm, well I brought the sonic repellent and it's been two years since I saw a mouse or roach. Yep technological obsolescence for everyone. Even exterminators.
Stable jobs. Science fiction.
I am closing in on having done Advantage Play as long as my last profession (killed due to technological obsolescence) so I just don't see why anyone would claim AP is so prone to shutdown.
If you know what you are doing, are professional enough you can make a great living even through the regular casino shutdowns of plays.
Quote: darkozQuote: heatmapi hate to go against darkoz because i see the merit in his journey here but the average man or woman is better off gaining a steady income and saving it rather than trying to rely on their own brains which is a bad idea
you have to know how to know how to do things and most people do not know how to know how.
work and live a steady life.
stop trying to take the easy way out
link to original post
I agree in principle.
Unfortunately the average man or woman doesn't know how to save. The shutdown proved that. So many people lived paycheck to paycheck and didn't have enough for a rainy two weeks much less the 9 months long pandemic shutdown.
But my argument wasn't about what is wise. It was that the so-called "stable" job is just an illusion. There is no stable job.
Companies have layoffs, change in management, technology obsolescence.
I purchased a sonic mice and roach repellent. Place it in your wall socket and you will never have mice again. I was reading the reviews. Everyone was raving and then one review was one star. It was from an exterminator who said the product was hokum. That only traditional means of extermination will ever work and he was sad so many people were being ripped off.
Hmmm, well I brought the sonic repellent and it's been two years since I saw a mouse or roach. Yep technological obsolescence for everyone. Even exterminators.
Stable jobs. Science fiction.
I am closing in on having done Advantage Play as long as my last profession (killed due to technological obsolescence) so I just don't see why anyone would claim AP is so prone to shutdown.
If you know what you are doing, are professional enough you can make a great living even through the regular casino shutdowns of plays.
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I think there are lots of ‘stable’ jobs. I don’t mean that the specific job you hold might not be guaranteed, but there will always be a job for you. Get an RN degree and you will ALWAYS have a job. AZ mentions ‘the trades’ all the time.
I wouldn’t want the job of ‘Chief Diversity Officer’ at the Florida branch of the company I work for….
Quote: Dyvan13It seems like to get ahold of SERIOUS EV opportunities - you have to be in the "know". You MUST have a network of like-minded AP's that you trade information with, and pool your bankrolls together to withstand nasty variance. With that being said, you also have to make sure you are trusting the right AP's and don't get defrauded. You also have to deal with casino's possibly weaseling their way out of paying you and mailer plays you've invested in vanishing without a trace.
Is all this time, stress, planning and networking even worth it? How hard is it to average a decent yearly income of say, $70,000 or more a year? It's like being an AP is essentially running your own business.
Why not put all this time and effort into a more traditional career path? There will be more stability and a much smaller chance of your income stream being cut overnight.
Or, like being a business owner, is it a matter of taking on calculated risks in an attempt to scale and earn a MUCH larger income than "working a regular job"?
link to original post
If you are Close to Atlantic City I hear there is a Greek contingent
masquerading As slot hustlers but security working most likely for free with casino surveillance. That’s kind of like a stable job in AP if your into being someone who tells on others for money. That’s what the majority of failed APs end up doing anyway
$70k/yr for yourself WITH partners?Quote: Dyvan13It seems like to get ahold of SERIOUS EV opportunities - you have to be in the "know". You MUST have a network of like-minded AP's that you trade information with, and pool your bankrolls together to withstand nasty variance. With that being said, you also have to make sure you are trusting the right AP's and don't get defrauded. You also have to deal with casino's possibly weaseling their way out of paying you and mailer plays you've invested in vanishing without a trace.
Is all this time, stress, planning and networking even worth it? How hard is it to average a decent yearly income of say, $70,000 or more a year? It's like being an AP is essentially running your own business.
Why not put all this time and effort into a more traditional career path? There will be more stability and a much smaller chance of your income stream being cut overnight.
Or, like being a business owner, is it a matter of taking on calculated risks in an attempt to scale and earn a MUCH larger income than "working a regular job"?
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so you + 2 partners = $210k/yr?
i would say unlikely for the avg AP'er.
there's a husband + wife team at my local casino.
the wife is there full time. she picks up a few bucks here and there doing regal riches, the pig game, etc.
she won't play unless it's absolutely +ev (at least at the #s mentioned by the wiz's corresponding threads on these games, if not slightly higher).
the husband joins her in the late afternoon, presumably after his work.
He plays at slightly lower than wiz's recommendations.
i think the wife could make more $ working at starbucks at the state's minimum wage of $12+/hr and tips ($3/hr?).
the husband would be your problem being a full time AP'er.
i'm guessing his regular job allows him to absorb the loses of playing slightly -EV.
i'm betting he has more losing weeks than winning weeks but those winning weeks makes it seem worth it and/or the freeplay he gets.
there's also wealthy retired people playing for fun who notice us ap's and the #s we're playing at.
they undercut us by playing waaaay earlier like river dragons at $470 or $4850.
fortunately, these wealthy retired people only come once or twice a week.
I think it really depends....as in anything else in life.
I for sure will agree with darkoz on the illusion of job security, even the most "secure" jobs at one point can be prone to a sudden shutdown, heck, look at the recent news and with all the big tech companies laying off people. I'd bet most of them working there were just sure that they would never have to worry about looking for another job.
One thing about being an AP that I think appeals to the people that do it, the independence, you don't have a boss breathing down your neck, you don't HAVE to wake up and get somewhere at a certain time (and I'm talking generally I understand certain opportunities may be on a time limit or whatever), I'm sure also with all the travelling around doing different opportunities no two days are the same. The "cat and mouse" game may also appeal to some for a little adrenaline perhaps. However, that independence can be a curse for some people, they may be better suited to just having a simple office job, or have a trade job, you certainly have to put in the work to find opportunities and do the networking.
Nobody said though you have to go for making 70k+ a year doing AP right out of the gate though, I am sure for some (and I want to wager most perhaps) it started out as a part time hobby, and eventually said "hobby" was offering them more money than their regular day job, and I feel people that turned into making APing their new "job" didn't really have to ask themselves if they wanted to do APing as their new job, they just went and did it because it made sense for them.
You can also just keep it as a "for fun" hobby in your past time, maybe you don't have the bankroll, the network, or both to do it full time, maybe you don't want to always be travelling everywhere for new opportunities, maybe you don't want to be constantly hanging out in a casino environment all the time. Maybe you just enjoy the less lucrative opportunities and aren't looking for the "big" ones. I feel like if you are asking yourself if you want to do AP "full time", you probably fall into the camp of just wanting to keep it as a hobby, of course any big decision such as that should be given lots of thought, but again, I feel like the people that do it full time don't really have to ask themselves whether they want to do it, it just makes sense for them to do it full time, and they WANT to do it and enjoy it.
Being an AP without good plays is like being a pirate in an ocean without ships. Are you really a pirate?
So, what would you bring to a partnership if you don't know where to find good plays already? Nobody is going to train you to go out and compete with them. The machine players employed by teams don't seem to be making anywhere near what you require. They spend most of their days walking and punching buttons.
