IWannaBeAP
IWannaBeAP
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October 26th, 2022 at 5:59:19 PM permalink
Quote: DRich





Most of the modern player tracking systems do not conclude the player session until after the hand has finished. In the old days most systems would reward you for pulling the card early.
link to original post



By "Reward" do you mean count them as losses?

I think I know some casinos that still is that way.
darkoz
darkoz
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October 26th, 2022 at 8:09:10 PM permalink
Quote: IWannaBeAP

Quote: DRich





Most of the modern player tracking systems do not conclude the player session until after the hand has finished. In the old days most systems would reward you for pulling the card early.
link to original post



By "Reward" do you mean count them as losses?

I think I know some casinos that still is that way.
link to original post



What he means (unless he corrects me) is that you could pull the card when it was advantageous and the card would not record the wager or outcome. The card didn't record that Information until the outcome was completed.

But nowadays there would be no "reward" for pulling the card early as the card remains linked to the wager from the moment the button was pushed
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
IWannaBeAP
IWannaBeAP
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October 26th, 2022 at 11:19:11 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: IWannaBeAP

Quote: DRich





Most of the modern player tracking systems do not conclude the player session until after the hand has finished. In the old days most systems would reward you for pulling the card early.
link to original post



By "Reward" do you mean count them as losses?

I think I know some casinos that still is that way.
link to original post



What he means (unless he corrects me) is that you could pull the card when it was advantageous and the card would not record the wager or outcome. The card didn't record that Information until the outcome was completed.

But nowadays there would be no "reward" for pulling the card early as the card remains linked to the wager from the moment the button was pushed
link to original post



Yep, some casinos are still like this (the old way) then. I know of at least 2
darkoz
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October 27th, 2022 at 12:51:04 AM permalink
Quote: IWannaBeAP

Quote: darkoz

Quote: IWannaBeAP

Quote: DRich





Most of the modern player tracking systems do not conclude the player session until after the hand has finished. In the old days most systems would reward you for pulling the card early.
link to original post



By "Reward" do you mean count them as losses?

I think I know some casinos that still is that way.
link to original post



What he means (unless he corrects me) is that you could pull the card when it was advantageous and the card would not record the wager or outcome. The card didn't record that Information until the outcome was completed.

But nowadays there would be no "reward" for pulling the card early as the card remains linked to the wager from the moment the button was pushed
link to original post



Yep, some casinos are still like this (the old way) then. I know of at least 2
link to original post



Now that's something I would recommend not discussing openly here.

You already may have said too much. Advantage players on here will probably be scouring your posts to find a hint of where you play so they can bombard your location.

That's a highly sought after and rare opportunity.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
DRich
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October 27th, 2022 at 4:22:12 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: IWannaBeAP

Quote: DRich





Most of the modern player tracking systems do not conclude the player session until after the hand has finished. In the old days most systems would reward you for pulling the card early.
link to original post



By "Reward" do you mean count them as losses?

I think I know some casinos that still is that way.
link to original post



What he means (unless he corrects me) is that you could pull the card when it was advantageous and the card would not record the wager or outcome. The card didn't record that Information until the outcome was completed.

But nowadays there would be no "reward" for pulling the card early as the card remains linked to the wager from the moment the button was pushed
link to original post



Close. The card would record the wager or coin-in because that was already added to the meter. When the card was pulled it would report the current meters which would not include the win because the win doesn't happen until the game concludes. Most of the modern systems will wait to record the card out event until the current game has concluded which will include any win for that game.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
DRich
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October 27th, 2022 at 4:23:35 AM permalink
Quote: IWannaBeAP

Quote: DRich





Most of the modern player tracking systems do not conclude the player session until after the hand has finished. In the old days most systems would reward you for pulling the card early.
link to original post



By "Reward" do you mean count them as losses?

I think I know some casinos that still is that way.
link to original post



I would not be surprised at all if some casinos still have older systems that do not wait until the game concludes to report the meters.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
billryan
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October 27th, 2022 at 7:10:12 AM permalink
While it never happened, I was always afraid of what would happen if I got a handpay on someone else's card. I'd pull the cards whenever I got four to a Royal but was always worried about the dealt Royal. It was one of the reasons I usually stuck to VBJ when doing that.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
darkoz
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October 27th, 2022 at 7:26:52 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

While it never happened, I was always afraid of what would happen if I got a handpay on someone else's card. I'd pull the cards whenever I got four to a Royal but was always worried about the dealt Royal. It was one of the reasons I usually stuck to VBJ when doing that.
link to original post



So you were a multicarder?

Is that why you always attack my posts. Because what I do didn't work out for you?
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
billryan
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RogerKint
October 27th, 2022 at 7:55:38 AM permalink
Have you ever considered the reason I attack your posts is that you brought a fake cure for covid to other boards, insisted you know more about the science than people who actually study these things, and then did the same thing with bitcoin- insisting it was the most secure currency and was scam proof? Every cautionary post I put out about bitcoin at $60,000 was met with ridicule by you, insisting it was the best thing since free internet porn.
According to you, bitcoin should be about 100K, your lemonlabob would have saved civilization, and we'd all be millionaires by following your investment advice. I posted you had no idea what you were talking about, and I'll let the results speak for themselves. BC is sub 20,000, and your precious lemonlabob stock can be bought for a couple of recycled soda bottles.
My multi-carding experiment went just fine. I just realized there were better ways in which I want to spend my life. I was invited to re-join my old team a few weeks ago, and passed. Vegas was a great period in my life, a nice transition from NYC, and I'll return soon to see my friends, but gambling and being a casino parasite isn't my idea of a fulfilling life.
I'm not sure why I bothered responding because even if you take the time to read this, it won't sink in.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
SOOPOO
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October 27th, 2022 at 8:19:17 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Have you ever considered the reason I attack your posts is that you brought a fake cure for covid to other boards, insisted you know more about the science than people who actually study these things, and then did the same thing with bitcoin- insisting it was the most secure currency and was scam proof? Every cautionary post I put out about bitcoin at $60,000 was met with ridicule by you, insisting it was the best thing since free internet porn.
According to you, bitcoin should be about 100K, your lemonlabob would have saved civilization, and we'd all be millionaires by following your investment advice. I posted you had no idea what you were talking about, and I'll let the results speak for themselves. BC is sub 20,000, and your precious lemonlabob stock can be bought for a couple of recycled soda bottles.
My multi-carding experiment went just fine. I just realized there were better ways in which I want to spend my life. I was invited to re-join my old team a few weeks ago, and passed. Vegas was a great period in my life, a nice transition from NYC, and I'll return soon to see my friends, but gambling and being a casino parasite isn't my idea of a fulfilling life.
I'm not sure why I bothered responding because even if you take the time to read this, it won't sink in.
link to original post



I knew there was a reason, despite disagreeing with you 50% of the time, that I wanted you back! I am going to BEG DarkOz NOT to hijack this thread by responding.

It was clear from BR’s post that he multicarded. There was no reason to ask him if he multicarded. Other than to add the inflammatory comment which led to Billy’s eloquent response.

Let’s get back to talking about why casinos are unable to prevent AP’s from winning against them easily and consistently.
billryan
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October 27th, 2022 at 8:32:32 AM permalink
In my view, video poker is set up based on a cycle. Over the long term, a RF will hit roughly every fortysomething thousand hands.
I don't think the casino cares if Jhonny Rocker or Bob Dancer hits it. In BJ, a skilled player can take the casino's money. A skilled VP player is only taking money the casino has already decided to pay out as the cost of business. Bob Dancer sitting down at a machine doesn't change the odds of the machine paying off, whereas Anthony Curtis sitting down at a BJ table certainly will change the casino's expectations.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
AlanMendelson
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October 27th, 2022 at 9:17:29 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO



Let’s get back to talking about why casinos are unable to prevent AP’s from winning against them easily and consistently.
link to original post



Care to restate that?
AlanMendelson
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October 27th, 2022 at 9:18:54 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

In my view, video poker is set up based on a cycle. Over the long term, a RF will hit roughly every fortysomething thousand hands.
I don't think the casino cares if Jhonny Rocker or Bob Dancer hits it. In BJ, a skilled player can take the casino's money. A skilled VP player is only taking money the casino has already decided to pay out as the cost of business. Bob Dancer sitting down at a machine doesn't change the odds of the machine paying off, whereas Anthony Curtis sitting down at a BJ table certainly will change the casino's expectations.
link to original post



Well said.
JackSpade
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October 27th, 2022 at 9:24:18 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

In my view, video poker is set up based on a cycle. Over the long term, a RF will hit roughly every fortysomething thousand hands.
I don't think the casino cares if Jhonny Rocker or Bob Dancer hits it. In BJ, a skilled player can take the casino's money. A skilled VP player is only taking money the casino has already decided to pay out as the cost of business. Bob Dancer sitting down at a machine doesn't change the odds of the machine paying off, whereas Anthony Curtis sitting down at a BJ table certainly will change the casino's expectations.
link to original post



"Bob Dancer sitting down at a machine doesn't change the odds of the machine paying off" Of course it does - assuming we're comparing Bob Dancer to a novice who often guesses incorrectly which cards to hold and therefore often loses out on opportunities to hit big hands.

The casino would much prefer to pay a jackpot to a splashy tourist than a professional gambler. The pro is only going to be playing the best pay tables and always playing optimally, giving the casino a razor thin edge. He is also going to be in there milking the comp system, vulturing machines, playing progressives at an advantage, etc.

A gambler doesn't have to be playing a game at an actual advantage over the house to be a net negative for the casino. Someone who just plays VP optimally and earns player points is costing the casino money when considering the casino resources the player consumes - electricity, paper, ink, the time of accountants, cashiers, marketers, etc.
SOOPOO
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October 27th, 2022 at 9:46:28 AM permalink
Quote: JackSpade

Quote: billryan

In my view, video poker is set up based on a cycle. Over the long term, a RF will hit roughly every fortysomething thousand hands.
I don't think the casino cares if Jhonny Rocker or Bob Dancer hits it. In BJ, a skilled player can take the casino's money. A skilled VP player is only taking money the casino has already decided to pay out as the cost of business. Bob Dancer sitting down at a machine doesn't change the odds of the machine paying off, whereas Anthony Curtis sitting down at a BJ table certainly will change the casino's expectations.
link to original post



"Bob Dancer sitting down at a machine doesn't change the odds of the machine paying off" Of course it does - assuming we're comparing Bob Dancer to a novice who often guesses incorrectly which cards to hold and therefore often loses out on opportunities to hit big hands.

The casino would much prefer to pay a jackpot to a splashy tourist than a professional gambler. The pro is only going to be playing the best pay tables and always playing optimally, giving the casino a razor thin edge. He is also going to be in there milking the comp system, vulturing machines, playing progressives at an advantage, etc.

A gambler doesn't have to be playing a game at an actual advantage over the house to be a net negative for the casino. Someone who just plays VP optimally and earns player points is costing the casino money when considering the casino resources the player consumes - electricity, paper, ink, the time of accountants, cashiers, marketers, etc.
link to original post



This. I play -EV Pai Gow. Rarely play the bonus. If so for $1. Casino maybe makes $5 an hour off of me? If everyone played like I do they close. No ifs, ands, or buts.

Answering Alan. I have seen a few of the APs here show me what they do. To just be a winner is quite easy. To be a winner enough to call it a job and provide a good living not so easy, but very doable. I’m sure if I wanted to, it wouldn’t be difficult to get to low 6 figures a year. If doing it as a full time job.
darkoz
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October 27th, 2022 at 10:19:14 AM permalink
The Casinos do try to stop AP's but they just don't have the manpower. They do have the resources but not the manpower.

For example, they brag about how many cameras they have and they catch everything on camera.

But cameras aren't intelligent beings. Unless someone watches them and sees something nothing happens.

Usually it's 2-5 surveillance for 2500 cameras.

Also understand it's just a job to them. When the employees go home they are thinking about their families and next meal.

An AP lives the life. He's contemplating his next move and how to outwit the Casinos all day long.

Because generally he enjoys it.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
billryan
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October 27th, 2022 at 11:12:24 AM permalink
Quote: JackSpade

Quote: billryan

In my view, video poker is set up based on a cycle. Over the long term, a RF will hit roughly every fortysomething thousand hands.
I don't think the casino cares if Jhonny Rocker or Bob Dancer hits it. In BJ, a skilled player can take the casino's money. A skilled VP player is only taking money the casino has already decided to pay out as the cost of business. Bob Dancer sitting down at a machine doesn't change the odds of the machine paying off, whereas Anthony Curtis sitting down at a BJ table certainly will change the casino's expectations.
link to original post



"Bob Dancer sitting down at a machine doesn't change the odds of the machine paying off" Of course it does - assuming we're comparing Bob Dancer to a novice who often guesses incorrectly which cards to hold and therefore often loses out on opportunities to hit big hands.

The casino would much prefer to pay a jackpot to a splashy tourist than a professional gambler. The pro is only going to be playing the best pay tables and always playing optimally, giving the casino a razor thin edge. He is also going to be in there milking the comp system, vulturing machines, playing progressives at an advantage, etc.

A gambler doesn't have to be playing a game at an actual advantage over the house to be a net negative for the casino. Someone who just plays VP optimally and earns player points is costing the casino money when considering the casino resources the player consumes - electricity, paper, ink, the time of accountants, cashiers, marketers, etc.
link to original post




What happens when an AP hits a 100K jackpot? Not much. They pull out a book and wait to get paid. Then they continue playing so the casino knows that 100K will go back into the machines.
What happens when Judy from Sheepshead Bay hits 100K? She goes nuts, gets a big check and the casino watches her fly home with most of their money.
I don't think the casino worries about someone knowing the right play. Having played hundreds of thousands of hands on simulators, the difference in value between perfect play and your basic players is pennies per hand. If I were running a casino, I certainly want my big jackpots hit by a regular who will keep playing than by a tourists who ends up buying a new kitchen. Your views may differ.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
JackSpade
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October 27th, 2022 at 11:59:25 AM permalink
Quote: billryan


What happens when an AP hits a 100K jackpot? Not much. They pull out a book and wait to get paid. Then they continue playing so the casino knows that 100K will go back into the machines.
link to original post



An AP plays with an advantage. That means the casino is at a disadvantage if an AP decides to put 100K into its machines. The casino would prefer it if the AP spent his jackpot at a Lamborghini dealership.
tuttigym
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October 27th, 2022 at 12:03:41 PM permalink
Quote: JackSpade

Quote: billryan


What happens when an AP hits a 100K jackpot? Not much. They pull out a book and wait to get paid. Then they continue playing so the casino knows that 100K will go back into the machines.
link to original post



An AP plays with an advantage. That means the casino is at a disadvantage if an AP decides to put 100K into its machines. The casino would prefer it if the AP spent his jackpot at a Lamborghini dealership.
link to original post


Is that a 10 year old car with 100k miles?

tuttigym
JackSpade
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October 27th, 2022 at 12:12:15 PM permalink
Okay, so maybe $100K could still buy a new Cadillac. Or a Chevy.
darkoz
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October 27th, 2022 at 12:17:32 PM permalink
Quote: JackSpade

Okay, so maybe $100K could still buy a new Cadillac. Or a Chevy.
link to original post



Whoa whoa whoa.

After taxes, down to $65,000
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ChumpChange
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October 27th, 2022 at 12:18:49 PM permalink
Nobody answered. Deleted.
Last edited by: ChumpChange on Oct 27, 2022
darkoz
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October 27th, 2022 at 1:28:26 PM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

Nobody answered. Deleted.
link to original post



What was the question?
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Mental
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October 27th, 2022 at 1:51:48 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

Quote: darkoz



My strategy is to play only slots. And in particular slots with extremely BAD EV. I generally lose thousands per card this way.link to original post


As I have always said, generally, slots are for losers. But somehow you've managed to overcome all those losses with free play, where even though you lose on all that free play too, the net overcomes the over all loss.
link to original post

CZR comps slots twice as much as VP. Some B&M casinos have a higher ratio. Online casinos usually have play-thru requirements that are 10 times higher for VP than slots. They give comps and points at a 4-10x rate for slots versus VP. I like that I can just put slots on auto-play and do something interesting. With VP, BJ, UTHE, etc. I have to pay attention and do a lot of mouse clicks. I don't like it when a promo forces me to play VP or BJ, but if the EV is there I will do it grudgingly. Live-dealer BJ is horrible online. You can be heads up with a dealer for one spot and then two bozos will show up and take five spots for table minimums. With internet delays and their stupid play, they can really slow things to a crawl. Almost all my coin in is on slots.

If darkoz has a choice between grinding $1 VP for hours or pounding a $100 slot, I am sure he factors in a decent value for his time.
Gambling is a math contest where the score is tracked in dollars. Try not to get a negative score.
DRich
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October 27th, 2022 at 3:45:05 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

The Casinos do try to stop AP's but they just don't have the manpower. They do have the resources but not the manpower.

For example, they brag about how many cameras they have and they catch everything on camera.

But cameras aren't intelligent beings. Unless someone watches them and sees something nothing happens.

Usually it's 2-5 surveillance for 2500 cameras.



Very true. The surveillance guys are just doing random spot checks in most cases around the slot machines unless someone has asked them to look at something specifically. Table games are generally watched but not necessarily intently unless something triggers them. Obviously the main purpose of having the cameras is to go back in time and look at things after the fact. Isn't one of this forums members a surveillance guy? If so, he would know a lot more than me.

One of the first surveillance projects I worked on was triggering a camera to specifically point to a slot machine when the door opened on it. This was back in the late 1990's I think when the Harrah's New Orleans opened.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
AlanMendelson
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October 27th, 2022 at 3:57:27 PM permalink
Quote: JackSpade

The casino would prefer it if the AP spent his jackpot at a Lamborghini dealership.
link to original post



The only way a casino would want a jackpot winner to buy a Lamborghini is if the casino owned the dealership.

Go back to BillRyans post. He has it right.

Casinos have no problems with APs winning on machines. Someone has to win on machines. If it's an AP or its Martha from Michigan it's the same money.

But Martha from Michigan will take the money home.

The AP will not know to get up because it's just one long session for him.

Right? It's one long session.
AlanMendelson
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October 27th, 2022 at 3:58:57 PM permalink
The #1 job of surveillance is to watch the employees.
DRich
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October 27th, 2022 at 3:59:45 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

[

Casinos have no problems with APs winning on machines. Someone has to win on machines. If it's an AP or its Martha from Michigan it's the same money.



You are 100% wrong on that.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
darkoz
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October 27th, 2022 at 4:07:37 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Quote: AlanMendelson

[

Casinos have no problems with APs winning on machines. Someone has to win on machines. If it's an AP or its Martha from Michigan it's the same money.



You are 100% wrong on that.
link to original post



Hell, he's 200% wrong on that!
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
billryan
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AlanMendelson
October 27th, 2022 at 4:41:07 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Quote: AlanMendelson

[

Casinos have no problems with APs winning on machines. Someone has to win on machines. If it's an AP or its Martha from Michigan it's the same money.



You are 100% wrong on that.
link to original post



I understand casinos don't want APs vulturing progressives and must hit by machines but why would a casino rather have a tourist leave with the money rather than someone who funnels millions thru the machines? What am I missing?
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
darkoz
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October 27th, 2022 at 5:08:27 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

Quote: DRich

Quote: AlanMendelson

[

Casinos have no problems with APs winning on machines. Someone has to win on machines. If it's an AP or its Martha from Michigan it's the same money.



You are 100% wrong on that.
link to original post



I understand casinos don't want APs vulturing progressives and must hit by machines but why would a casino rather have a tourist leave with the money rather than someone who funnels millions thru the machines? What am I missing?
link to original post



You are missing that an AP is funneling millions through the machines to walk out with millions more.

In their eyes a player who gets lucky is just part of the bottom line. But one who is doing advantageous play is AFFECTING their bottom line.

Plus the lucky Ploppy can probably be wooed back with mailers and offers to lose it all back.

And failing that the Casino get huge publicity from the fact someone got lucky which is magnetic for the other ploppies even if the actual winner never returns

Meanwhile the AP keeps in the shadows. Leaves with the money and delivers nothing of worth to the casino.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
DRich
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October 27th, 2022 at 5:12:04 PM permalink
To put it simply, ploppies will lose it back eventually and AP's won't.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
Mental
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unJon
October 27th, 2022 at 5:55:59 PM permalink
The casino is not a monolithic entity with one defined purpose. The slot attendants want us to hit jackpots so they can collect tips. Some management employees don't care about the casinos bottom line. The slot director and promotions staff may be compensated partly based on the handle. If the compensation package is poorly designed, they might be incented to put loose VP on the floor and design overly generous promotions.

At some level of management, the bottom line matters a lot, either through equity incentives or through benchmarks. The shareholders want us to lose money and spend more money on overpriced drinks, food, and merch. These people should not want an AP to win a jackpot. AP's are a direct cash drain and also impose large costs while taking cash out of the enterprise.

The idea that ploppies will take the money back home and APs will keep it local is ridiculous. APs travel all over looking for an edge. Ploppies largely go back to the same few properties

Finally, some comments here are APs talking their book. They hope to convince casinos that that APs are fairly benign by making up fairy tales.
Gambling is a math contest where the score is tracked in dollars. Try not to get a negative score.
unJon
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October 27th, 2022 at 5:58:56 PM permalink
Well said, Mental.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
AlanMendelson
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October 27th, 2022 at 8:22:01 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: billryan

Quote: DRich

Quote: AlanMendelson

[

Casinos have no problems with APs winning on machines. Someone has to win on machines. If it's an AP or its Martha from Michigan it's the same money.



You are 100% wrong on that.
link to original post



I understand casinos don't want APs vulturing progressives and must hit by machines but why would a casino rather have a tourist leave with the money rather than someone who funnels millions thru the machines? What am I missing?
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You are missing that an AP is funneling millions through the machines to walk out with millions more.

In their eyes a player who gets lucky is just part of the bottom line. But one who is doing advantageous play is AFFECTING their bottom line.

Plus the lucky Ploppy can probably be wooed back with mailers and offers to lose it all back.

And failing that the Casino get huge publicity from the fact someone got lucky which is magnetic for the other ploppies even if the actual winner never returns

Meanwhile the AP keeps in the shadows. Leaves with the money and delivers nothing of worth to the casino.
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Hokus pokus. If Dancer has a 1% edge over the casinos playing VP how many millions of dollars must he play thru to walk out with a million?

Last time I looked 1% on $1million was $10,000.

And how many times has Dancer had a million dollar win?
AlanMendelson
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October 27th, 2022 at 8:25:53 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

To put it simply, ploppies will lose it back eventually and AP's won't.
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This is where your AP argument falls apart... the infallibility of APs.
AlanMendelson
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October 27th, 2022 at 8:33:30 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz



You are missing that an AP is funneling millions through the machines to walk out with millions more.



With a 1% edge? Nice trick.



Quote: darkoz

Plus the lucky Ploppy can probably be wooed back with mailers and offers to lose it all back.



Mailers and offers? The same thing APs need to have their edge.



Quote: darkoz

Meanwhile the AP keeps in the shadows. Leaves with the money and delivers nothing of worth to the casino.



Except when they lose.


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Last edited by: unnamed administrator on Oct 27, 2022
darkoz
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October 27th, 2022 at 9:30:29 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Quote: darkoz



You are missing that an AP is funneling millions through the machines to walk out with millions more.



With a 1% edge? Nice trick.



Quote: darkoz

Plus the lucky Ploppy can probably be wooed back with mailers and offers to lose it all back.



Mailers and offers? The same thing APs need to have their edge.



Quote: darkoz

Meanwhile the AP keeps in the shadows. Leaves with the money and delivers nothing of worth to the casino.



Except when they lose.


link to original post
link to original post



If you think it's only a 1% edge then you don't understand anything you have read here for the last several months.
Last edited by: unnamed administrator on Oct 27, 2022
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
AlanMendelson
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October 27th, 2022 at 10:12:24 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: AlanMendelson

Quote: darkoz



You are missing that an AP is funneling millions through the machines to walk out with millions more.



With a 1% edge? Nice trick.



Quote: darkoz

Plus the lucky Ploppy can probably be wooed back with mailers and offers to lose it all back.



Mailers and offers? The same thing APs need to have their edge.



Quote: darkoz

Meanwhile the AP keeps in the shadows. Leaves with the money and delivers nothing of worth to the casino.



Except when they lose.


link to original post
link to original post



If you think it's only a 1% edge then you don't understand anything you have read here for the last several months.
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Really? People have more than a 1% edge playing video poker or blackjack?
Last edited by: AlanMendelson on Oct 28, 2022
JackSpade
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October 27th, 2022 at 10:25:43 PM permalink
Sometimes an AP's edge is huge when the right circumstances align. There might be a situation where counting, collusion, hole carding, dealer errors, and loss rebates all combine to make a game crushable. Or an AP just happens to walk by a machine primed to pay out a $10,000 progressive jackpot to the next player who is willing to risk $5,000. I don't think there are many who can make a living on video poker alone, though in years past being a professional video poker player was more viable.
AlanMendelson
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October 27th, 2022 at 11:53:03 PM permalink
Quote: JackSpade

Or an AP just happens to walk by a machine primed to pay out a $10,000 progressive jackpot to the next player who is willing to risk $5,000.
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What???????
JackSpade
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October 27th, 2022 at 11:57:00 PM permalink
I am referring (for example) to Ainsworth must-hit progressive slots.
Dieter
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AlanMendelson
October 27th, 2022 at 11:59:53 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Moderator fix this quote please. Another glitch.
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I think I deleted the appropriate tag in each element of the series to fix the nesting to appropriate. I did not reorder the text blocks, so the arrangement is a bit nonstandard.
May the cards fall in your favor.
IWannaBeAP
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October 28th, 2022 at 12:17:59 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: IWannaBeAP

Quote: darkoz

Quote: IWannaBeAP

Quote: DRich





Most of the modern player tracking systems do not conclude the player session until after the hand has finished. In the old days most systems would reward you for pulling the card early.
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By "Reward" do you mean count them as losses?

I think I know some casinos that still is that way.
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What he means (unless he corrects me) is that you could pull the card when it was advantageous and the card would not record the wager or outcome. The card didn't record that Information until the outcome was completed.

But nowadays there would be no "reward" for pulling the card early as the card remains linked to the wager from the moment the button was pushed
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Yep, some casinos are still like this (the old way) then. I know of at least 2
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Now that's something I would recommend not discussing openly here.

You already may have said too much. Advantage players on here will probably be scouring your posts to find a hint of where you play so they can bombard your location.

That's a highly sought after and rare opportunity.
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You're right, I need to edit this out, but I don't see the edit button for some strange reason. Help?
Dieter
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October 28th, 2022 at 12:28:43 AM permalink
Quote: IWannaBeAP

You're right, I need to edit this out, but I don't see the edit button for some strange reason. Help?
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Edit functionality disappears after an initial opportunity to fix typos in a post.
Assume you have minutes or hours to amend, not fortnights or scores.
May the cards fall in your favor.
AlanMendelson
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October 28th, 2022 at 12:44:44 AM permalink
Quote: JackSpade

I am referring (for example) to Ainsworth must-hit progressive slots.
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Of course there's only ONE machine linked to this progressive.

Right?
darkoz
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October 28th, 2022 at 2:26:19 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Quote: JackSpade

I am referring (for example) to Ainsworth must-hit progressive slots.
link to original post



Of course there's only ONE machine linked to this progressive.

Right?
link to original post



Ab so effing lutely.

It's like you are just determined to speak on matters you have no knowledge of
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
billryan
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October 28th, 2022 at 3:34:36 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Quote: darkoz

Quote: AlanMendelson

Quote: darkoz



You are missing that an AP is funneling millions through the machines to walk out with millions more.



With a 1% edge? Nice trick.



Quote: darkoz

Plus the lucky Ploppy can probably be wooed back with mailers and offers to lose it all back.



Mailers and offers? The same thing APs need to have their edge.



Quote: darkoz

Meanwhile the AP keeps in the shadows. Leaves with the money and delivers nothing of worth to the casino.



Except when they lose.


link to original post
link to original post



If you think it's only a 1% edge then you don't understand anything you have read here for the last several months.
link to original post



Really? People have more than a 1% edge playing video poker or blackjack?
link to original post



When playing with free play, why do you need any edge? If you sit down at a machine with $400 in free play, what sort of an edge do you need to walk away ahead?
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
darkoz
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October 28th, 2022 at 4:05:42 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Quote: AlanMendelson

Quote: darkoz

Quote: AlanMendelson

Quote: darkoz



You are missing that an AP is funneling millions through the machines to walk out with millions more.



With a 1% edge? Nice trick.



Quote: darkoz

Plus the lucky Ploppy can probably be wooed back with mailers and offers to lose it all back.



Mailers and offers? The same thing APs need to have their edge.



Quote: darkoz

Meanwhile the AP keeps in the shadows. Leaves with the money and delivers nothing of worth to the casino.



Except when they lose.


link to original post
link to original post



If you think it's only a 1% edge then you don't understand anything you have read here for the last several months.
link to original post



Really? People have more than a 1% edge playing video poker or blackjack?
link to original post



When playing with free play, why do you need any edge? If you sit down at a machine with $400 in free play, what sort of an edge do you need to walk away ahead?
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For true Freeplay I agree.

Most Freeplay is earned so the edge needs to be the amount of the turnover minus the investment.

But it damn sure is better than 1% in most cases.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
AlanMendelson
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October 28th, 2022 at 4:11:59 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: AlanMendelson

Quote: JackSpade

I am referring (for example) to Ainsworth must-hit progressive slots.
link to original post



Of course there's only ONE machine linked to this progressive.

Right?
link to original post



Ab so effing lutely.

It's like you are just determined to speak on matters you have no knowledge of
link to original post



I'd like to see this ab so effing lutely single machine progressive.

I see lots of must hit jackpot machines... but they all have multiple machines linked in.

That keeps the gamble in the game.
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