Electricity prices to shutdown casinos during the arctic plunge?
No word on when prices will recover, but it's not this week, and prices will continue to skyrocket. Texans could be paying $5-$10 per kilowatt-hour today, and multiples of that by the end of this week.
For a low user on 20 kw-hr/day, that'd be $100-$200 a day for electricity now.
https://www.zerohedge.com/energy/energy-emergency-texas-power-provider-warns-rotating-outages-cold-weather-tests-limits-grid
That answer is no. Ercot is a stand-alone grid.
What happens here is that the utility companies file with the Public Utility Commission (PUC) for rate increases over the next term - perhaps quarterly - such that you get a regulated price increase that's consistent over the rating period. The PUC is notably anti-provider, and "consumer-friendly," so from a business point of view it's a battle for the utilities to do business here. Of course, every time the wind blows the politicos are more than ready to crucify National Grid for not having a bucket truck at every street-corner to keep the lights on. Oh yeah - if you don't pay your bill, don't worry. They can almost never shut you off for owing months and moths of unpaid bills.
So I don't think my electricity bill is going to go up this month, regardless of how cold it gets. My rates didn't go up last summer when everyone was running the AC, either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000%E2%80%9301_California_electricity_crisis
Going from $50 to $100/mwh for 3 days is a non-event. That's less than 1% on an annualized basis.
Are you saying that the tva's rates have doubled? Interesting!
https://www.zerohedge.com/energy/energy-emergency-texas-power-provider-warns-rotating-outages-cold-weather-tests-limits-grid
Quote: ChumpChangeEnergy Trader: We've Officially Hit The "Holy **** Levels" | ZeroHedge
https://www.zerohedge.com/energy/energy-emergency-texas-power-provider-warns-rotating-outages-cold-weather-tests-limits-grid
Omg, lmao @ "lubelessly pounded". One thing that breaks in TX - people with on-site backup generators have gas fired units. Power costs $3k/mwh & gas is $377/dth + 200% penalty. And/but, there will be brown outs & the ICE has no gas offered for most TX trading points. So the cost either way is astronomical & there's nobody available to sell at those (or any) price. I've told a university customer to cancel everything through Tuesday, shutter the campus, set everything back, and sell their fixed price supply into this gas market. They'll make 100k by keeping the kids out of the academic side of campus for 3 days.
It's hard to really appreciate this issue. It's 45 degrees colder here than it is in TX - it's barely freezing in TX - and they're the ones with a problem.
One thing I don't get - the article suggests setting thermostats back to 68. That's warmer than where mine is ever set in the winter. Do Texans really heat to more than 68?
a few thousand of gallons per hour( I think it's thousands) and 2 pond heaters. I think my winter average is about $160.
Quote: rdw4potus
One thing I don't get - the article suggests setting thermostats back to 68. That's warmer than where mine is ever set in the winter. Do Texans really heat to more than 68?
Mine is never below 72 unless we are in bed. I would prefer 76 but my wife runs the house.
In the summer I prefer it around 80 but the wife wants 75. We compromise at 78. At 78 my electric bill is about $600 a month in the summer.
Quote: rdw4potusReally? It's 10 below here. Mine is set to 65 and it's 66 in here right now. Do you have a similar issue in the summer? Can it not get the temp down to the summer setpoint?
I've got hot water pipe heat that runs around 180F when it's 45 degrees out, and barely makes 160F when it's 0 degrees out. My apartment has 2 wall air conditioners that I turn on if it's 80 degrees inside, then it cools the room down to 73F-76F. With global warming this century, we get a few 99 degree days each year where none of that existed decades ago. We'd get 92 degrees for highs back in the day.
The heat gets turned off around June 1st, but we've had near freezing nights in early June too. I have a couple electric fan heaters and an oil filled electric radiator for supplemental heat.
https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/texas/federal-emergency-declaration-for-severe-winter-weather-in-texas/285-f242c695-79f9-4f34-a2b2-4af680b0a4e0
"Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency. Emergency protective measures for mass care and sheltering and direct federal assistance will be provided at 75 percent federal funding.
That's why electricity consumption is highest during the summer and not during the winter. Very cold temperatures are a strain on natural gas supply, and not so much on electricity.
Whatever problems the arctic temperatures may cause, I see no reason to presume that the national casino industry will be much affected. And the notion that electricity prices will spike by factors of >2-10x is not credible -the marketplace just doesn't work like that.
If they were only smart enough to use candles.Quote: gordonm888Virtually all air conditioning is powered by electricity, but a lot of building heat (residential and commercial) is powered by natural gas, with some propane and oil. Only heat provided by heat pumps depends upon electricity. Some residences also use wood-burning stoves to produce heat (usually supplemental.) Some large industrial sites burn coal for heat.
I've got a winter storm warning tonight for 7-14 inches of snow, and a repeat in the forecast a few days later.
Nearly a quarter of CenterPoint Energy customers in Houston are without power, according to Mayor Sylvester Turner. He added issues are beyond the rolling blackouts.
https://www.khou.com/video/news/local/houston-power-outages-mayor-sylvester-turner-update/285-51820f78-1794-49d2-ad5d-c0a9a25c0935
Ice storms knocked out nearly half the wind-power generating capacity of Texas on Sunday as a rare deep freeze across the state locked up turbine towers while driving electricity demand to record levels, the state’s grid operator reported. https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2AF066?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=twitter
AVERAGE SPOT POWER PRICE ACROSS TEXAS HITS $9,000 CAP ($9/kwhr)
CenterPoint is now telling its customers in the Houston area they could be without power for at least the rest of the day Monday, and probably Tuesday.
https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/texas/how-long-do-rolling-blackouts-last/285-20fc4086-964d-4d6f-98f7-7b995fb58a15
MARATHON'S GALVESTON BAY REFINERY SHUTS DUE TO COLD: REUTERS
Luckily nobody needs gasoline since all cars are electric and it now costs $20,000 to charge them.
Galveston City Manager Brian Maxwell confirms Galveston is 100% without power. Damage to homes from freezes could be worse than some hurricanes if it doesn't return soon.
EXXON SHUTTING BEAUMONT TEXAS REFINERY DUE TO SEVERE COLD WEATHER -SOURCES
Quote: gordonm888
Whatever problems the arctic temperatures may cause, I see no reason to presume that the national casino industry will be much affected. And the notion that electricity prices will spike by factors of >2-10x is not credible -the marketplace just doesn't work like that.
I agree that the national casino industry is minimally affected. But I strongly disagree with the remainder of this paragraph. Pricing at PJM West, Northern Illinois Hub, AEP/Dayton Hub is all about 2x higher for yesterday-tomorrow's day-ahead hourlies than it was for the same hours on thursday and friday. And, Texas pricing really is 280x higher than it was last week ($7k/MWh for HE 1700 today, $25 for the same hour on Wednesday at North Zone (Dallas)).
The power system operator said in a statement that this is the first time it has ever had to order rolling outages and that it had exhausted all other options for protecting the grid. “It’s a last resort,” the agency said. “It’s a step we’re consciously taking to prevent circumstances from getting worse, which could result in uncontrolled outages of even greater magnitude.”
Quote: mcallister3200Almost had a Darwin award. Family of six from Houston taken to hospital for carbon monoxide poisoning after using a charcoal grill to heat apartment.
They were just emulating EvenBob on a large scale; EB heats his bedroom by burning candles, apparently unaware of the health hazards of combustion gases. Hint: there is a reason why a stovetop in a kitchen must be vented to the exterior of the house.
Quote: gordonm888Virtually all air conditioning is powered by electricity, but a lot of building heat (residential and commercial) is powered by natural gas, with some propane and oil.
A lot of the biggest skyscrapers
in NYC use steam for heat and
to run the air conditioners. City
steam, made by NYC. Since the
late 19th century NYC has sold
steam to buildings, including
the Empire State Bldg. Ever see
those big cone shaped things
in the middle of a NYC street
that have white smoke coming
out of them? Those are steam
vents to regulate the pressure.
Quote: AxelWolfIf they were only smart enough to use candles.
It's not using candles that's smart,
it's BUYING them right that's the
smart part. Candles are very
expensive per BTU.
Quote: gordonm888They were just emulating EvenBob on a large scale; EB heats his bedroom by burning candles, apparently unaware of the health hazards of combustion gases.
Sigh. I posted an article awhile
back that said there is no danger
from candles in an average
ventilated room. In a car, yeah.
Did you ever see the warning
on candle wrappers saying you
can die burning candles in your
bedroom? There isn't one.
Quote: EvenBobIt's not using candles that's smart,
it's BUYING them right that's the
smart part. Candles are very
expensive per BTU.
Any smart prepper buys a ton of those little tea light candles and puts them in their blackout bag.
LED flashlights & lanterns are what I bought in the last couple years.
I don't think I got more than an inch of snow.
Quote: AxelWolfIf they were only smart enough to use candles.
Single females and their candles are a major cause of fires in NYC. They light them in their bedrooms and while taking baths. Then a towel, a robe or a shower curtain catches fire. Or they fall asleep, the candles burn down, and in three minutes, the bedroom is fully involved.
Firefighter to woman watching her apartment engulfed in flames. "Why were you burning candles?" "For ambience" "Works for me. I'm a firefighter."
I was thinking about getting something like this to heat a small bedroom if we lose power for an extended period in the winter -
Mr. Heater F232000 MH9BX Buddy 4,000-9,000-BTU Indoor-Safe Portable Propane Radiant Heater, Red-Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002G51BZU/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_3AHNWV3KZ6QJCXQXVWV4
Seems like a death trap at first glance, but looking into it I don’t see any reason why it wouldn’t be safe.
What ever happened to indoor kerosine heaters? Weren’t they all the rage 30-40+ years ago?
Quote: gamerfreak
Mr. Heater F232000 MH9BX Buddy 4,000-9,000-BTU Indoor-Safe Portable Propane Radiant Heater, Red-Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002G51BZU/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_3AHNWV3KZ6QJCXQXVWV4
Seems like a death trap at first glance, but looking into it I don’t see any reason why it wouldn’t be safe.
Okay for a camp site. Not for enclosed spaces.
Explosion and carbon monoxide hazard.
Tennis star Vitas Gerulaitis died in his sleep due to CO poisoning from a propane heater.
The Berzomatic 20 lbs. Empty Propane Tank goes with your gas barbecue grill (sold separately) and accommodates 4.7 Gal. of gas. The tank is refillable so you can use it for years. You can also easily carry it around with you to get refilled and take it wherever you need it your home, RV, vacation home and more.
So 4.7 Gal of gas divided by 20 = 0.235 gal per 1 lb
1 lb would last 5.34 hours at 4000 BTU, and 2.37 hours at 9000 BTU
20 lb would last 106.8 hours at 4000 BTU, and 47.4 hours at 9000 BTU.
Quote: ChumpChangeJust turned on The Weather Channel. It says 2.6 million customers (or over 5 million people) in Texas don't have power; and over 40K customers don't have power in Louisiana. DFW airport just went to a ground stop and it's 6 degrees outside.
Imagine when this happens years from now, and millions of people can't charge their electric cars.
Quote: TankoOkay for a camp site. Not for enclosed spaces.
Explosion and carbon monoxide hazard.
Tennis star Vitas Gerulaitis died in his sleep due to CO poisoning from a propane heater.
Right I realize how things similar to this can kill people, but propane is pretty safe indoors and doesn’t always require ventilation.
Where I live in PA, gas service is very uncommon. Most people have large propane tanks outside of their house for cooking and heat .
The heater I linked to says its fine indoors and has a CO detector built in.
4 Million Texans Without Power Amid Grid Collapse, As Second Storm Nears
https://www.zerohedge.com/weather/4-million-texans-without-power-amid-grid-collapse-second-storm-nears
Quote: ChumpChangeDoes the propane truck come around every 3 weeks to refill the outdoor tanks?
Yes, a truck comes to refill the tank. But not every few weeks, maybe once or twice a year depending on what the house is using propane for, the tanks are pretty large.
For most houses it’s just cooking, hot water, and supplemental heat like fire places. But they make other propane appliances like dryers, and believe it or not refrigerators/freezers, which are popular with the Amish.
Oil heat is common here as well. Usually houses have a 500 gallon tank in the basement or underground, that gets a delivery about once a year.
I thought all this was commonplace until I started talking to friends who live outside of PA.
Quote: DOEPellet fuel appliances burn compacted pellets usually made of wood, but they can also be derived from other organic materials. Some models can burn nutshells, corn kernels, and small wood chips.
Pellet fuel appliances are more convenient to operate than ordinary wood stoves or fireplaces, and some have much higher combustion and heating efficiencies. As a consequence of this, they produce very little air pollution. In fact, pellet stoves are the cleanest solid fuel, residential heating appliance. Pellet stoves that are certified by the EPA are likely to be in the 70% to 83% efficiency range. Pellet stoves have heating capacities that range between 8,000 and 90,000 Btu per hour. They are suitable for homes as well as apartments or condominiums.....
All pellet fuel appliances have a fuel hopper to store the pellets until they are needed for burning. Most hoppers hold between 35 and 130 pounds (16 and 60 kilograms [kg]) of fuel, which will last a day or more under normal operating conditions. A feeder device, like a large screw, drops a few pellets at a time into the combustion chamber for burning. How quickly pellets are fed to the burner determines the heat output. The exhaust gases are vented by way of a small flue pipe that can be directed out a sidewall or upwards through the roof. More advanced models have a small computer and thermostat to govern the pellet feed rate.
Quote: TankoOkay for a camp site. Not for enclosed spaces.
Explosion and carbon monoxide hazard.
Tennis star Vitas Gerulaitis died in his sleep due to CO poisoning from a propane heater.
Official on TV says don't use gas or propane heaters indoors because of CO poisoning.
Quote: TumblingBonesLook into using a wood pellet heater. I had a friend who lived in a end-of-the grid area of N California and frequently lost power. He had a wood pellet heating system and swore by it. That was ~ 30 years ago and I gather they have gotten more sophisticated since then.
Unfortunately I’m in a small townhouse and have no space. I’m hoping to move in a couple years to something bigger and would love a pellet stove or wood burning stove.
Quote: EvenBobIt's not using candles that's smart,
it's BUYING them right that's the
smart part. Candles are very
expensive per BTU.
A snow cave is free and can insulate you from -40F.
Quote: TankoImagine when this happens years from now, and millions of people can't charge their electric cars.
That's why you're also supposed to buy Tesla's rooftop solar kit with whole-home battery! Duh:-)
And, worth noting, gasoline pumps require electricity. So much of north Texas can't buy fuel now...
Quote: rdw4potusThat's why you're also supposed to buy Tesla's rooftop solar kit with whole-home battery! Duh:-)
And, worth noting, gasoline pumps require electricity. So much of north Texas can't buy fuel now...
I was looking into the Tesla system. It’s quite expensive and my area of the Northeast is not the sunniest.
Quote: rdw4potusThat's why you're also supposed to buy Tesla's rooftop solar kit with whole-home battery! Duh:-)
And, worth noting, gasoline pumps require electricity. So much of north Texas can't buy fuel now...
Friend bought Chevy Volt. Has solar panels on his house. He says he pays nothing to ‘fill it up’ with electricity. It does have a gas engine backup for longer trips.
Probably a PacoMartin type question..
If we use X gallons of gas/diesel per year in the USA in 2021, what will we use in 2036?
on wood and pellet heating:Quote: TumblingBonesLook into using a wood pellet heater. I had a friend who lived in a end-of-the grid area of N California and frequently lost power. He had a wood pellet heating system and swore by it. That was ~ 30 years ago and I gather they have gotten more sophisticated since then. From the DOE web site
most wood pellet stoves also require electricity that’s why I went with a wood stove.Quote: DOEPellet fuel appliances burn compacted pellets usually made of wood, but they can also be derived from other organic materials. Some models can burn nutshells, corn kernels, and small wood chips.
Pellet fuel appliances are more convenient to operate than ordinary wood stoves or fireplaces, and some have much higher combustion and heating efficiencies. As a consequence of this, they produce very little air pollution. In fact, pellet stoves are the cleanest solid fuel, residential heating appliance. Pellet stoves that are certified by the EPA are likely to be in the 70% to 83% efficiency range. Pellet stoves have heating capacities that range between 8,000 and 90,000 Btu per hour. They are suitable for homes as well as apartments or condominiums.....
All pellet fuel appliances have a fuel hopper to store the pellets until they are needed for burning. Most hoppers hold between 35 and 130 pounds (16 and 60 kilograms [kg]) of fuel, which will last a day or more under normal operating conditions. A feeder device, like a large screw, drops a few pellets at a time into the combustion chamber for burning. How quickly pellets are fed to the burner determines the heat output. The exhaust gases are vented by way of a small flue pipe that can be directed out a sidewall or upwards through the roof. More advanced models have a small computer and thermostat to govern the pellet feed rate.
