push for casino in Times Square

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and elsewhere in NYC
right now looks doubtful
lots of opposition - tough battle with legislators



https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/21/nyregion/casino-manhattan-nyc.html?action=click&module=Latest&pgtype=Homepage

It’s a new article about old news. You’d think the day after the inauguration wouldn’t be a slow news day. Whatever.

NY Times has a pay wall, and only shows a few sentences. Here’s one of them:

Quote: NYT

The concept is hardly new.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

NY Times has a pay wall, and only shows a few sentences.

if you got stopped by their paywall it means you already read one their stories for the month (I think it's a month)


their paywall, and every other newspaper paywall I've ever encountered can easily be beat by clearing your history and cookies
they don't track your IP address


if you need something that's in your history you can just bookmark it



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Times Square is some of the most expensive real estate in the country and would be a horrible place for a casino

Quote: billryan

Times Square is some of the most expensive real estate in the country and would be a horrible place for a casino

yes, and it makes one wonder how all those little joints that are there survive
they must have to do a ton of business just to make rent



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Quote: lilredrooster

yes, and it makes one wonder how all those little joints that are there survive
they must have to do a ton of business just to make rent



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It's precisely because a ton of business is there that the prices are so high.

Catskills Casino upstate is in a lush dense wood surrounded by nothing but miles and miles of trees and a highway and has a monopoly on gambling for 90 minutes in either direction.

Catskills Casino is doing terrible business month after month!

Where would you rather build a casino? The dense woods where no one passes by generally or Times Square where the crowds are shoulder to shoulder on any given day?

A long time reason for casino success was the lack of competition. Las Vegs. Then Nevada, then Atlantic City, and then Foxwoods, adding Mohegan.

Nowadays there's a casino on every street corner, whether in a densely populated metropolis or deep in the forest.

The casino business as an industry is always going to be profitable since the built-in house edge in every game pretty much guarantees it. But flooding the market with so many properties allows for customer choice. Government (that is TAXING) authorities figured that if we build it they will come. But not when everybody does it.

A casino in Manhattan would be profitable due to the traffic passing by. But those folks will just stop going to Connecticut, New Jersey, or upstate. Net increase of gambling revenue would be near zero.

Quote: fantom

Nowadays there's a casino on every street corner, whether in a densely populated metropolis or deep in the forest.

authorities figured that if we build it they will come. But not when everybody does it.

Net increase of gambling revenue would be near zero.

you have a point but casinos are far from everywhere
Georgia, Hawaii, South Carolina, Vermont, Virginia, New Hampshire, Kentucky and Utah do not have land based or tribal casinos

I'm in Maryland but I would have to drive about an hour to get to a casino - in some states I'm sure residents would have to drive much further

a person who does not want to drive to a casino who lives in NYC will be much more likely to visit one if it's a half hour or less trip for him

just as if you are in a state where recreational marijuana is legal, many near one of those stores would be much more likely to be a user then if they weren't near such a store and had to hustle to find the stuff

so, I don't think the net increase of revenue would be near zero
but some of the older joints might lose a significant amount of business
but I think quite a bit more would be gained than what was lost

before Covid, Atlantic City had rebounded - despite fierce competition from PA and Maryland which represented a lot of their customer base

a great many predicted the downfall of Vegas when A.C. got rolling - didn't happen




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I imagine that cash strapped New York City just wants a piece of the action. How it would effect other casinos upstate or in other states is the least of their concerns.

There is already a casino in NYC, and another one about a mile from the city border.

A poor choice of words on my part. "A bigger piece of the pie" would be more accurate.

There are many casinos in Central and Inner London, and two a little further out. There's then a 30-mile break before you find ones in Luton (N), Reading, (W) or Southend (E). I suspect serious poker players travel to either but there seems to be larger gamblers in London ones. Also people on business (or holiday) might not trek out of town, but would go to the London ones.

Thus I see no reason why ones in New York, or any other similar large sprawling city, wouldn't work.

Governors Island sits in NY Harbor, between Brooklyn and Manhattan, roughly across from Ellis Island. Formerly First Army Headquarters, it was then used as a Coast Guard base until it was given to NYC. NYC is an archipelago, with a number of islands that could be used for a casino. I just don't think the cost of land in and around Times Square would make any casino feasible.

Quote: billryan

Governors Island sits in NY Harbor, between Brooklyn and Manhattan, roughly across from Ellis Island. Formerly First Army Headquarters, it was then used as a Coast Guard base until it was given to NYC. NYC is an archipelago, with a number of islands that could be used for a casino. I just don't think the cost of land in and around Times Square would make any casino feasible.

If bowling alleys movie theaters, McDonald's, Popeyes, mom and pop candy stores and pizza shops (including one pizza shop that advertises $1 slices) and let's not forget a plethora of hotels already can survive, I find it difficult to believe a billion dollar Casino complex in the heart of the city would find difficulty in maintaining their costs

That's the thing. Few tourists visit New York to gamble (not counting the Belmont Stakes). There's just too many famous places to see. And one of the most famous places is Times Square. Put in a casino catering to these tourists and yeah; I think city gambling revenue would increase dramatically.

Quote: darkoz

If bowling alleys movie theaters, McDonald's, Popeyes, mom and pop candy stores and pizza shops (including one pizza shop that advertises $1 slices) and let's not forget a plethora of hotels already can survive, I find it difficult to believe a billion dollar Casino complex in the heart of the city would find difficulty in maintaining their costs

A billion dollars won't buy the land needed for a casino entrance. All those shops you mentioned are placeholders while the landowners await their big payoff when the next big project hits. As long as the shops rent covers the landlords taxes, they are ok. The NY Times building is pretty much the last big project in the TS area and cost 850 million to build in 2002. Much of the land was taken under Eminent Domain and it is only about 80,000 Square feet.
Casinos thrived in Vegas because the land was cheap. Same thing in Atlantic City.

Quote: billryan

A billion dollars won't buy the land needed for a casino entrance. All those shops you mentioned are placeholders while the landowners await their big payoff when the next big project hits. As long as the shops rent covers the landlords taxes, they are ok. The NY Times building is pretty much the last big project in the TS area and cost 850 million to build in 2002. Much of the land was taken under Eminent Domain and it is only about 80,000 Square feet.
Casinos thrived in Vegas because the land was cheap. Same thing in Atlantic City.

They thrived because players showed up.

Ignoring one of the busiest business, tourist and locals hubs on the globe because the land is going to cost seems ridiculous imo

Again, to bring up Catskills NY Casino. That land had to be dirt cheap. A bunch of woods in the middle of nowhere surrounded by a few nearly bankrupt towns (Monticello ten minutes away is boarded up businesses on every other block.)

Cheap land doesn't mean profits especially in today's Casino climate