The Homeless Experience (split-off)
Quote: MaxPenProperty is usually considered a good hedge against inflation. As long as one guarantees the ability to make the payment a low interest loan could be optimal. Wages definitely do not have a history of tracking with extreme inflation. People who are leveraged usually lose everything due to inability to pay. All resources are required for bare survival. The banks take back properties, reorganize, and redistribute under new system.
If anyone on here loses everything please dont hesitate to ask me about survival on the NYC subways.
I know a few good eateries that give their food to the homeless at end of business day.
To some extent I ate just as well then as I do now. I just basically pay for option of eating when I choose instead of waiting for end of business day.
Quote: darkozIf anyone on here loses everything please dont hesitate to ask me about survival on the NYC subways.
I know a few good eateries that give their food to the homeless at end of business day.
To some extent I ate just as well then as I do now. I just basically pay for option of eating when I choose instead of waiting for end of business day.
Why are ex-homeless people so proud of their past curcumstance and experience?
I think it has to do with the culture of homelessness itself. I've noticed in the homeless community that people with the most strife are revered the most. It's like a badge of honor to have been on the street the longest, survive the worst child abuse, have the worst addictions. It is some kind of screwed up world where sclerosis of the liver and hepatitis are awarded merit badges.
Quote: MaxPenWhy are ex-homeless people so proud of their past curcumstance and experience?
I think it has to does with the culture of homelessness itself. I've noticed in the homeless community that people with the most strife are revered the most. It's like a badge of honor to have been on the street the longest, survive the worst child abuse, have the worst addictions. It is some kind of screwed up world where sclerosis of the liver and hepatitis are awarded merit badges.
Spend a lot of time with the homeless ,do you?
Quote: MaxPenWhy are ex-homeless people so proud of their past curcumstance and experience?
I think it has to does with the culture of homelessness itself. I've noticed in the homeless community that people with the most strife are revered the most. It's like a badge of honor to have been on the street the longest, survive the worst child abuse, have the worst addictions. It is some kind of screwed up world where sclerosis of the liver and hepatitis are awarded merit badges.
You've noticed? Based on what? You went around interviewing homeless people? You read it in a book?
The mark of a person is not how they deal with life when all goes well but when all goes wrong.
People who find themselves homeless and manage to climb out of it are the stronger people not the weaker ones who never have to face such a challenge in life and whose sole position is to look down on those who do.
Your attitude reminds me heavily of all those millionaires during the stock market crash of 1929. Lots of formerly rich people leaping out of 20th story buildings. Those are the weak ones. Those are the ones who could only brag when things went well but couldn't cope when things went wrong
The ones who dealt with the distress of the great depression and climbed out of it have the right to be proud.
And similarly so do todays homeless if they can manage to make a better life. Most homeless have to do it on their own which is why it takes so long but also why they are so proud once they do accomplish it.
Quote: billryanSpend a lot of time with the homeless ,do you?
I spent quite a bit of time talking to homeless people when I lived downtown. There was a couple who lived on a bus bench across the street from my building that I would talk to atleast once every other day for extended periods of time.
Quote: darkozYou've noticed? Based on what? You went around interviewing homeless people? You read it in a book?
The mark of a person is not how they deal with life when all goes well but when all goes wrong.
People who find themselves homeless and manage to climb out of it are the stronger people not the weaker ones who never have to face such a challenge in life and whose sole position is to look down on those who do.
Your attitude reminds me heavily of all those millionaires during the stock market crash of 1929. Lots of formerly rich people leaping out of 20th story buildings. Those are the weak ones. Those are the ones who could only brag when things went well but couldn't cope when things went wrong
The ones who dealt with the distress of the great depression and climbed out of it have the right to be proud.
And similarly so do todays homeless if they can manage to make a better life. Most homeless have to do it on their own which is why it takes so long but also why they are so proud once they do accomplish it.
"People who find themselves homeless" is an interesting quote. As if somehow, it just magically happens. I would say the majority of homeless blame anyone but themself for their situation.
It is hard to be homeless in America for any length of time if you are of sound mind and able body. I get that for some it is a lifestyle choice. Usually don't find those characters on the streets though.
You spent 7 years living on the subway. Why so long?
Quote: MaxPen"People who find themselves homeless" is an interesting quote. As if somehow, it just magically happens. I would say the majority of homeless blame anyone but themself for their situation.
It is hard to be homeless in America for any length of time if you are of sound mind and able body. I get that for some it is a lifestyle choice. Usually don't find those characters on the streets though.
You spent 7 years living on the subway. Why so long?
No only 2 years.
I lived with others for the first five. Technically not homeless but living in homes that were not mine at the discretion of others. I paid whatever I could towards rent as the income (pretty erratic) came in.
So I say 7 years but I really was truly street homeless for only two.
It is easy to say a person can raise themselves out of homelessness by those who haven't experienced it. Like AP, it is much harder than it appears and a small percentage are successful at getting out on their own.
To assume people stay that way because they want to or are choosing to is ignorant to the way it works. There may be a few who choose it, I met a few but most would be happier being able to live on their own with a roof over their head (and not a subway roof)
Where else would he get any tranny action?Quote: billryanSpend a lot of time with the homeless ,do you?
Quote: AxelWolfWhere else would he get any tranny action?
Yeah, that made it worth splitting off this conversation. ...Not.
I wouldn't think a post "Hey look at me, I f*****d up enough to have been homeless" was worth mentioning, let alone an entire thread. I guess some people think it could make for a good story. I guess being homeless at one time is the new cool thing.Quote: beachbumbabsYeah, that made it worth splitting off this conversation. ...Not.
Quote: MaxPenI spent quite a bit of time talking to homeless people when I lived downtown. There was a couple who lived on a bus bench across the street from my building that I would talk to atleast once every other day for extended periods of time.
You are leaving out that you WERE WAITING FOR THE BUS and with time to kill had conversations with the homeless living on the bus bench.
How much was that casino bonus you were after?
Quote: darkozNo only 2 years.
I lived with others for the first five. Technically not homeless but living in homes that were not mine at the discretion of others. I paid whatever I could towards rent as the income (pretty erratic) came in.
So I say 7 years but I really was truly street homeless for only two.
It is easy to say a person can raise themselves out of homelessness by those who haven't experienced it. Like AP, it is much harder than it appears and a small percentage are successful at getting out on their own.
To assume people stay that way because they want to or are choosing to is ignorant to the way it works. There may be a few who choose it, I met a few but most would be happier being able to live on their own with a roof over their head (and not a subway roof)
Did you wear out your welcome during the first 5 years? If they let you couch surf 5 years, why not 7? Do you think people stopping help made you move faster to extricate yourself from the situation?
If it is so hard to get oneself out of homelessness, why should we welcome immigrants with no resources?
Quote: MaxPenWhy are ex-homeless people so proud of their past curcumstance and experience?
I think it has to do with the culture of homelessness itself. I've noticed in the homeless community that people with the most strife are revered the most. It's like a badge of honor to have been on the street the longest, survive the worst child abuse, have the worst addictions. It is some kind of screwed up world where sclerosis of the liver and hepatitis are awarded merit badges.
I find it the exact opposite. Most people who experience homelessness are just passing through. There is some life event and the outcome is to survive, adapt, overcome, and move on -- and it often serves to shape everything that follows. It's especially true for the late teens, early 20s crowd moving away from family without any other support. The chronic and persistent homeless are rarer and usually accompanied by some sort of mental illness.
Most people experience some heavy trauma, abuse, neglect, death of a parent or child, medical emergency, homelessness, et cetera. Most of us don't find pride in these events and would never wear it as a badge of honor. We may be proud about overcoming it, and how it helped build who we become, but in the vast majority of these cases there will never be any way for you to know anything about it
Quote: AxelWolfWhere else would he get any tranny action?
BillRyans question was aimed at Maxpen lol
Quote: darkozYou are leaving out that you WERE WAITING FOR THE BUS and with time to kill had conversations with the homeless living on the bus bench.
How much was that casino bonus you were after?
For awhile during construction, I did pay them to put up 2 traffic cones in a space for me. I only had one space in the garage and two vehicles.
Quote: TomGI find it the exact opposite. Most people who experience homelessness are just passing through. There is some life event and the outcome is to survive, adapt, overcome, and move on -- and it often serves to shape everything that follows. It's especially true for the late teens, early 20s crowd moving away from family without any other support. The chronic and persistent homeless are rarer and usually accompanied by some sort of mental illness.
Most people experience some heavy trauma, abuse, neglect, death of a parent or child, medical emergency, homelessness, et cetera. Most of us don't find pride in these events and would never wear it as a badge of honor. We may be proud about overcoming it, and how it helped build who we become, but in the vast majority of these cases there will never be any way for you to know anything about it
As it should be.
Quote: MaxPenDid you wear out your welcome during the first 5 years? If they let you couch surf 5 years, why not 7? Do you think people stopping help made you move faster to extricate yourself from the situation?
If it is so hard to get oneself out of homelessness, why should we welcome immigrants with no resources?
I most definitely wore out my welcome.
I dont know that it made me move faster or slower. Things just happened and there was no definite plan in advance.
There were a few career moves I tried which didnt work out before I wound up an AP.
I wont answer the immigrants question here. I am too tired of political bickering. But if you ask it in one of the political threads I may answer it there
Mod edit to fix format.
Quote: MaxPenIf it is so hard to get oneself out of homelessness, why should we welcome immigrants with no resources?
Because we value the hard work they are willing to do to overcome their hardships. There are some people who no longer value hard work, they tend to be the ones who are unwelcoming
Quote: TomGBecause we value the hard work they are willing to do to overcome their hardships. There are some people who no longer value hard work, they tend to be the ones who are unwelcoming
Nothing wrong with someone wanting to work hard and better themselves. Especially if they don't expect assistance.
Why would it take an immigrant with no resources less time to get off the streets of the US than a native?
Why do people think it is acceptable to help immigrants over natives?
Quote: MaxPenNothing wrong with someone wanting to work hard and better themselves. Especially if they don't expect assistance.
Why would it take an immigrant with no resources less time to get off the streets of the US than a native?
Again, most homelessness in the US are people who are passing through temporarily. So even if it takes an immigrant longer, we still value the hard work they do to better themselves. Is there any data about how long immigrants stay homeless compared to American born?
Quote: MaxPenWhy do people think it is acceptable to help immigrants over natives?
Because I have the personal freedom to help whoever I want and it doesn't matter at all what your ideas of acceptability are when it comes to what I want to do. It seems everything against immigrants almost always comes down to being against personal freedom
because you want to help immigrants that does not mean that you don't want to help natives
Quote: TomGIt seems everything against immigrants almost always comes down to being against personal freedom
I can agree with that. I wish all the people who understood that would stand against those in government that are infringing more and more on those freedoms.
Quote: MaxPenI wish all the people who understood that would stand against those in government that are infringing more and more on those freedoms.
you have lots and lots of freedoms. when Obama was Prez you could say and write nasty things about him as much as you like and as long as you didn't threaten violence no Governmental authority would bother you
many, many countries you couldn't do that - you would be in a heap of trouble
Quote: MaxPen
I've got a solution to this. Have everyone pay the in-state rate. Regardless of where they're from. Boom. Problem solved. This "tiered" pricing for a college education is nonsensical.
Quote: lilredroostereverybody who is not a Native American has an ancestor who was at one time an immigrant and it is very likely they were helped out by others in some way
Even "Native" Americans had ancestors who migrated here from other parts of the world.
What is homeless? I have one friend who all totaled, over the course of a 7 year time frame, accumulated appx. 5 of those years in tents. The rest of that time was in hotels or a few nights with friends. Never had a utility, and now in his mid 60's still has never owned a tv.
During that time, he had been written up in 4 national magazines as a world class big game guide. Never had "his own" running water until the age of 48 or so. Was he homeless?
In this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpAi70WWBlw , there are some interesting suppostions about homelessness. The author says Seattle doesn't have a homeless problem, what they have is a drug problem. No one is being arrested for small amounts of narcotics and low $ crime. It's changed Seattle. The street people are emboldened, knowing they won't be arrested for larceny or shooting up on a city street bench.
I knew another couple who spent up to 700. 00 per day, to keep the withdrawals away, while sleeping in their car. They were jovial, and would share some interesting ditty's with me. They were quite happy to find that one of the rest area's along I-5 had warm water in the restroom, where the other areas only had cold. They were happy to have discovered that rest area, it was all the buzz for those staying in vehicles [that ran].
One guy sleeps in a tent on the street in Seattle for a few months collecting any benefits he can, SJW's want to give him basic income and ebt. The other guy, doesn't want anything from .gov, I don't think he ever signed up for UI when out of work and people line up to pay for his services, although they both live in tents are they both homeless?
What about all the folks living in RV's in silicon valley, making 6 figures but basically sleeping along the road in old motorhomes? Are they homeless?
Quote: rxwineI actually do wonder if everyone I see on the street corner could not even get a dishwashing job.
A lot of homeless have health conditions that aren't conducive to getting jobs in the food industries. Restaurants may look the other way for work permits but not on health issues. The economic consequences are very effective self policing.
Quote: lilredroosteryou have lots and lots of freedoms. when Obama was Prez you could say and write nasty things about him as much as you like and as long as you didn't threaten violence no Governmental authority would bother you
many, many countries you couldn't do that - you would be in a heap of trouble
I think even in North Korea you could have written nasty things about Obama and not get in trouble.
Quote: AZDuffmanI think even in North Korea you could have written nasty things about Obama and not get in trouble.
true, and a little bit funny, but you knew I was referring to writing nasty things about the #1 of the country that you are living in and are a citizen of
Is that considered homeless?
The job doesn't get any benefits, but it's all tax free cash income.
I was going to the Mayo daily for awhile travelling North on Scottsdale road, turning left on Mayo drive. In that part of Phoenix the 4 lane city street as a divider at that intersection, maybe 10 ft. wide. Standing in that divider were people with signs begging for money. Some vets, some homeless etc. It was such a popular place to beg, that it seemed like the beggars almost took turns or shifts?
Across from beggars divider daily was a young man out in 100+ degree heat every day twirling a sign for a furniture store. Beggars in the middle, and a hard working young man on the side walk. I could never hit it {easily} that me as a passenger would be adjacent this guy, if I were I would have tried to give him a good tip, just for making me proud of humanity, if only for a few moments.
I would turn from the turning lane, left and head west I think on M boulevard, and everyday, within a 4 block distance from the beggars and the twirler were signs on multiple stores with "Help Wanted" signs out. IDK why the beggars didn't walk the 2-4 block distance and get a job, but probably the pay was better standing in the middle of Mayo blvd, begging for money and trying to look as pitiful as they could.
I doubt whether the guy standing there spinning that sign and bustin his ass thought very highly of the beggars?
Hard to put a price on pride.
And as I've posted previously, "A job provides a lot more than just a paycheck". rant off
Quote: petroglyphIs there room in this thread for a bitch? Ok, been meaning to get this out for awhile.
I was going to the Mayo daily for awhile travelling North on Scottsdale road, turning left on Mayo drive. In that part of Phoenix the 4 lane city street as a divider at that intersection, maybe 10 ft. wide. Standing in that divider were people with signs begging for money. Some vets, some homeless etc. It was such a popular place to beg, that it seemed like the beggars almost took turns or shifts?
Across from beggars divider daily was a young man out in 100+ degree heat every day twirling a sign for a furniture store. Beggars in the middle, and a hard working young man on the side walk. I could never hit it {easily} that me as a passenger would be adjacent this guy, if I were I would have tried to give him a good tip, just for making me proud of humanity, if only for a few moments.
I would turn from the turning lane, left and head west I think on M boulevard, and everyday, withing a 4 block distance from the beggars and the twirler were signs on multiple stores with "Help Wanted" signs out. IDK why the beggars didn't walk the 2-4 block distance and get a job, but probably the play was better standing in the middle of Mayo blvd, begging for money and trying to look as pitiful as they could.
I doubt whether the guy standing there spinning that sign and bustin his ass thought very highly of the beggers?
Hard to put a price on pride.
And as I've posted previously, "A job provides a lot more than just a paycheck". rant off
Lolololol
I suspect the beggars were looking down on the twirler.
He spends the same time they do in the damn heat for probably minimum wage while the beggars make as much as is handed to them - skies the limit.
As for walking down the block to get a job its never so easy as "help wanted sign" walk in, "ah first person arrived you got the job. Experience none, clothes 6 months soiled, home address the divider at the highway entrance-of course you are hired. I needed someone so bad who cares who I hire"
You're one of millions who come from an abusive or neglectful family. You're kinda messed up but hanging on, month to month.
One day the cops arrest you, throw you in jail for 2 months and steal your car. Why? Could be unpaid parking tickets. Could be they find your self-medication. Could be that there's a warrant on you for something you didn't even do.
A friend of mine was arrested for something they later dropped the charges for because it was clear as day he didn't do it. The fact that a warrant was ever issued was insane. Cops stole his car. He had to come up with 3k, or wait in jail for 2 months for his case to be addressed. Another $300 or so to get his car back. Lucky for him, he had the money.
But suppose you don't. You're evicted. You lose your job. You're turned loose broke with no car, no job and no place to live and a lot of inner demons. You don't have a family to turn to. Presto!
Seems like some of the forum thinks you should be rounded up and stuffed in a gas chamber or something. Luckily, for you, the general consensus in the U.S. is merely that you should be left to rot because it's all your fault and you deserve it. We'll happily spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on things like future incarceration, or having the police create more homeless, but it would be wrong to help you with a much smaller amount of money, because you deserve this.
It occurred to me that our view is surprisingly similar to something like the Indian caste system. What ever happens to you is your fault. To them, unfortunate people are blame worthy because of transgressions in past lives. We don't really think through exactly why it's your fault that your dad raped you, and why the fact that my dad put me through college makes me a good person. It's just easier to think that.
Bottom line is there are 100s of thousands of homeless. So it happens pretty often in the real world, regardless of how things should work in the idealized world of your imagination. It just seems to require some mental health problems and some run bad.
A fire burns your house down.
An earthquake. Yep, not only your house totalled vut your office building too. What do you do now. Sure there is disaster relief funds but just rebuilding can take months or years.
And thats if fema actually pulls thru for you. Years after Hurricane Katrina people were still living in tents, the township still devastated
Quote: MaxPen
It's pretty obvious that this a complete lie
https://www.unlv.edu/sites/default/files/page_files/27/ResidencyApplication.pdf
None of the options for declaring residency status have anything to do with national origin or immigration status. I would be willing to bet every penny I have that illegal immigrants are held to the exact same standards as everyone else when it comes to establishing residency for in-state tuition. I guess we could give them credit for not allowing such horrible things like facts and the truth influence them.
Quote: RigondeauxIt occurred to me that our view is surprisingly similar to something like the Indian caste system. What ever happens to you is your fault. To them, unfortunate people are blame worthy because of transgressions in past lives. We don't really think through exactly why it's your fault that your dad raped you, and why the fact that my dad put me through college makes me a good person. It's just easier to think that.
This illustrates almost all of the political disagreement that exists in the country now. The belief that certain people do not deserve any opportunity to contribute simply because of whatever situation they were born into.
Commies: the party members are superior because they are on the side of Right. People they don't like or want to deal with are "counter-revolutionary" and it's fine to just kill them.
Fascists: Same as commies. A slightly different fairy tale to justify it.
Religious kooks: Basically the same thing. You have chosen to defy the will of Allah. Or, Jesus has predetermined you as an undesirable. WE. I am God's side and he says I should live in a palace.
Fuedal: God has ordained that I should be a king or lord, and that I should get half the crops you grow and bang your wife. Are you saying GOD is wrong? Sounds like witch talk to me.
It's sort of unusual to move away from some version of this. We did for a while. But political and economic elites are doing very well and convincing us that they were chosen by God, or that their good fortune is evidence of merit or whatever fairy tale they think we will swallow, and that they should get half our crops and bang our wives. If anything bad happens to us, it proves that we are bad people who deserve to suffer and maybe we should be locked up in a cage owned by a company that funded their campaign, or that they have shares in.
Quote: TomGThis illustrates almost all of the political disagreement that exists in the country now. The belief that certain people do not deserve any opportunity to contribute simply because of whatever situation they were born into.
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness...
Your circumstances should not deny you any of those rights.
I can read.Quote: darkozBillRyans question was aimed at Maxpen lol
Quote: petroglyphHow about some empathy for the guy doing the work ?
Thats exactly what they would be doing.
Wow, that guy has to stand all day carrying a sign in the heat. We dont like it so he must feel terrible. What a sucker for doing it for minimum wage while we make as much as we can.
Empathy while looking down at his stupidity
BTW, there is MORE likelihood that the sign twirler is receiving government benefits than the homeless are. At minimum wage he most likely qualifies for added assistance. It is an incorrect assumption of the right that receiving public assistance means you sit home all day watching telly. Many people work and receive benefits prorated to their income because they still live under the poverty line because our federal minimum wage has not caught up with inflation.
Meanwhile the homeless have no bills besides food for the most part and quite possibly no domicile address which is required and are NOT the ones receiving benefits (hence why they are begging for donations)
As far as getting a job, it must be VERY difficult. I am betting my lawn service company requires an applicant to put down an address, and I'd also bet that 'homeless' is a disqualifier.
Perhaps I am naive on this subject, but I thought that if you presented yourself to your local authority, New York City as an example, and stated you were homeless and jobless and broke, that you would qualify for public assistance which includes money for food and housing? Not lobster and the Ritz-Carlton, but enough to not starve or freeze?
Quote: MaxPenI spent quite a bit of time talking to homeless people when I lived downtown. There was a couple who lived on a bus bench across the street from my building that I would talk to atleast once every other day for extended periods of time.
Talk about what? (sorry if this already asked and answered)
Seems like some are willing to pay big bucks to act homeless for a week in the desert and then go back to their real life.
Quote: darkozLolololol
I suspect the beggars were looking down on the twirler.
He spends the same time they do in the damn heat for probably minimum wage while the beggars make as much as is handed to them - skies the limit.
Those guys were getting a couple bucks over MW when I lived in AZ. Usually it is a weekend side hustle. Saw one thing on it on TV or something and they got a $0.50 bump each time they learned a new "trick" like twirling it. Still shows you live in a great country when you can get paid for that.
Quote:As for walking down the block to get a job its never so easy as "help wanted sign" walk in, "ah first person arrived you got the job. Experience none, clothes 6 months soiled, home address the divider at the highway entrance-of course you are hired. I needed someone so bad who cares who I hire"
In AZ the homeless pissed me off. Economy was booming 2005 to late 2007, even then unemployment was low until the crash. If you wanted to work, you could work. Yet bums all over the place. One looked to be an illegal stood outside Burger King near daily begging for money. Asked me for $1 once, I told him, "all I have is $100s."
Clint Eastwood talked about the Great Depression on some interview once, Barbara Walters maybe. He said how different it was then. Said they had to ask for food, but that you offered labor first. I remember the example that he said he would offer to sweep someone's driveway for a sandwich. This bum outside BK could have offered to sweep out the lot, or anything else. But he was there all the time. I know it was for months because I had lunch there weekly.
At some other place I am eating and minding my own business and some guy asks me to buy him a drink like I had. I never went back to that place again. Is it just me or is this kind of begging more common west of the Rockies?
