Free Julian Assange

Quote: TigerWu

Quote: petroglyph

Tulsi Gabbard
✔
@TulsiGabbard
The arrest of #JulianAssange is meant to send a message to all Americans and journalists: be quiet, behave, toe the line. Or you will pay the price.

So, don't break any laws? Sure, I have no problem with that...

I got $10 that says that if Assange is convicted of a crime in the U.S. court system, he will be pardoned by Trump (or whoever is President) by inauguration day, 2021.

Any takers?

To clarify, I will bet the ten dollars that Assange is not pardoned by inauguration 2021, for any reason, including death or ongoing trial. For that distinction, I will give you 1.5 to 1 odds, up to twenty dollars?

Quote: petroglyph

Quote: TigerWu

Quote: petroglyph

Tulsi Gabbard
✔
@TulsiGabbard
The arrest of #JulianAssange is meant to send a message to all Americans and journalists: be quiet, behave, toe the line. Or you will pay the price.

So, don't break any laws? Sure, I have no problem with that...

I got $10 that says that if Assange is convicted of a crime in the U.S. court system, he will be pardoned by Trump (or whoever is President) by inauguration day, 2021.

Any takers?

To clarify, I will bet the ten dollars that Assange is not pardoned by inauguration 2021, for any reason, including death or ongoing trial. For that distinction, I will give you 1.5 to 1 odds, up to twenty dollars?

I accept these terms.

Quote: TigerWu

Quote: petroglyph

Quote: TigerWu

Quote: petroglyph

Tulsi Gabbard
✔
@TulsiGabbard
The arrest of #JulianAssange is meant to send a message to all Americans and journalists: be quiet, behave, toe the line. Or you will pay the price.

So, don't break any laws? Sure, I have no problem with that...

I got $10 that says that if Assange is convicted of a crime in the U.S. court system, he will be pardoned by Trump (or whoever is President) by inauguration day, 2021.

Any takers?

To clarify, I will bet the ten dollars that Assange is not pardoned by inauguration 2021, for any reason, including death or ongoing trial. For that distinction, I will give you 1.5 to 1 odds, up to twenty dollars?

I accept these terms.

For what amount?

Quote: petroglyph

Quote: TigerWu

Quote: petroglyph

Quote: TigerWu

Quote: petroglyph

Tulsi Gabbard
✔
@TulsiGabbard
The arrest of #JulianAssange is meant to send a message to all Americans and journalists: be quiet, behave, toe the line. Or you will pay the price.

So, don't break any laws? Sure, I have no problem with that...

I got $10 that says that if Assange is convicted of a crime in the U.S. court system, he will be pardoned by Trump (or whoever is President) by inauguration day, 2021.

Any takers?

To clarify, I will bet the ten dollars that Assange is not pardoned by inauguration 2021, for any reason, including death or ongoing trial. For that distinction, I will give you 1.5 to 1 odds, up to twenty dollars?

I accept these terms.

For what amount?

Oh, sorry, just the $10.

Quote: TigerWu

Quote: petroglyph

Quote: TigerWu

Quote: petroglyph

Quote: TigerWu

Quote: petroglyph

Tulsi Gabbard
✔
@TulsiGabbard
The arrest of #JulianAssange is meant to send a message to all Americans and journalists: be quiet, behave, toe the line. Or you will pay the price.

So, don't break any laws? Sure, I have no problem with that...

I got $10 that says that if Assange is convicted of a crime in the U.S. court system, he will be pardoned by Trump (or whoever is President) by inauguration day, 2021.

Any takers?

To clarify, I will bet the ten dollars that Assange is not pardoned by inauguration 2021, for any reason, including death or ongoing trial. For that distinction, I will give you 1.5 to 1 odds, up to twenty dollars?

I accept these terms.

For what amount?

Oh, sorry, just the $10.

I believe we have a bet.

Some parts NSFW. https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/debunking-all-the-assange-smears-a549fd677cac

Quote: RonC

I read the indictment. If he was involved in stealing documents and braking into our computer systems, he should be prosecuted fully. Not just for him, but every time it happens. Stealing files is not a "Freedom of the Press" issue.

Meh. It's a weird spot because the nature of government and authority has changed so much, as we've moved away from being a functioning liberal democratic republic.

Basically, whenever they are up to no good it seems like they just say it's "classified." So when Obama making trade agreements that harm most Americans, that goes in the same bucket as critical military information during the cold war. Remember when Bush was creating energy policy with his masters in the oil companies and they just declared that everything was a state secret? Exxon has a right to know how our energy policy is made (to be the ones making it in fact) but you do not.

It's much like how your right to peaceably assemble now means you assembling inside of a fenced in area 4 miles from the thing you are protesting. Your right against unlawful search and seizure means... well it just flat out doesn't exist. The police can steal your money and then you have to prove your not a drug dealer.

Why should we go along with it?

Everything Manning and Assange revealed, to my limited knowledge, seems to be stuff we have a right to know, regardless of the government's assertion that we don't. We have a right to know when the gov is trampling our rights, spying on us, committing crimes, etc.

When Assange starts publishing details of our nuclear defense strategy or something like that, give me a call. Until then, he's fighting the good fight IMO.

There is 500k private contractors with security clearances. Our spec ops guys are being replaced with Blackwater and other mercenary contractors, that never have to reveal a thing they are doing under FOIA requests. So we just have to take the authority's word for it, that they are acting in our best interests, whatever that is?

I seldom watch Lee Camps comedic news, but happened across his show tonight and it was the best performance I have ever seen him do, revealing what Assange did, and his punishment for it. We would never ever know about so many things.
Just a few minutes had me hooked for ten. https://www.rt.com/shows/redacted-tonight-summary/457058-wikileaks-whistleblowers-assange-manning/

Transparency is important. Wondering if this is one of those ends justifies the means situations. Too many people with too many secrets and too much power. A little exposure sometimes is the only means of keeping checks on things.

Quote: Rigondeaux

Meh. It's a weird spot because the nature of government and authority has changed so much, as we've moved away from being a functioning liberal democratic republic.

Here in the United States we live in a republic. In fact the words "democracy" or "democratic" are found nowhere in our Constitution, because we're not a democracy.

They put Manning back in prison, this time for not talking. https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/04/22/i-will-not-give-appeals-court-rejects-chelsea-mannings-bid-release

Think of the horror that Manning's been through. The torture, the stress. IDK if Manning thought he wouldn't get caught, but had to think there was a good possibility. So divulging the thousands of files of US crimes had to be worth the chance of all that has happened, happening. None of these guys did it for the money, they did it because they believed us knowing was more important than the price they would have to pay.

Snowden knew full well he was exposed, he knew his life was forever changed and all he had was over. He had a great life in Hawaii and a relationship, and good pay. He felt it was more important that we all knew our government is violating all of our constitutional rights daily. And recording it, it's all there if anyone wants to look.

We wouldn't know about the killing and the spying and the blacksites around the world where we torture people.

Without Assange, we wouldn't know. The mainstream media doesn't do news anymore. Partially because they can't. The corporations won't let them and they can't compete with the internet. It's a business, they have to make bank to collect their pay. Corporations are not going to pay the Maddow's to expose them.

Quote: bobbartop

Here in the United States we live in a republic. In fact the words "democracy" or "democratic" are found nowhere in our Constitution, because we're not a democracy.

We're not a direct democracy but we've always elected representation.

Being a republic doesn't affect that one way or another.

Quote: Rigondeaux

We're not a direct democracy but we've always elected representation.

Being a republic doesn't affect that one way or another.

The US is currently a Representative Democracy. Thank goodness Trump was elected as it saved the US from tyranny. FOR NOW. The beginning of the end for Rome was Democracy.

Quote: MaxPen

The US is currently a Representative Democracy. Thank goodness Trump was elected as it saved the US from tyranny.

Whose tyranny?

Quote: MaxPen

The US is currently a Representative Democracy. Thank goodness Trump was elected as it saved the US from tyranny. FOR NOW. The beginning of the end for Rome was Democracy.

I'm going to the casino, I don't have time now to list the hundreds of quotes by our Founders warning against democracy and stating clearly that we are a republic, not a democracy. Not only is the word democracy not mentioned ANYWHERE in the federal constitution but not in any state constitution either. I learned this in 8th grade, a LONG time ago. We pledge allegiance to the REPUBLIC for which it stands, not the democracy. Democracy is a horrible form of government. And you are correct, democracy was the beginning of the end for Rome.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for dinner.

Btw, I know I may have messed up the quotes, but I'm out the door. Video poker is calling me. Later dudes. God bless America.

Res publica

Quote: Rigondeaux

We're not a direct democracy but we've always elected representation.

We didn't elect the Senate. We still don't elect the President.

Madison:

"Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths"

There is a story, often told, that upon exiting the Constitutional Convention Benjamin Franklin was approached by a group of citizens asking what sort of government the delegates had created. His answer was: "A republic, if you can keep it."

Quote: bobbartop

There is a story, often told, that upon exiting the Constitutional Convention Benjamin Franklin was approached by a group of citizens asking what sort of government the delegates had created. His answer was: "A republic, if you can keep it."

There's another one about how democracy is the worst form of government ever created, except for all the rest of them.

It says..."a more perfect union"... not a perfect one. So we keep stumbling along. But what we have of democracy is precious and needs protection.

True.
It is 'more perfect' and it is not 'happiness' but the pursuit of happiness.
If our newspapers publish pablum of what use is redress of grievances going to be?
Assange made certain we didn't have to swallow PR handouts, its just that wiileaks was such a massive data dump that forgeries were numerous. Same with that dummy corporations in tax havens stuff. It contained a document dated two years before the typeface was invented.

Quote: bobbartop

I'm going to the casino, I don't have time now to list the hundreds of quotes by our Founders warning against democracy and stating clearly that we are a republic, not a democracy. Not only is the word democracy not mentioned ANYWHERE in the federal constitution but not in any state constitution either. I learned this in 8th grade, a LONG time ago. We pledge allegiance to the REPUBLIC for which it stands, not the democracy. Democracy is a horrible form of government. And you are correct, democracy was the beginning of the end for Rome.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for dinner.

Btw, I know I may have messed up the quotes, but I'm out the door. Video poker is calling me. Later dudes. God bless America.

Res publica

You should read the wiki, or some other source explaining the topic.

Basically, "America is a republic, not a democracy" is a "fun fact" type thing that some people like, but it doesn't mean anything. I don't know where it comes from. It's like saying an 18 wheeler is a truck, not a vehicle.

We have, and have always had, elected representation. We often call this a democracy. Nobody means "direct, unrestrained democracy" when they say this. Like where every single issue is decided by popular vote, and we have no guaranteed rights.

Here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_republic

A democratic republic is a form of government operating on principles adopted from a republic and a democracy. Rather than being a cross between two entirely separate systems, democratic republics may function on principles shared by both republics and democracies.

Common definitions of the terms democracy and republic often feature overlapping concerns, suggesting that many democracies function as republics, and many republics operate on democratic principles, as shown by these definitions from the Oxford English Dictionary:

Republic: "A state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives..."[1]
Democracy: "A system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives."[2]
Eugene Volokh of the UCLA School of Law notes that the United States exemplifies the varied nature of a constitutional republic—a country where some decisions (often local) are made by direct democratic processes, while others (often federal) are made by democratically elected representatives.[3] As with many large systems, US governance is incompletely described by any single term. It also employs the concept, for instance, of a constitutional democracy in which a court system is involved in matters of jurisprudence.[3]

As with other democracies, not all persons in a democratic republic are necessarily citizens, and not all citizens are necessarily entitled to vote.[4] Suffrage is commonly restricted by criteria such as voting age.[5]

Quote: beachbumbabs

There's another one about how democracy is the worst form of government ever created, except for all the rest of them.

It says..."a more perfect union"... not a perfect one. So we keep stumbling along. But what we have of democracy is precious and needs protection.

Democracy sucks, that's why we're not one. We're a republic. Big difference. This is basic Junior High School stuff, even though so many people have been mislead to believe that we are a democracy and/or that democracy is something to strive for. It's rule by the majority, or put another way, mob rule. SUCKS.

As I said earlier, the word "democracy" cannot be found anywhere in the Constitution, or any of the state constitutions, or any of our founding documents. It even says,

"SECTION 4. The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a republican form of government,"

Quote: Rigondeaux

You should read the wiki, or some other source explaining the topic.

You should read the Federalist Papers. Wiki is full of sh*t.

And by the way, the Founders did not include the word "democracy" anywhere in the Constitution or our founding documents, not because they forgot, or because they didn't understand, or didn't know what a democracy was, rather it was because they DID understand exactly what democracy means, and that's why they did NOT call us a democracy. Our Founders were very intelligent and well-studied in history and they knew exactly what they were doing. It's a good thing they didn't have Wiki or the internet to get them confused.

I understand that we have a representative form of government. But they are elected to represent people on the issues, given the time, staff, and resources to do it with our tax dollars, and expected to address professionally the values of those who sent them to DC.

That is where the Republic has failed. They do not represent their constituents any more.

But direct democracy doesn't work well, either.

Bab's Churchill said something like that. Maybe he was borrowing it though.

Bartop, I don't know what else to say. I've spent years believing pearls of common wisdom that were false. "Women make 70 cents on the dollar for the same work." "The rule of thumb meant you had to beat your wife with a stick narrower than your thumb." "Nougat was invented by the Nazis."

"We live in a republic, not a democracy" is just another one of these clever tidbits that is either wrong or meaningless.

When presented with facts that proved these things were wrong, I stopped repeating them, rather than just asserting that all the resources providing facts were wrong. But it's not mandatory. Thankfully we live in a democratic republic!

There brobably has been a shift in ussage. The FF were writing a long time ago in a different context when functioning monarchies were normal and democracy as we know it now was pretty rare. So "republic" was a very important distinction from a monarchy.

They read guys like Plato and abosulte, direct democracy might have been on the intellectual table in a way that it is not today so they followed Plato in being concerned about Democracy (though none of us would want to live in Plato's ideal states). Certainly they wanted democracy to be contained, and it is. Of course, they initially favored less democracy than we have now, but that's to be expected. But they absolutely did favor more democracy than there had been before. In any case, they wanted a republic with limited democracy and that's what they went with.

Nonetheless, to say that the U.S. is not a democratic republic is just absurd. We actually DO have some direct democracy on referendums, and we elect many gov officials, directly or indirectly. There are elections all the time and it is one of the core features of the republic. BUT, we cannot just vote for anything. In principle, we can't vote to restrict freedom of the press, disolve the supreme court or establish a state religion. Thus, it is a democratic republic, not an absolute democracy. We are protected against some of the bad outcomes the FFs were worried about in an absolute democracy.

(Whether the word democracy appears in the Constitution or not is totally irrelevant)

Quote: beachbumbabs

That is where the Republic has failed. They do not represent their constituents any more.

Only one office was supposed to be by popular vote, the House. And it works as well as the electorate is educated. They run every two years which essentially is built-in term limits. The people can vote him out quickly if they don't like how he votes. Or they can keep him if they do. The Founders argued forever on this and what was settled on works pretty damn well. I know everything my Congressman votes on. I pay attention. If one doesn't pay attention, to the House, then one will get what one deserves. Don't pay attention, and they might destroy our republic by turning it into a democracy. Voters used to have to be qualified.

Quote: Rigondeaux

Bartop, I don't know what else to say.

Me neither. Too much Wikipedia, not enough Federalist Papers.

Quote: Rigondeaux

Thus, it is a democratic republic,

Pretty sure that's what they call North Korea. Look it up. Look it up on Wiki.

Anti free press advocates try to fake smear Julian with poop story. https://www.mintpressnews.com/assange-poop-smear-concocted-cover-ecuadors-4-2-b-imf-loan/257554/

Note loan to Ecuador is closer to ten billion than 4.

Wow, he's only 47 years old.

Holing up in that embassy for seven years was not kind to him. Looks like he's on the wrong side of 60.

Weird, this thread disappeared? I wish the Assange threads were consolidated, but wouldn't envy anyone having to do all that.

Did you know Eric Prince's [Blackwater, Xe, FSG] sister is billionaire Education Secretary Betsy DeVos ? Coincidence, no worry's.

One of the problems with silencing free press is we will never know what wars we are fighting and how much they cost.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-04-28/its-2019-guess-whos-back-iraq

Quote: petroglyph

Weird, this thread disappeared? I wish the Assange threads were consolidated, but wouldn't envy anyone having to do all that.

Did you know Eric Prince's [Blackwater, Xe, FSG] sister is billionaire Education Secretary Betsy DeVos ? Coincidence, no worry's.

One of the problems with silencing free press is we will never know what wars we are fighting and how much they cost.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-04-28/its-2019-guess-whos-back-iraq

Not a coincidence, sorry. They're both awful.

Quote: petroglyph

Quote: TigerWu

Quote: petroglyph

Quote: TigerWu

Quote: petroglyph

Quote: TigerWu

Quote: petroglyph

Tulsi Gabbard
✔
@TulsiGabbard
The arrest of #JulianAssange is meant to send a message to all Americans and journalists: be quiet, behave, toe the line. Or you will pay the price.

So, don't break any laws? Sure, I have no problem with that...

I got $10 that says that if Assange is convicted of a crime in the U.S. court system, he will be pardoned by Trump (or whoever is President) by inauguration day, 2021.

Any takers?

To clarify, I will bet the ten dollars that Assange is not pardoned by inauguration 2021, for any reason, including death or ongoing trial. For that distinction, I will give you 1.5 to 1 odds, up to twenty dollars?

I accept these terms.

For what amount?

Oh, sorry, just the $10.

I believe we have a bet.

I believe I won this bet, what say you?

I tried to PM Tigerwu a reminder, but he doesn't accept PMs.
He last logged in here in April.