First time in Vegas, advice please.

Hi forum,

I am an avid poker player from England, looking forward to my first trip to Vegas this Christmas.
I arrive on 20th December for 9 nights, staying at Planet Hollywood.
Can you tell me how busy the place is likely to be?
What the weather is going to be like?
Where I should be eating?

I have about £4000 to last me the trip (about $6500).
I like blackjack, three card poker, and regular poker.
I have never played craps.
What games should I be playing? what stakes?
How do I extract the most value for comps?
Anything else that would help make this trip amazing is greatly received.

Quote: WizardofEngland

How do I extract the most value for comps?

In most casinos, comp money is applied before taxes are added. Therefore, use comps to pay for your room. Since taxes are only collected on the cash balance, and hotel taxes are higher than any other tax, you're getting the best value using them to pay for the room.

If you use comps to pay for meals, they too will reduce the tax, but you can NOT use them to pay for the tip. Tips must be paid by cash. Instead, charge the entire bill, including tips (sigh, and tax), to your room. Then, when you check out, pay the entire bill with comps. This assumes you'll your comps will be more than your room bill. If not, then it doesn't matter.

If you can accurately estimate your comps (a VERY hard thing to do), and you think you're getting slightly more than the total room bill, use that excess at a restaurant to reduce the tax, and pay the tip in cash. But don't use too much, or you'll screw yourself on the hotel tax.

Do I get tax free winnings? In the UK gambling is 100% tax free. Do I need to fill out a form for this?

I know nothing about tax law regarding UK citizens visiting the USA. Sorry.

As to various Poker Rooms there are several sites that rank poker rooms by their amenities, their comp rates, and the presumed vulnerability of the people who tend to play there.

What games should you play? Games that you know how to play! Study craps while you are there. Take the free craps lessons the various casinos offer usually around 11:00am or Noon.

There is an informally named and informally defined period in Vegas known as Dead Week. Its the week just prior to the week that contains Christmas. Historically Vegas is less crowded during Dead Week. However, it is by no means "dead"... just less crowded than it might otherwise be.

Charge as much to your room as you can: Everything you can charge to the room has the potential to get comped. It may not actually get comped but if its on the Room Charge it has the potential for being comped.

Good luck.

Quote: WizardofEngland

Do I get tax free winnings? In the UK gambling is 100% tax free. Do I need to fill out a form for this?

I was referring to sales tax, which can't be avoided by any means other than paying with comps.

Income taxes are not an issue unless you win a jackpot (I think $1,200). And then, it's just a form. For Americans, it's no big deal, because estimated gambling losses can be deducted from those documented small wins. Of course, you're supposed to include estimated wins too, but that's another story.

If it's a LARGE jackpot, they may withhold a portion for the tax. I don't know what percent, or what the threshold is.

In both cases, we have to present a Social Security card and other ID before collecting the win.

Cashing in a large amount of chips may present the same problem. I wouldn't know. I've never been lucky enough to hit that limit.


I don't know how foreigners deal with it, other than hoping the wins come in small enough chunks to not be an issue.

Withholding tax is applied whether you supply them with an SSN or not. Therefore, if you are the citizen of another country, you still get a form with taxes withheld on them. The rate for residents is 25 percent or 28 percent if a TIN is not supplied or under certain conditions. For non-resident aliens, a W2-G is not issued, but a 1042-S is with a withholding rate of 30 percent but on a different subset of transactions.

Quote: IRS Publication 515

Gambling winnings (Income Code 28). In general, nonresident aliens are subject to NRA withholding at 30% on the gross proceeds from gambling won in the United States if that income is not effectively connected with a U.S. trade or business and is not exempted by treaty. The tax withheld and winnings are reportable on Forms 1042 and 1042-S.

No tax is imposed on nonbusiness gambling income a nonresident alien wins playing blackjack, baccarat, craps, roulette, or big-6 wheel in the United States. A Form W-8BEN is not required to obtain the exemption from withholding, but a Form W-8BEN may be required for purposes of Form 1099 reporting and backup withholding. Gambling income that is not subject to NRA withholding is not subject to reporting on Form 1042-S.

Nonresident aliens are taxed at graduated rates on net gambling income won in the U.S. that is effectively connected with a U.S. trade or business.

If you like 3 Card Poker, try Crazy 4 Poker skipping the Queens Up bet; the Queens Up looks good, but it will chew up your bankroll mighty fast. Element of risk on the basic game is only 1.09% (according to WoO), making it a pretty good play for a mindless carnival game. The Queens Up pay table everywhere I went in Vegas is the worst one, 40/30/7/4/3/2/1, 6.78% house advantage. Ouch. But you still have the Super Ante bet (required as part of the basic game) to give you that shot at The Big Hand.

At 3 Card, there is a new bet, the best 5 card hand from yours and the dealer's hand together. I'd never seen this, and thought about it for a few seconds, then skipped it, figuring that it would be a bad bet, and it is; house edge of 15.28%! That is really, really bad, even for a carnival game. All the Pairs Plus pay tables at 3 Card are the worst one, 40/30/6/3/1, 7.28% house edge.

I've never gotten a solid answer on how planet hollywood rates table games for comps. At MGM properties, I don't think they even rate you under $25.


I generally go between a few different table limits. Playing $5 at times and playing $25+ at times and everything in between. I also like to go around to all the different casinos. If you are staying at Casino A, then gambling at Casino B won't get you comps at Casino A. So to take off things like your room charge, I'd suggest doing any of the bigger betting at planet hollywood.

Don't chase comps, but if your normal play give you comps then try and gamble the most at the hotel you are staying at.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I don't know how foreigners deal with it, other than hoping the wins come in small enough chunks to not be an issue.

UK and the US have a reciprocal tax agreement, and UK tax law does not tax gambling winnings. If it ever does come up, you'll need to do the magic tax forms and I believe x% will be withheld, but you can claim the balance on your return. Canada has much the same issue, and there's firms who advertise to help you get your taxed winnings, but I believe the process is not too hard to complete yourself. It's never happened to me, sadly.

I am not an international tax lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.

Quote: Mosca

At 3 Card, there is a new bet, the best 5 card hand from yours and the dealer's hand together. I'd never seen this, and thought about it for a few seconds, then skipped it, figuring that it would be a bad bet, and it is; house edge of 15.28%! That is really, really bad, even for a carnival game. All the Pairs Plus pay tables at 3 Card are the worst one, 40/30/6/3/1, 7.28% house edge.

That would be the six card bonus bet found at Harrah's properties, including Bill's. I didn't know anything about it, but I figured you can't go wrong by assuming side bets are sucker bets. Besides it pays even if you fold the ante/play portion, which just sets off further alarm bells in my mind. As it happened I was right on all counts.

Quote: Nareed

That would be the six card bonus bet found at Harrah's properties, including Bill's. I didn't know anything about it, but I figured you can't go wrong by assuming side bets are sucker bets. Besides it pays even if you fold the ante/play portion, which just sets off further alarm bells in my mind. As it happened I was right on all counts.

Most players who were playing it were putting up a buck or a nickel. I've watched that buck grind away bankrolls at Caribbean and Let it Ride. I don't mind the carnival games, but you gotta be careful.

Average daily temperatures for December (in Fahrenheit).

http://www.weather.com/weather/monthly/USNV0049?month=1

Enjoy playing BJ at the "Passion Pit" at PH :-P

Thank you all for the advice so far.
Do you think $6500 is enough to have a good time betting $25 on blackjack? or the pass line in craps?

Or should I just stick to $5 and not be concerned about comps?

I am also looking for $50-80 tourneys, but the PH has a massive $20 admin fee. Any suggestions?

Quote: WizardofEngland

Thank you all for the advice so far.
Do you think $6500 is enough to have a good time betting $25 on blackjack? or the pass line in craps?

Or should I just stick to $5 and not be concerned about comps?

I am also looking for $50-80 tourneys, but the PH has a massive $20 admin fee. Any suggestions?

I think it depends on how much you plan on playing BJ versus doing other things. $6500 will get you through many many hours of $25 BJ, but maybe not 8+ hours/day for your whole trip. You *should* only lose about $90/day(.65%*70hands/hour*8hours/day*$25/hand), but with some seriously high variance (which could, of course, make you a winner as well). On the flip side, that much play at $5-$20/hand will probably get you at least a little bit in comps if you choose the lower stakes.

As for the poker, there is a minimum admin fee of about $15-$20 that you'll have a hard time getting under. If that's too much of a proportion of the buyin for you to stomach (and I feel your pain there), then you could consider jumping to the next level of tourney (usually $100-$150) which will have approximately the same admin fee as the $60 games. The more expensive tourneys usually move slower and have more entrants, so on average you really will get more entertainment for your $$ there.

Quote: WizardofEngland

Thank you all for the advice so far.
Do you think $6500 is enough to have a good time betting $25 on blackjack? or the pass line in craps?

Or should I just stick to $5 and not be concerned about comps?

I am also looking for $50-80 tourneys, but the PH has a massive $20 admin fee. Any suggestions?

This is the line that got me: "I have about £4000 to last me the trip (about $6500)."

Walk in expecting to lose and you will probably lose. You should have said "I'm taking about $6500 with me and when I win $2000 I'm quitting for the trip."

Quote: JerryLogan

This is the line that got me: "I have about £4000 to last me the trip (about $6500)."

Walk in expecting to lose and you will probably lose. You should have said "I'm taking about $6500 with me and when I win $2000 I'm quitting for the trip."

Im not walking in expecting to lose, I just know that every bet I make has a negative exception. If I bet my last $25 on the last day of my trip and I have done everything, and ate and drank well, I will leave vegas a happy man. the wizard said 90% of people walk away losers, but 95% leave happy. I'm buying the experience, Im not attempting to break vegas. Some free meals, and maybe a good upgrade for the last night (or few nights) and I will be back.

Quote: WizardofEngland

Thank you all for the advice so far.
Do you think $6500 is enough to have a good time betting $25 on blackjack? or the pass line in craps?

Yes. But...

Quote:

Or should I just stick to $5 and not be concerned about comps?

... you shouldn't increase your bet just to get comps. You can have as much fun betting $10 on those games $25. $5 in the P-Ho may be hard to find. The value of comps is always less than your expected loss. if you want that meal in the restaurant, play at $10 and then go buy it yourself.

Quote:

I am also looking for $50-80 tourneys, but the PH has a massive $20 admin fee. Any suggestions?

The $60-80 tournaments are on the edge of crap shoot level. Pay the extra and have the deeper stacked tournaments (Caesars did some good $125-$150 games). It's two extra Blackjack bets... it should last longer than two hands of black jack...

Quote: thecesspit

Yes. But...



... you shouldn't increase your bet just to get comps. You can have as much fun betting $10 on those games $25. $5 in the P-Ho may be hard to find. The value of comps is always less than your expected loss. if you want that meal in the restaurant, play at $10 and then go buy it yourself.



The $60-80 tournaments are on the edge of crap shoot level. Pay the extra and have the deeper stacked tournaments (Caesars did some good $125-$150 games). It's two extra Blackjack bets... it should last longer than two hands of black jack...

Thats some great advice. Thanks very much

Quote: WizardofEngland

Do I get tax free winnings? In the UK gambling is 100% tax free. Do I need to fill out a form for this?

In terms of comps, which the prior poster was referring to, SALES tax (like your VAT) isn't paid on comps. So a $20 meal, that would have an additional, say, $2 in tax added to it if it was paid for in cash, would only cost $20 in "comp dollars". That's why you come out slightly better using comps to pay for rooms, meals, etc. whenever possible, rather than paying for them in cash.

Quote: WizardofEngland

Thank you all for the advice so far.
Do you think $6500 is enough to have a good time betting $25 on blackjack? or the pass line in craps?

Or should I just stick to $5 and not be concerned about comps?

I am also looking for $50-80 tourneys, but the PH has a massive $20 admin fee. Any suggestions?

First this is an extremely old list. http://www.allvegaspoker.com/tournaments.php However it should give you an idea of what casinos have games in the range you are looking for. Simply google the casino and on the casinos web page will be listed the active tournaments. I was looking for some myself and found most in that price range to have a 20-25% admin fee.


Two strategies I would consider on table limits.

1) Play at lower limits for the first few days. If you are doing ok, then at that time you can decide if you want to move up to higher limits. Again don't do so solely for comps, but because you actually want to risk that much betting.

2) Play for 2-3 hours at $25 tables each day and then decide what to do for the rest of the day. If you are holding your own, you can continue on those tables, otherwise head to lower limits. I will say you don't need to start the day at $25s either. Nothing stopping you from playing $5 all day long and then the last 2 hours you trying some higher limits.

Both of those assume you are able to actually stick to what you decide. I would guess this is in the minority for anyone that head to vegas. The thing you want to avoid is thinking of ways on how to win the money back. That is the point in which you give up on $5 games completely and only play $25 games because you want that quick return.



A few tips that I try and follow anytime I'm out there.

1) Set a daily limit. It is much easier to tell yourself to quit gambling for the day when you see your wallet is empty. You have tomorrow to look forward to and a brand new daily limit.
2) Set a loss limit on a table. For me this is whatever I buy in. The only thing I'm trying to prevent here is that I buy in 3 times for $200, I'm sitting there with $500 and I start betting a lot more than I should simply because I have $500 sitting in front of me. Never buying in more than once means I never have that much out there unless I'm up quite a bit.
3) Set a Win Limit. You can get up go to the cashier and sit right back down at another table. Most people will increase their bet size when they are winning. Leaving and resetting your chip stack avoids this. Obviously there may be reasons in poker where this is actually a bad thing to do. :)
4) Break up your play. Simply walking from table to table or casino to casino may mean you are playing 25-30% fewer hands.

By no means am I suggesting they are for everyone. I even modify these when I'm going along with friends and we all sit at the same table. Really I think the best rule for anyone that wants to make their money last is to break up their play. You will never notice that you only played blackjack for 6 hours combined instead of 10 hours strait at one table. This alone means you bet half as much money.


For me it is all about the little things. Getting up from a table knowing I just took $100 of the casino's money is a good feeling. I know in the end they will get their money. I just want to win a few battles along the way. I also don't want to get up from a table thinking I should have left 2 hours ago. :) If you take the wins when you get them, you should have a reasonable chance of coming back with at least some money.

Quote: soulhunt79

For me it is all about the little things. Getting up from a table knowing I just took $100 of the casino's money is a good feeling. I know in the end they will get their money. I just want to win a few battles along the way. I also don't want to get up from a table thinking I should have left 2 hours ago. :) If you take the wins when you get them, you should have a reasonable chance of coming back with at least some money.

Taking $10 from Steve Wynn's casino and losing it in the New Frontier felt much better than doing it in reverse the next day, I can tell you :) But yep, walking out the door with a few dollars extra is a nice feeling and a nice buzz for the stroll down the strip (ride to the next off-strip property).

Course, being down $100 from shitty cards in a shitty casino with shitty staff is the opposite (Excalibur and the Luxor back to back, last year), but that's the breaks and a walk to the bar in NYNY and a good craft beer cured that malaise.

Quote: WizardofEngland

Thank you all for the advice so far.
Do you think $6500 is enough to have a good time betting $25 on blackjack? or the pass line in craps?

Or should I just stick to $5 and not be concerned about comps?

I am also looking for $50-80 tourneys, but the PH has a massive $20 admin fee. Any suggestions?

First of all, comps should not be a primary, or even a secondary motivator for your play. And you will still get comps if you bet $5--just not as much. Just make sure you ARE rated--it won't happen unless you specifically inform the floorman. One tip--start off with larger bets, and make sure those bets are observed (for your rating), then drop down to smaller bets after a few minutes. When you color up, inform the floorman that you're leaving, and he will note that your play is over--but you will get credit for the earlier, higher bet amount for the entire play period. Also, don't be afraid to ask for a "discretionary comp"--one that is not based on a strict totaling of your bets, but rather, one based on a subjective observation of your action. The latitude that floormen have in issuing such comps varies widely from casino to casino, but one very worthwhile phrase to use in Vegas is, "It never hurts to ask."

Betting $25/hand exposes you to a possible loss of several thousand dollars. Are you comfortable with that?

In my experience, it is just as much fun betting $5 as betting $25. Even if betting $25 is more fun because it gives you a "thrill", it isn't FIVE TIMES as much fun, if you get my drift.

The administration fee you mention is, unfortunately, pretty common for small buyin tourneys. In general, you should stay away from any Harrah's property if you want to play poker, because they charge considerably more for both live games and tournaments than anyone else in Vegas. In fact, "stay away from any Harrah's property" is good advice in general. I don't know what your transportation options are, but the Orleans has small buyin ($40-$120) tourneys twice a day, and the poker room is always buzzing with live action. Surprisingly, in the tournaments, most of the opposition really stinks. You can get there via a free shuttle from Bill's on the corner of Flamingo and the Strip. On the Strip, you might want to check out the Luxor and Excalibur for low buyin tourneys. Pick up a copy of Poker Player magazine in any poker room for a list of daily tourneys in Vegas.

Quote: thecesspit

Taking $10 from Steve Wynn's casino and losing it in the New Frontier felt much better than doing it in reverse the next day, I can tell you :) But yep, walking out the door with a few dollars extra is a nice feeling and a nice buzz for the stroll down the strip (ride to the next off-strip property).

Course, being down $100 from shitty cards in a shitty casino with shitty staff is the opposite (Excalibur and the Luxor back to back, last year), but that's the breaks and a walk to the bar in NYNY and a good craft beer cured that malaise.

Ugh...this just reminded me of my last time in Luxor. Had a great time in Mandalay bay. I think I turned $800 into $1800. On my way back to Excalibur(I can't pass up $20/night rooms after my comped ones run out) I stopped at Luxor and lost $600 in 10 minutes of the worst shooting I've ever seen. Talk about a buzzkill even when I was still up for the day.

anyone seen penn and teller?

I loved their show. The Harrah's casinos all have 2 for 1 coupons on the show, if you stop by the front desk of one and ask.

Quote: WizardofEngland

anyone seen penn and teller?

Yep. About 10 years ago, in New Jersey, before they took up residence in Vegas.

I enjoyed it, and I'm not really a Vegas show type person.

Quote: dlevinelaw

I loved their show. The Harrah's casinos all have 2 for 1 coupons on the show, if you stop by the front desk of one and ask.

excellent!

Unless the Luxor has changed, their low buy in tournaments are the worst run crap shoot I've ever had the misfortune to play in. It may well have, but the poker tournie there was awful. The Excalibur ring games are fun, the tournaments just so-so. I'd second a run out to the Orleans, poker there is fun and good value. I also liked the IP for poker action in the past, but this was also a fair time ago.

I do have two buddies who've played the $300 at the Wynn and said it was a fantastic experience.

Anyways, I do agree... best laid plans never survive an encounter with the enemy.

Two thumbs up for Penn & Teller. But if you're going to go, I recommend not doing the 2 for 1, and instead sitting up close. Magic you can't see is pretty dumb.

Quote: FinsRule

Two thumbs up for Penn & Teller. But if you're going to go, I recommend not doing the 2 for 1, and instead sitting up close. Magic you can't see is pretty dumb.

I thought Penn and Teller was very boring and unspectacular. I paid full price, real dumb.

Quote: WizardofEngland

Thank you all for the advice so far.
Do you think $6500 is enough to have a good time betting $25 on blackjack? or the pass line in craps?

Or should I just stick to $5 and not be concerned about comps?

I am also looking for $50-80 tourneys, but the PH has a massive $20 admin fee. Any suggestions?

The best blackjack games at Planet Hollywood are usually $100 minimums with a house edge of 0.28%. These same games can be had elsewhere on the strip at $10 minimums. They also have $25 minimums with a 0.48% HE and a $15 double deck at a 0.60%. This assumes perfect basic strategy.

You say that every bet you make has a negative expectation so you're not counting. Seek out full tables and take frequent breaks. This will lower your hands per hour and ultimately your losses. There is nothing wrong with $5 tables. You can bet more anytime you want, but you can't bet less at a $25 table.

Don't think about comps just let them come. Charge everything to your room. Whatever comps you get at the end of the week is a nice bonus albeit one that you've paid for.

For your craps question I'll defer to one of the many people on this site who know the game inside and out.

You can experience all that Vegas has to offer and play the games you enjoy without losing $6500. That's not the memory you want of your first visit.