StricklyAP/WizardofNothing
Quote: gordonm888LOL, I mean I laughed at loud at this. First, if you don't like bullies then stay off of social media - including the WOV Forum. In my experience, WoN was the biggest bully I encountered on this forum. He would spam some of my threads, making countless personal attacks on me that were worded in ways that skirted the Forum's rules about personal attacks.
If you had told me that one member of this forum was a scumbag con-artist who cheated people, I would have hoped it would have been WoN - because he was such a bully.
That was never my experience. But regardless, this has never been about defending WON. This has been about the actions of casinokiller, and the fact that essentially all of you are OK with what has been done here is pretty scary and you may live to regret it. The danger with allowing this kind of behavior is that if he did this to one person, he'll do it again when things don't go his way, and the situation may not be nearly as cut and dry as it appears to be with WON. When he or his friends starts doxing you or someone else because he happened to lose on a play, he gets thrown out of some casino and decides to place the blame on you, etc., I think you won't be as big of a fan of stalking and extortion as you and everyone else here currently seems to be.
Quote: cwazyThe situation may not be nearly as cut and dry as it appears to be with WOV.
We've seen his mugshot and fraud convictions. Multiple member's have stories of getting ripped off by him.
Other people like CK may or may not have done anything wrong, I really don't know enough about it.
But what about WON about that is not VERY cut and dry?
edit: I read cwazy's post incorrectly
Quote: gamerfreakWe've seen his mugshot and fraud convictions. Multiple member's have stories of getting ripped off by him.
Other people like CK may or may not have done anything wrong, I really don't know enough about it.
But what about WON about that is not VERY cut and dry?
Umm wut? I literally just said that the situation appears to be cut and dry with WOV, but it may not be the next time something doesn't go Casinokiller's way and he acts in precisely the same way because you all cheered him on when he did it the first time.
Read the thread before responding to it. Casinokiller is the person who put the site up and started this whole thing.
Quote: cwazyUmm wut? I literally just said that the situation appears to be cut and dry with WOV, but it may not be the next time something doesn't go his way and he acts in precisely the same way because you all cheered him on when he did it the first time.
Read the thread before responding to it. Casinokiller is the person who put the site up and started this whole thing.
my fault read that wrong
Quote: cwazyUmm wut? I literally just said that the situation appears to be cut and dry with WOV, but it may not be the next time something doesn't go Casinokiller's way and he acts in precisely the same way because you all cheered him on when he did it the first time.
Read the thread before responding to it. Casinokiller is the person who put the site up and started this whole thing.
But you can't assume there is going to be a next or that he would ever have that intention. The website was posted with all true information. There is no defamation or libel when there are true statements. I don't know about the using the persons name as a website. Maybe there is an issue there but there is definitely no issue when posting true stuff.
You mentioned multiple times that you heard casinokiller did stalking through facebook and made facebook pages to attack others (I believe that is how you said it) I dont see you posting any proof of that info. If you claim he is bullying, then are you not doing the same and without proof could be accused of libel. eye for an eye?
Here we go again, people making more assumptions. Is he claiming or has he claimed that HE put up that site?Quote: cwazyCasinokiller is the person who put the site up and started this whole thing.
Quote: cwazyThat was never my experience. But regardless, this has never been about defending WON. This has been about the actions of casinokiller, and the fact that essentially all of you are OK with what has been done here is pretty scary and you may live to regret it. The danger with allowing this kind of behavior is that if he did this to one person, he'll do it again when things don't go his way, and the situation may not be nearly as cut and dry as it appears to be with WON. When he or his friends starts doxing you or someone else because he happened to lose on a play, he gets thrown out of some casino and decides to place the blame on you, etc., I think you won't be as big of a fan of stalking and extortion as you and everyone else here currently seems to be.
Well we agree on one thing.
WON will do it again
Quote: GWAEBut you can't assume there is going to be a next or that he would ever have that intention.
Generally speaking, people that would go to the lengths that he has gone here WILL do it again, because they have so little power over their own lives that they try to hurt others in any way that they can. That also happens to be the very definition of a bully.
Quote: GWAE. The website was posted with all true information. There is no defamation or libel when there are true statements.
There are statements of fact on there that would have any civil attorney would salivating. "Jeffrey Toll has scammed dozens of people for large amounts of money, totaling over 1 million dollars" is a statement of fact. To defend that statement in court, Casinokiller would have to produce at least 24 people (to satisfy the "dozens" statement) who have been defrauded out of a total of over $1 million (which as previously stated, unless there are 20K+ more victims, seems unlikely). Also, apparently the provable fraud total actually rose from 6 to 7 figures as he was typing the page - WON must have been hard at work that day. At the very beginning of the page,, the figure seems to be lower, but there are more statements of fact. "He has taken hundreds of thousands of dollars from individuals just so he can satisfy his gambling fix. He is mentally unstable and dangerous.". Casinokiller would be unable to defend a libel claim on that statement, unless he already has a report in hand from a licensed psychotherapist saying that WON has gambling problem, is mentally unstable, and a danger to the community.
There are many more examples throughout the text on that site. So does WON have a libel claim? He most certainly does.
Quote: GWAE
You mentioned multiple times that you heard casinokiller did stalking through facebook and made facebook pages to attack others (I believe that is how you said it) I dont see you posting any proof of that info. If you claim he is bullying, then are you not doing the same and without proof could be accused of libel. eye for an eye?
First, it isn't the Facebook actions that by themselves would consititute stalking. Merely creating the site with the intent to inflict emotional distress violated the federal stalking statute. However, I was simply saying what I have heard, and hearsay is not grounds for a libel suit. That said, I have the money for attorneys, and would love nothing more than to face a bully like this down in court. Based on his actions, I'm guessing he doesn't have the money for an attorney (because he would have been advised not to do what he's already done here), so I won't hold my breath waiting for the process server to knock on my door. But I'm game if he is.
Quote: the noticeIn response to a complaint we received under the US Digital Millennium Copyright Act, we have removed 5 result(s) from this page. If you wish, you may read the DMCA complaint that caused the removal(s) at LumenDatabase.org.
which leads you to:
https://www.lumendatabase.org/notices/16121231#
and is a complaint that a facebook photo is being used without authorization
Quote: darkozWell we agree on one thing.
WON will do it again
May he will, but that's not what I said.
Quote: cwazyGenerally speaking, people that would go to the lengths that he has gone here WILL do it again, because they have so little power over their own lives that they try to hurt others in any way that they can. That also happens to be the very definition of a bully.
There are statements of fact on there that would have any civil attorney would salivating. "Jeffrey Toll has scammed dozens of people for large amounts of money, totaling over 1 million dollars" is a statement of fact. To defend that statement in court, Casinokiller would have to produce at least 24 people (to satisfy the "dozens" statement) who have been defrauded out of a total of over $1 million (which as previously stated, unless there are 20K+ more victims, seems unlikely). Also, apparently the provable fraud total actually rose from 6 to 7 figures as he was typing the page - WON must have been hard at work that day. At the very beginning of the page,, the figure seems to be lower, but there are more statements of fact. "He has taken hundreds of thousands of dollars from individuals just so he can satisfy his gambling fix. He is mentally unstable and dangerous.". Casinokiller would be unable to defend a libel claim on that statement, unless he already has a report in hand from a licensed psychotherapist saying that WON has gambling problem, is mentally unstable, and a danger to the community.
There are many more examples throughout the text on that site. So does WON have a libel claim? He most certainly does.
First, it isn't the Facebook actions that by themselves would consititute stalking. Merely creating the site with the intent to inflict emotional distress violated the federal stalking statute. However, I was simply saying what I have heard, and hearsay is not grounds for a libel suit. That said, I have the money for attorneys, and would love nothing more than to face a bully like this down in court. Based on his actions, I'm guessing he doesn't have the money for an attorney (because he would have been advised not to do what he's already done here), so I won't hold my breath waiting for the process server to knock on my door. But I'm game if he is.
ok you are definitely right on that count. There are things in there that are probably statements of opinion. If he were to just post dancers article, first hand stories, and links to his records would you have a problem with that site? Leaving out his opinion and hearsay?
Quote: GWAEok you are definitely right on that count. There are things in there that are probably statements of opinion. If he were to just post dancers article, first hand stories, and links to his records would you have a problem with that site? Leaving out his opinion and hearsay?
Again, my main problem with all that has happened here is the intent to inflict emotional distress, and what will happen in a situation where things aren't nearly as black and white as they appear to be here. The creator of this site now has nearly 40 pages of people endorsing what he's done. The kind of person that gets away with this once - and now has fans because of it - will use the threat of doing it again as leverage against anyone that he has contact with. Run bad on a play that he has a piece of? Better just reimburse him and let him freeroll, or he's going to dox you. You can't even be around people like this, because what if he decides you had something to do with a play he was doing getting shutdown simply because you were there and knew about it, even if his suspicion is unfounded?
WON may very well have done many of the things mentioned here and that have been posted on that site. I again want to make clear that I am not defending a single negative thing he has done. But by allowing this to be done in the way that it has (and even celebrating it), you guys have created a monster that will come back to bite you.
Quote: AcesAndEightsCan someone give me a TLDR of this dust up? Or link me to a summary post. I thought it was strictlyAP that got doxed but I guess it was WoN? strictlyAP self-banned years ago for supposedly getting email spam, right?
Apparently SAP and WoN are the same person, a known scammer whose real name the administrators do not want us to mention. SAP was banned for welshing if I recall, not a self ban.
Edit.... And welcome back!
Not even a good attempt for an elementary student to hide your identity. I would expect much better.😜😃
I would normally issue an immediate ban but this thread is rather overheated so will exercise some discretion. However, I'll be keeping a closer watch going forward.
Quote: SOOPOOApparently SAP and WoN are the same person, a known scammer whose real name the administrators do not want us to mention. SAP was banned for welshing if I recall, not a self ban.
Edit.... And welcome back!
I remember the welching fiasco but I found this thread and thought that was the end of strictlyAP:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/20382-goodbye-forum/6/#post428247
But it looks like it happened almost simultaneously with the welching thing and I'm not a good enough forum anthropologist to dig in to the exact details and timestamps :)
Quote: JoFFREYTOLLThis guy has also victimized several women; been locked up for domestic abuse several times, and specifically targets Jewish women in romance scams with the intention of defrauding them later.
If you google his name + "involuntary exclusion pennsylvania", you will see that there is an upcoming meeting for him to be placed on Pennsylvania's involuntary exclusion list (OHA #5494-2017), which means a statewide ban. I wouldn't be surprised if a similar outcome for other states is in his future.
(Possibly interpreted as threatening physical harm remark redacted. - bbb)
That’s cwazy
Quote: JoFFREYTOLLThis guy has also victimized several women; been locked up for domestic abuse several times, and specifically targets Jewish women in romance scams with the intention of defrauding them later.
If you google his name + "involuntary exclusion pennsylvania", you will see that there is an upcoming meeting for him to be placed on Pennsylvania's involuntary exclusion list (OHA #5494-2017), which means a statewide ban. I wouldn't be surprised if a similar outcome for other states is in his future.
(Possibly interpreted as threatening physical harm remark redacted. - bbb)
It’s interesting that a brand new account with 1 post is so well versed in this whole situation. Are the mods just sleeping at the wheel now? Or has the witch hunt gotten so bad that mods are allowing forum rules to be broken and allowing Casinokiller et al to have multiple accounts, lest they meet the same fate as Mission?
I won’t even wade into the libel issues associated with the “Jewish romance scam” comment. I think we'd all love to see some proof of that, which you undoubtedly have because you never post anything recklessly that has no merit (all kidding aside, I would like to see proof of that if you have it - otherwise this is just more of the same drivel you've been spewing). Perhaps post it from another new account? It seems that the mods won’t mind. Maybe CasinoKilla is available.
Quote: cwazyIt’s interesting that a brand new account with 1 post is so well versed in this whole situation. Are the mods just sleeping at the wheel now? Or has the witch hunt gotten so bad that mods are allowing forum rules to be broken and allowing Casinokiller et al to have multiple accounts, lest they meet the same fate as Mission?
I won’t even wade into the libel issues associated with the “Jewish romance scam” comment. I think we'd all love to see some proof of that, which you undoubtedly have because you never post anything recklessly that has no merit (all kidding aside, I would like to see proof of that if you have it - otherwise this is just more of the same drivel you've been spewing). Perhaps post it from another new account? It seems that the mods won’t mind. Maybe CasinoKilla is available.
Not sticking up for the mods but they usually don't ban someone without some kind of ip match hence the reason WoN lasted so long.
But the Pennsylvania gambling exclusion meeting is listed.
This Weds March 21
Edit:
If there is any doubt within a month or so his face name and reason for exclusion will be posted on the Pennsylvania gambling exclusion list. A publicly viewable list on the web
They have an alphabetical listing as well as by date of exclusion
I don't believe it's doxxing to place a link to the Pennsylvania state exclusion listing board in general
Correct mods?
Quote: cwazyIt’s interesting that a brand new account with 1 post is so well versed in this whole situation. Are the mods just sleeping at the wheel now? Or has the witch hunt gotten so bad that mods are allowing forum rules to be broken and allowing Casinokiller et al to have multiple accounts, lest they meet the same fate as Mission?
I won’t even wade into the libel issues associated with the “Jewish romance scam” comment. I think we'd all love to see some proof of that, which you undoubtedly have because you never post anything recklessly that has no merit (all kidding aside, I would like to see proof of that if you have it - otherwise this is just more of the same drivel you've been spewing). Perhaps post it from another new account? It seems that the mods won’t mind. Maybe CasinoKilla is available.
You're a bit confused on how it works. We require proof, not just accusations.
Why would you think Casinokiller is the only person on the planet angry with SAP or aware of his activities? His account was still unbanned at the time: if he wanted to post this, he could have.
OutsideTheBox 14 day suspension amended to nuke, dupe ID.
JoFFREYTOLL is banned, nuclear option, for trolling.
Majorwager is banned for dupe id, previously banned member.
NameThatTune is banned for dupeid, previously banned member.
Quote: beachbumbabsCasinokiller is banned, nuclear option, for dupe ID.
OutsideTheBox 14 day suspension amended to nuke, dupe ID.
JoFFREYTOLL is banned, nuclear option, for trolling.
Majorwager is banned for dupe id, previously banned member.
NameThatTune is banned for dupeid, previously banned member.
Thanks for the work. It must be a PITA.
Quote: beachbumbabsCasinokiller is banned, nuclear option, for dupe ID.
OutsideTheBox 14 day suspension amended to nuke, dupe ID.
JoFFREYTOLL is banned, nuclear option, for trolling.
Majorwager is banned for dupe id, previously banned member.
NameThatTune is banned for dupeid, previously banned member.
Damn Babs they really making you work hard
Quote: beachbumbabsJoshContact is banned, nuclear option, for dupe id.
Any chance we can know who they were dupe id’s of?
Quote: PokerGrinderAny chance we can know who they were dupe id’s of?
Do not ask: For whom the bell tolls.
Quote: PokerGrinderAny chance we can know who they were dupe id’s of?
Casino killer and OTB were the same person . The proof of that emerged this morning, though it wasn't there before.
The last 3 were WoN.
No proof on the JoFF ident belonging to a former or current member, but there were offensive unsupported allegations and vague accusations, and just one factual report unrelated to those cited, so it did not pass my useful information test. The member name used is also at least close to, if not outright doxxing, so we're not going to allow that account to stand.
Quote: boymimboFrankly at this point in time I would close this thread and not mention the topic again. Points are clear, and I think WoV may be opening itself up to legal difficulties.
There are forums and groups all over the internet that discuss shady, people, companies, investments, etc.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13There are forums and groups all over the internet that discuss shady, people, companies, investments, etc.
ZCore13
The forum itself probably doesn't have liability, although as a moderated forum, it's in murky territory. RipoffReport and other similar sites get away with it because they are not moderated in any meaningful way (they refuse to take down posts, etc.).
I doubt WOV itself will be sued, unless it turns out that staff have been involved in making accusations or assisting in the bullying/stalking, which I don't believe is the case (at least at this point). The way it works is that a criminal complaint and/or lawsuit is filed against the parties already known to have liability, and then a subpoena gets issued for the forum databases, and then whatever has happened on the forum behind the scenes will be found out. If additional defendants need to be added to the criminal and/or civil case(s) after review of the databases, they will be.
My (somewhat educated) guess is that the legal arrows are being sharpened at the moment and will start flying soon. I don't think anybody could have reasonably expected a happy ending to any of this once it was started.
There have been a lot of side issues brought forward that didn't need to be in this thread and some unsupported allegations, but I think there are still accounts worth hearing, whether people tell them or not.
However, if Wizard, Zuga, or any of those above me want it closed, I will certainly not protest.
Quote: cwazyMy (somewhat educated) guess is that the legal arrows are being sharpened at the moment and will start flying soon. I don't think anybody could have reasonably expected a happy ending to any of this once it was started.
Good grief, what is your agenda?
WoN has zero cause of action against this site that I can see, and zero ability to fund protracted litigation.
Were a scammer to go public and sue, his identity and address would be discernible, thus allowing any who claim to have been scammed, defrauded and harmed to either sue him or mete out a bit of "private justice."
No sir, that dog won't hunt.
Give it a rest, will ya?
Quote: MrV
WoN has zero cause of action against this site that I can see
On this point, you are incorrect. And that has been my point this entire time.
Quote: cwazyOn this point, you are incorrect. And that has been my point this entire time.
Conspiracy theories?
Was that the wiz on the grassy knoll?
Quote: MrVConspiracy theories?
Was that the wiz on the grassy knoll?
I don't know, but I can read laws, and I can match them up to illegal conduct.
What illegal conduct?
Quote: MrVWhat laws?
What illegal conduct?
I've posted it so many times, I'm not posting it again. Go back and look. Anyway it doesn't matter what your opinion is, I guess when the people behind this whole stalking and harassment campaign are criminally charged, you'll see. Until then it's just two people disagreeing on a forum.
Lot of legal leeway with social media, and like I said do you seriously think WoN would be damn fool enough to actually file a lawsuit, thus exposing himself to numerous legal claims against him?
Hell, I doubt he can scrape up enough cash to buy a cup of coffee, let alone fund litigation.
Sure, in America you can usually find a lawyer somewhere willing to sue anybody for anything, but you need to pay a hefty retainer first, and more as things move forward.
What would his claimed damages be?
Loss of reputation?
That's a good one!
He's been damned, banned and tossed from this board like a bag of smelly, dirty diapers: his rep is beyond tarnished.
Quote: MrVI've read your posts, I see no real world issues for this board.
We'll have to agree to disagree until Casinokiller et al get arrested. Let's table any further discussion because it's going nowhere. You are entitled to think you're right until you are proven wrong. Hell, based on this conversation, my guess is that you'll think you're right even after you're proven wrong. Enjoy.
