Trump's Second and Third year in office
Quote: FaceOh. Well, there's the problem. I just didn't communicate properly.
My post that started all this was an airing of frustration, which I hoped to convey with the "save myself the stroke" line. The point I was trying to make, admittedly with some frustration fueled snark, was that discussion at this time is pointless because it's not a case of finding a solution, but rather to win one for your side. I tried to support this claim by reminding of all the baseless assertions made upon cosmetic enhancements or fear-mongering through use of twisted definitions, and used the 98% stat not to support the gunner side, and certainly not as a direct comment towards GFZ's because GFZ = gun violence is not an argument I ever make, but to show that no matter what I attempt to bring to the table as a genuine attempt to educate, there will never be any proper discussion but instead just an attack based on stance. You know, kinda exactly what ended up happening.
I suppose it was a bit of a bait; as I said, that stat is a bit flawed and there are plenty of avenues in which to attack it, and knowing this I suppose I was hoping to draw someone into just that. I thought it would've been a good sample to use, and would've gotten people involved in actual research, and that people would have actually seen the raw facts and maybe learn a thing or two. And in a way, I kinda needed / wanted to prove to myself that that sort of exchange was still possible here, as I've been questioning that more and more as of late. I guess it was a fail on all counts.
I'd delve back into your other questions if you're truly interested, but it seems unwanted and a non-priority, what with the myriad other political issues, and the fact the latest mass shootings have been committed with just shotguns. But I will end with this: Dan Patrick received criticism for making the statement that since '50, only TWO mass shootings have occurred outside of GFZ's. That is a statement even I would rate as "absurd", and if was uttered to me, would receive the reply from me of "Horses#$%". Yet Politifact, which I think is accepted around here, didn't rate it "pants on fire", "false", or even "mostly false". They rated it "half true".
Just trying to encourage people to find facts, instead of settling for those fed to them. I'll go back to my hole now.
So your preferred method of encouraging people to find facts is to post fake facts and then get upset when people point out the absurdity of your post.
Noted.
What is the procedure for putting someone on ignore, please?
In a report on Friday, the network said what it described as the latest U.S. intelligence assessment appeared to go counter to sentiments expressed by President Donald Trump, who tweeted after an unprecedented June 12 summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un that "there is no longer a nuclear threat from North Korea."
NBC quoted five unidentified U.S. officials as saying that in recent months North Korea had stepped up production of enriched uranium for nuclear weapons, even as it engaged in diplomacy with the United States.
The network cited U.S. officials as saying that the intelligence assessment concludes that North Korea has more than one secret nuclear site in addition to its known nuclear fuel production facility at Yongbyon.
Winning.
Quote: AxelWolfHow many Nukes did we find in Iraq?
Your point?
I don't have much faith in the U.S. intelligence, especially since there are peopleQuote: billryanYour point?
seem to be willing to sacrifice anything just to take down Trump.
It seems to me.... the more people go after Trump the more support he gets.
All the snowflakes are going to have major meltdowns when he gets reelected.
Quote: AxelWolfHow many Nukes did we find in Iraq?
The problem with the comparison of iraq WMD and North Korea you are making is...
Nuclear explosions!!!
Perhaps it should be worded "How many nuclear explosions did Iraq perform as tests?"
"How many did North Korea perform?"
I dont recall seeing any news of Iraqi nuclear explosions
Is it your stance that North Korea did NOT explode nuclear weapons in testing recently?
Which then begs the question why does anyone care if Trump went to North Korea (if your claim is NK nuclear weapons are WMD hysteria)
Quote: BozQuote: beachbumbabsQuote: Face
(Snip).
Work with me, here. I am here to help, and am in fact peerless when it comes to gun debates (*like this). I do take this stuff seriously and as such, have viewed most if not all things I state from all sides, as opposed to just hoarding clips and quips that fit my narrative. Do you need help picking my claim apart? I can help you do that, as I do know areas where this particular argument is weak, and could at least get you rolling on your quest to prove your claim that I am a liar. If you'd like to save face (hooray for puns!), all you need do is ask.
If you need an incentive, then name your terms.
Face,
You were talking to billryan, but I was a bit put off by some of what you said, too. Think it was (implied or said, not sure) tell you any of the gun control proposals, and you'd tell why it wouldn't work.
I think it's a given that every proposal has its drawbacks. Innocent people get on no-fly lists all the time, for example, and yet the no-fly-no-gun idea has near-universal support.
Nay-saying is the easy part. We have a real problem, please don't deny that . Maybe, though, the problem is not defined yet, and so can't be solved by current solutions?
For all I know, the thing all these disaffected white guys have in common is Fleastiff's theory about brain parasites eating their control centers . And the solution is fixing gut bacteria, as he says.
But since you're an expert on guns, what do YOU think has to be done to stop mass shootings? Maybe I missed your solution somewhere, and you can simply paste it.
Many discussion points here but can you please stop with the “White Guys” stuff?
To me no different than saying anything else about members that is against the rules here.
Come on Babs, don’t fall into that game. Whatever the context.
Boz,
Unless there are members here who are mass shooters, I have made no insult. But how do you even start a conversation about a solution if you don't look at facts? It's not a game, it's reality. That your first impulse is to deny and accuse rather than accept the facts, is telling.
These charts show breakdown by race and gender from 1982 through Feb 2018. Since then, we also had Santa Fe Texas and Annapolis, so the WM demographics percentages would be slightly higher for both now.
Edit: I misstated slightly what these represent. These are incidences by number, not percentage. So add 2 to each (white becomes 58, male becomes 96) out of a total of 99 instances.
You're deflecting away from the real discussion needed. Why is this demographic true? That's what needs more exploration if we're going to get anywhere.
Quote: beachbumbabsQuote: BozQuote: beachbumbabsQuote: Face
(Snip).
Work with me, here. I am here to help, and am in fact peerless when it comes to gun debates (*like this). I do take this stuff seriously and as such, have viewed most if not all things I state from all sides, as opposed to just hoarding clips and quips that fit my narrative. Do you need help picking my claim apart? I can help you do that, as I do know areas where this particular argument is weak, and could at least get you rolling on your quest to prove your claim that I am a liar. If you'd like to save face (hooray for puns!), all you need do is ask.
If you need an incentive, then name your terms.
Face,
You were talking to billryan, but I was a bit put off by some of what you said, too. Think it was (implied or said, not sure) tell you any of the gun control proposals, and you'd tell why it wouldn't work.
I think it's a given that every proposal has its drawbacks. Innocent people get on no-fly lists all the time, for example, and yet the no-fly-no-gun idea has near-universal support.
Nay-saying is the easy part. We have a real problem, please don't deny that . Maybe, though, the problem is not defined yet, and so can't be solved by current solutions?
For all I know, the thing all these disaffected white guys have in common is Fleastiff's theory about brain parasites eating their control centers . And the solution is fixing gut bacteria, as he says.
But since you're an expert on guns, what do YOU think has to be done to stop mass shootings? Maybe I missed your solution somewhere, and you can simply paste it.
Many discussion points here but can you please stop with the “White Guys” stuff?
To me no different than saying anything else about members that is against the rules here.
Come on Babs, don’t fall into that game. Whatever the context.
Boz,
Unless there are members here who are mass shooters, I have made no insult. But how do you even start a conversation about a solution if you don't look at facts? It's not a game, it's reality. That your first impulse is to deny and accuse rather than accept the facts, is telling.
These charts show breakdown by race and gender from 1982 through Feb 2018. Since then, we also had Santa Fe Texas and Annapolis, so the WM demographics percentages would be slightly higher for both now.
You're deflecting away from the real discussion needed. Why is this demographic true? That's what needs more exploration if we're going to get anywhere.
Tbey are too uptight. Need some soul (black soul as in music but probably as in humanity too)
White men need to start dating other races. It will really cool them down
Quote: darkozQuote: beachbumbabsQuote: BozQuote: beachbumbabsQuote: Face
(Snip).
Work with me, here. I am here to help, and am in fact peerless when it comes to gun debates (*like this). I do take this stuff seriously and as such, have viewed most if not all things I state from all sides, as opposed to just hoarding clips and quips that fit my narrative. Do you need help picking my claim apart? I can help you do that, as I do know areas where this particular argument is weak, and could at least get you rolling on your quest to prove your claim that I am a liar. If you'd like to save face (hooray for puns!), all you need do is ask.
If you need an incentive, then name your terms.
Face,
You were talking to billryan, but I was a bit put off by some of what you said, too. Think it was (implied or said, not sure) tell you any of the gun control proposals, and you'd tell why it wouldn't work.
I think it's a given that every proposal has its drawbacks. Innocent people get on no-fly lists all the time, for example, and yet the no-fly-no-gun idea has near-universal support.
Nay-saying is the easy part. We have a real problem, please don't deny that . Maybe, though, the problem is not defined yet, and so can't be solved by current solutions?
For all I know, the thing all these disaffected white guys have in common is Fleastiff's theory about brain parasites eating their control centers . And the solution is fixing gut bacteria, as he says.
But since you're an expert on guns, what do YOU think has to be done to stop mass shootings? Maybe I missed your solution somewhere, and you can simply paste it.
Many discussion points here but can you please stop with the “White Guys” stuff?
To me no different than saying anything else about members that is against the rules here.
Come on Babs, don’t fall into that game. Whatever the context.
Boz,
Unless there are members here who are mass shooters, I have made no insult. But how do you even start a conversation about a solution if you don't look at facts? It's not a game, it's reality. That your first impulse is to deny and accuse rather than accept the facts, is telling.
These charts show breakdown by race and gender from 1982 through Feb 2018. Since then, we also had Santa Fe Texas and Annapolis, so the WM demographics percentages would be slightly higher for both now.
You're deflecting away from the real discussion needed. Why is this demographic true? That's what needs more exploration if we're going to get anywhere.
Tbey are too uptight. Need some soul (black soul as in music but probably as in humanity too)
White men need to start dating other races. It will really cool them down
Again, inflammatory deflection. Not useful.
Quote: beachbumbabsBoz,
Unless there are members here who are mass shooters, I have made no insult. But how do you even start a conversation about a solution if you don't look at facts? It's not a game, it's reality. That your first impulse is to deny and accuse rather than accept the facts, is telling.
These charts show breakdown by race and gender from 1982 through Feb 2018. Since then, we also had Santa Fe Texas and Annapolis, so the WM demographics percentages would be slightly higher for both now.
You're deflecting away from the real discussion needed. Why is this demographic true? That's what needs more exploration if we're going to get anywhere.
This is why I don’t buy the brain parasite theory (among many other reasons).
As if it’s not reaching to begin with, I’m supposed to believe these murderous rage inducing bugs only have the taste for middle aged white guy brains?
Quote: MaxPenNot even sure why you need to bring race into it. The chart looks like a population percentage chart and seems pretty evenly distributed.
You could be right. Maybe race has nothing to do with it.
Quote: beachbumbabsYou could be right. Maybe race has nothing to do with it.
I dont know why race would not be a part of it
It also happens to be that serial killers are predominately white middle aged men
White collar monetary crimes are predominately by white men
There should be some studies into this by now
POTUS are predominately white men (and thats a crime)
Quote: darkozI dont know why race would not be a part of it
It also happens to be that serial killers are predominately white middle aged men
White collar monetary crimes are predominately by white men
There should be some studies into this by now
POTUS are predominately white men (and thats a crime)
Last I checked Caucasians are the predominant race in the US. How much over or under 50 something percent is it? So with you bringing race to the forefront of the problem, makes your point what.
Since 1990, only about 30% of serial killers have been white and male.
Since 1900, only about 50% of serial killers have been white. 40% have been black.
Almost 70% of serial killers in the world have been American.
Source
Quote: TigerWuSerial killers in the United States have been predominately black since the 1990's.
Since 1990, only about 30% of serial killers have been white and male.
Since 1900, only about 50% of serial killers have been white. 40% have been black.
Almost 70% of serial killers in the world have been American.
Source
Jeeze
1977-1999 were some rough years
Quote: TigerWuSerial killers in the United States have been predominately black since the 1990's.
Since 1990, only about 30% of serial killers have been white and male.
Since 1900, only about 50% of serial killers have been white. 40% have been black.
Almost 70% of serial killers in the world have been American.
Source
Serial killers in that study begin definition at 2 or more, and by all methods used, not just guns. Not saying it's not a pertinent study, but should not be confused with mass shooters (commonly defined as 4 or more deaths in a single event or spree, using a gun).
Quote: gamerfreak
Jeeze
1977-1999 were some rough years
Wow, I just noticed that. Serial killing ramped up right at the end of the Vietnam War. Wonder if that had anything to do with it? They have an overall statistic for serial killers with military service but it would be interesting to see that by year.
Here is what I see as common in mass shootings that are not terrorist/politically motivated:
1). The perpetrators seem to be mentally unstable and/or feel they have been outcast/wronged by their peers
2). Shooters are almost always male.
3). Oftentimes, those around the shooter & or social media posts indicate the perpetrator was having irrational violent thoughts prior to taking action.
3). A lot of school shootings are done by those with a connection to the school.
4). Significant damage can be done with any weapon, including shotguns, pistols and semi-automatic rifles.
5). The perpetrator is halted and the killing ends when someone with another weapon shows up on scene and the shooter realizes his own death by gun fire is imminent if he doesn’t stop...or he is shot.
6). Weapons used have been both legally purchased and stolen/illegally taken from family members possession (e.g. son taking parents gun).
7). Re-loading/ammunition management causes the perpetrator to pause in creating carnage.
I am sure I am missing some commonalities and will be appropriately corrected below. But given the above, I believe more money/effort should be spent on the following in no particular order:
1). Monitoring school kids mental health. Zero tolerance for bullying, particularly cyber bullying which is easily traceable and ensuring that kids have a place to “fit in” and feel valued. The pressure our kids are under living in an instant connected peer group community is daunting and for a variety of social problems, a kid’s homes/parents don’t seem to be able to handle this change. Particular attention should be placed on the male student body.
2). Background checks and requirements that every gun in America to be legally purchased must run through an FFL.
3). The particulars of a background check be re-visited/vetted for better effectiveness (eg is no fly list to be used?, reporting of family members changes in mental illness?, or leave requirements as is?, etc.)
4). Magazine/Gun capacity limits to 10 rounds...with a pro gun bias, I don’t really like this despite living under this law in CA. However, I see this restriction as very unlikely to impede my personal defensive abilities and will have an impact on those that are using guns to attack others by slowing down their speed of attack.
5). We need more trained armed security as part of our daily lives. That can take many forms (police, private security forces, armed citizen CCW holders, etc.) I believe a perpetrator knowing he is more likely to face immediate return fire from police, security or armed citizens is a deterrent to commemcing a mass shooting and will certainly reduce carnage.
6). With the right of gun ownership comes the resposibility to train and secure your firearms at all times. If someone you know gains access to your weapon and commits a crime, there should be severe legal consequneces including jail time and a revocation of your ability to own firearms. If a weapon isn’t on your person, it should be locked in a gun safe where only you have the combo/biometric key.
If America wants a change in the frequency and magnitufmde of mass shootings, banning certain guns but not all guns isn’t going to work. The Anti-Gun side knows this because you haven’t seen their leaders up in arms & all over the news demanding a ban on “military assault weapons’ & “weapons of war” after the Texas or Baltimore. The shocker is that all guns can be used to kill a lot of people if they are in the hands of unstable people and no one is present to stop them.
Banning all semi-auto pistols, pump action shotguns or semi-auto rifles in America will not happen in the US without a repeal of 2A. The 2/3 majority ratification required to accomplish this is not present and unlikely to ever be present in the US.
So we are left with guns capable of being used in mass shootings being available in America as an unchangeable fact. The quest should be to keep those guns out of the hands of bad people and detering their ability to do damage should they get their hands on a weapon despite those efforts.
Quote: MaxPenLast I checked Caucasians are the predominant race in the US. How much over or under 50 something percent is it? So with you bringing race to the forefront of the problem, makes your point what.
Where did i limit serial killers to the US?
Quote: NathanI guess what won Trump the Presidency is that he was actually a fire cracker, someone who was saying stuff that really shook things up whereas Hillary was saying stuff that was said a thousand times already.
If you listen to trump by comparing quotes you quickly realize he just says what you want to hear
He changes his stance to fit who his audience is
Nowadays we call that lying
Quote: NathanI guess what won Trump the Presidency is that he was actually a fire cracker, someone who was saying stuff that really shook things up whereas Hillary was saying stuff that was said a thousand times already.
Then again, it could be that America was sick of Obama's quasi-socialist liberalism.
Or maybe ma and pa Kettle felt it was bad enough that they'd elected a black man (twice!), so by thunder they'd not compound things by then electing a woman.
Or maybe it was the Russians.
fascinating listen. Even though I had arrived at my location I didn't want to get out of the car untill I finished listening to the entire thing.
Heres a short version of his story on the Moth hour.
A Neuroscientist: Confessions of a Pro-Social Psychopath
If you like good BJ stories check out Josh Axelrad on the Moth as well.
Quote: NathanI guess what won Trump the Presidency is that he was actually a fire cracker, someone who was saying stuff that really shook things up whereas Hillary was saying stuff that was said a thousand times already.
That, and everyone else he was running against was sooo crappy.
I guess people decided if all of their options were s****y, might as well vote for the guy who's at least entertaining.
Quote: TigerWuThat, and everyone else he was running against was sooo crappy.
I guess people decided if all of their options were s****y, might as well vote for the guy who's at least entertaining.
LMAO! Pick your poison, I guess. ;)
Quote: BozObviously wasn’t the case here. Wishful thinking on your part, or just another time you pushed your bias?
Maxine, Bernie, Jim Accosta, AMS, you are all incredible people for the future of the GOP and hard working Americans.
Again thank you!
And how about the newspaper reporter that tweeted out the shooter wore a MAGA hat? False, by the way. The press hard at work to report accurately so the public trusts and respects them!
Quote: MrVOr maybe ma and pa Kettle felt it was bad enough that they'd elected a black man (twice!),
We had a black president? I thought
we had Obama, who had a 100%
white mother. He's not black, anymore
than a person that's Asian/White is
Chinese. Tiger Woods had a black
father but never ever identifies as
black. He even invented his own word
to describe himself.
Quote: EvenBobWe had a black president? I thought
we had Obama, who had a 100%
white mother. He's not black, anymore
than a person that's Asian/White is
Chinese. Tiger Woods had a black
father but never ever identifies as
black. He even invented his own word
to describe himself.
Careful you don't cut yourself on that edge....
Quote: timberjimAnd how about the newspaper reporter that tweeted out the shooter wore a MAGA hat? False, by the way. The press hard at work to report accurately so the public trusts and respects them!
Not that I'm defending him, but that guy said he was joking when he tweeted that, and not only immediately quit his job, but also apologized to Trump supporters.
Quote: EvenBobWe had a black president? I thought
we had Obama, who had a 100%
white mother. He's not black, anymore
than a person that's Asian/White is
Chinese. Tiger Woods had a black
father but never ever identifies as
black. He even invented his own word
to describe himself.
Eew. Tiger Woods. What a Loser. Cheated on beautiful wife who is the mother of his child. His mistress looked trashy and had a lot of nasty looking tattoos. Jesse James(Sandra Bullock's ex husband) cheated on the beautiful Sandra Bullock with someone way less attractive than her and the kicker was, he was cheating on her while she dedicated a heartfelt speech to him at an Awards show about how thankful she was for him! Jesse James was also a loser!
Quote: TigerWuNot that I'm defending him, but that guy said he was joking when he tweeted that, and not only immediately quit his job, but also apologized to Trump supporters.
Yes, he did say it was a mistake and resigned, but only after he was called on his blatant bias. That is clear in the article you linked to.
Quote: EvenBobWe had a black president? I thought
we had Obama, who had a 100%
white mother. He's not black...
Fine, have it your way.
Barack Obama was a mulatto, the product of miscegenation.
There, ya happy now?
Quote: EvenBob***EXCERPT*** Tiger Woods had a black
father but never ever identifies as
black. He even invented his own word
to describe himself.
Cablinasian
I thought he was Muslim.Quote: aceofspades
Quote: NathanEew. Tiger Woods. What a Loser. Cheated on beautiful wife who is the mother of his child. His mistress looked trashy and had a lot of nasty looking tattoos. Jesse James(Sandra Bullock's ex husband) cheated on the beautiful Sandra Bullock with someone way less attractive than her and the kicker was, he was cheating on her while she dedicated a heartfelt speech to him at an Awards show about how thankful she was for him! Jesse James was also a loser!
What is pathetic is that you decide to rate the attractiveness of the people that TW and JJ cheated with, as if that matters. So if they cheated with super models that is ok? If you get married its ok for your hubby to cheat as long as he finds an upgrade? Please return to Nathan's Corner!
Quote: MrVFine, have it your way.
Barack Obama was a mulatto,
Even in his own Hawaii, he wasn't
black, he was 'hapa', which is
Hawaiian for half. All mixed race
people in Hawaii, and there are
a ton of them, are called hapa's.
Quote: Nathanhe was cheating on her while she dedicated a heartfelt speech to him at an Awards show about how thankful she was for him! Jesse James was also a loser!
Ever think he was maybe sick
of her crap? I've read Sandra
Bullock is kind of a ding dong,
Add to that she's 5 years older
than Jesse. Maybe he had a good
reason for cheating.
Democrat party in droves.
Viral ‘Walk Away’ Videos Highlight Growing Movement of Democrats Leaving the Party
“You know, listen, I’m a gay guy from New York City, but before that, I’m an American, I’m a patriot. I’m now an uncle.” His assessment of the Democrats: “ From immigration to everything, they are just a disaster. “They’re anti-American, anti-common sense, rational—anything good, they’re against it.”
https://www.theepochtimes.com/viral-walk-away-videos-highlight-growing-movement-of-democrats-leaving-the-party_2578446.html
Quote: EvenBob
“You know, listen, I’m a gay guy from New York City, but before that, I’m an American, I’m a patriot. I’m now an uncle.” His assessment of the Democrats: “ From immigration to everything, they are just a disaster. “They’re anti-American, anti-common sense, rational—anything good, they’re against it.”
https://www.theepochtimes.com/viral-walk-away-videos-highlight-growing-movement-of-democrats-leaving-the-party_2578446.html
Just a long term Republican who finally came out.
Quote: rxwineJust a long term Republican who finally came out.
He's sure dragging a lot of Dems
with him, read the article.
Quote: EvenBobHe's sure dragging a lot of Dems
with him, read the article.
So, I show you someone who became a Democrat, what difference does it make to you? Seriously. It makes no difference. Same Evenbob.
Btw, don't ever change parties. They need you far more than we do. 100% more.
Quote: rxwineBtw, don't ever change parties. They need you far more than we do. 100% more.
Didn’t he vote for Obama? lol
Quote: rxwineSo, I show you someone who became a Democrat,
Point: Missed.
Here's what the takeaway is. The loon
part of part Dem party, is driving the non
loons away. In an election year, this
is the polar opposite of what you
want to happen. All these whack job
demonstrations this weekend are
working wonders for alienating the
normal Dems.
Quote: EvenBob
normal Dems.
The platform isn't actually what the lying Repubs say it is. It's not actually open borders. It isn't actually free stuff for everyone. It's not socialism although it is certainly more socialistic than any rightwinger thinks is acceptable. It's not forced abortion. Etc., etc., etc,.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5905479/Shocking-moment-flash-bang-grenade-thrown-right-wing-Patriot-Prayer-rally-Portland.html
Quote: EvenBobEver think he was maybe sick
of her crap? I've read Sandra
Bullock is kind of a ding dong,
Add to that she's 5 years older
than Jesse. Maybe he had a good
reason for cheating.
If he was sick of Sandra's crap he could have done the mature thing about it and either say,"Look, I don't like your attitude," or divorce her. Reminds me of the movie Soul Food where Miles, in a moment of weakness has sex with Teri's cousin and literally seconds after, they both regret it. Teri was being snooty, wasn't having sex with him, and wasn't supporting Miles' dream of being a musician(She wanted him to remain a Lawyer like her), but he had no business cheating on her with her cousin. He should have divorced her instead rather than cheat on her with the next available woman who would sleep with him, which unfortunately was Teri's cousin.
Quote: EvenBobWe had a black president? I thought
we had Obama, who had a 100%
white mother. He's not black, anymore
than a person that's Asian/White is
Chinese. Tiger Woods had a black
father but never ever identifies as
black. He even invented his own word
to describe himself.
That must be why all those southern plantation owners would automatically release their mulatto slaves
They realized they were not black
LMAO
Quote: EvenBobWe had a black president? I thought
we had Obama, who had a 100%
white mother. He's not black, anymore
than a person that's Asian/White is
Chinese. Tiger Woods had a black
father but never ever identifies as
black. He even invented his own word
to describe himself.
Barack Obama, Evenbob and Azduffman all walk into a bar
Someone cries out the N-word
Which guy believes it was intended for them?
Hmmm?
