Trump's Second and Third year in office

Quote: aceofspades

Hey Babs - quick question (excuse my ignorance) -- is the 240 hours calculated based on an 8 hour work day (which would give you 30 days off) or is it calculated on a 24 hour day (which would give you 10 days off)?
Thanks in advance for clearing this up for me.

I'll answer as the gubmint employee that I am..... It is 30 days off, what we would call '6 weeks'. My son, in the private world, has to use it or lose it. His company just changed their rules so he can let one week carry over for a few months.

Most employers allow some carryover. My IT company had "unlimited vacation" meaning that we could rise time off whenever. Of course you had to be productive, overly so.

Quote: SOOPOO

I'll answer as the gubmint employee that I am..... It is 30 days off, what we would call '6 weeks'. My son, in the private world, has to use it or lose it. His company just changed their rules so he can let one week carry over for a few months.

Thanks SOOPOO

Authorities in Arizona revealed three tunnels they discovered this month under the border with Mejico. Trump responded by saying his wall just got ten feet higher. And who will pay for it?

A good executive identifies a problem he wants solved, and gives it to experts to come up with one or more potential solutions to the problem.

Quote: aceofspades

Hey Babs - quick question (excuse my ignorance) -- is the 240 hours calculated based on an 8 hour work day (which would give you 30 days off) or is it calculated on a 24 hour day (which would give you 10 days off)?
Thanks in advance for clearing this up for me.

It's calculated on an hourly basis, on your work schedule. 8 hours is a standard workday, but some work 9 or 10 on a regular basis. However, a leave day is always charged on an 8 hour basis, so the carry-over is 30 days.if you take a half day off, you're charged 4 hours. The smallest increment they charge is in 10th of an hour, or 6 minutes, but you earn full hours.

There are jobs where you can have a schedule longer than 10 hours, like federal firefighters, but ATC is restricted by DOT mandated rest to 10/day, clock starts at midnight local.

Leave is earned on an hourly basis. For your first 3 years you earn 104 hours Annual, and 104 sick leave per year. After 3 years, you earn 156 annual per year. After 15 years, you earn 208 annual. Sick leave stays at 104, but you can bank it indefinitely.

I've known a couple people who cashed out at retirement with 2000+ hours sick leave and the full 240 annual, but we all hate them, because they work sick and make everybody around them sick. We all share the equipment relieving each other, so you're constantly touching keyboards and consoles, not to mention working really close physically to the next guy.

Quote: aceofspades

The FAA is above reproach

https://nypost.com/2016/01/03/the-quota-driven-drive-to-make-flying-more-perilous/

There's some truth to that article, some spin, and a lot left out.

Without writing a book on it...

The hiring process that ended in the decertification of the program was deeply flawed. It came down to people purchasing priority and even guaranteed hiring without having the skills or aptitude to be a controller.

We were getting top-rated hires from the feeder schools who were banging aircraft together because their brain didn't work right. It's a unique skill set underlying the book-learning that was missing on many hires.

I wrote my masters thesis on a portion of this, so I could go on for days. But a semi-executive summary is, your mind has to process a variety of abstract and non-linear information in ways different from most other jobs.

You have to see things in 3 dimensions, translated from 2 dimensional tools. Spock Chess used to be a good analogy. More recently, several video games especially RPGs exercise that skill.

You have to project where aircraft will be in 3 minutes, 5, 10, 20, etc. With a constant mental update and revision of real-time data.

The aircraft have to MOVE in your head, each at its own rate, so that you anticipate and spot immediately that your plan has to change. One of the biggest tells that someone is going to kill someone (and needs to be removed before they do) is when they give a control instruction and check that off their list of concerns.

I've had trainees clear someone to land and then move on and forget that person is inbound still: in their head, that airplane already landed and exited the runway. 2 minutes later, they run someone right through him, or put one on the runway in front of a guy 5 seconds from touchdown.

I've had trainees clear someone to an altitude climbing or descending, then think in their head that guy is level instantly at the new altitude and run some one else right through them. I've had trainees turn a guy and think they're instantly on that heading and run someone into them laterally. I could give you a dozen more examples.

Anyway, these skills are mostly present in your brain or they're not. They're very difficult to test for, though they've had decent success with the AT test that's kind of an IQ test, followed by sophisticated simulators for months at the FAA academy, to try and determine if the person can be taught the mechanics, before they're put on live traffic training.

The FAA while running this process, was only hiring 1 in 1000 applicants, and the failure rate at the Academy was 50%. So 1 in 2000 was reaching a facility to begin training. Of those, about 80% were eventually successful in reaching full controller status, which takes from 2 to 5 years depending on the facility. It costs, on average, 1 million dollars to train a single controller, and that was under the old rules and in 1998 dollars.

Congress was looking for a cheaper and faster way to replace controllers. The FAA was also willing to try. So they shoved the basics onto colleges. Also, the huge hiring after the 1981 strike produced a big bubble of retirement -eligible controllers starting in 2001, peaking around 2006, and everyone gone by about now from that generation. (Mandatory retirement at your 56th birthday, had to be 21 to get hired, can retire as early as 50, some even eligible at 46).

That new process started in 2000 or so, dumped all of the filtering in favor of college schools. That was the only way most people could get hired. This was after a multi-year hiring freeze, and staffing was getting critical. We started getting those people in about 2004.

People paid to go to those schools (instead of the FAA paying trainee wages and teaching from zeronkjowledge) and were almost guaranteed hiring on graduation. But the schools were profit-making and had a financial agenda in graduating as many as possible, inflating grades, ignoring clear signs the person was deficient in the critical thinking skills that underlie snap decisions being correct, not just at that moment, but over time and 3 dimensions.

So they were graduating people who could pass tests from books and managing pre-set problems and controlled simulations, without having the actual skills needed to be safe in a random and ever-changing picture.

Instead of failing those people at the level needed, they got sent to facilities directly into.live-traffic training. And most were so bad at it, they failed and lost their jobs. Washout rate at small, easy facilities was around 30%, climbing to 80% or better at the hard ones. The toughest, NY TRACON, Chicago TRACON, were washing out 95% or more.

And the students were the true victims of that system: they spent an average of 100k to get required training for a job they simply couldn't do. They got a worthless degree with only 1 job source, and their brains weren't wired to do that job. But but but they had the diploma. They paid the money.

So this latest iteration attempts to detect the aptitude and the wiring for the job, not just the ability to cite rules, regulations, and separation standards. And the hiring list left over from those who did the schooling got purged, because the certification was found to be invalid.

I think the EEO charges in the article and i general are overwrought, though it's probably true in part that a person of protected status will get bonus points in hiring consideration over someone who's not. That's true throughout the federal government. Veterans also get bonus points. So do pilots for ATC. And there are other factors.

But the process was deeply flawed. The FAA was wasting buckets of money trying to teach and then out processing ridiculous numbers of misidentified new hires, which often takes years. And thank God they put the safety of the flying public and the integrity of the operation above keeping worthless civil servant hires, and stopped that pipeline.

Edit: sorry, it is a book. But I didn't even touch on the aptitude part - the above is about skills.

If you're going to be a controller, you have to have a God complex, in the "God sees every sparrow that falls" sense. These new trainees would make a mistake that revealed their lack of a basic skill, and go, "so what"?

So What?? Burning pieces of aircraft and crispy critters on your runway or your neighbors lawn is So What! A controller who doesn't love the challenge of forming a final like a string of pearls while not running aircraft together is a crappy controller. A controller who doesn't provide the best possible feed or sequence to the next controller is a crappy controller. There is no game-over, try and beat your previous score, working live traffic. PEOPLE DIE. Ask the Sarasota trainee who ran two together at the intersection of their runways what that's like.

The stories I could tell on here would keep all of you from ever flying again. But that's why it's a team sport. That's why we have to multitask, hearing everything around us, not just our little piece. Again, it goes to having just the right frame of mind, where you have absolute confidence, but are constantly checking and revising.

So they're trying to test for that aptitude as well. The colleges didn't. And a lot of people who graduated are trying to re-apply through that aptitude test, and failing that part. Might be a bad test, idk. Might be bad applicants.

Is Trump a nationalist or a Russian agent?

WaPo reporting that Trump went to great lengths to hide the specifics of conversations with Putin. Why would that be????

Quote: rsactuary

WaPo reporting that Trump went to great lengths to hide the specifics of conversations with Putin. Why would that be????

Because the crazies would run away with whatever was said, obviously.

Quote: RS

Is Trump a nationalist or a Russian agent?

*White* nationalist and Russian agent.

Quote: rsactuary

WaPo reporting that Trump went to great lengths to hide the specifics of conversations with Putin. Why would that be????

Please tell me this is a joke post!!!! Is someone actually asking why one world leader would want his private conversation with another world leader not made public? Sometimes it is just painful reading the anti - Trump posts. As I have said before, it is so easy to find Trump actions and tweets and the like that are easy pickings for criticism, but actually thinking he needs to expose specifics of his discussions with world leaders..... Do you think if he did so the world leaders might not be as willing to share thoughts with him in the future??????????? Help me !!!!!!!!

Quote: SOOPOO

Please tell me this is a joke post!!!! Is someone actually asking why one world leader would want his private conversation with another world leader not made public? Sometimes it is just painful reading the anti - Trump posts. As I have said before, it is so easy to find Trump actions and tweets and the like that are easy pickings for criticism, but actually thinking he needs to expose specifics of his discussions with world leaders..... Do you think if he did so the world leaders might not be as willing to share thoughts with him in the future??????????? Help me !!!!!!!!

President Obama clearly didn't want anyone to hear him telling Putin that he would have "more flexibility" after the election, which is why he said it quietly and it was accidentally caught on a microphone. He knew that he did not have to answer to the electorate any more--his last election was over. President Trump talks to people privately and he becomes a Russian agent. If you have actual proof that he is doing the bidding of Russia, and not simply trying to help the US (even if his policies are not good; I don't think President Obama was good at foreign policy, but I also don't think he was a foreign agent). Proof isn't "the NY Times says"...a "unknown source" says...or anything of that sort.

Except, well, it is now accepted as proof. There are no standards of proof required.

I don't like Trump's tweets. I understand "taking it to the people", but you can be less of an ass in doing so. Name calling and all that are childish.

I don't like everything Trump does. Around here, that just gets you called a "Trumper"...which is stupid, of course. The standard here is you must hate everything Trump does, even if it is something good. That is why many have left this conversation. It isn't really a conversation, it is an attack thread. Someone will take that the wrong way--they always do--and take it as complete support of Trump. Just so you know in advance, if you think that, you are full of crap...I'd say it in stronger terms, but you get the point.

If the Mueller probe or the myriad of investigations come up with anything, I'm all for prosecuting to the fullest extent allowed, dependent on the nature of the violation, up to and including removal from office and even trial in court. There is no doubt that there have been some shady characters around Trump. If that leads to him, or his family, so be it.

In the meantime, why not build some of the wall as many Dems have called for previous to him being President? Were those Dems racist when they proposed building a barrier? Barriers work. Using them with surveillance systems will help keep more bad guys out and slow human smuggling and enslavement. If you are not for better border security, are you them okay with human trafficking and drug smuggling?

I'd like to see comprehensive immigration reform that includes more bite than bark to make it less attractive to future illegal entry. Make overstaying a Visa a crime, not an administrative issue. Add enhancements to jail time for people who are deported for a crime and come back in. I'm open to ideas that help us keep allowing immigration while also keeping our borders intact.

Quote: SOOPOO

Please tell me this is a joke post!!!! Is someone actually asking why one world leader would want his private conversation with another world leader not made public? Sometimes it is just painful reading the anti - Trump posts. As I have said before, it is so easy to find Trump actions and tweets and the like that are easy pickings for criticism, but actually thinking he needs to expose specifics of his discussions with world leaders..... Do you think if he did so the world leaders might not be as willing to share thoughts with him in the future??????????? Help me !!!!!!!!

Evidently, you are aware of some inside joke. Presidents have aides and translators at such meetings, precisely to make a record of such meetings. Suppose Putin claims trump offered to pull out of Europe. Where is the US's ability to disprove it. The problem isn't with the public not knowing what was said, it's that his own administration doesn't know what was said. Trump personally took all the translators notes and has refused to let the translators talk to Congress or intelligence agencies.
That is not how Presidents operate. That's not how democracies operate. It's how dictators operate.
Why one set of rules for everyone else but a different one for Russia? The article doesn't it say trump goes to great lengths for any other leader, does it?

People who believe Trump actually said he will take the blame for the shutdown need to stop trying to shift any of the blame to Democrats. Not some, not a little, NONE.

That's how statements work. That a person will take the blame, means what it means.

Quote: SOOPOO

Please tell me this is a joke post!!!! Is someone actually asking why one world leader would want his private conversation with another world leader not made public? Sometimes it is just painful reading the anti - Trump posts. As I have said before, it is so easy to find Trump actions and tweets and the like that are easy pickings for criticism, but actually thinking he needs to expose specifics of his discussions with world leaders..... Do you think if he did so the world leaders might not be as willing to share thoughts with him in the future??????????? Help me !!!!!!!!

I don't think the point is that it was hidden from the public. The point is, it was hidden, as were 4 others, from the NSA advisor, Sec State was there for 1 of the 5 but missed the other 4, and no briefings were ever given THEM or others on what got said or any promises made.

There is no way for those whose jobs are to form and administer foreign policy to do their jobs if they don't know what Trump and Putin said. In those type meetings, with every President before Trump, and apparently in most other heads-of-state meetings Trump has had, there are records, there are principals in attendance, there is an attempt to coordinate strategy.

That's missing here. And it's not because of sloppy management of the meetings or those key people being unavailable. It's because Trump is personally being secretive and obstructive, hiding things from his own staff.

Quote: petroglyph

....I don't want the wall personally because it's ugly and interferes with animal migration,

https://returntonow.net/2019/01/10/trumps-wall-threatens-thousands-of-plant-and-animal-species-along-the-u-s-mexico-border/

Quote: petroglyph

https://returntonow.net/2019/01/10/trumps-wall-threatens-thousands-of-plant-and-animal-species-along-the-u-s-mexico-border/

Not many Lorax left.

Quote: Face

Not many Lorax left.

Our country doesn't seem to hold much reverence for wide open vista's anymore?

Even twenty years ago, it was easy to drive out into the desert and look in near any direction and not be looking at man made structures. Now it is hard to be in a place where there isn't an antenna farm on a high peak in all directions.

Doesn't seem like enough open scenery left in the country to shoot a western movie? This wall when built will be so horribly ugly, even from outer space. And, it won't stop human smuggling, and they know that. Both sides know there are sakkers digging tunnels as I type. So the whole argument isn't really about the ebb and flow of migrants. Like always, follow the money.

You can go over 60 miles up lake from Lake Powell and the smokestacks from SRP are blocking off the sun. I also objected to putting drilling rigs in sight of Yellowstone or along the canyon walls of Grand Canyon, ffs. Does everything have to look like a factory, or a prison?

add: https://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/energy/2019/01/07/navajo-nation-could-take-over-kayenta-mine-continue-coal-operations/2504735002/

Quote: TomG

No matter how well educated some people are they are just such complete assholes that they believe a person could be analogous to an STD simply because of where they were born

Given the quotes you referred to in this comment, it is clear this is a direct personal insult to the forum members quoted. This is also a violation of the rule against profanity. Five days.

On a pleasant note Canadian ATCs bought their US counterparts pizza.

CBC news

Though the story only covers Gander /Moncton buying for ZNY (Long Island), all ATCs;and most towers were on the act covering their adjacent ATCs and control towers. All of this was employee initiative and as not a NavCanada initiative. (NavCanada is the non-profit private company controlling all of Canadas air traffic space).

Quote: boymimbo

On a pleasant note Canadian ATCs bought their US counterparts pizza.

CBC news

Though the story only covers Gander /Moncton buying for ZNY (Long Island), all ATCs;and most towers were on the act covering their adjacent ATCs and control towers. All of this was employee initiative and as not a NavCanada initiative. (NavCanada is the non-profit private company controlling all of Canadas air traffic space).

My FB feed is filled with pix of Canadian pizza. Much appreciated by all!

Doing a little thinking on the wall problem and came to the conclusion that negotiating with North Korea is easier than trying to negotiate with Democrats. Pelosi has backed the Dem's into a corner with no outs.

#MAGA

Who was trump negotiating with before January 4th?

Quote: MaxPen

Doing a little thinking on the wall problem and came to the conclusion that negotiating with North Korea is easier than trying to negotiate with Democrats. Pelosi has backed the Dem's into a corner with no outs.

#MAGA

What did North Korea agree to?
If this wall is an emergency, Why didn't Trump build it when he became President 2 years ago
Why didn't he build it last year when he had both houses
He waits till The Dems take the House to demand a wall
What a dumb moron, cant even keep the govt open

Quote: terapined

What did North Korea agree to?
If this wall is an emergency, Why didn't Trump build it when he became President 2 years ago
Why didn't he build it last year when he had both houses
He waits till The Dems take the House to demand a wall
What a dumb moron, cant even keep the govt open

This STARTED under the previous Congress.

You're (jumping off here, ed, not talking about you) buying BS if you're putting it on Pelosi and the Dems. The Republicans were the ones who didn't support their President's surprise demand. The President didn't use the money he asked for this year for Border Security, which was appropriated.

Trump also went back on his word when the previous Senate passed a near-unanimous bill he said he would sign. God only knows why they need his pre-approval, but he gave it, they passed it, he said forget it.

So no, it's not the Dems who can't shoot straight.

Democrats are extending the shutdown to distract from the news about Bill Clinton hanging out with R Kelly in Chicago. Bill Clinton disgusts me.

Terapined hates
Bill Clinton and
Donald Trump
equally.

Quote: RogerKint

Terapined hates
Bill Clinton and
Donald Trump
equally.

What about Cosby? He did have some pretty funny shows though like the one with his family. The Huxtables, as some say.

Quote: MaxPen

Doing a little thinking on the wall problem and came to the conclusion that negotiating with North Korea is easier than trying to negotiate with Democrats. Pelosi has backed the Dem's into a corner with no outs.

#MAGA

Mexico is paying for the wall. No need to negotiate with the Dems.

Duh!

Quote: RogerKint

Terapined hates
Bill Clinton and
Donald Trump
equally.

Politics is meaningless to me when it comes to sexual assaulters.
I am against ALL sexual assaulters regardless of politics
I listened to all the Bill Clinton sexual assault accusers
I believe them, their stories have the ring of truth
I listened to all the Donald Trump sexual assault accusers
I believe them, their stories have the ring of truth

I judge politicians on their actions and what I would do in their position
I am a normal red blooded male that enjoys sex
Its very enjoyable when both participants are actively engaged
but
I find it disgusting to sexually assault a woman.
I would never ever sexually assault a woman. If she is not interested, its not going to be very fun anyway

Quote: terapined

Politics is meaningless to me when it comes to sexual assaulters.
I am against ALL sexual assaulters regardless of politics
I listened to all the Bill Clinton sexual assault accusers
I believe them, their stories have the ring of truth
I listened to all the Donald Trump sexual assault accusers
I believe them, their stories have the ring of truth

I judge politicians on their actions and what I would do in their position
I am a normal red blooded male that enjoys sex
Its very enjoyable when both participants are actively engaged
but
I find it disgusting to sexually assault a woman.
I would never ever sexually assault a woman. If she is not interested, its not going to be very fun anyway

Bruh... we get it. If any woman gets sexually assaulted you'll be the last person we suspect k?

Idk what's more weird, your sexual assault thing or Axel accusing everyone of being gay :)

Quote: RogerKint

Bruh... we get it. If any woman gets sexually assaulted you'll be the last person we suspect k?

Idk what's more weird, your sexual assault thing or Axel accusing everyone of being gay :)

We have to be reminded every 12 hours or else we might forget.

One only has to listen to President Trump speak and you realize how much he cares about this country and it’s legal citizens. The amount of hate he gets from the left has no justification in facts, only politics and the politics of hate. No clue why liberals hate this country so much and the principles it was built on.

Quote: Boz

One only has to listen to President Trump speak and you realize how much he cares about this country and it’s legal citizens. The amount of hate he gets from the left has no justification in facts, only politics and the politics of hate. No clue why liberals hate this country so much and the principles it was built on.

America should be outraged that the Dem party prefers our military remain illegally in a war that is illegal, rather than bring our troops home.

And then protest for open borders.

Insanity.

Interesting article contrasting Trump and Pelosi, and their parents.
I had no idea Nancy Ps father was a multi-term Congressman or that she is the first daughter of a former Congressman to serve.
Nor did I know that donnies father gave him a $10,000 a week allowance at 18 and it continued until his death when Donny was about 50.. The article claims Trumps father gave him upwards of 400 million dollars and constantly had to loan him money, including illegal chip purchases in AC casinos.

!950s clip abou a con man named trump who alone could save the town. By building a wall.
https://youtu.be/Gs6UcgiDwg0



Just a giant coincidence or prelude to Uncle Joes plan to conquer the USof A?
Many people are asking.

Quote: petroglyph

And then protest for open borders.

It's interesting to hear the GOP talk out of both sides of their mouths on this. On one hand, they say that Democrats want open borders so they get more votes. And then on the other hand, they say that Democrats supported the wall before Trump supported it.

Which is it?

Quote: Boz

One only has to listen to President Trump speak and you realize how much he cares about this country and it’s legal citizens.

Only the white ones....

I wish I were joking.

Quote: Boz

no justification in facts

It's Monday. I needed a chuckle.

Quote: Steverinos

It's interesting to hear the GOP talk out of both sides of their mouths on this. On one hand, they say that Democrats want open borders so they get more votes. And then on the other hand, they say that Democrats supported the wall before Trump supported it.

Which is it?

Both.

Quote: RS

Both.

lol

Quote: Steverinos

lol

Which do you think it is?

Quote: RS

Which do you think it is?

They are kind of mutually exclusive don't you think?

But to answer your question, Democrats were never in support of the wall idea as it was championed by Trump during the campaign. Democrats are for an above all approach. Barriers where it makes sense, technology where it makes sense, more border officers where it makes sense, etc.

But Democrats did in fact offer Trump his wall in exchange for DACA when Trump had control of the entire government and he said he wanted a "bill of love" for the dreamers. Now, after Democrats just won the House, he wants to shut down the government because he's not getting what he wants, when he COULD'VE HAD what he wanted? In a deal that actually would've EXPANDED his base? Yeah...makes tons of sense.

Let's not forget who killed the 2013 Gang of Eight bi-partisan immigration reform bill....House REPUBLICANS.

Quote: Boz

The amount of hate he gets from the left has no justification in facts, only politics and the politics of hate.

???????????
I read all of Trumps tweets. I follow him on twitter.
He is a lying insult machine.
Its insult after insult.
If he was a member on this board, he would be nuked.
Thats telling
Trump tweets hate and I hate him for that

Quote: Steverinos

It's interesting to hear the GOP talk out of both sides of their mouths on this. On one hand, they say that Democrats want open borders so they get more votes. And then on the other hand, they say that Democrats supported the wall before Trump supported it.

Which is it?

Democrats support turning illegal immigrants into citizens so they can get more votes. There are enough of them here already to tip the scales so no Republican will have a chance in a national election. More coming in just makes it easier down the road.
Whether Democrats support or don't support 'the wall' they definitely are happy from an electoral standpoint without one. They will not support it now, regardless of any facts involved, solely because Trump is for it. There are no set of facts, data, information, etc... that would override a Democrat's vote against the wall because Trump supports it.

Quote: SOOPOO

They will not support it now, regardless of any facts involved, solely because Trump is for it.

Exactly what advantage do Democrats get by supporting Trump's hostage taking tactics? More of the same later when he does it again.

Not interested.

This is weird, Republicans always tell me that Canadian healthcare is a travesty, on par with 3rd world countries.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rand-paul-to-have-surgery-in-canada-due-to-injuries-sustained-during-assault/

Quote: gamerfreak

This is weird, Republicans always tell me that Canadian healthcare is a travesty, on par with 3rd world countries.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rand-paul-to-have-surgery-in-canada-due-to-injuries-sustained-during-assault/

Shouldice is one of seven private hospitals grandfathered in and is still family owned.

Fascism appears to work for a time as it lives off the momentum created by free markets. Eventually, it fails.

The fact that Canada's air traffic is controlled privately was surprising.

Quote: RogerKint

Shouldice is one of seven private hospitals grandfathered in.

Fascism appears to work for a time as it lives off the momentum created by free markets. Eventually, it fails.

Directly from their website:
"Ontario’s Hospital Insurance Plan (OHIP) covers all costs to Ontario residents for public ward rate hospital accommodation and physician services."