Dyvan13
Dyvan13
Joined: May 27, 2016
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September 13th, 2017 at 1:04:16 PM permalink
Everybody says that they only engage in +EV play, but I doubt that is true.

What forms of gambling do you enjoy, despite it being -EV?

I like throwing down a few small sports bets (even though I'm bad at it) and playing small stakes Texas hold em with alcohol in my system.

$1 Craps at a crowded table is also quite fun, and dirt cheap if you just stick to pass/Don't pass with odds. You can play for hours on just $20-$30 (and get all that free booze)

I work full time so enjoying my time spent gambling is just as important as AP-ing. If I was concerned with making as much money as possible, I'd probably just pick up a 2nd job.
djatc
djatc
Joined: Jan 15, 2013
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September 13th, 2017 at 4:45:17 PM permalink
I think the first year I got into football I bet on the hawks most games, regardless of the line. Luckily it was the year they won the superbowl.
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
MrV
MrV
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
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Thanks for this post from:
onenickelmiracleOnceDear
September 13th, 2017 at 5:08:48 PM permalink
All my gambling is at -EV games: high limit slots and craps.

Sure, I hate to lose, and overall I do lose.

But not all the time.

Hey, it's stimulation, it's recreation, it's something I enjoy, and the best thing is I only risk losing money (something I have earned and saved quite a bit of over the years, so it's really no big deal).

I could have spent an equivalent amount on pursuing another hobby, but the hobbies that I'd want to take up would probably cause me to incur a risk I'd rather not undertake.

Sky diving / base jumping, car / boat racing, cheating on my wife: all would offer stimulation, but oh what a potential price I might have to pay when things go south, as they often do.

I don't mind tilting against windmills.
"What, me worry?"
gamerfreak
gamerfreak
Joined: Dec 28, 2014
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September 13th, 2017 at 5:42:01 PM permalink
Scratch off lottery tickets. I only get ones that are crosswords or bingo and take a while to scratch off, usually I'll spend 30 mins on one while watching TV. A $3 ticket with an EV of ~$1.50, that's cheap entertainment in my book.

I only do this maybe once a week. My last 2 tickets won $50.
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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onenickelmiracle
September 15th, 2017 at 7:08:22 AM permalink
When we go on trips and have bigger plays... We'll sometimes "relax" and throw some low limit craps and drink to have some fun. Also do the same with some VP, though I can't bring myself to play anything less than .25 because if I hit a $200 royal, I think I'd hate myself.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
ZenKinG
ZenKinG
Joined: May 3, 2016
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monet0412
September 16th, 2017 at 2:49:23 AM permalink
Quote: MrV

All my gambling is at -EV games: high limit slots and craps.

Sure, I hate to lose, and overall I do lose.

But not all the time.

Hey, it's stimulation, it's recreation, it's something I enjoy, and the best thing is I only risk losing money (something I have earned and saved quite a bit of over the years, so it's really no big deal).

I could have spent an equivalent amount on pursuing another hobby, but the hobbies that I'd want to take up would probably cause me to incur a risk I'd rather not undertake.

Sky diving / base jumping, car / boat racing, cheating on my wife: all would offer stimulation, but oh what a potential price I might have to pay when things go south, as they often do.

I don't mind tilting against windmills.



You're a degenerate. The funny thing is, you have constantly called me an idiot whether on this forum or another. How in the hell can you go and call me an idiot or something similar when you're just a degenerate losing all of his money? The fact of the matter is, you're the idiot. For every other AP on here knowingly playing a -EV game, you guys also have problems. You guys are one step closer to becoming a degenerate. Once you do that, you're not a winning player anymore, you're just a degenerate gambler looking for an excuse to get action in with things like "Well, it's just a hobby and i enjoy it, i would waste money doing other hobbies I enjoy" or "I just do it recreationally", but in the end those are just excuses you tell yourself so you can be a degenerate. Even if people AP more than they play -EV games, it doesn't matter, you now crossed the side from a winning player to a losing player and it's just a matter of time.

If I dont think I have an edge, I never touch any other game whatsoever, i just don't see the point in -ev gambling. I have no interest whatsoever. Even when I bet sports years back, i was trying to backtest algorithms and systems to see if long term I had an edge. I would think of a strategy and backtest it by going back in time and recording every game I saw to see if the theory indeed worked. Sure it's still a small sample size, but the principle was still there and it did well. The point is, no bet was placed until I really thought I had some type of edge. I do still think sports handicapping has potential and could be an AP move, but it just doesnt intrigue me enough to find out in the long run in case im wrong, so i just stopped with it.

Even when Im counting blackjack, i cringe every time i have to play heads up knowing im at a disadvantage off the top. If something is -EV, it just gives me no enjoyment or interest whatsoever. I think many on this forum have serious gambling problems.
Last edited by: ZenKinG on Sep 16, 2017
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." ----- Thomas Jefferson
monet0412
monet0412
Joined: Feb 18, 2016
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September 16th, 2017 at 4:08:54 AM permalink
I wouldn't say I have "Gambling Leaks" but I would say I make mistakes. I've made some clown mistakes with progressives. Playing too fast and making the wrong hold in VP. Other mistakes as well like thinking some girl is interested in me at 2 am in the Casino and forgetting they are all hookers. The mistake that really upsets me is when I miss my Free Play or forget about one of them or forget to go get a bunch of free food and let my comp coupons expire. The problem is when you start having over 10k in free play a month and a ton of comp you tend to make some mistakes... especially the older you get.

Quote: MrV

All my gambling is at -EV games: high limit slots and craps.

Sure, I hate to lose, and overall I do lose.

But not all the time.

Hey, it's stimulation, it's recreation, it's something I enjoy, and the best thing is I only risk losing money (something I have earned and saved quite a bit of over the years, so it's really no big deal).

I could have spent an equivalent amount on pursuing another hobby, but the hobbies that I'd want to take up would probably cause me to incur a risk I'd rather not undertake.

Sky diving / base jumping, car / boat racing, cheating on my wife: all would offer stimulation, but oh what a potential price I might have to pay when things go south, as they often do.

I don't mind tilting against windmills.



Not all the Time??? Gambling is one long session... it isn't I won today and lost yesterday so I'm a winner today. Your money... do what you want with it. I don't understand playing the bad game when the good game is right next door? I think you have to admit that a hobby is different compared to playing a losing game and giving an evil empire your dough. Sky Diving and the others aren't the same as losing money on plays where your supposed to lose. Cheating on your WIfe??? Completely different... come on!? Spending money on a hobby like flying remote control airplanes is not the same thing as falling into the dice pit or Reels with no way to win.

Quote: ZenKinG

You're a degenerate. The funny thing is, you have constantly called me an idiot whether on this forum or another. How in the hell can you go and call me an idiot or something similar when you're just a degenerate losing all of his money? The fact of the matter is, you're the idiot. For every other AP on here knowingly playing a -EV game, you guys also have problems. You guys are one step closer to becoming a degenerate. Once you do that, you're not a winning player anymore, you're just a degenerate gambler looking for an excuse to get action in with things like "Well, it's just a hobby and i enjoy it, i would waste money doing other hobbies I enjoy" or "I just do it recreationally", but in the end those are just excuses you tell yourself so you can be a degenerate. Even if people AP more than they play -EV games, it doesn't matter, you now crossed the side from a winning player to a losing player and it's just a matter of time.

If I dont think I have an edge, I never touch any other game whatsoever, i just don't see the point in -ev gambling. I have no interest whatsoever. Even when I bet sports years back, i was trying to backtest algorithms and systems to see if long term I had an edge. I would think of a strategy and backtest it by going back in time and recording every game I saw to see if the theory indeed worked. Sure it's still a small sample size, but the principle was still there and it did well. The point is, no bet was placed until I really thought I had some type of edge. I do still think sports handicapping has potential and could be an AP move, but it just doesnt intrigue me enough to find out in the long run in case im wrong, so i just stopped with it.

Even when Im counting blackjack, i cringe every time i have to play heads up knowing im at a disadvantage off the top. If something is -EV, it just gives me no enjoyment or interest whatsoever. I think many on this forum have serious gambling problems.



You actually make sense here. A little raw and upfront but still have to agree with you. There is a difference between an AP and a Gambler. Some APs are more disciplined than others is the point you are making here. I think you forgot that Mr V is on the side of the guys who wear 6000 dollar sweaters and 60,000 dollar watches... I however am not. As a matter of fact, I have stated that person deserves to get rolled if found strolling down the street (unprotected).
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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September 16th, 2017 at 6:01:05 AM permalink
If by 'leak' one means a deviation from perfect play then there are the usual 'socially mediated' events. The initial tie bet in Baccarat is a 'leak'. Later TIE bets are certainly a leak, but it is indeed such fun when it wins. The Don't Better who if explaining the game to a companion starts out with a bet on the Pass Line is deviating from his intended style of play but its only a few bucks and a few decimal places, The tip to the waitress is a 'leak' to some degree... a socially induced bet on a more prompt return visit and a stiffer drink made even more of a leak if she is a sweet young thing that is half naked.

I would rarely make a hard six bet but if six rolled three times in succession and each time came hard, you bet I'm going to develop a leak real fast. Its a negative expectation game overall but the essence of gambling is the belief that 'overall' won't happen because 'overall' is something that happens to the casino and to other players, but some deviation is going to happen to the gambler on that particular roll of the dice. The casino will have the law of large numbers but the gambler will have the very next number.

If a dealer performs a stellar service, a gambler who tips him is engaging in a 'leak' event but its probably wise to do so.

I don't do this constant CandE usually that everyone else does but sometimes you just go along.

I rarely play slots but occasionally its a temptation to just pause while passing by and drop in a few coins at a random machine on which you've not even read the placard and don't even know if its aliens, horses or reels or whatnot. Is it sensible? No. Is it strict adherence to your favorite gambling scheme of playing the percentages? No. But life is short, you are a bit soused and what the heck... why not.

Its similar to the poker play who usually plays a very tight game but who occasionally raises after announcing he has not even looked at his cards. Its a leak, but sometimes it pays off handsomely.

Making a decision at a craps table based on how lucky the shooter has been recently or how boisterous his behavior has been or how he was treating his girlfriend is a 'leak' but its just about as valid as just standing there and staying on the Don'ts all night long.
gamerfreak
gamerfreak
Joined: Dec 28, 2014
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September 16th, 2017 at 9:05:07 AM permalink
To dismiss gambling as a form of entertainment is a bit ridiculous. There's a huge difference between the degenerats grinding through -EV Blackjack hands at 4am like it's a chore, and someone shooting a bit of craps for fun.

News flash: there's plenty of recreational players who do so responsibly and are not addicts.
TomG
TomG
Joined: Sep 26, 2010
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Thanks for this post from:
RogerKint
September 16th, 2017 at 9:21:44 AM permalink
Quote: Dyvan13

I work full time so enjoying my time spent gambling is just as important as AP-ing. If I was concerned with making as much money as possible, I'd probably just pick up a 2nd job.



Playing casino games gives me so much more enjoyment than virtually anything else available in the workforce. Based on that, by only playing with a player edge and avoiding anything with a house edge is the by far the best way to get any enjoyment.

-----

Many days I'll play the GameKing blackjack games to run off any change on a ticket. Less than $50 per year in total action, or a loss of less than 1-cent per day. Once or twice per year I'll play up to $10 to show someone something about a game. A loss of less than $1 per year.

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Tipping is an expense that comes with being a customer. No more or less a leak than gas or groceries

-----

If I ever had a desire to play craps or roulette or -EV VP or blackjack, I would just get an app for my phone and play as much as I wanted without losing any money

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