Trump's Final 100 days
Quote: rxwineMy point was about mistaken assumptions.
Once in awhile, I'm almost absolutely positively certain of something and still turn out to be wrong. Not very often, but it happens.
I thought I was wrong once. Turned out I was mistaken.
Quote: FaceYou don't acquiesce to c#$%s. Someone wants to cry that it hurts their feelings, it's on them to toughen up.
Says the white man. Look Face, there are segments of society who need to be protected, including the old, sick and disabled, women, and minorities, who are consistently and systematically oppressed. I'm not saying that those who need to be protected can resort to violence to get their point across, but the government can be and have been equalizers through affirmative action, equal pay legislation, and ObamaCare. Medicare and Social Security are mandatory systems designed to protect the retired from themselves.
Quote: FaceSomeone wants to use it as a power source to fuel their evil, it's on civil folk to beat them down (figuratively, or whatever).
Actually, you hope that the law beats them down and that civil folk does it when they can't. Ain't that what the 2nd amendment is for?
Quote: FaceAnd it damn sure ain't Trump's fault. A man that simple cannot have that much effect alone.
Leaders are role models and they certainly are emboldened by the Executive branch and the parties in power unwilling to speak out against it (except lip service). Nonetheless your leader should represent roughly what is the best of America, or a close facsimile of. White Supremacy is not in America's interests and never will be.
Quote: FaceIt's bloody insane. If you want to rid the world of anything that can be taken negatively, prepare to have nothing. Andrew Jackson was a bastard, still gotta look at his face any time you make a purchase. Washington owned slaves. The "Great Emancipator" was also quite the son of a bitch himself. I don't suspect even Billryan knows of the atrocities committed by everyone's favorite Republican. Columbus? A tyrant.
As I said, the statues and the symbols are not the problem. It's the people who flock to Stone Mountain as a symbol for their beliefs. You could be sure that Jackson would not be on the $20 if he was likened to a racist homophobe. We choose our heroes and villains based on the entire history at the context of the time. Personally, I have no problems with Confederate symbols being in place provided that they don't become lightning rods for racism, Naziism and bigotry. The problem is that it has.
The context of history changes with the times. You cherish Columbus because you learned it in elementary school. If they start teaching that Columbus didn't discover America (it was likely Cabot - Columbus discovered the Caribbean) - John Smith was responsible for the British Colonization of Virginia, then someone else will become that hero. As social issues perk into history, heroes will change into villains and those who are now unknown will turn into heroes.
Quote: billryanSt Brendan discovered America. Columbus followed his maps but latitude hadn't been invented yet.
A lot of historians would absolutely disagree with your statement
Quote: boymimboSays the white man. Look Face, there are segments of society who need to be protected, including the old, sick and disabled, women, and minorities, who are consistently and systematically oppressed..
One of the fears of white supremacists and others seems to be fear of ending up as a powerless minority. The whole idea of minority protections is to protect a minority from the disenfranchisement of human rights from the majority. You shouldn't have to fear anything as a minority -- that's the whole idea of the idea.
Massive birth rates or fighting to reduce the other's population seems like a lot worse idea than strong protections for any minority. So, for whatever its problems, I'm always going with the latter.
Quote: rxwineOne of the fears of white supremacists and others seems to be fear of ending up as a powerless minority. The whole idea of minority protections is to protect a minority from the disenfranchisement of human rights from the majority. You shouldn't have to fear anything as a minority -- that's the whole idea of the idea.
Massive birth rates or fighting to reduce the other's population seems like a lot worse idea than strong protections for any minority. So, for whatever its problems, I'm always going with the latter.
To be fair, what they are feeling is a constant denigration of the enormous privilege that they (we) have.
- Jobs that they don't want anyway are being given to immigrants who are not white-skinned.
- Immigration in general and their communities changing (Americans are not replacing their own population at a rate, requiring immigration for growth)
- Affirmative action college placements (Standardized testing is unfair)
- Preferred hiring of women and minorities into jobs that exist (they are underrepresented today)
- Loss of local jobs due to globalization, competition, and other market forces (led by the US leading to greater exports, job growth, and lower prices)
- Changes of society leading to isolationism and feeling left behind (due to all of the above)
- Crime being seen overly perpetrated by minorities (sterotyping)
- General fear-mongering by right-winged media and validated by the WhiteHouse (back on topic)
I understand the anger but it is based, in my opinion, in myopic ignorance.
Quote: HomelessnycA lot of historians would absolutely disagree with your statement
Lame stream historians .
Quote: boymimboSays the white man.
Says the {possible rules violation}
Quote: billryanJust signed up for this, seems way too good to be true.
$9.95 a month for one movie a day.
Just like Obamacare, seems way too good to be true. But even Obama knew that.
Always looking for the edge Billy, congratulations!
Quote: billryanColumbus died 250 years before our country was born and never even set foot in North America. Kind of ignorant to include him with our founding fathers.
I wasn't making a comprehensive list of fathers, rather pointing out that the people we deify have committed horrors on par with those we vilify.
Quote: boymimboSays the white man. Look Face, there are segments of society who need to be protected, including the old, sick and disabled, women, and minorities, who are consistently and systematically oppressed.
A fair accusation of race, but you must understand that because of my half breed, I can easily see another side. It's just as I pointed out to Romes' post, the very things he says apply directly to me, yet, I assume, they're not directed to me at all. What I'm trying to show is that I understand what it's like to have a perception of reality that is in the minority. With all of my anti .gov posts, I would have thought it was obvious. But all the rah-rah about them being the enemy, the loser, pack your s#$% and leave... I empathize with that side.
Before I say anything else, let me be specific in that I am talking purely about the preservation of monuments, which I know you're sort of for. I'm not in any way saying "Oh, hey. Nazis. Cool." Just wanted to put that out there because people trigger easy these days. Anyway...
You simply don't erase history. Look at this... all you (generic you) knuckleheads that want this stuff gone... look at what's happening now. You have a bunch of hateful people emboldened into self identifying. Those you consider "trouble", now you know exactly who they are. You have shown a wave of opposition. Is racism at the tipping point? It's always clamored to be, yet look. LOOK! at the positive outpouring, the people standing up and saying "That's not me", the people stepping forth and saying "Not on my watch". How many hits are coming to Google about Lee? How many people are learning history, learning truth, getting educated, and adjusting themselves based on the knowledge?
How much memory can you afford? How many experiences can you as a person lose before you are no longer "you"? Isn't the memory of touching a hot stove, though a bad thing, a damn good memory to have? A useful memory, one with value and power?
When you got pigeons in the silo, you don't knock down the silo.
Quote: BozDidn't want to post this in the original thread at the risk of taking it off topic but I had to laugh at the irony of this one.
Just like Obamacare, seems way too good to be true. But even Obama knew that.
Always looking for the edge Billy, congratulations!
Why do I get the feeling you never budget your money and scratch your head at the end of the month wondering where it went?
Stop at a stop light in your 2003 Buick, see a guy in a Lexus and think he's a tax cheat or a drug dealer.
Some folks are sheep. Some folks like eating mutton.
Please don't. Anyone who cares not to read it can block it.Quote: IbeatyouracesPlease lock this thread. It has nothing to do with gambling, casinos or Vegas and will only cause chaos. PLEASE LOCK IT!!
Quote: IbeatyouracesPlease lock this thread. It has nothing to do with gambling, casinos or Vegas and will only cause chaos. PLEASE LOCK IT!!
I disagree. We should keep it open for the 100 days. Then when the world is still alive and kicking and Trump is still president we lock it and ban the op for 100 days
Quote: OnceDearPlease don't. Anyone who cares not to read it can block it.
Bull$h!t!!! Take this garbage to over to Diversity Tomorrow. It doesn't belong here.
Quote: IbeatyouracesPlease lock this thread. It has nothing to do with gambling, casinos or Vegas and will only cause chaos. PLEASE LOCK IT!!
Hence the reason it's in "Off Topic".
Quote: IbeatyouracesBull$h!t!!! Take this garbage to over to Diversity Tomorrow. It doesn't belong here.
Who made you Queen for the Day?
From someone who gets labeled a righty for his view on things like the gender pay gap myth and modern feminism, and a liberal for his views on things like healthcare and of course weed.
Quote: IbeatyouracesPlease lock this thread. It has nothing to do with gambling, casinos or Vegas and will only cause chaos. PLEASE LOCK IT!!
Why does it need to be locked? For the most part, this thread as well as the First 100 days thread stayed pretty civil. There's been a few personal sparring matches, but mostly just people discussing/challenging politics.
I've heard a whole lot of people on the right use the word snowflake for someone who is uncomfortable with the fact that opposing opinions exist in the world. If that's the case for anyone, the block button is there for them.
Zero Hedge
Crowds on Demand posted this add 10 days ago:
“Actors and Photographers wanted in Charlotte”
Who is funding these protests?
Quote: TankoA lot of those protestors on both sides are going to be pissed when they find out others were getting paid $25 per hour while they were getting their heads busted for free.
Zero Hedge
Crowds on Demand posted this add 10 days ago:
“Actors and Photographers wanted in Charlotte”
Who is funding these protests?
Wrong city, wrong state. Charlotte North Carolina is 250 miles away from Charlottesville, Virginia.
A for imagination, D for execution.
Quote: Maverick17Says the {possible rules violation}
I know Face is a white guy.
Quote: billryanQuote: TankoA lot of those protestors on both sides are going to be pissed when they find out others were getting paid $25 per hour while they were getting their heads busted for free.
Zero Hedge
Crowds on Demand posted this add 10 days ago:
“Actors and Photographers wanted in Charlotte”
Who is funding these protests?
Wrong city, wrong state. Charlotte North Carolina is 250 miles away from Charlottesville, Virginia.
A for imagination, D for execution.
The CL ad, from what I can tell, is basically fishing for people to do protests & rallies for pay. It looks like they do other things -- whatever flash mob, corporate PR stunts, and celebrity scenes are. I'm sure we all know Charlotsville, VA is not the only place where a protest has happened or will happen.
Perhaps thinks is too strong a word.
“A few isolated groups in the backwater of American life still hold perverted notions of what America is all about,” he said in a clip going viral. “Recently in some places in the nation there’s been a disturbing reoccurrence of bigotry and violence.”
Then, Reagan sent a direct message to those “who still adhere to senseless racism and religious prejudice.”
“You are the ones who are out of step with our society. You are the ones who willfully violate the meaning of the dream that is America. And this country, because of what it stands for, will not stand for your conduct.”
“My administration will vigorously investigate and prosecute those who, by violence or intimidation, would attempt to deny Americans their constitutional rights,” he promised.
Trump has also been invited to speak to the NAACP, but refused the offer.
https://youtu.be/lbMvHa3bWDQ?t=2
Quote: billryanAre Kelly and McMaster in Jersey or is the manchild home alone? Does anyone know where that Fire and Fury line comes from?
Deleted.
Not sure I trust the source.
Quote: billryanFormer President Ronald Reagan spoke to the NAACP’s annual convention in 1981 when he was commander in chief, and his comments stand in sharp contrast to Trump’s tepid response to racist violence.
“A few isolated groups in the backwater of American life still hold perverted notions of what America is all about,” he said in a clip going viral. “Recently in some places in the nation there’s been a disturbing reoccurrence of bigotry and violence.”
Then, Reagan sent a direct message to those “who still adhere to senseless racism and religious prejudice.”
“You are the ones who are out of step with our society. You are the ones who willfully violate the meaning of the dream that is America. And this country, because of what it stands for, will not stand for your conduct.”
“My administration will vigorously investigate and prosecute those who, by violence or intimidation, would attempt to deny Americans their constitutional rights,” he promised.
Trump has also been invited to speak to the NAACP, but refused the offer.
https://youtu.be/lbMvHa3bWDQ?t=2
Now there's a speech that teamtrump should have plagiarized !
Quote: RSThe CL ad, from what I can tell, is basically fishing for people to do protests & rallies for pay.
There is nothing wrong with that, but this time three people died and dozens were injured.
Protestors on both sides were bussed in to Charlottesville.
The possibility that even a few protestors on either side could have been hired by COD or another organization to cause a riot should be investigated.
Scott Foval, National field Director for Americans United for Change
'We have mentally ill people that we pay to do s#%t. Over the past twenty years, I've paid homeless guys to do stuff..."
"But the reality is, a lot of people, especially our union guys, a lot of union guys, they'll do whatever you want."
"When I need to get something done in Arkansas, the first guy I call is the head of the AFL-CIO down there...."I will say, need a guy who will do this, and they find that guy."
"When asked if the company would provide actors for protests against hate groups, Swart did not give a direct answer, but he did say they do not put actors into situations that might prove dangerous for them." Snopes
What would Trump's view be on WW2? "Well, the Nazis who are exterminating Jews are on one side, and the people protecting them are on another, so there are two sides here?"
Put it this way. If it was a pro-Islamic rally with thousands of Muslims with Tiki torches, weapons and protective armor chanting "Death to America" and standing armed across from a synagogue, would it be allowed? Would Trump had said there were two sides then? Not in a million years.
Those are morally incomprehensible positions to hold. And Trump appears to hold them. That's why pretty much everyone except for the far-right has spoken out against him.
Trump is wrong. He is right on some things, but in this case, he is wrong.
Quote: IbeatyouracesPlease lock this thread. It has nothing to do with gambling, casinos or Vegas and will only cause chaos. PLEASE LOCK IT!!
That's pretty selfish
You are asking for censorship
when
You can simply block the thread
The most "presidential" and humane thing trump could have done was to order the national guard and american armies that there was domestic terrorists in Charlotesville and that they need to go kill all of them. This is nothing more than the continuation of the unsurrendering solders from the Civil War, and WWII... and if they are unsurrendering to their ideas of hate, intolerance, and violence, then they should be destroyed with the rest of them.
Here's a better way of thinking about it... What would you do, or be okay with, if 500 members of ISIS and the Talaban gathered around that statue in Charlotesville?? Would you SHUN those who attacked them? Would you SHUN those who killed them? F*CK NO. Their evil and hate must be destroyed. SAME SH*T WITH NAZI'S.
- Counter-protesters had permit. Charlottesville Director of Communications reports that permit wasn't required anyway.
- Trump calls removal of statues sad: a change in culture and history. He's right when he says: "you can't change history, but you can learn from it." What did he learn?
Trump is still President and isn't going anywhere
Time to seriously consider a censure.
That's your solution? You want the American military to go murder a bunch of Americans on American soil?Quote: RomesThe most "presidential" and humane thing trump could have done was to order the national guard and american armies that there was domestic terrorists in Charlotesville and that they need to go kill all of them.
You must be with the all inclusive party. Stay away from the kool aid.
Quote: boymimboI know Face is a white guy.
I see you're transitioning into being a Californian nicely; you've already got the "insufferable" part of being a liberal down pat! XD
No, but really, for an admitted Christian from the Party of Compassion, your informing of my adoption was cold as ice.
OK, OK, no more jokes. You do have a point, mimbo, in that I probably don't understand the real issue. I won't deny it. You can check the demo's from my town all the way to the PA border and you'll find one outlier that is 96% white. All the rest are 98% and above. Point made. I'm not around black folk, and I doubt the fact that my only friend at work is black makes a mote of difference.
I'm just trying to add something here based on my experiences. Like, take your post for example. We've had a long history and I've considered you a friend throughout it. As such, I didn't take your comment as an attempt at offense. Was it? I mean, I suppose you have something in your head, some sort of list of criteria, where you define what someone is or isn't. What makes you state "Face is a white man"? Is it my looks? Skin tone? Bone structure? Vernacular? Governmental decree? Genealogical criteria?
I don't know what it is, but I'm reasonably certain it's not based on something f#$%ed up or based on hate. It's likely something you don't even think about, something that's holds little to no importance to you. But I'll tell ya, despite its "no value" status in your head, that f#$%ing hurt. Not because you're a friend and took a shot, not because being any specific race is a bad thing, but simply because I have been marginalized and dehumanized by those very words my entire life. The phrase "He's not (insert race)" has been used to tear me down since I was old enough to walk, and there have been too many fists and feet riding in their wake. I'm not ashamed to admit there's a few tears trying to well, remembering the 8-10yr old boy that I was get excited as a mf'er seeing kids coming to the park, only to be beaten and spit in the face by all 6 of them because I "Wasn't (insert race)".
Are you going to change based on this knowledge? Could you, even if you wanted to? I dunno, but I do know one thing - I cannot change you myself. And really, is changing you anything I should even wish for?
I dunno. I'd like to say my racial ignorance and halfbreed status might have me skewed on this, but I think the truth is I'm just no good at this subject, so I'll shut up. But hey, if that white man card gets me rebates on all the beatings, you know where to find me.
Oh, you mean like they did in the Civil War? ...with the exact same types of people?Quote: petroglyphThat's your solution? You want the American military to go murder a bunch of Americans on American soil?
You must be with the all inclusive party. Stay away from the kool aid.
Quote: FaceI see you're transitioning into being a Californian nicely; you've already got the "insufferable" part of being a liberal down pat! XD
No, but really, for an admitted Christian from the Party of Compassion, your informing of my adoption was cold as ice.
If anything, my move to California has made me more conservative.
There was no offense intended, Face and I apologize if you are a "half-breed", whatever that means (I assuming that half-breed means you are half-indian). What I am saying is that each person has their own perspectives that can be myopic in nature, including my own. "LibTards" who go to Unversity get a variety of perspectives and views tend to be more compassionate to other ethnicities and races because they encounter them in University and/or take courses that do that.
As a half-breed who got beaten as a kid, you had choices on how to deal with it and dealt with the prejudice in your own way. Some people get more proud of their heritage - other people bury it. As one gets older, you take into account your experiences and own conclusions and gravitate to news sources and ideals that match your own, which pushes people into more extreme views as they get older (liberal or conservative).
I felt however, Face, that your views did not into account other people's perspectives, like the Jews persecuted in WW2 or blacks being persecuted, or heck, Native Americans being wiped off the map. So, your vernacular.
With regards to the statues, I will say, let them remain. They are symbols of history as things we can learn from. But because they became symbols to white supremacists and Nazi-sympathizers, I can see why towns and cities want them removed. Some groups are just pacifist by nature and don't resort to fighting. Some groups are not strong enough to fight. These are the groups that need protection by the law, in this country anyway.
Quote: boymimbo
Trump is still President and isn't going anywhere
The author of Trumps "Art of the Deal" doesn't seem to hold that point of view.
Trump Is Going to Resign Soon, President's 'Art of the Deal' Writer Predicts
His tweets from Wednesday are kind of interesting;
Quote:Every tweet Schwartz sent Wednesday was about Trump. "Think of Trump as a toddler w/reactive attachment disorder, and therefore in a permanent virulent tantrum. His development ended at age 7," he posted. He later added, "Remember that every time Trump criticizes and demeans someone he is projecting his deep sense of inadequacy & self-hatred onto others."
<shock>That doesn't sound very presidential at all </shock>.
Quote: boymimbo
With regards to the statues, I will say, let them remain. They are symbols of history as things we can learn from. But because they became symbols to white supremacists and Nazi-sympathizers, I can see why towns and cities want them removed. Some groups are just pacifist by nature and don't resort to fighting. Some groups are not strong enough to fight. These are the groups that need protection by the law, in this country anyway.
I think there will be a broader support if they move most of them to museums.
And to me, if that is done, the cries of rewriting history rings hollow.
Just for the record, I collect statues. Among the hundred or so that I have, three are Confederates. I have one of Robert Lee, one of Stonewall Jackson and one that is a group setting - Lee, Jackson and Jeb Stuart, on South Mountain looking down at Maryland as they invade it in 1862.
I admire Lee and Jackson for being superior military men, just as I admire Rommel. But the fact is they fought on the side of evil. Not every Confederate was evil, nor was every member of the German Army evil, but their cause was., and had they won evil would have triumphed.
I had a great statue that my dog knocked over a few years ago. Went back to the shop in Gettysburg to replace it but they wanted $3200 for it as they only had a few left. When I bought it, it was $495, but I had a 20% coupon and the shop doesn't charge veterans sales tax.
It was of General Longstreet handing General Pickett the order to send his command into the line at Gettysburg. An order that Longstreet knew was doomed and akin to suicide. Hours later , after what became known as Pickett's Charge ended in horrible defeat, Lee came across Pickett, wandering and dazed.
"General Pickett," Lee said , ' You must see to your Division". Picket looked up and simply said " General Lee, Sir, I have no Division"
https://youtu.be/rGv1VKAybcI?t=22
Quote: billryanMany , I collect statues. Among the hundred or so that I have, three are Confederates. I have one of Robert Lee, one of Stonewall Jackson and one that is a group setting -
Here's a small one.
Most of mine are in the 15-24 inch range, although I have a set of six Union Infantry in storage that are 36 to 40 inches tall. Just need a driveway to properly display them.
Quote: boymimboWhat is your point, Tanko? That the president's words were spot on? That anti-bigotry and anti-racist are just as normative values as racism and bigotry and that the balance is in the middle (some bigotry and some racism) as Trump alluded to? That bigotry and white supremacy should be given a free pass because there were people there against those values at the rally as Trump alluded to? That people shouting Sig Heil and carrying an Nazi flag while passing a synagogue should be a first amendment right to be supported for by one's president.
I have not mentioned anything concerning Trump in nearly two weeks.
My post only questioned whether there were paid agitators at the rally.
I have never mentioned the views of the opposing sides.
My only reference to them was to their history of violence, and one side carried firearms.
I criticized the police and the governor, as did the ACLU, for not intervening and preventing death and bloodshed.
I criticized the governor for talking about healthcare and education less than one day after Heather Heyer was murdered.
From that, you wonder whether I am trying to make a point that Trump’s words were spot on and bigotry and white supremacy should be given a free pass, and people shouting sh and carrying a nutzi flag while passing a synagogue have a first amendment right supported by the president.
Quote: TankoI have not mentioned anything concerning Trump in nearly two weeks.
My post only questioned whether there were paid agitators at the rally.
I have never mentioned the views of the opposing sides.
My only reference to them was to their history of violence, and one side carried firearms.
I criticized the police and the governor, as did the ACLU, for not intervening and preventing death and bloodshed.
I criticized the governor for talking about healthcare and education less than one day after Heather Heyer was murdered.
From that, you wonder whether I am trying to make a point that Trump’s words were spot on and bigotry and white supremacy should be given a free pass, and people shouting sh and carrying a nutzi flag while passing a synagogue have a first amendment right supported by the president.
*Trump literally condemns Nazis and white supremacists.*
Liberals: "He had a meltdown and supports Nazis and white supremacists."
It's right out of their playbook. You can't make this %#$& up!
